Hate Mayavada to Love Krishna

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By Vrindavana Chandra Dasa

Based on following lectures given by Sripada Bhakti Vikasa Maharaj:

1) Hate Mayavada to Love Krishna (http://www.bvks.com/2010/09/hate-mayavada-to-love-krishna)

2) Traditional and Modern Mayavada (http://www.bvks.com/2012/08/traditional-and-modern-mayavada)

A few days back, I wrote a comment on an article published on Dandavats.com (http://www.dandavats.com/?p=10056#comment-15274) that said: “you cannot love Krishna unless you hate Mayavada.” A devotee asked me to support this statement with valid quotes. I have humbly attempted herewith to do so according to my level of realization, yathadhitam yatha-mati [SB 1.3.44], based on what I have read in Srila Prabhupada’s books and heard from his representatives.

I would like to begin with some counter questions.

  1. Is it possible to love Krishna with soft-heartedness towards the understanding that Krishna is impersonal, without form, qualities, and pastimes?

  2. Is it possible to be dear to Krishna by giving any credence, even indirect, to the perverse notion that when He comes to the material world He falls into illusion and accepts a material body as does a conditioned soul?

  3. Is it possible to love Krishna by deluding everyone into thinking of themselves as god, and thus into competing with Krishna to grab away His position?

  4. Is it possible to love Krishna by trying to kill His personality by interpreting His words that it is not to Krishna but to “the unborn, beginningless eternal who speaks through Krishna” whom we have surrender to?

  5. Is it possible to love Krishna by supporting the blasphemous statements of Mayavada philosophy that deny varieties in the Absolute Truth?

  6. Is it possible to love Krishna while simultaneously maintaining that atma and paramatma are the same and one?

  7. Is it possible that Krishna is our beloved and still we are soft-spoken to Mayavadis who have made offenses unto the lotus feet of Krishna?

The answer to these questions is “obviously” no.

A pure devotee always defies Mayavada and refrains from association of Mayavadis, not only because it harms spiritual lives of masses but also he hates Mayavada from the core of his heart.

SB 4.4.17 states that,

If one hears an irresponsible person blaspheme the master and controller of religion, one should block his ears and go away if unable to punish him. But if one is able to kill, then one should by force cut out the blasphemer’s tongue and kill the offender, and after that one should give up his own life.

The extent of above injunction shows the severity of Visnu or Vaisnava offenses. And Mayavadis are the greatest offenders as CC 1.7.155 states that “One who considers the transcendental body of Lord Visnu to be made of material nature is the greatest offender at the lotus feet of the Lord. There is no greater blasphemy against the Supreme Personality of Godhead.” Thus a devotee on any stage of devotional service either sadhaka or siddha, never tries to be friends with Mayavadis otherwise he/she may have to hear visnu-ninda (blasphemy of the Lord).

Srila Prabhupada writes in the purport of Caitanya Caritamrita Adi-lila 7.110:

—- Quote —-

How the Mayavada philosophy was condemned by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His followers is described in CC 3.2.94-99, where Svarupa-damodara Gosvami says that anyone who is eager to understand the Mayavada philosophy must be considered insane. This especially applies to a Vaisnava who reads the Sariraka-bhasya and considers himself to be one with God. The Mayavadi philosophers have presented their arguments in such attractive, flowery language that hearing Mayavada philosophy may sometimes change the mind of even a maha-bhagavata, or very advanced devotee. An actual Vaisnava cannot tolerate any philosophy that claims God and the living being to be one and the same.

—- End Quote —-

In Sri Caitanya Caritamrta, Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, mayavadi-bhasya sunile haya sarva-nasa [CC 2.6.169]. If one follows the instructions of Mayavadi philosophers and believes that the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the individual soul are one, his understanding of real philosophy is forever doomed.

Caitanya Mahaprabhu was so opposed to Mayavada that He even physically beat Advaita Acarya for teaching it. He also banished for ten million lifetimes his lifelong friend Mukunda for the fault of associating with Mayavadis. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was never pleased with Mayavada philosophy as it is antithetical to and destroys bhakti.

We also see that in Srila Prabhupada’s preaching. Srila Prabhupada was on a campaign against Mayavada and he was glorified as; nirvisesa-sunyavadi pascatya-desa tarine. In purports to Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada would never miss an opportunity to expose and kill Mayavadi interpretations. He criticized all bogus Mayavadis who tried to screw out a different meaning from Bhagavad-gita. He would openly call them “rascals.” (See “Show-bottle Spiritualists Exposed” in Journey of Self-discovery)

All great recent acaryas, such as Sripada Ramanujacarya, Sripada Madhvacarya, Sripada Visnu svami dedicated their whole life to uprooting the Mayavada philosophy.

To carry on the legacy of Srila Prabhupada and all the predecessor acaryas, we should also continue to trample on and crush the Mayavada philosophy. It is indeed a pleasure for devotees to fight and defeat those who try to kill Krishna. Is it possible for a genuine lover to hear ill of his beloved? No. Hanuman would not sit idly if Ravana were to attack Lord Rama.

Mayavada means an attempt to compete with the Lord by declaring oneself to be on the same or equal level with the Lord, which is actually a “Ravana” type disease affecting all conditioned souls. Hence Mayavada is direct enviousness towards Krishna which is hiding in everyone’s heart. To hate that enviousness is actually advancement in devotional service.

It is actually important to be always cautious of not losing sight of one of our main goals; preaching against Mayavada. Arguably, it is as important as narrating pastimes of Krsna-lila or even more so, as most of us are not on a level for appreciating or hearing such esoterica, as long as our hearts maintain any enviousness towards Krsna, a core characteristic of Mayavada.

As Lord Nityananda taught; prema pracarana ara pasanda dalana (CC 3.3.149), preaching means, to spread the cult of bhakti and to defeat and subdue the atheists. Therefore, there shouldn’t be any attempt to compromise with or befriend Mayavadis and Mayavada philosophy. As we have a zero tolerance policy in our society for child abuse, the same should hold for Mayavada infiltration.

Humbly, Vrindavana Chandra Dasa

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1 Puskaraksa das

“As Lord Jesus Christ said, we should hate the sin, not the sinner. That is a very nice statement, because the sinner is under illusion. He is mad. If we hate him, how can we deliver him? Therefore, those who are advanced devotees, who are really servants of God, do not hate anyone. When Lord Jesus Christ was being crucified, he said, “My God, forgive them. They know not what they do.” This is the proper attitude of an advanced devotee. He understands that the conditioned souls cannot be hated, because they have become mad due to their materialistic way of thinking. In this Krsna consciousness movement, there is no question of hating anyone. Everyone is welcomed to come and chant Hare Krsna, take krsna-prasada, listen to the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, and try to rectify material, conditioned life. This is the essential program of Krsna consciousness.”
(Srila Prabhupada - Path of Perfection Chapter 3: Learning How to See God)

“If one loves Krishna, he must love Lord Jesus also. And if one perfectly loves Jesus he must love Krishna too. If he says, “Why shall I love Krishna? I shall love Jesus,” then he has no knowledge. And if one says, “Why shall I love Jesus? I shall love Krishna”, then he has no knowledge either. If one understands Krishna, then he will understand Jesus. If one understands Jesus, you’ll understand Krishna too”
(Srila Prabhupada - Room conversation with Allen Ginsberg, May 12, 1969 / Columbus - Ohio)

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on September 23rd, 2012
2 pustakrishna

These are very emotion packed words, both in the article and the first reply. But, I agree that we must defeat Mayavadism with sound arguments, and not mere emotion. Emotionalism will embolden the mayavadis. “Absolute is sentient thou hast proved, impersonal calamity thou hast removed”. I hope I am quoting Srila Prabhupad correctly in one of his early poems glorifying Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad. During the incubation phase of spiritual seeking, it is natural that many will take the ascending speculative path toward understanding the truth. It is only when we have the blessed fortune to meet a great vaishnava acharya, in the Parampara, that Truth can descend and we acquire the correct understanding of the sambandha of things. The most confidential knowledge is only acquired from the Parampara. The rest stops at the brahmajyoti. The brahmajyoti is not to be hated. It is Krishna’s bodily effulgence. Rather, the misconception that the ultimate destination is that effulgence falls short of the confidential reality that can only be known through bhakti: Bhaktya mam abhijanati…Krishna gives Himself away to His devotees. It is a glorious and beautiful reality. It must be attractive, because Krishna is All-Attractive.

While we go through life in Krishna consciousness, we can be confident that we have the Truth backing us up. We can look upon Mayavadism with different levels. The innocent seeker may get stuck at that threshold and needs some gentle push to get over the hump to realisation of Personalism. The arguments we use must be gentle and persuasive for them. On the other hand, those who make speculative arguments about the Form of God having arisen from the impersonal stuff of brahman, neither have information nor realization. Krishna is without any origin, but is the origin of everything. This is Arjuna’s realization, the realization of great sages and saints both past and present. It is the great wonder of God. Such misinformation as might be spread by that class of mayavadin needs to be smashed. It can mislead others who might be genuine seekers of the Truth.

All glories to the followers of Sri Sri Guru Gauranga and Srila Prabhupad. They strive to promote and protect the Parampara. My head at your feet, Pusta Krishna das

Comment posted by pustakrishna on September 25th, 2012
3 Unregistered

Association with nondevotees takes place in many ways, aside from face-to-face encounters. Through books, movies, gathering places — the possibilities of contact are unlimited. Especially nowadays, a person may apparently live alone in a city apartment and yet be completely immersed in bad association through mass media and technological entertainment. It takes deliberate cultivation, and a fight, to remove oneself from bad influences.

One may object to these injunctions and claim, “God is everywhere! Why say that certain people are bad?” The topmost devotee, the maha-bhagavata, can see all persons as perfect servants of God. He humbly thinks that everyone is a servant of the Lord except himself. But another qualification of a maha-bhagavata is that he always thinks of Krsna and never forgets Him for a moment. One should not imitate one aspect of the maha-bhagavata’s activities while lacking his qualifications. In other words, on the plea of following the example of the great devotees, one should not indulge in bad association and claim, “It’s all Krsna.”

The great majority of devotees have to make an effort to come up from the lower (kanistha) stage of devotion, where one sees God only in the temple. They have to strive to reach the second stage (madhyama), where one acknowledges that God is in everyone’s heart and yet discriminates in his relationships. The madhyama-bhakta saves his love for the Supreme Lord, makes friendships with like-minded devotees, shows compassion to innocent persons, and avoids the demons. He takes seriously the following injunction from the Katyayana-samhita: “It is better to accept the miseries of being encaged within bars and surrounded by burning flames than to associate with those bereft of Krsna consciousness. Such association is a very great hardship”

Narada-Bhakti-sutra, Ch. 3, The Means of Achievement

Comment posted by Vrindavanchandra on September 27th, 2012
4 Kesava Krsna dasa

The very title of this article, which includes the dualistic “hate” word, is against the Vaisnava creed, for a Vaisnava does not hate anything within the Lord’s creation.

Then how to deal with Mayavada philosophy? A Vaisnava does not ‘hate’ such concepts but rather deals with them. Even so, most people who follow such concepts are innocemt.

“People in general are not very advanced in knowledge by which to discriminate between religion and irreligion. The innocent, unenlightened citizen is like an ignorant animal sleeping in peace with its head on the lap of its master, faithfully believing in the master’s protection.” (SB 6.2.5-6)

Innocent and unenlightened citizens who want peace in their lives and have good intentions, require “sa-ghrnah—who has a soft heart for the good of all people (SB 6.2.5-6)” But the same devotees may charge that it is easy to be soft on people. The converse can be argued that it is easier to simply be blunt and heavy with people while preaching, because that way one will minimise the quality of debate and meaningful enquiry.

Because ‘hate’ has a dualistic consequence, if devotees harbour hatred in any form towards others, then his words and actions will be no different from any politician or hate monger that stows discord among innocent and unenlightened people.

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 9th, 2012
5 pustakrishna

The mayavad philosophy is a result of mental speculation via the ascending method of acquiring knowledge. One tries to expand their understanding of reality to include “everything”. As such one is part of that everything…and therefore, one is part of that One or God. They have no conception of a Creator that exists independently of His creation.
You could use the example that I think helps a mayavad understand their conception. If one takes a piece of paper, and tears it up into pieces, you could say that collectively all the pieces make up the one piece of paper.
However, the Supreme Absolute Truth is Yogeswara, the master of all mystics. God can create, and exists independently of His creation. Janmadyasya yatah…the first verse of the Srimad Bhagavatam defines God as the Creator, Independent, All-knowing. Very much like the Hebrew and Islamic conception of creation. We have also heard the material example to understand the nature of God…just like one candle being used to light many other candles. The original candle is still there. Advaita acyuta anadim ananta rupam…Brahma Samhita also defines the mystical nature of God and His capacity to expand Himself into unlimited forms without being diminished. Through the descending method of acquiring knowledge, one can easily learn about Him, and this is the basis for acquiring knowledge in the line of Parampara. Realization may follow according to Krishna’s mercy only.
If mayavadins were to be despised, then I would never have had a chance to learn about Krishna. And, Krishna is within your heart. Tesam evanukampartham…BG, Krishna out of His Causeless mercy enlightens us from within, bringing His Truth to life for us. Devotees can give the opportunity to the conditioned souls to approach Sri Krishna. Try to win back souls for Krishna. You can hate the disease, but not the patient. Coax the patient, the fallen soul, to come Home to His eternal Friend. All sincere souls with good fortune will agree. Hare Krishna. Pusta Krishna das

Comment posted by pustakrishna on October 12th, 2012
6 Kesava Krsna dasa

If we delve more into – dvesa – hate, we see it also means envy. Mayavada philosophy already encourages one to be envious of the Lord, and hateful or indifferent to His opulences and form.

For any devotee to adopt hatred, means to also be envious. By using ‘hate’ as a tool to overcome mayavada, and by extension – mayavadis, indicates some hidden or open envy for them. Why should devotees be envious of those who are envious of the Lord, or of a school of thought that espouses envy of the Lord?

If Krishna is the Lord of our hearts and He allows envious people to become mayavadis, then why should we be envious of this allowance? And if we harbour such envy and hatred indirectly towards the Lord, then how can we possibly ‘love’ Krishna, as the title states?

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 13th, 2012
7 Payonidhi Das

Mayavadi Philosophy is offensive to Krsna as it denies his personality and Lord Caitanya did not tolerate any of His associates to even touch this mayavada philosophy slightly…

Comment posted by Payonidhi Das on October 20th, 2012
8 bhakta piyush

In the Padma Purana there is a conversation between Lord Shiva and Parvati and Lord Shiva says:

mayavadam asac chastram pracchannam bauddham uchyate
mayaiva kalpitam devi kalau brahmana rupina

Mayavada or Advaita philosophy is an impious, wicked belief and against all the conclusions of the Vedas. It is only covered Buddhism. My dear Parvati, in Kali-Yuga I assume the form of a brahmana (Adi Shankara) and teach this imagined philosophy. - Padma Purana 6.236.7

————————————————————————————————————————
Kṛṣṇa is unknown, a black thing. A Māyāvādī, great philosopher of this city, he has explained like that. The Māyāvādī philosopher, Dr. Radhakrishnan, “It is not to Kṛṣṇa.” So the Māyāvādīs’ only business is—because they’re avaiṣṇava not Vaiṣṇava—only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa.
Srila Prabhupada’s Lecture. The Nectar of Devotion — Bombay, January 8, 1973:

Kṛṣṇa is unknown, a black thing. A Māyāvādī, great philosopher of this city, he has explained like that. The Māyāvādī philosopher, Dr. Radhakrishnan, “It is not to Kṛṣṇa.” So the Māyāvādīs’ only business is—because they’re avaiṣṇava not Vaiṣṇava—only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī has, in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, has very strongly recommended that, “Don’t hear anything from, about Kṛṣṇa, from the Māyāvādīs or the avaiṣṇavas.” Those who are follower, those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can PROTEST.
——————————————————————————————————————————

Comment posted by bhakta piyush on October 21st, 2012
9 bhakta piyush

Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Sanātana Gosvāmī has, in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, has very strongly recommended that, “Don’t hear anything from, about Kṛṣṇa, from the Māyāvādīs or the avaiṣṇavas.”
The Nectar of Devotion — Bombay, January 8, 1973:

Kṛṣṇa is unknown, a black thing. A Māyāvādī, great philosopher of this city, he has explained like that. The Māyāvādī philosopher, Dr. Radhakrishnan, “It is not to Kṛṣṇa.” So the Māyāvādīs’ only business is—because they’re avaiṣṇava not Vaiṣṇava—only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī has, in his Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, has very strongly recommended that, “Don’t hear anything from, about Kṛṣṇa, from the Māyāvādīs or the avaiṣṇavas.” Those who are follower, those who are advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they can protest. They can immediately chastise the rascal, “What you are nonsense speaking?”

But a kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, he cannot challenge, therefore it is forbidden for them.
Not to hear, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. For an advanced devotee, this Māyāvādī cannot do anything, but those who are neophyte, they become sometimes victim. Therefore, it is better to forbid them, not to hear. So Sanātana Gosvāmī has said, as Kṛṣṇa has said, satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). In the association of pure devotees, kṛṣṇa-kathāḥ becomes very relishable. Hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ. It is relishable, it is very pleasing to the ear, and to the heart.

For the Māyāvādī philosopher there is no question of love. They merge. They want sāyujya-mukti, to become one.
Philosophy Discussion on Jacques Maritain:

Śyāmasundara: He says that this is…, because of this spiritual personality that he can know and love God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without person how there can be love? There is no question of love. You cannot love air or sky; you must find out a man or woman in the, under the sky. So therefore if you want to love God then you must accept God is a person; otherwise there is no question of love. Therefore for the Māyāvādī philosopher there is no question of love. They merge. They want sāyujya-mukti, to become one. They have no other conception, because they cannot conceive personal God. So there is no love. Therefore they manufacture an idea that in the material condition of life, you just imagine any form of God and love Him, and ultimately you become one. That is their philosophy…

Comment posted by bhakta piyush on October 21st, 2012
10 Unregistered

I think the question to provide shastric evidence is a loaded one - it implies that if shastra doesn’t talk about hatred of mayavadis than it’s an illegitimate feeling.

But mayavada is only a very recent phenomenon. Modern mayavada started only in the 19th century with antics of Ramakrishna. Even in Lord Chaitanya’s time mayvadis were supposed to take sannyasa, study scriptures and strictly follow all the rules and regulations, no singing, no chanting, no bhakti, so we can’t expect expose on modern practices even in the works of Six Goswamis.

All we left for shastra are the works of acharyas from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura onwards, and in those works there’s no doubt of intolerance towards mayavada views and practices. In Jaiva Dharma Bhaktivinoda Thakur stated that mayavadis, even those wearing tilakas and practicing bhakti, are non-Vaishnavas and offenders to the Lord. Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati treated them worse than sahajiyas and other deviant apa-sampradayas. Srila Prabhupada’s battle with mayavadis is reflected in his pranama mantra, can’t get any more serious than that.

Then there’s a question of what “hate” means in this context. If we accept that it’s a valid emotion when used in appropriate circumstances than there’s no subject of hate more deserved than mayavadis. There are people ignorant of God’s existence but we can’t hate them for their ignorance. There are demons like Hiranyakashipu but Krishna actually enjoys fighting them. In that sense demons, even Kamsa, are not opposite of devotees.

The only true antithesis to devotional service is impersonalism and desire to become God yourself. I think we can be indifferent to it only due to our gross ignorance, or, perhaps, our own subtle mayavada contamination. Or we might simply enjoy their company and their singing just like we might still enjoy watching interesting movies. Needless to say, we should know that this is wrong and we should strive to give it up.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 24th, 2012
11 Unregistered

Found this in Chaitanya Charitamrita:

CC Madhya 6.268
‘sāyujya’ śunite bhaktera haya ghṛṇā-bhaya
naraka vāñchaye, tabu sāyujya nā laya

Word for word:
sāyujya — liberation by merging into the effulgence; śunite — even to hear; bhaktera — of the devotee; haya — there is; ghṛṇāhatred; bhaya — fear; naraka — a hellish condition of life; vāñchaye — he desires; tabu — still; sāyujya — merging into the effulgence of the Lord; nā laya — never accepts.
Translation:
“A pure devotee does not like even to hear about sāyujya-mukti, which inspires him with fear and hatred. Indeed, the pure devotee would rather go to hell than merge into the effulgence of the Lord.”
Purport:

Śrīla Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī has sung, kaivalyaṁ narakāyate. The impersonalist’s conception of becoming one with the effulgence of the Lord is exactly like hell. Therefore, of the five types of liberation, the first four (sālokya, sāmīpya, sārūpya and sārṣṭi) are not so undesirable because they can be avenues of service to the Lord. Nonetheless, a pure devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa rejects even these types of liberation; he aspires only to serve Kṛṣṇa birth after birth. He is not very interested in stopping the repetition of birth, for he simply desires to serve the Lord, even in hellish circumstances. Consequently the pure devotee hates and fears sāyujya-mukti, merging into the effulgence of the Lord. This merging is due to an offense committed against the transcendental loving service of the Lord, and therefore it is not at all desirable for a pure devotee.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 25th, 2012
12 Unregistered

This is from Prema Bhakti-candrika:

Text 9

kama krodha moha lobha mada matsarjya dambha-saha
sthane sthane nijukta kariba
ananda kari hrdaya ripu kari parajaya
anayase gobinda bhajiba

Word for word:

kama — lust; krodha — anger; moha — illusion; lobha — greed; mada — pride; matsarjya — envy; dambha-saha — with vanity; sthane sthane — in their respective places; nijukta — engage; kariba — will do; ananda — happiness; kari — doing; hrdaya — heart; ripu — the enemies; kari — do; parajaya — defeat; anayase — easily; gobinda — Lord Govinda; bhajiba — will worship.

Translation:

I will engage lust, anger, greed, illusion, envy and pride in their proper places. In this way, I will defeat the enemies and with ecstasy in my heart, I will worship Govinda without difficulty.

Text 10

krsna seva kamarpane krodha bhakta-dwesi-jane
lobha sadhu-sange hari-katha
moha ista-labha-bine mada krsna-guna-gane
nijukta kariba jatha tatha

Word for word:

krsna seva — service to Krsna; kamarpane — engage lust; krodha — anger; bhakta — devotee; dwesi-jane — envious persons; lobha — greed; sadhu-sange — in the association of devotees; hari-katha — opics of Hari; moha — illusion; ista-labha — attaining; bine — without; mada — pride; krsna — Lord Krsna; guna-gane — glorifying the qualities; nijukta — engaged; kariba — will do; jatha tatha — proper places

Translation:

I will engage my lust in eagerness to serve Krsna and I will use my anger against those who are envious of the devotees. I will be greedy to hear the topics of Hari in the association of the devotees. I will be illusioned if I fail to achieve my worshipable Lord and I will feel proud to chant the glories of Krsna. In this way, I will engage them in their respective duties.

Comment posted by Vrindavanchandra on October 25th, 2012
13 Kesava Krsna dasa

Part One:

I thank both Sitalatma Prabhu and Vrndavana Candra Prabhu for providing some Sastric input. I am enlightened by these, and I apologise profusely if what I have written might have inconvenienced anyone connected with this discussion.

I was aware that our negative emotions can be engaged in service to the Lord, and the ‘hate’ one has its use as well. The (CC Madhya 6.268) verse requires some breaking down in terms of how we present Krishna consciousness to the world, and our relationship with mayavadis.

Although the said emotion is placed there, I would still like to know if Srila Prabhupada ever used the word ‘hate’ himself, directed specifically at mayavadis. This is significant because he is our prime example.

In terms of representing Srila Prabhupada and Iskcon, I think it would be naïve to use this verse in isolation and as a platform for ‘hate-vada’ or for justifying ‘strong’ and ‘heavy’ for the sake of it.

For instance, we all know that one thing leads on to another. Supposing a section of devotees used a ‘hate’ platform that alienated and prevented others from engaging in Krishna’s service, and this was set as a precedent, then we can imagine where next it might lead to. God forbid if it evolved into anti-mayavada armed resistance, or something like that. It happens elsewhere.

Dvesa, or hate and envy, nonetheless belongs to the mode of ignorance, as it is something all living beings are born in to. Its connection with our false ego also links up ultimately with Sankarsana. Ignorance activities like sleep, have their use in Krishna’s service. So how is ‘hate’ going to be used, especially on the preaching front?

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 25th, 2012
14 Kesava Krsna dasa

Part Two:

For me – I am sure for other devotees as well – this ‘hate’ promotion is a recent development. I have not encountered devotees openly using the word ‘hate.’ An argument is raised that ‘hate’ is part of the madhyama avoidance of the envious. Madhyama is not a sama-darshinah level, but I was not taught that ‘hatred’ is part of our avoidance of the envious.

If a madhyama Vaisnava exhibits dvesa, which is ignorance, it does not fit in with the mode of goodness madhyama attainment. On a steady nistha level – goodness – which equates with the requisite humility of “trnad api sunicena…” we see that manadena – the giving of respect to all – does not accommodate ‘hate.’

If we analyse the context of the ‘hate’ word in the CC verse, we find terms “do not like,” “would rather,” and in the purport, “aspires only to serve Krishna.” On a human level these could be characterised as internal or private preferential emotions. There is certainly no instruction by Srila Prabhupada to outwardly ‘hate’ as a campaign, if that is our intention.

This has to balance with whatever Srila Prabhupada said himself, and I do not recall him saying that he ‘hated’ mayavadis. Again, I stand to be corrected. In the absence of such quotes, the CC verse would not suffice as a platform for hatred from a supposed mode of goodness level. There is more to say yet.

The Prema Bhakti chandrika text 9 verse is also an internalised expression.

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 25th, 2012
15 Unregistered

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in Rai Ramananda:

Sri Krishna-Chaitanya had always a detestation for mayavada–that phase of pantheism in which the eternal service is practically denied and pedantic aspersions are found to predominate over the aspects of transcendental manifestive Truth.

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura writes in a commentary to Sri Caitanya Bhagavata Adi Khanda 12.76:

The fierce poison of formidable impersonalism vomited by foolish, imperfect yogis who are conditioned by maya and who proclaim themselves as ahangrahopasakas, or self-worshipers, is extremely abominable, hated, and totally disapproved by Gaurasundara.

Comment posted by Vrindavanchandra on October 26th, 2012
16 Kesava Krsna dasa

Yes, some nice self-realised quotes are always enlivening to read. But they do not establish any precedent for ‘hate-vada.’ Srila Prabhupada adapted his own preaching style suitable for the world outside of India and the ‘Gaudiya Matha.’

These quotes will not convince intelligent and experienced devotees that they form a philosophical foundation of any kind in pursuance of preaching with ‘hate.’

The all-important quotes will be what Srila Prabhupada said, in practical terms.

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.23: In distributing love of Godhead, Caitanya Mahāprabhu and His associates did not consider who was a fit candidate and who was not, nor where such distribution should or should not take place. They made no conditions. Wherever they got the opportunity, the members of the Pañca-tattva distributed love of Godhead.

CC Ādi 7.24: Although the members of the Pañca-tattva plundered the storehouse of love of Godhead and ate and distributed its contents, there was no scarcity, for this wonderful storehouse is so complete that as the love is distributed, the supply increases hundreds of times.

CC Ādi 7.25: The flood of love of Godhead swelled in all directions, and thus young men, old men, women and children were all immersed in that inundation.

CC Ādi 7.26: The Krsna consciousness movement will inundate the entire world and drown everyone, whether one be a gentleman, a rogue or even lame, invalid or blind.

CC Ādi 7.27: When the five members of the Pañca-tattva saw the entire world drowned in love of Godhead and the seed of material enjoyment in the living entities completely destroyed, they all became exceedingly happy.

CC Ādi 7.28: The more the five members of the Pañca-tattva cause the rains of love of Godhead to fall, the more the inundation increases and spreads all over the world.

CC Ādi 7.29-30: The IMPERSONALISTS, fruitive workers, false logicians, blasphemers, nondevotees and lowest among the student community are very expert in avoiding the Krsna consciousness movement, and therefore the inundation of Krsna consciousness cannot touch them.

CC Ādi 7.31-32: Seeing that the MAYAVADIS and others were fleeing, Lord Caitanya thought, “I wanted everyone to be immersed in this inundation of love of Godhead, but some of them have escaped. THEREFORE I SHALL DEVISE A TRICK TO DROWN THEM ALSO”

CC Ādi 7.33: Thus the Lord accepted the sannyāsa order of life after full consideration.

CC Ādi 7.34: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu remained in householder life for twenty-four years, and on the verge of His twenty-fifth year He accepted the sannyāsa order.

CC Ādi 7.35: After accepting the sannyāsa order, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu attracted the attention of all those who had evaded Him, beginning with the logicians.

CC Ādi 7.36: Thus the students, infidels, fruitive workers and critics all came to surrender unto the lotus feet of the Lord.

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.37: Lord Caitanya excused them all, and they merged into the ocean of devotional service, for no one can escape the unique loving network of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

CC Ādi 7.38: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu appeared in order to deliver all the fallen souls. Therefore He devised many methods to liberate them from the clutches of māyā.

CC Ādi 7.39: All were converted into devotees of Lord Caitanya, even the mlecchas and yavanas. Only the impersonalist followers of Śańkarācārya evaded Him.

CC Ādi 7.40: While Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was passing through Vārāṇasī on His way to Vṛndāvana, the Māyāvādī sannyāsī philosophers blasphemed against Him in many ways.

CC Ādi 7.41: The blasphemers said, “Although a sannyāsī, He does not take interest in the study of Vedānta but instead always engages in chanting and dancing in sańkīrtana.

CC Ādi 7.42: “This Caitanya Mahāprabhu is an illiterate sannyāsī and therefore does not know His real function. Guided only by His sentiments, He wanders about in the company of other sentimentalists.”

CC Ādi 7.43: Hearing all this blasphemy, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu merely smiled to Himself, rejected all these accusations and did not talk with the Māyāvādīs.

CC Ādi 7.44: Thus neglecting the blasphemy of the Vārāṇasī Māyāvādīs, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu proceeded to Mathurā, and after visiting Mathurā He returned to meet the situation.

CC Ādi 7.45: This time Lord Caitanya stayed at the house of Candraśekhara, although he was regarded as a śūdra or kāyastha, for the Lord, as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is completely independent.

CC Ādi 7.46: As a matter of principle, Lord Caitanya regularly accepted His food at the house of Tapana Miśra. He never mixed with other sannyāsīs, nor did He accept invitations from them.

CC Ādi 7.47: When Sanātana Gosvāmī came from Bengal, he met Lord Caitanya at the house of Tapana Miśra, where Lord Caitanya remained continuously for two months to teach him devotional service.

CC Ādi 7.48: On the basis of scriptures like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, which reveal these confidential directions, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed Sanātana Gosvāmī regarding all the regular activities of a devotee.

CC Ādi 7.49: While Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu was instructing Sanātana Gosvāmī, both Candraśekhara and Tapana Miśra became very unhappy. Therefore they submitted an appeal unto the lotus feet of the Lord.

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.50: “How long can we tolerate the blasphemy by Your critics against Your conduct? We should give up our lives rather than hear such blasphemy.

CC Ādi 7.51: “The MAYAVADI sannyāsīs are all criticizing Your Holiness. We cannot tolerate hearing such criticism, for this blasphemy breaks our hearts.”

CC Ādi 7.52: While Tapana Miśra and Candraśekhara were thus talking with Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He only smiled slightly and remained silent. At that time a brāhmana came there to meet the Lord.

CC Ādi 7.53: The brāhmana immediately fell at the lotus feet of Caitanya Mahāprabhu and requested Him to accept his proposal in a joyful mood.

CC Ādi 7.54: “My dear Lord, I have invited all the sannyāsīs of Benares to my home. My desires will be fulfilled if You also accept my invitation.”

CC Ādi 7.55: “My dear Lord, I know that You never mix with other sannyāsīs, but please be merciful unto me and accept my invitation.

CC Ādi 7.56: Lord Caitanya smiled and accepted the invitation of the brāhmana. He made this gesture TO SHOW HIS MERCY TO THE MAYAVADI SANNYASIS.

CC Ādi 7.57: The brāhmana knew that Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu never went to anyone else’s house, yet due to inspiration from the Lord he earnestly requested Him to accept this invitation.

CC Ādi 7.58: The next day, when Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu went to the house of that brāhmana, He saw all the sannyāsīs of Benares sitting there.

CC Ādi 7.59: AS SOON AS SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU SAW THE SANNYASIS HE IMMEDIATELY OFFERED OBEISSANCES, and then He went to wash His feet. After washing His feet, He sat down by the place where He had done so.

CC Ādi 7.60: After sitting on the ground, Caitanya Mahāprabhu exhibited His mystic power by manifesting an effulgence as brilliant as the illumination of millions of suns.

CC Ādi 7.61: When the sannyāsīs saw the brilliant illumination of the body of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, their minds were attracted, and they all immediately gave up their sitting places and stood in respect.

CC Ādi 7.62: The leader of all the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs present was named Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, and after standing up he addressed Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu as follows with great respect.

CC Ādi 7.63: “Please come here. Please come here, Your Holiness. WHY DO YOU SIT IN THAT UNCLEAN PLACE? What has caused Your lamentation?”

CC Ādi 7.64: The Lord replied, “I BELONG TO A LOWER ORDER OF SANNYASIS. THEREFORE, I DO NOT DESERVE TO SIT WITH YOU.”

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.65: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, however, caught Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu personally by the hand and seated Him with great respect in the midst of the assembly.

CC Ādi 7.66: Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī then said, “I understand that Your name is Śrī Krsna Caitanya. You are a disciple of Śrī Keśava Bhāratī, and therefore You are glorious.

CC Ādi 7.67: “You belong to our Śańkara-sampradāya and live in our village, Vārānasī. Why then do You not associate with us? Why is it that You avoid even seeing us?

CC Ādi 7.68: “You are a sannyāsī. Why then do You indulge in chanting and dancing, engaging in Your sańkīrtana movement in the company of fanatics?

CC Ādi 7.69: “Meditation and the study of Vedānta are the sole duties of a sannyāsī. Why do You abandon these to dance with fanatics?

CC Ādi 7.70: “You look as brilliant as if You were Nārāyana Himself. Will You kindly explain the reason that You have adopted the behavior of lower-class people?”

CC Ādi 7.71: Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu replied to Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, “My dear sir, kindly hear the reason. My spiritual master considered Me a fool, and therefore he chastised Me.

CC Ādi 7.72: “‘You are a fool,’ he said. ‘You are not qualified to study Vedānta philosophy, and therefore You must always chant the holy name of Krsna. This is the essence of all mantras, or Vedic hymns.

CC Ādi 7.73: “Simply by chanting the holy name of Krsna one can obtain freedom from material existence. Indeed, simply by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra one will be able to see the lotus feet of the Lord.

CC Ādi 7.74: “‘In this Age of Kali there is no religious principle other than the chanting of the holy name, which is the essence of all Vedic hymns. This is the purport of all scriptures.’

CC Ādi 7.75: “After describing the potency of the Hare Krsna mahā-mantra, My spiritual master taught Me another verse, advising Me to always keep it within My throat.

CC Ādi 7.76: “‘For spiritual progress in this Age of Kali, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative to the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord.’

CC Ādi 7.77: “Since I received this order from My spiritual master, I always chant the holy name, but I thought that by chanting and chanting the holy name I had been bewildered.

CC Ādi 7.78: “While chanting the holy name of the Lord in pure ecstasy, I lose myself, and thus I laugh, cry, dance and sing just like a madman.

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.79: “Collecting My patience, therefore, I began to consider that chanting the holy name of Krsna had covered all My spiritual knowledge.

CC Ādi 7.80: “I saw that I had become mad by chanting the holy name, and I immediately submitted this at the lotus feet of my spiritual master.

CC Ādi 7.81: “‘My dear lord, what kind of mantra have you given Me? I have become mad simply by chanting this mahā-mantra!

CC Ādi 7.82: “‘Chanting the holy name in ecstasy causes Me to dance, laugh and cry.’ When My spiritual master heard all this, he smiled and then began to speak.

CC Ādi 7.83: “‘It is the nature of the Hare Krsna mahā-mantra that anyone who chants it immediately develops his loving ecstasy for Krsna.

CC Ādi 7.84: “‘Religiosity, economic development, sense gratification and liberation are known as the four goals of life, but before love of Godhead, the fifth and highest goal, these appear as insignificant as straw in the street.

CC Ādi 7.85: “‘For a devotee who has actually developed bhāva, the pleasure derived from dharma, artha, kāma and moksa appears like a drop in the presence of the sea.

CC Ādi 7.86: “‘The conclusion of all revealed scriptures is that one should awaken his dormant love of Godhead. You are greatly fortunate to have already done so.

CC Ādi 7.87: “‘It is a characteristic of love of Godhead that by nature it induces transcendental symptoms in one’s body and makes one more and more greedy to achieve the shelter of the lotus feet of the Lord.

CC Ādi 7.88: “‘When one actually develops love of Godhead, he naturally sometimes cries, sometimes laughs, sometimes chants and sometimes runs here and there just like a madman.

CC Ādi 7.89-90: “‘Perspiration, trembling, standing on end of one’s bodily hairs, tears, faltering voice, fading complexion, madness, melancholy, patience, pride, joy and humility — these are various natural symptoms of ecstatic love of Godhead, which causes a devotee to dance and float in an ocean of transcendental bliss while chanting the Hare Krsna mantra.

CC Ādi 7.91: “‘It is very good, my dear child, that You have attained the supreme goal of life by developing love of Godhead. Thus You have pleased me very much, and I am very much obliged to You.

CC Ādi 7.92: “‘My dear child, continue dancing, chanting and performing sańkīrtana in association with devotees. Furthermore, go out and preach the value of chanting krsna-nāma, for by this process You will be able to deliver all fallen souls.’

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
22 Puskaraksa das

CC Ādi 7.93: “Saying this, My spiritual master taught Me a verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is the essence of all the Bhāgavatam’s instructions; therefore he recited this verse again and again.

CC Ādi 7.94: “‘When a person is actually advanced and takes pleasure in chanting the holy name of the Lord, who is very dear to him, he is agitated and loudly chants the holy name. He also laughs, cries, becomes agitated and chants just like a madman, not caring for outsiders.’

CC Ādi 7.95-96: “I firmly believe in these words of My spiritual master, and therefore I always chant the holy name of the Lord, alone and in the association of devotees. That holy name of Lord Krsna sometimes causes Me to chant and dance, and therefore I chant and dance. Please do not think that I intentionally do it. I do it automatically.

CC Ādi 7.97: “Compared to the ocean of transcendental bliss that one tastes by chanting the Hare Krsna mantra, the pleasure derived from impersonal Brahman realization [brahmānanda] is like the shallow water in a canal.

CC Ādi 7.98: “‘My dear Lord, O master of the universe, since I have directly seen You, my transcendental bliss has taken the shape of a great ocean. Being situated in that ocean, I now realize all other so-called happiness to be like the water contained in the hoofprint of a calf.’”

CC Ādi 7.99: AFTER HEARING LORD SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU, ALL THE MAYAVADI SANNYASIS WERE MOVED. THEIR MINDS CHANGED AND THUS THEY SPOKE WITH PLEASING WORDS.

CC Ādi 7.100: “Dear Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, what You have said is all true. Only one who is favored by fortune attains love of Godhead.

CC Ādi 7.101: “Dear Sir, there is no objection to Your being a great devotee of Lord Krsna. Everyone is satisfied with this. But why do You avoid discussion on the Vedānta-sūtra? What is the fault in it?”

CC Ādi 7.102: After hearing the Māyāvādī sannyāsīs speak in that way, Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu smiled slightly and said, “MY DEAR SIRS, IF YOU DON’T MIND I CAN SAY SOMETHING TO YOU REGARDING VEDANTA PHILOSOPHY.”The seriously inquisitive student or sage, well equipped with knowledge and detachment, realizes that Absolute Truth by rendering devotional service in terms of what he has heard from the Vedānta-śruti.

CC Ādi 7.103: HEARING THIS, THE MAYAVADI SANNYASIS BECAME SOMEWHAT HUMBLE and addressed Caitanya Mahāprabhu as Nārāyana Himself, who they all agreed He was.

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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CC Ādi 7.104: “Dear Caitanya Mahāprabhu,” they said, “TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, WE ARE GREATLY PLEASED TO HEAR YOUR WORDS, and furthermore Your bodily features are so pleasing that we feel extraordinary satisfaction in seeing You.

CC Ādi 7.105: “Dear Sir, BY YOUR INFLUENCE OUR MINDS ARE GREATLY SATISFIED AND WE BELIEVE THAT YOUR WORDS WILL NEVER BE UNREASONABLE. Therefore You may speak on the Vedānta-sūtra.”

SRI CAITANYA MAHAPRABHU ki JAYA !

From the divine example of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we can understand that the way to preach is through humility and compassion. This was confirmed by my spiritual master Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja who also quoted this very example of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to teach us how we should behave in the course of our preaching activities.

Hence, where is the scope for “hatred” ?

Another very good example is Prahlad Maharaja who remained equiposed and displayed the utmost compassion, even upon those who behaved as enemies towards him:

SB 7.5.30: Prahlada Maharaja replied: Because of their uncontrolled senses, persons too addicted to materialistic life make progress toward hellish conditions and repeatedly chew that which has already been chewed. Their inclinations toward Krsna are never aroused, either by the instructions of others, by their own efforts, or by a combination of both.

SB 7.5.31: Persons who are strongly entrapped by the consciousness of enjoying material life, and who have therefore accepted as their leader or guru a similar blind man attached to external sense objects, cannot understand that the goal of life is to return home, back to Godhead, and engage in the service of Lord Visnu. As blind men guided by another blind man miss the right path and fall into a ditch, materially attached men led by another materially attached man are bound by the ropes of fruitive labor, which are made of very strong cords, and they continue again and again in materialistic life, suffering the threefold miseries.

SB 7.5.32: Unless they smear upon their bodies the dust of the lotus feet of a Vaisnava completely freed from material contamination, persons very much inclined toward materialistic life cannot be attached to the lotus feet of the Lord, who is glorified for His uncommon activities. Only by becoming Krsna conscious and taking shelter at the lotus feet of the Lord in this way can one be freed from material contamination.

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
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SB 7.5.8: When Hiranyakasipu’s servants brought the boy Prahlada back to the guru-kula [the place where the brahmanas taught the boys], the priests of the demons, Sanda and Amarka, pacified him. With very mild voices and affectionate words, they inquired from him as follows.

SB 7.5.9: Dear son Prahlada, all peace and good fortune unto you. Kindly do not speak lies; just reply with the truth. These boys you see are not like you, for they do not speak in a deviant way. How have you learned these instructions? How has your intelligence been spoiled in this way?

SB 7.5.10: O best of your family, has this pollution of your intelligence been brought about by you or by the enemies? We are all your teachers and are very eager to hear about this. Please tell us the truth.

SB 7.5.11: Prahlada Maharaja replied: Let me offer my respectful obeisances unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, whose external energy has created the distinctions of “my friend” and “my enemy” by deluding the intelligence of men. Indeed, I am now actually experiencing this, although I have previously heard of it from authoritative sources.

SB 7.5.12: When the Supreme Personality of Godhead is pleased with the living entity because of his devotional service, one becomes a pandita and does not make distinctions between enemies, friends and himself. Intelligently, he then thinks, “Every one of us is an eternal servant of God, and therefore we are not different from one another.”

SB 7.5.13: Persons who always think in terms of “enemy” and “friend” are unable to ascertain the Supersoul within themselves. Not to speak of them, even such exalted persons as Lord Brahma, who are fully conversant with the Vedic literature, are sometimes bewildered in following the principles of devotional service. The same Supreme Personality of Godhead who has created this situation has certainly given me the intelligence to take the side of your so-called enemy.

SB 7.5.14: O brahmanas [teachers], as iron attracted by a magnetic stone moves automatically toward the magnet, my consciousness, having been changed by His will, is attracted by Lord Visnu, who carries a disc in His hand. Thus I have no independence.

Therefore, one should try to rise above the dualities of so called friends and enemies in the material world, and become a samah darshi, he or she who transcends appearances and sees every soul as an eternal servant of Krishna.

In this way, one becomes dear to all, and all are dear to him or her…

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 26th, 2012
25 Unregistered

Vrindavana Chandra used “hate” as opposite of “love”, it doesn’t imply having genocidal tendencies. Hate in English could mean anything, as in “I hate it when it rains as soon as I drive out of car-wash.” Srila Prabhupada did not generally use “hate” in such a way. He, however, used much stronger word “hatred” in the purport quoted above.

In the verse itself there’s word ghrina, not dvesa.

On vaniquotes I found two examples of Prabhupada using the word hate in relation to mayavadis:

Prabhupāda: Now harijana, he has…, Gandhi has degraded the name of harijana to such a position that if somebody comes and if he says, “I am harijana,” immediately we shall hate him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We hate him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because we know there is camar bhangi, he has changed the name, “harijana.”

….

Talking about some disciples of Maharaja Guru-ji:

Prabhupāda: This is not… Better hate to talk with them.

Paramahaṁsa: Better to…

Prabhupāda: Yes, don’t talk with them. So lower-grade men they are, it is useless to talk with him.

Srila Prabhupada’s preferred choice in relation to mayavadi rascals was probably the word “kick”, with countless examples:

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, why are there so many pseudo religions then?

Prabhupāda: There is no religion! This is the only religion.

Guru-kṛpā: Then why do they mingle at all? Why do they even get involved?

Prabhupāda: Therefore we say that one who has no faith in God, he’s a rascal, miscreant.

Guru-kṛpā: But they pretend.

Prabhupāda: Pretend? Kick them! Why you should accept pretension? Then you are a fool also. You say “pretend,” and still, you have to talk about them. That means you are also faithless. Why should you talk about the pretension? Pretension is pretension. That is faithlessness. Sometimes they pretend honest, but he’s a thief. What is this philosophy? Thief is thief. That’s all.

“We worship all worthy sons and servants of God, but we kick on the face of all rascals who claim to have become God so cheaply…”

As soon as somebody says, “I am God,” kick him on his face. “Yes, you are God, I am God. I am the kicking God.”

As soon as one wants to establish his avatarship by jugglery and magic, kick him out, immediately on the face, directly. Kick him. Let the avatāra take steps. I don’t mind. If he’s avatāra, let him kill me, all right. But I shall kick him on his face.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 26th, 2012
26 Unregistered

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati gave a couple of examples of why anger towards offenders of the Lord and His devotees is perfectly aligned with trinad api sunichata principle and, in fact, is necessary for advancement in spiritual life:

“Being pure-hearted and non-envious, Vaiṣṇavas never manifest malice toward anyone, so their display of ‘krodha’ bhakta-dveṣi-jane (anger toward those malicious to devotees) is aimed at the holy activity of bestowing mercy upon atheists”

“The all-auspicious endeavors and behavior of preachers and practitioners of śuddha-bhakti to Gaura-Kṛṣṇa who follow in the footsteps of Ṭhākura Śrī Vṛndāvana, the direct avatar of Śrī Vyāsa, display, on one hand, gross punishment of the fallen averse living entities, and on the other, subtle unlimited compassion for them.”

“…anger shown toward bhakta-dveṣi-jana is a type of bhajana, that persons who consider such an act of bhajana the same as common anger are hellish, and that to claim oneself a servant of the Vaiṣṇavas yet tolerate insults toward the guru is not only a sin, but also an offense that causes ruination in spiritual life…. Hari-bhajana is not possible unless one behaves angrily toward persons envious of Hari-guru-Vaiṣṇavas

Srila Vrindavana Dasa Thakur threatened to kick those who don’t believe Lord Nityananda’s divinity but the principle is the same - mayavadis are the worst offenders of the Lord. It doesn’t mean, of course, that we should go around smashing their heads in.

I’m sorry if one of the highlighted sentences appears to be directed at Kesava Krsna Prabhu, I think it’s a very important warning from our acharya.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 26th, 2012
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How then we should deal with Mayavadi’s or their philosophy?

1. When they visit the temple only to help with festivals etc.

2. When they preach the Mayavadi philosophy to us.

3. If they insult our Acharyas, Lord or devotees?

Should we be tolerant to a certain limit, what is that limit if any?

What is the most expert way to deal in such situations? Perhaps some prepared guideline is available, or someone can prepare it?

How to reconcile controversial topics?

Or should we avoid all discussions on philosophy and just be friends for better understanding? I am confused, I hope the learned devotees can guide me.

Comment posted by bhakta piyush on October 27th, 2012
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Dredging up all those quotes serve to highlight the Vaisnava stance against offenders of the Vaisnavas and the Lord. But they do not promote any kind of ‘hate-vada,’ for in comparison with the aggregate of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, these need to be balanced with our public/preaching postures. Puskaraksha Prabhu has provided such balance.

Nowhere did I ever say that we should tolerate such offences directed at the Lord or His devotees. If the highlighted verse was intended for me on the assumption that I tolerate, then it is unfounded.

Hatred is not a primary emotion of a Vaisnava. It is incidental. Hate is a strong word. The effort put into trying to prop up an incidental emotion is not in line with our acaryas teachings.

Bhakta Piyush posed some questions. The first one asks about people or mayavadis engaging in Krishna’s service by “just” helping to cut vegetables. As if to say, “Is that all?” Please Bhakta Piyush, but devotional service is the most rare and glorious of all human activities. Devotional service is more powerful than the Lord Himself. It is so exalted. If even a single pea pod is added to a preparation that is offered to the Lord, nothing else whatsoever can compete with that. Please associate with wise experienced devotees to help clear up your confusion.

Engaging in Bhakti with selfless love is the primary emotion. Hate does not even figure, except if incidental circumstances arise.

Since I have stated the case for balance in totality of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings, with no substantial rebuttal – bcause there aren’t any – I will no longer participate in this discussion.

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.

Comment posted by Kesava Krsna dasa on October 29th, 2012
29 Puskaraksa das

Dealing with impersonalists on a philosophical basis, I have personaly used this verse from Srimad Bhagavatam:

vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvam yaj jnanam advayam
brahmeti paramatmeti
bhagavan iti sabdyate

Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramatma or Bhagavan. (S.B. 1.2.11)

In this way, we do not have to deny the fact that the Brahman level of spiritual realization exists, as it does.

But, we can point out and explain that there are two other levels , i.e. realizing the presence of God present within our hearts, in the form of Paramatma (while being careful not to think Him to be ourself, i.e. the jivatma) and then ultimately coming to find out and understand from Whom everything emanates:

aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
budha bhava-samanvitah

I am the source of all spiritual and material worlds. Everything emanates from Me. The wise who know this perfectly engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts. (B.g. 10.8)

and then, point out, in the line of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that the third and ultimate level of realization is the most relishable and the most transcendentally blissful.

Besides, Krishna Himself is the source of the impersonal Brahman:

brahmano hi pratisthaham
amrtasyavyayasya ca
sasvatasya ca dharmasya
sukhasyaikantikasya ca

And I am the basis of the impersonal Brahman, which is the constitutional position of ultimate happiness, and which is immortal, imperishable and eternal. (B.g. 14.27)

Srila Prabhupada confirming further in his PURPORT:
The constitution of Brahman is immortality, imperishability, eternity, and happiness. Brahman is the beginning of transcendental realization. Paramatma, the Supersoul, is the middle, the second stage in transcendental realization, and the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the ultimate realization of the Absolute Truth.

Moreover, we have to accept the fact that Mayavadis are followers of Shankaracarya, who is a manifestation of Lord Shiva, who Himself is known to be the greatest Vaishnava. Similarly, buddhists have also been influenced by an Avatar of Krishna in the form of Lord Buddha. So, how could we hate these souls or even their philosophy, as it emanates from Krishna Himself and had been broadcasted as per His trancendental plan?

This is certainly one of the reasons why Mahaprabhu simply smiled, while considering them…

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 30th, 2012
30 Puskaraksa das

This is confirmed by Lord Krishna Himself who declares that everyone follows His path:

ye yathā māḿ prapadyante
tāḿs tathaiva bhajāmy aham
mama vartmānuvartante
manuṣyāḥ pārtha sarvaśaḥ

As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pṛthā. (BG 4.11)

PURPORT
Everyone is searching for Kṛṣṇa in the different aspects of His manifestations. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything, including the particles of atoms. But Kṛṣṇa is fully realized only by His pure devotees. Consequently, Kṛṣṇa is the object of everyone’s realization, and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one’s desire to have Him. In the transcendental world also, Kṛṣṇa reciprocates with His pure devotees in the transcendental attitude, just as the devotee wants Him. One devotee may want Kṛṣṇa as supreme master, another as his personal friend, another as his son, and still another as his lover. Kṛṣṇa rewards all the devotees equally, according to their different intensities of love for Him. In the material world, the same reciprocations of feelings are there, and they are equally exchanged by the Lord with the different types of worshipers. The pure devotees both here and in the transcendental abode associate with Him in person and are able to render personal service to the Lord and thus derive transcendental bliss in His loving service. As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Kṛṣṇa helps also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead; consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality. Some of them, who are not firmly situated even in the impersonal existence, return to this material field to exhibit their dormant desires for activities. They are not admitted into the spiritual planets, but they are again given a chance to act on the material planets. For those who are fruitive workers, the Lord awards the desired results of their prescribed duties, as the yajñeśvara; and those who are yogīs seeking mystic powers are awarded such powers.

…/…

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 30th, 2012
31 Puskaraksa das

…/…

In other words, everyone is dependent for success upon His mercy alone, and all kinds of spiritual processes are but different degrees of success on the same path. Unless, therefore, one comes to the highest perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, all attempts remain imperfect, as is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam (2.3.10):

akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ
tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena
yajeta puruṣaḿ param

“Whether one is without desire [the condition of the devotees], or is desirous of all fruitive results, or is after liberation, one should with all efforts try to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead for complete perfection, culminating in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.”

SRILA PRABHUPADA PATITA PAVANA ki JAYA

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on October 30th, 2012
32 Unregistered

Dear Kesava Krsna Prabhu,

I don’t know what “hate-vada” is, who professes it and in what form.

This article is titled “Hate Mayavada to Love Krishna” - note “mayavadA”, not “mayavadis”, meaning hate the principle but not the persons.

The point of the article is to provide supporting quotes, which has been done. Later you asked to provide quotes from Srila Prabhupada using the word “hate” in relation to mayavadis. That has been done, too.

I think that all the set goals have been accomplished, everything that has been asked has been provided. Whether it convinces you or the devotee who posed the original request is another matter, I don’t think convincing people was Vrindavana Chandra Prabhu’s original purpose.

Re. devotees who preach with “hate” - you said numerous times that ‘hate” is a material emotion. I don’t know who does that, where, and when, but just in case I quoted a passage from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati that anger towards offenders of the Lord (and that includes mayavadis) is a type of bhajana and “that persons who consider such an act of bhajana the same as common anger are hellish” - meaning we should be careful with judging behavior of other devotees as materialistic when they are trying to preach and to protect our siddhanta.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 30th, 2012
33 bhakta piyush

As per comment no 28.

“Bhakta Piyush posed some questions. The first one asks about people or mayavadis engaging in Krishna’s service by “just” helping to cut vegetables. As if to say, “Is that all?” Please Bhakta Piyush, but devotional service is the most rare and glorious of all human activities….Please associate with wise experienced devotees to help clear up your confusion.”

It is odd that you infer all of the above when all i asked was “When they visit the temple only to help with festivals etc.” It simply means that their only business would be to help out with a festival, how you interpreted it was completely off. Perhaps you should also practice what you have been trying to preach all this time. I could literally feel the negativity in your comment, that must be also because I am just an inexperienced bhakta I guess.
My possible misinterpretation of this whole agenda is that you are trying to paint some devotees who preach “strongly” as “bad”. I am sorry if you think that is wrong or inexperienced. I humbly exit from this discussion for the lack of maturity.

Comment posted by bhakta piyush on October 30th, 2012
34 Unregistered

we have to accept the fact that Mayavadis are followers of Shankaracarya,..

Most mayavadis these days do not follow anyone, ever since “advent” of Ramakrishna Paramahamsa studying Vedanta and following strict regulative principles has become unpopular. Most modern day mayavadis accept some bogus, “self-realized” guru, reject the notion of following parampara and reading shastra, and want to achieve unity with God by practicing what outwardly might even look like bhakti.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on October 31st, 2012
35 Puskaraksa das

” Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, māyāvādī kṛṣṇe aparādhī: one who thinks that everything is māyā instead of thinking that everything is Kṛṣṇa is called an aparādhī, or offender. Although the Māyāvādīs, impersonalists, are offenders at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they may nonetheless be counted among the siddhas, those who have realized the self. They may be considered nearer to spiritual perfection because at least they have realized what spiritual life is. If such a person becomes nārāyaṇa-parāyaṇa, a devotee of Lord Nārāyaṇa, he is better than a jīvan-mukta, one who is liberated or perfect. This requires higher intelligence.”

From Srila Prabhupada’s purport to S.B. 6.14.5

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on November 1st, 2012
36 Unregistered

Although the Māyāvādīs, impersonalists, are offenders at the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, they may nonetheless be counted among the siddhas, those who have realized the self.

This might also be the reason for hatred and fear expressed in the verse from Chaitanya Charitamrita quoted earlier - they know what spiritual life is, they know who Krishna is, yet they consciously choose to ignore Him and everything that a devotee holds most dear in his life.

I think it’s natural to feel some insecurity when our chosen path is not appreciated by self-realized persons, as Prabhupada calls them in this purport.

We haven’t seen Krishna yet and they say that they are unimpressed - this doubt might eat away at our hearts, we have legitimate reasons to be fearful here, we are not paramahamsas yet.

Btw, the rest of the SB 6.14.5 purport is much much less flattering to those who think Krishna’s form is material than what Prabhupada said in the beginning.

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on November 2nd, 2012

Comments are closed. Please check back later.

 
 
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