I felt led to offer a comment. As an aspiring devotee, I came to Krishna consciousness as a vegan. I became vegetarian over 30 yrs ago when I realized as a young man the cruelty inherent in the raising and slaughter of animals. A few years later, I felt a need to find a spiritual understanding and discovered meditation, finally living in Buddhist monasteries in Asia for a few years. One lingering contradiction was that meat dishes were “on the menu” there and while I chose only vegetarian offerings, others found no problem with eating meat.

Upon returning to the USA, I became aware of the abuse in the treatment and slaughtering of dairy cows and stopped buying commercial dairy milk, since there was no ahimsa alternative. Ten years later I find Srila Prabhupada’s books and over a two yr period, I have been chanting and aspire to become an initiated devotee.

The devotees here have been so incredibly kind to me, sometimes even setting aside dishes without milk or butter, or at least informing me of non-vegan items.

My wife and son do consume dairy and I always bring them all the prasadam. I also purchase pasture-raised milk since they desire it, instead of the cheaper commercial milk.
I have done MUCH soul-searching in the last 2 yrs over this subject. I don’t plan on boycotting cow abuse much longer… My sincere desire is to have a small farm in a devotee community, maintaining some cows properly and living off the land as much as possible. We are saving and planning for this, hopefully by 2015. I am 51 yrs old, so it would be a semi-retired life for us. Then I will be a Krishna-terian in the true sense of the word, neither vegetarian nor vegan.

Vegan is only the latest step towards surrendering more fully to Lord Krishna. It is the best I can do at this moment, in this place. I don’t encourage devotees to give up dairy but ask them to pray that I may one day soon serve them in this manner, with ahimsa milk where there is none available to devotees in the city now.

Please pray for me, prabhus.

Haribol! - Bhakta David

May I please start off by saying that at Bhaktivedanta manor we are easily 70% self sufficient and operate the Temple model of ISKCON, the community and agricultural model too. Because we are practicing devotional service then this actually transcends the three gunas so our service to the Lord and go-mata is actually transcendental. Also for the Manor Srila Prabhupada wanted a bus to collect western people from London to come to the temple, and see the cows and how we take care of them so we could then teach them about varnasrama and cow protection.

Unfortunately there is no such thing as minimum-violence for milk outside of ISKCON temples unless you live in India and even that now is becoming harder and harder unless you have your own cow. So I disagree with you not to promote ahimsa milk as more and more devotees in ISKCON want cruelty free milk which most rural temples cannot supply to them on a larger scale. ISKCON is a massive society now and has far more devotees then in Srila Prabhupada`s time and the demand for cruelty free milk is there and quite rightly so as of the horrors that go on within the dairy industry, which I don’t know if you are or aware of or not?

The whole point of this topic is to try and start to set in place the dynamics to produce milk for devotees in the way that Srila Prabhupada mandates.

If I am being totally honest with you prabhu I find your closing remarks about the mode of goodness lifestyle and the real conclusive practice of cow protection condescending as we are the biggest cow protection goshalla in Europe as well as the goshalla in Hungary. If you haven’t grown up in India with a family cow then can I please also ask you prabhu if you have actually ever done any go-seva?
Yours in the service of go-mata,
bhakta matty

It’s very interesting that none of the vegans to whom you mentioned above or anymore of them for that matter have actually posted any reply at all on this topic. Also it’s a wonder to me whether or not these devotees were vegan before they joined ISKCON? Which IS NOT and never has been a society of vegans or endorsed vegan principles. As we all know Srila Prabhupada never endorsed even a macrobiotic diet unless of course it was for health reasons and this is also true for those devotees who were/are lactose-intolerant. I also agree that ahimsa mrdanga production should also be observed and promoted within ISKCON otherwise we are compromising our beliefs on go-raksya.

What is needed is for more like minded devotees to come together and promote go-raksya and help to implement the changes that we want to see as regards ahimsa and cruelty free milk. Saying that, I know of some initiated vegan devotees in ISKCON who won’t even drink ahimsa milk. In my opinion such devotees can be without a doubt labeled as fanatical. We as vaisnavas have to please Krsna who loves milk and especially that creamy makhan butter and give him what He wants and not abide by our own false ego whimsey.

In India of course it is easier to keep a cow and have fresh milk to offer to Lord Krsna. The trouble is that here in western countries unfortunately people have no concept of what a real civilized society involves in terms of the vedic injunction of varnasrama. You have to realize that the word culture to 80% if not more of the western population, is football, MC-Donald’s burgers, alcohol and boy chasing girl and visa-verse. Ahimsa dairies and goshallas where people can have contact with gentle go-mata can only be a good thing on many different levels.

At least let us push forward ahimsa dairy production in ISKCON as we are a high thinking and simple living society we are the ones who should be pioneering such activities primarily for our beloved go-mata and of course for those vegan and non-vegan devotee’s who want to buy cruelty free milk as there is such a big demand for it within the devotee community. Lets face it that most farming community temples who keep cows have no surplus milk to sell to devotees so ahimsa makes complete ethical and common sense.

Ys bhakta matty

I absolutely agree with everything you say above except for maybe one point. My point is that to act with integrity then ultimately ISKCON devotees should stop being vegans unless it is for health reasons. All the reasons for this are in my above posts.

Your servant bhakta matty.

1.
Actually I was thinking the same, some time ago. But my thoughts was, that it will work in the beginning if such organisation will be not local, little bit more regional. Because amount of milk, from succesfull small milk farm is quite a big. Off course one should find a farm, who produce not only milk, but milk products also. Yes.
2.
Yes, thats the point - i know good vegans, who fight for this principle - and because of complete unanderstanding of theyr position and complexity of this question - they have a not pleasant days in ISKCON.
For example: its the same, with mrdangas. A Call for boycotting clay mrdangas - it can be ridiculated like a some false ideology, but reality under this call is mass animal/cow slaughtering for skin, for mrdangas. Off course - there are Ahimsa mrdanga production or plastic mrdanga production - but to change habits its not so easy, and therefore indian clay mrdanga business is going on, and animal slaughtering for that also…

ys
Nataraja dasa

What is needed is a change in the model of milk production. ISKCON devotees should not support an industry that is hell bent on exploitation of cows for profit. It should only support ahimsa dairy farms and work towards the ideal that Srila Prabhupada wanted. As long as devotees continue supporting an exploitive system, the motivation to develop ahimsa dairy projects (inside and outside of ISKCON) will not be there, and neither will the current business model change.

“So unless one becomes responsible householder, how he’ll execute his responsibility? If he thinks, “Oh, what is the use of keeping a cow when the milk is available in the market? Oh, sex life is so cheap. Why shall I take the responsibility of marrying?” This is going on.” - CC Adi 7 - 107-109 15/2/67 San Francisco

I think the solution is to form a cooperative of ahimsa milk buyers and approach the organic dairies with a proposal to adopt cows so they they are never sent to slaughter. Remember, this is all about business. We have to think in terms of what makes sense for business. The farmers, especially the organic dairy farms must have some respect for the cows, so it is a matter of forming a powerful alliance of consumers and proposing to them a new model for business. This initiative should be headed by organizations like ISKCON. It is a step in the right direction. ISKCON needs to see the solution from a broader perspective. SP didn’t expect that ISKCON would have all the solutions, and therefore he was always very keen to cooperate with others, as long as principles were not compromised. For me at least, for ISKCON to continue purchasing poor quality commercial dairy is a huge compromise of their principles.

Srila Prabhupada said: So I shall speak in the evening. [break] Krsna has give so many nice preparations. From milk… Therefore cow protection is very essential. [break] Go-raksya vanijyam [Bg. 18.44]. Go-raksya. Because from cow’s milk we can get all vitamins, protein. That… These people, they are eating the flesh of cow, these Western people. But they do not know how to utilize milk. Now they are learning. We have opened many farms. So when they eat so many varieties of preparations from milk, especially from curd, casein, channa, they are surprised.

Room Conversation. January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara.

Myself and two other dedicated goshala devotees had a discussion on Sunday of the last week of 2012 and after much soul searching we worked out that there are more than enough ways that we can engage our ISKCON oxen in meaningful work and at the same time generate enough of an income to maintain a grihasta family. Once we have tried and tested our ideas we will then present our working strategies to ISKCON GBC.

Please note that these are MY views and in no way rep-present Bhaktivedanta manor or Bhaktivedanta manor goshala.To those devotees who I offended. May I please ask for your forgiveness and mercy
Yours in the service of Guru, Gauranga and Go-mata, bhakta matty

Srila Prabhupada deemed that the best approach was powerful preaching of Krishna consciousness through literature and other media as well as demonstrating cow protection in rural farm communities. He said:
Just like we say “Don’t eat meat.” So actually, if all people become Krsna conscious and give up meat-eating, then the slaughterhouse will be closed. Automatically. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, June 20, 1972)
Less intelligent people underestimate the value of cow’s milk. Cow’s milk is also called gorasa, or the juice from the body of the cow. Milk is the most valuable form of gorasa, and from milk we can prepare many important and valuable foodstuffs for the upkeep of the human body. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Hawaii, January 15, 1974)
OK so we all know that vegans are basically vegetarians that don`t partake of any dairy products.
So what about our father? The oxen who works hard all day in the fields ploughing and doing so much heavy and hard farm work so that we may have nice sufficient grains and vegetables to eat.

So here is the message to all vegans within Srila Prabhupada`s ISKCON.
While you are eating your rice, vegetables. bread. chapatis etc on your vegan diet,
Srila Prabhupda also stated. “That the tractor was the killer of the bull/oxen.” So since all our modern day agriculture relies so heavy on use of the tractor to produce vegetables and grans then I can only assume that you will negate these eatables from your diet too? As you are indirectly killing the oxen.

If you love go-mata so much then please hold this point about are dear farther the oxen in your mind and heart the next time you put that chapati, filled with dal, rice and subji into your mouth. And then ask yourselves. “Can I do more practical hands-on service for go-raksya?”
Because, it is obvious that you feel so strongly about cow protection by you action of becoming a vegan in first place.

Myself and two other dedicated goshala devotees had a discussion on Sunday of last week 2012 and after much soul searching we worked out that there are more than enough ways that we can engage our ISKCON oxen in meaningful work and at the same time generate enough of an income to maintain a grihasta family…to be continued…

It is most significant that to counteract cow slaughter Srila Prabhupada never refrained from using commercial dairy products for offering to the Lord, for his personal consumption nor for the eating of his movements’ followers. He decided to “make the best use of a bad bargain” by using commercial dairy products on the basis. Viñäd apy amåtaà grähyam amedhyäd api käïcanam (take the nectar from the pot of poison or take gold from a filthy place). He appealed to the intelligence of his audience but in order for them to understand his subtle spiritual message, they would require fine brain tissues—rejecting commercial dairy products was not possible. Srila Prabhupada wanted to create intelligent persons who could understand the philosophy of Krishna consciousness and convince others by logic and reason. In the vegetarian diet, milk plays an essential role by providing vitamin B12 (cobalamin). Most animals have micro-organisms in their stomachs that produce B12, but human beings do not. Their only natural sources of B12 are meat and milk. The body needs vitamin B12 to properly develop red blood cells. A deficiency can cause pernicious and megaloblastic anemia. For anyone trying to understand the subtleties of spiritual science, possibly the most important role of vitamin B12 is that it helps maintain proper functioning of the nervous system, including brain cells. Ninety percent of the B12 remains after pasteurization, and seventy percent remains after boiling from two to five minutes.

If you are a vegan then rather than just stopping purchasing dairy products then for those of you who are not doing go-seva then why don’t you actually do some pro-active go-seva or donate some Laxmi to ISKCON cow protection centres near you. Maybe make this one of your new year resolutions?
I know that some vegan devotees in the UK yatra, but not that many are already doing this. If you really want to help in go-raksya and are a vegan then please consider doing more for go-mata than just ceasing the purchase of dairy products.
Actually make some time to be more pro-active and do more go-seva and go-raksya because becoming a vegan is merely not enough to stop cow slaughter as the cow should be protected by pro-active devotees….to be continued…