BG 6.30: For one who sees Me everywhere and sees everything in Me, I am never lost, nor is he ever lost to Me.

PURPORT
A person in Krsna consciousness certainly sees Lord Krsna everywhere, and he sees everything in Krsna. Such a person may appear to see all separate manifestations of the material nature, but in each and every instance he is conscious of Krsna, knowing that everything is a manifestation of Krsna’s energy. Nothing can exist without Krsna, and Krsna is the Lord of everything — this is the basic principle of Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is the development of love of Krsna — a position transcendental even to material liberation. At this stage of Krsna consciousness, beyond self-realization, the devotee becomes one with Krsna in the sense that Krsna becomes everything for the devotee and the devotee becomes full in loving Krsna. An intimate relationship between the Lord and the devotee then exists. In that stage, the living entity can never be annihilated, nor is the Personality of Godhead ever out of the sight of the devotee. To merge in Krsna is spiritual annihilation. A devotee takes no such risk. It is stated in the Brahma-saḿhitā (5.38):

premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena
santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti
yaḿ śyāmasundaram acintya-guna-svarūpaḿ
govindam ādi-purusaḿ tam ahaḿ bhajāmi

“I worship the primeval Lord, Govinda, who is always seen by the devotee whose eyes are anointed with the pulp of love. He is seen in His eternal form of Śyāmasundara, situated within the heart of the devotee.”

At this stage, Lord Krsna never disappears from the sight of the devotee, nor does the devotee ever lose sight of the Lord. In the case of a yogī who sees the Lord as Paramātmā within the heart, the same applies. Such a yogī turns into a pure devotee and cannot bear to live for a moment without seeing the Lord within himself.

You said:  ”Your choice to emphasize Krsna’s complete control leaves out an important part of the equation. There is a normative aspect to Krishna’s instructions to Arjuna. He advises Arjuna to abandon lethargy and egoism. “Do your duty, but understand you are My instrument.” He doesn’t say, “I am in control so it doesn’t matter what you do.””

Krsna tells Arjuna in 11:33, “They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight.

Krsna has told Arjuna that the future has already been written, all others will die in battle.  Krsna is giving Arjuna the ability to see, or realize, the role he plays in the battle & death of others, irregardless of his desire not to fight.  Arjuna can now see himself as the instrument, and not the doer.  Krsna is removing ahankara & avidya from Arjuna in this Gita lila.

The jiva-sakti has the free ability to desire.  But, jiva-sakti has zero ability to control it’s manifestation, or lack of, in any way, shape, or form.  

When one realizes & sees Krsna as the supreme controller of everything & everyone at all times, that person then realizes & enters a constant conscious connection with the Supreme…for he/she then sees Krsna everywhere, within his/her own mind…relating with him/her through everything they experience.  Gradually elevating to the platform of seeing Krsna, face to face.  This is the gradual evolutionary process of the jiva-shakti.  Shakti is never separate or independent of shaktiman. Rather, the jiva-shakti is gradually given independent consiousness/awareness of its own self and its relationship with the Supreme Self.

Someone is supposed to protect the innocent citizens from rapists and thieves and murderers. The intellectuals or brahmanas have the duty of explaining the truth to all the people so that everyone should be properly engaged in various beneficial occupations and should not become criminals. The active law enforcement workers have the duty of capturing those who do become criminals and sending them to be punished.

The demonic criminals think, “There is no God in control. I can do whatever I want.” The godly people think, “I must do my God-given duty.” To understand that God is in control is not a license to shirk our responsibilities. It is just the opposite. It is a requirement to act in accordance with His will.

“Mam anusmara yudhya ca” means, we should go on performing our God-given assignments in this world while simultaneously practicing Krishna consciousness.

Some very few, liberated saintly people in any society will be given the assignment to just travel and preach, without any possessions, not knowing where their next meal may come from. They show an ideal, of how internal renunciation may be expressed externally in renunciation of mundane work. (And even they are also engaged in acts of sacrifice, penance and charity — they are not inactive.)

Such external renunciation is not required from everyone. Krishna did not ask Arjuna to renounce in that way. He explained that real sannyasa is the internal process of dedicating one’s self to carrying out Krishna’s wishes, in any circumstance, in all walks of life, as ordained by Krishna, even in the course of the battle of Kuruksetra (which Arjuna had originally offered many learned-sounding reasons for abandoning).

Renunciation of prescribed duties may be in passion or ignorance, but renunciation in the mode of goodness consists in performing one’s prescribed duties because they ought to be done, while renouncing material association and attachment to the fruit. (B.G. 18.7-9)

Krishna consciousness is not a nihilistic philosophy or an excuse to act whimsically. It is a mandate to act righteously, in voluntary submission to Krishna’s will.

Krishna is only understood through devotional service. Service is active. Such devotional service is on the transcendental platform and is superior to realization of impersonal brahman (”mad bhaktim labhate param”).

The conditioned worker may think, “I have a duty. I have to get up and go to work in the morning, to please my parents, to support my family, to pay my taxes and be an honest citizen.”

One might be tempted to think, “This is ahankara. Who are your parents? Who are your family, your country? You are brahman, so give up this foolish activity. Jaya Gurudeva, nothing’s gonna change my world.”

But Krishna does not counsel Arjuna that way. He says that Arjuna’s arguments against doing his duty of fighting arise from ahankara! He doesn’t say, “I am going to kill Karna and Jayadratha, so you can just sit down and be passive if you want, it doesn’t matter.” He says, “Become my instrument.” He tells Arjuna to choose correctly. It is very important.

To actually act as Krishna’s instrument means one has to strive with determination to do the duties He has assigned. Determination in the mode of goodness is unbreakable and is sustained by yoga practice. Krishna consciousness is not for armchair philosophers. It is a dynamic call to action!

That action may well be to be a reformer. It is not that the world is in need of reform (it is perfectly arranged by Krishna), but Krishna has assigned us duties. He wants us to distribute the message of Krishna consciousness to those capable of receiving it.

We are already striving in so many ways to do the right thing and make the world a better place. Why are we having this conversation if not to influence each other’s perception of philosophical truth? The goal of philosophy should not be to induce us to cease action, but to guide us in acting correctly in full knowledge, free from ignorance and passion.

“The people of the world act ceaselessly in pursuance of some ideal. By meditating on Me by means of those deeds one will obtain devotion characterized by love in the shape of the supreme service.” (B.S. 5.61)

Krishna knows what you will decide, but does not interfere in your decision. He controls everything, and yet He is controlled by the love of His pure devotees.

It is consistent with Krishna’s will that we should have a choice, though we are never independent. When we decide to misuse our marginal independence by neglecting Him, we come under the control of external energy and have an illusion of independence. When we properly dedicate ourselves to His unalloyed devotional service, we are aware of our complete dependence on Him and yet we have real freedom to surprise and delight Him.

Krishna cannot be bound by logic. When poet O’Grady asked Srila Prabhupada, “Can God create a rock so big that He cannot lift it?” Srila Prabhupada replied, “Yes. And then He’ll lift it.”

There are aspects to Bhagavata philosophy that are trans-logical. The very slogan “acintya bhedabheda” contains the word “acintya”, or inconceivable, which indicates that there are truths that defy our ability to logically comprehend them. Krishna is far greater than our puny intellect.

Admittedly, to rely on the idea of “acintya” as a kind of philosophical “get out of jail free” card would be antithetical to the very enterprise of philosophy. One thing that attracted me to Krishna consciousness was its philosophical soundness. Many Christian teachers rely on the idea of “mystery” to avoid questions they do not have answers for. Gaudiya Vaisnavism’s use of “acintya” is not like that. It recognizes that there are specific limitations on logic, and can give a road map of what those limitations are, and why. To do so is philosophically sound, and will be accepted by philosophers, mathemeticians and logicians as they have accepted the existence of irrational numbers or Gödel’s incompleteness theorems.

Your choice to emphasize Krsna’s complete control leaves out an important part of the equation. There is a normative aspect to Krishna’s instructions to Arjuna. He advises Arjuna to abandon lethargy and egoism. “Do your duty, but understand you are My instrument.” He doesn’t say, “I am in control so it doesn’t matter what you do.”

“Digambara: You said that you are jiva-sakti. What is that?

Advaita: Bhagavan has said in the Bhagavad-gita (7.4-5):

bhumir apo ‘nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyam me bhinna prakrtir astadha
apareyam itas tv anyam prakrtim viddhi me param
jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat

My inferior, or material prakrti, is comprised of the eight components: earth, water, fire, air, space, mind, intelligence, and ego. These eight elements are under the control of jadamaya. There is however another prakrti which is superior to this jada-prakrti and which consists of the jivas. By it this material world is perceived or seen.

Digambara, do you know the glory of Bhagavad-gita? This sastra is the essence of the instructions of all the sastras, and it resolves all conflicts between the various philosophical ideologies. It establishes that the category of entities known as jiva-tattva is fundamentally different from the material world and is one of Isvara’s potencies. Learned authorities refer to this tattva as the tatastha-sakti. This sakti is superior to the external potency and inferior to the internal potency. Therefore, the jivas are a unique sakti of Krsna.”

“The sakti that supports the three modes of material nature –sattva, rajah, and tamah – is known as jada-sakti, and its functions are to create and destroy the universe. The Puranas and the Tantra refer to it as visnu-maya, mahamaya, maya, and so on. There are many allegorical descriptions of her activities. For example, it is said that she is the mother of Brahma, Visnu, and Siva, and that she slew the demoniac brothers Sumbha and Nisumbha. The living entity remains under the control of this sakti as long as he is engrossed in material enjoyment. When the jiva is endowed with pure knowledge, he becomes aware of his own svarupa, and this awareness enables him to transcend maya-sakti and attain the liberated status. He then comes under the control of cit-sakti and obtains spiritual happiness.

Digambara: Are you not under the control of some power?

Advaita: Yes, we are jiva-sakti. We have abandoned maya-sakti and come under the protection of cit-sakti.

Digambara: Then you are also a sakta.

Advaita: Yes, the Vaisnavas are true saktas. We are under the control of Sri Radhika, who is the embodiment of cit-sakti. It is only under Her shelter that we render service to Krsna, so who is more of a sakta than the Vaisnavas? We do not see any difference between the Vaisnavas and the real saktas. Those who are only attached to maya-sakti, without taking shelter of cit-sakti, may be called saktas, but they are not Vaisnavas; they are only materialists. In the Narada-pancaratra, Sri Durga Devi explains:

tava vaksasi radhaham rase vrndavane vane

In the forest known as Vrndavana, I am Your internal sakti,
Sri Radhika, who adorns Your chest in the rasa dance.

From this statement of Durga Devi, it is clear that there is only one sakti, not two. That sakti is Radhika when She manifests as the internal potency, and she is Durga when she is manifested as the external potency. In the condition of freedom from contact with the material modes of nature, visnu-maya is the cit-sakti. That same visnu-maya is the jada-sakti when it is endowed with the modes of nature.”

From Bhaktivinoda Thakur’s “Jaiva Dharma”:

“Advaita: My brother, Digambara, please don’t be angry. You have come to see me after such a long time, and I want to satisfy you. Is it a slight to speak of visnu-maya? Bhagavan Visnu is the embodiment of supreme consciousness, and He is the one supreme controller of all. Everything that exists is His potency. Potency is not an independent object (vastu), but rather the functional power inherent within an object (vastu-dharma). To say that sakti (potency) is the root of everything is thoroughly opposed to tattva, metaphysical truth. Sakti cannot exist independent of the object from which it originates. We must first accept the existence of an object that possesses full spiritual consciousness, otherwise accepting sakti by itself is like dreaming of a flower in the sky.

The commentary on Vedanta states, sakti-saktimator abhedah:“There is no difference between the potency and the possessor of potency.” This means that shakti is not a separate object. The Supreme Person who is the master of all potencies is the one truly abiding substance. Shakti is the quality, or inherent function, that is subordinate to His will. You have said that shakti is the embodiment of consciousness, that it possesses will, and that it is beyond the influence of the three qualities of material nature. This is correct, but only insofar as shakti operates fully under the support of a pure conscious entity, and is thus considered identical with that powerful entity. Will and consciousness depend on the Supreme Being. Will cannot exist in shakti; rather, shakti acts in accordance with the will of the Supreme Being. You have the power to move, and by your will to move, that power will act. To say “the power is moving” is merely a figure of speech; it actually means that the person who possesses that power is moving.

Bhagavan has only one sakti, which is manifest in different forms. When it functions in a spiritual capacity, it is known as cit-sakti, and when it operates in a material capacity, it is known as maya, or jada-sakti. It is stated in the Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.8), parasya saktir vividhaiva sruyate, “The Vedas say that Bhagavan’s divine sakti is full of variety.””

You said:  ”The fact that different people should take to different processes because of their specific situation is being explained by Krishna, but He is not contradicting Himself. Everything He says from start to finish is perfectly true.”

Everything Krsna says is perfectly true.  However, there are higher and deeper truths revealed as one progresses through sastra & spiritual realization.  Truth is not always one dimensional.

You said:  ”Even Krsna Himself observes proper regulations and duties. He goes to the Sudharma hall every day and conducts the affairs of government. Even Krsna goes to work every day! So why shouldn’t we?”

Krsna has everyone doing exactly what they should be doing at every given moment in time.  Krsna knows exactly everything you’ve done in the past, present, and will do in the future.  So if Krsna knows what you are going to do next, how can you decide otherwise, independent of Krsna’s will?  Krsna has already decided & knows what you are going to do.  Arjuna was Krsna’s instrument in the battle.  Instruments do not perform independent of the instrumentalist.  No logical argument can say otherwise.  

BG 11.26-27: All the sons of Dhrtarāstra, along with their allied kings, and Bhīsma, Drona, Karna — and our chief soldiers also — are rushing into Your fearful mouths. And some I see trapped with heads smashed between Your teeth.

BG 11.28: As the many waves of the rivers flow into the ocean, so do all these great warriors enter blazing into Your mouths.

BG 11.32: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds, and I have come here to destroy all people. With the exception of you [the Pāndavas], all the soldiers here on both sides will be slain.

BG 11.33: Therefore get up. Prepare to fight and win glory. Conquer your enemies and enjoy a flourishing kingdom. They are already put to death by My arrangement, and you, O Savyasācī, can be but an instrument in the fight.

BG 11.34: Drona, Bhīsma, Jayadratha, Karna and the other great warriors have already been destroyed by Me. Therefore, kill them and do not be disturbed. Simply fight, and you will vanquish your enemies in battle.

If we lived in an ideal world with ideal population, there would be no need for police and courts and jails and schools and legislatures.

There would be no practical need for different religious systems and different prescribed duties for differently-natured people. (There might still be variety for making the pastimes pleasing and interesting, but there would be no practical consideration).

We do not live in the ideal world. We live in the corner of God’s creation set aside for criminals under the sway of passion and ignorance. The practical necessity of religious and social institutions is to engage people properly while simultaneously reforming them, curing the disease of avidya from which nearly all of us are suffering in this material world, the illusion of being independent enjoyers and controllers and proprietors.

In Bhagavad-gita, Krsna advises Arjuna not to try to discourage karmis from activity, but to encourage them to perform their activities in devotion. Even those who are perfect and free from attachment to the fruits of karma can engage in the same pious actions as fruitive workers, but can do so for the pleasure of Krsna and to serve as a good example for the less enlightened.

Even Krsna Himself observes proper regulations and duties. He goes to the Sudharma hall every day and conducts the affairs of government. Even Krsna goes to work every day! So why shouldn’t we?

Part of our work in modern society may mean being responsible citizens, doing our part to insist that our government and education and religious institutions train people in the right way to behave and curb down the criminal element.

Sannyasis remind us that we have purely spiritual duties that should not be neglected. But even Srila Prabhupada took care of managing the preaching institution and looking after the needs of the devotees.

Householders have to look after the needs of their families, and should care about good schools and hospitals and police forces and road and taxes and the rest. Devotees can be good citizens. We expect them to be the best citizens, actually.

bbb: “People take birth after birth deluded by avidya and ahankara until their desire is purified. Their desire shapes their actions, not by their own free will, but by the will of Paramatma in deciding what the jiva needs to experience in order to become free from aversion to God’s control.”
So are you are saying that the living entity’s desire for purification, surrender, and service to the Lord is also a product of the will of Paramatma?

Srila Prabhupada’s statements regarding free will are clear and easy to understand. They also match my direct experiences. Your explanations are convoluted and largely contrary to what the acharya has said on this particular point. You dismiss his statements as “relative” and directed at people who are on a lower level of spiritual development. Because his instructions resonate more with my own consciousness I will stick to what he said. Perhaps this is what I need at this particular stage.
Pranams.

As far as the specific sastric references, at this time I do not know.

“Om purnam adhah purnam idam purnat purnam udacyate” comes to mind. (If we, as emanations from Krsna, do not have qualities such as abhijna and svarat, then how can we be said to be “purnam”, “complete”?

This idea that the jivas actually have no free will really seems inconsistent with the teachings of Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya. If they have no free will, then how can they be in Maya? How can they turn their back on Krishna? Does Krishna force them to be in Maya? Does he not want them to revive their dormant prema bhakti? Doesn’t He come in different avataras and personally as Lord Caitanya to reclaim the conditioned souls, protect the devotees, destroy the miscreants and restore the principles of religion?

Of course His will is supreme, but aligning our will with His will through bhakti yoga is what we must do. If we try to act independently we will be falsely directed, under the control of His illusory energy, but if we act in devotional service He will accept our offerings and will share a dynamic personal relationship with us.

Some philosophers may propose that if God knows everything, controls everything, and ultimately *is* everything, then it is not possible for Him to have dynamic loving relationships.

I remember some years ago on Dandavats one devotee named Shiva was proposing that since Radharani is also Godhead (his predominated moiety), the loving affairs between Radha and Krishna are illusory (because how can one have a loving relationship with Himself?)

Such philosophers do not take into account the inconceivable nature of Krishna. Through His inconceivable potency, He can be surprised and delighted by His own potencies, though they are nondifferent from Him.

We can be always under His control (directly and indirectly) and yet have the choice whether to voluntarily submit to His control in bhakti yoga, or whether to neglect Him and be falsely directed by His illusory Maya. That choice is ours to make. Hence we have real free will, although under illusion, forgetting the Supreme cause, we have a false sense of freedom.

Real freedom is expressed in loving devotional service.

This is a good example. In a very clear fashion, Krishna is giving knowledge relative to one’s level of spiritual realization.”

The fact that different people should take to different processes because of their specific situation is being explained by Krishna, but He is not contradicting Himself. Everything He says from start to finish is perfectly true.

Mayavadi interpreters often read verses out of context in order to support their false explanations, but when we read the Gita as a whole and understand that Krishna is all-knowing and teaching truth the whole way through, then we can see the Bhakti-Vedanta conclusion very clearly.

For example, in the second chapter, when Krishna is saying that even considering Arjuna’s particular duties as a Ksatriya he should not squander the opportunity to fight a battle as a warrior for a just cause, there is no contradiction between that statement and His later conclusion that one should abandon all duty and exclusively take shelter in Krishna.

Yes, it may be true that the Ksatriyas to whom such fighting opportunities come unsought (because they open the doorway to svarga) (2.32) are not all equipped with sufficient bhakti to take exclusive shelter of Krishna (18.66), but it is true nonetheless, and it is good advice. It is all of a piece.

Arjuna finds it inconsistent at first that Krsna counsels buddhi-yoga and also warfare, that He counsels jnana and renunciation of action as well as karma-yoga or dedicated action, and he asks questions at the beginning of the Third and Fifth Chapters which lead Krishna to give explanations which harmonize everything.

So yes, Krsna acknowledges that there are different kinds of karmis and yogis doing different kinds of sacrifices and worshiping various demigods or the impersonal Absolute or the universal form, but asserts that ultimately they are all worshiping Him. But there is a difference: Those who worship Him in a wrong way stay in the material world, and those who worship Him with unalloyed bhakti, knowing Him to be the supreme enjoyer and the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices attain the supreme destination, His eternal abode.

The Gita is a coherent, perfect whole.

You said:  ”Otherwise, how could we be creating good or bad karmic reactions?”

We don’t have the ability to create anything:

SB 11.28.6-7: “The Supersoul alone is the ultimate controller and creator of this world, and thus He alone is also the created. Similarly, the Soul of all existence Himself both maintains and is maintained, withdraws and is withdrawn. No other entity can be properly ascertained as separate from Him, the Supreme Soul, who nonetheless is distinct from everything and everyone else. The appearance of the threefold material nature, which is perceived within Him, has no actual basis. Rather, you should understand that this material nature, composed of the three modes, is simply the product of His illusory potency.”

People take birth after birth deluded by avidya and ahankara until their desire is purified. Their desire shapes their actions, not by their own free will, but by the will of Paramatma in deciding what the jiva needs to experience in order to become free from aversion to God’s control. Karma is much more complex than people often think. Often karma is seen as a simple action-reaction…you do bad you are punished. The reality is that karma is designed to purify the desire of the jiva. It’s not about vengeance, it’s about changing aversion to acceptance of God’s control.

You said:  ”It might be argued that since Lord Krsna has inherently free will, the atomic jivas - being part and parcel of Him - have an inherent free will as well, however minute. Remember: we are the same in quality and different in quantity.”

Where is that stated in shastra?  The truth is the jiva differs in so many ways, in no way does shastra teach that we are minature versions of God with the same abilities in minute form. For example: we don’t have the ability to control our thought process — we’re not the mind nor in control of it. Shastra teaches that paramatma manifests the mind, and that paramatma controls our thought process through control of memory and computational ability, and through the actual formation of our thoughts — all the work of paramatma, none of which we can do. All we do is hear our thoughts. Shastra also states we don’t even control our body. If we don’t control the mind or the body, whatever will we have is not free because we have no control over what we do or think.

You said:  ”Srila Prabhupada was teaching that we do have a free will.”

Well, in ISKCON we often use some form of the saying that the acharya is teaching people, on various levels of spiritual realization, according to time, place, & circumstance.  This is all relative to the audience’s level of spiritual realization.

You said:  ”We may say that it is a limited free will, because there are inherent limits to our options, yet the opportunity to make various relevant choices in life is really there.”

Bhakti is about purification of desire by the destruction of avidya and ahankara. We don’t have the free will to choose what path we go down in anything we do or experience. By our desire to be independent from the reality of what we are, by our desire to not live under the control of another being, we end up being put into a situation by that being which will eventually purify our desire. We have no other choice but to exist under the control of another being. We simply cannot exist without being under the control of God. We are totally dependent on God for our ability to function as intelligent people. We can’t control our thoughts, our memory, or our actions. We simply do not have the same ability that God has to exist independently.