The Woman as Guru: Words of Silence

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By Abhaya Mudra Dasi

There has been a discussion in circles of devotees regarding whether a woman can be a guru. Women are not famous for expressing themselves. They usually find it more convenient to reflect the ideas of their counterparts or their environment. They do not like to be disturbed by extraneous complications while performing their duties. For this sort of non-participation and offering half answers the world accuses them of double talk. So what would the energies of the Lord, which are all female, really say if they had time to talk on the guru issue? Although their position is ultimately silent, women do have an undeniable presence in the life of everyone.

 

Can the right of women to give birth be denied? Since time immemorial women have been mothers and they will continue to be mothers in the future. Although a minority of women may have not volunteered for motherhood, most of them have felt or will feel a great desire to have a baby. Nobody ever wanted you so much as your mother. She is the one that gave you your precious body which, according to Shrimad Bhagavatam, is your key to self-realization:

 

‘‘From the womb of Matrika, the wife of Aryama, were born many learned scholars. Among them Lord Brahma created the human species, which are endowed with an aptitude for self-examination.” (SB 6.6.42)

 

Now in this life we are supposed to become spiritually aware. How much do you understand this? Are you convinced of the truth of this statement? Whoever uses the resources of the Earth, who eats the food produced of Mother Earth and who drinks the milk of mother cow without acknowledging his debt is nothing more than a hypocrite. Those who refuse to acknowledge the value of this body given and nourished through the sacrifice of so many mothers should quit his body at once.

 

The word Rama means ‘‘the reservoir of all pleasures,” and the final syllable ma means ‘‘reservoir”. Our mother, our maas, represents different reservoirs of the Supreme Lord. Each one of your mothers—your natural mother, Mother Earth, mother cow—are essentially Shri Krishna’s energies. Anyone who takes advantage of the energies of the Supreme Lord should pay tribute to his mother. So how much do we owe our mothers? Just as women are silent, so it is the law of karma. We may be surprised to discover how much we owe later. Shrila Prabhupada says,

 

‘‘The Shrimad Bhagavatam lists seven mothers: our own mother, the wife of our teacher or spiritual master, the wife of a brāhmana, the wife of the king, the nurse, the cow, and the earth. We are indebted to all seven of these mothers.” From: A Second Chance

 

Even though the service of the mother appears to be mandatory and she performs it uncomplainingly; a mother cannot abandon her duties once she has undertaken them. But that does not mean the silence of the mother should be taken as an invitation to exploit her selflessness. Today in our world exploitation of resources is approaching its final crescendo. Civilization is on the brink and the world must make some crucial choices. Should society continue the dark road deeper into the depths of ignorance by killing its mothers—exploiting the earth, slaughtering the innocent cows, and destroying the family unit—then very soon there will be severe karmic retributions. It is now or never—the world must become Krishna conscious.

 

Rampant destruction of the resources that maintain us means killing our very selves because we still have material bodies. This body as well as all the resources it depends on is meant for the service of Shri Krishna. That means paying obeisances to all of the energies of the Supreme Lord. This is our ticket to liberation. Shri Krishna is not pleased when we abuse our mothers just as the Lord killed Kamsa to avenge the demon’s persecution of His parents. In Shrimad Bhagavatam 10.44.37-8 we find:

 

‘‘Grabbing Kamsa by the hair and knocking off his crown, the lotus-naveled Lord threw him off the elevated dais onto the wrestling mat. Then the independent Lord, the support of the entire universe, threw Himself upon the King. As a lion drags a dead elephant, the Lord then dragged Kamsa’s dead body along the ground in full view of everyone present. O King, all the people in the arena tumultuously cried out, ‘Oh! Oh!’”

 

Although he was killed personally by Shri Krishna and received impersonal liberation, Kamsa did not achieve a personal relationship with the Lord. For the devotee seeking the Lord’s eternal shelter through devotional service, the offer of liberation is unattractive.

 

Like a silent mother, the energies of the Lord may not be heard to say just how much they have been exploited by hypocrites. And in a like fashion, there are hardly any women who are writers or artists who contribute anything to the world of expression. The Earth may appear not to protest when she is drilled for oil or her oceans and rivers used as dumps for poisonous substances. The mother cow seems to not protest when her children are stolen from her for veal or her milk runs dry and she is sent for slaughter.” A mother will not protest when a child abuses her. In this way a mother’s tolerance is considered a form of stupidity by the arrogant. Sometimes a simpleton is called a ‘‘dumb cow” by those who do not understand the silent forebearance of the worshipful gomata.

 

Mothers do not protest their service, but rather they find pleasure in their duties. Mothers are engaged in maintaining all living entities. From preparing the daily meal to providing milk to nurture a newborn’s body, women sustain life. And the more the living entities exploit their mothers the more the value of mothers’ resources becomes depreciated. Today women are no longer called mothers. Left unprotected by ravenous men, they are exploited by their own families, ill-treated in their places of worship, abused at their workplaces and some are even harmed by their husbands. And for that they must tolerate being called names other than mother, names that are too vulgar to repeat. In this way the world has forgotten its position through its obsessive exploitation of Shri Krishna’s energies. And by failing to acknowledge the Lord’s representatives, the devotees bearing the message of Shri Krishna sankirtana, an unrepentent world risks dooming itself through its failure to acknowledge its obligation to the Lord.

 

We must not forget that the first guru of anything born in this world is that entity’s mother. It is the mother who teaches us how to walk, how to talk, how to be independent. A mother walks the path of death when she gives birth. How glorious became King Yayati when he offered his flesh to a mere pigeon in order to save its life! And how much more glorious is one’s mother who gives a part of her body for her child? She sacrifices some of herself so that another may live and grow. In the beginning of life, we are no different from pigeons; mere babies without a name or past history. As common as a mother’s sacrifice is, it is no less glorious than King Yayati.

 

There is no need to officially declare that a woman should be a guru because that is her original position as mother. When you have called a woman “mother” or “Matajee” you have accepted her as your guru and as a representative of the nourishing energy of the Supreme Lord. By trying to fathom the many meanings that are contained within the word “mother,” we can understand a little of the mother’s sacrifice (and how she is connectd to the resources of the energy of the Supreme Lord). There is no need for futile wrangling, vainglorious discussions or hot tempered arguments whether women should be gurus or not. It is as senseless as arguing whether women should give birth or not. It is better to learn how to respect the mothers of the world and that is the last word. In that way the curse of Mother Durga in the form of karma that is silently waiting will not visit us.

 

Have you ever wondered why karma is nearly impossible to explain? Why do we suffer? What hidden deeds you we performed? The source of action is very difficult to pin down because it is lost in the smoky mists of a very dim past. But now by the grace of Shri Krishna’s pure devotee we can understand our situations. We have failed to respect the energies of Shri Krishna properly and to engage them in His eternal devotional service.

 

As Chanakya Pandit advises,

 

ka chinta mamajivane harir vishvambharo gayate

na ched arbhaka-jivanaya jana-nestanya katha nirmame

itity alochya muhur muhur yadupate lakshmipate kevala

tvat-padambhua-sevanena satata kalo maya nayate

 

Why should I be concerned for my maintenance while absorbed in praising the glories of Lord Vishvambhara, the supporter of all? Without the grace of Lord Hari, how could milk flow from a mother’s breast for the nourishment of her child? Repeatedly thinking only in this way, O Yadupati, O Lakshmipati, all my time is spent in the service of Your lotus feet. (Shri Chanakya Niti Shastra 10.17)

 

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1 Sita Rama 108

Mataji,
You say,”There is no need to officially declare that a woman should be a guru because that is her original position as mother. When you have called a woman “mother” or “Matajee” you have accepted her as your guru and as a representative of the nourishing energy of the Supreme Lord.”
It seems you are saying that simple addressing a woman a mother is equal to accepting her as a diksha guru although she is not allowed to give Diksha. I do not follow your logic there, Mataji.
I agree that hot tempered arguments are not productive; however, avoiding a dialogue when those emotions exist will never solve the conflict. So I am expressing the way I must see the issue, based on the way I understand the concept of what a bonafide Diksha Guru is. I invite others explain why they must see it in the way they do.
I have a certain frame in which I am evaluating this discussion. I was initiated in 1980, before the reform. Around that time, of the 11 original Guru’s, a few had been removed and a few had been added. Later, a major upheaval occurred when, within a short period of time, several of the Guru’s fell down. At this point the GBC, under duress from pressure by senior devotees, made a radical change. The new idea was that any devotee in good standing could be a Guru. If a Guru Disciple relationship naturally developed, then the devotee could petition for the ability to give Diksha.
We were then indoctrinated into the idea that this concept, of any one being a Guru based on the desire of someone to be a disciple, along with general qualifications, was self evidently, and absolutely, the only right way to do things.
This was actually a big change from my original understanding, but I accepted it. From this vantage point the restriction of women to be Dikhsa Guru’s is an arbitrary limitation that is irreconcilable with the concept that anyone can be Guru. This is not a hot tempered argument or a politicking. A restriction on women giving diksha is contradictory to the principal by which I accept male devotees as bonafide Diksha Guru’s.

Comment posted by Sita Rama 108 on November 27th, 2012
2 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Dear Sita Rama Prabhu,

I know that you have some ongoing interest in the topic. Thank you for coming along.

The main idea of the article is to compel an understanding about the invaluable role of the mother. Giving her respect as our first guru is only right. The addressing of women as “matajee” is often perceived as an insult which is contrary to the meaning imbedded in the word.

If we want to come to some conclusion whether a woman diksha guru will be filling a gap in our society оr her role as such is really necessary we should start from the concept of the mother and her role as a guru of her children.

A mother can expand her qualifications of rising devotee children to others and take on the initiation role in society once her offspring are grown up. That is possible if the disciples perceive her as caring and compassionate mother whose only duty is to nourish them to spiritual maturity.

And when there is war with Maya every soldier counts. Women can and should become initiating gurus for the sake of winning the war. In peaceful times they can stick to their allotted duties. But unfortunately we are not living in peaceful times; the world in on the verge of utter distinction.

If devotees are able to give respect to devotee women then the necessary protection that the women’s body needs will be there. In such conditions qualified women can also fight effectively the war with Maya by becoming initiating gurus and delivering the fallen conditioned souls back to Godhead. Just see how many devotees are there in the world and how many living entities are waiting to be delivered. Wouldn’t we wise to use all of our power and energies and try to help the billions of lost souls?

Your servant,
Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on November 27th, 2012
3 Sita Rama 108

Mataji,
I agree and, as usual, will add some things. First I feel we need to acknowledge a general concept. Lord Caitanya says a sudra can be a Guru. A sudra Guru may not have managerial abilities. So the qualification to be a practical leader and qualification to be a spiritual leader are separate issues. It should be obvious that the question of women managers in ISKCON is a totally separate issue from women being Diksha Guru’s
Lord Caitanya says ones needs sufficient brains to join the Sankritana Movement. A human must have brains enough to see the need to transcend material existence. But Lord Brahman himself does not have the mental power to understand Krishna. Some say women have smaller brains, but that difference is infinitely small in comparison to the difference between a human brain and Lord Brahma’s. The conclusion is that no one can understand Krishna with material intelligence. It comes from the mercy of Krishna only, and that is available to any human being who strives for the unlimited mercy of Krishna
A grown son may take responsibility for caring for his mother in ways that a father does not require. Although the mother is then in a subordinate position, on the material level, the son always, naturally, accepts his mother as superior. Similarly I see no reason why a women who is teaching a disciple spiritual values cannot be seen as superior although in her external position she may be dependent in ways a male devotee can renounce.
I believe a change in the culture which produces a clear understanding of the virtue of motherhood would have a positive effect on the level women feel satisfied in that role. Women as well as men need to understand its importance. However a diksha guru must accept that position only for the interest of the disciple. Being convinced that the Guru accepts that role exclusively for the spiritual benefit of the follower is a primary duty of a perspective disciple. According to our current paradigm this evaluation is in the hands of the perspective disciple. The chance that men or women will accept the role of Diksha Guru to fulfill their own desire is always a possibility. But it is up to the disciple to judge that. If they judge a woman to be purely motivated why should there be a restriction? That is not rhetorical (however I have not yet heard a convincing reply).

Comment posted by Sita Rama 108 on November 28th, 2012
4 Sita Rama 108

I, like you, feel very strongly that we need to be more aware of the full meaning of mataji and the level of respect that goes along with it. I am disturbed when I find papers on varnashrama which describe women’s roles exclusively in terms of a chaste wife.
At one time I was planning to write a paper including empirical research on what it takes to be an effective mother. Basically it means teaching the child with the utmost concern for the child’s wellbeing as opposed to simply being concerned with controlling the child for one’s own peace of mind. The spirit of sacrifice produces intelligence in this regard. A good mother does not only improve the child in terms of good behavior but studies have shown IQ levels are increased by good mothering. In fact several studies showed evidence that children brought up by their own mothers tended to fair better in general intelligence than those reared in early child care centers. This research was eventually stifled due to social/political pressures. My conclusion is that those who are really dull and unable to perceive anything abstract, like intelligence, can only see mothers as diaper changers. Thus they consider a mother a menial sudra. Contrary to this, even a mother in a sudra family must be a teacher.
Real respect can only come from understanding how much that respect is warranted. Otherwise calling someone a mother is an empty platitude. So in some cases there may be grounds to consider the epithet an insult. But the answer is not to conclude it is an insult per se, but to develop a culture of genuine respect.

Comment posted by Sita Rama 108 on November 29th, 2012
5 Paramananda das

“Actually, Dhruva Maharaja’s mother, Suniti, was his patha-pradarsaka-guru. Patha-pradarsaka-guru means “the guru, or the spiritual master, who shows the way.” Such a guru is sometimes called siksa-guru. Although Narada Muni was his diksa-guru (initiating spiritual master), Suniti, his mother, was the first who gave him instruction on how to achieve the favor of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is the duty of the siksa-guru or diksa-guru to instruct the disciple in the right way, and it depends on the disciple to execute the process. According to sastric injunctions, there is no difference between siksa-guru and diksa-guru,and generally the siksa-guru later on becomes the diksa-guru. Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja’s diksa-guru.” (Bhag. 4.12.32 purport)

Comment posted by Paramananda das on November 29th, 2012
6 Paramananda das

with one stroke of his pen Srila Prabhupada has defeadet the idea that women can be Gurus:

..Suniti, however, being a woman, and specifically his mother, could not become Dhruva Maharaja’s diksa-guru.” (Bhag. 4.12.32 purport)

Comment posted by Paramananda das on November 30th, 2012
7 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Dhruva Maharaja lived in Satya Yuga or the Golden Age. The difference between Satya Yuga and Kali Yuga is like the summer and winter seasons. During Satya Yuga all good qualities of human beings were inevitably present whereas in Kali Yuga hardly any good qualities decorate humankind. In Satya Yuga the people practically equaled paramahamsas while now in the Iron Age practically everyone has become a mleccha.

Women are considered shudras and they may have preserved their qualities better than men which makes them the last soldiers to fall in the battle with the demonic forces of Kali Yuga. When men arbitrarily abandon their family and social responsibilities, at such times it is the women who are left behind to take on the duties of both men and women alike.

The situation in Kali Yuga is so desperate, so perilous, that it merited special mercy which is why Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu descended with His tsunami of mercy. Shrila Prabhupada says that He is golden on the outside, and blue on the inside, so in this way Lord Shri Krishna appeared to celebrate his female counterpart Shrimati Radharani. He brought the message that without Her mercy no living entity can experience the highest and purest love of Godhead. Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is both Shrimati Radharani and Shri Krishna combined. The Supreme Lord has shown us wayward living entities that both aspects of His personality have to be respected and worshiped to achieve pure devotion unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

So much did Shri Krishna appreciate His consort Shrimati Radharani that He appeared in Her mood (in order to understand Her devotion). If the Lord Himself can appreciate His female counterpart why shouldn’t we as His devotees also be appreciative? Shri Krishna and Shrimati Radharani expand simultaneously in the spiritual and material worlds. Shrimati Radharani is the compassionate aspect of the Supreme Lord and this aspect of Her personality is also present in lesser (minute) degrees in Her own expansions.

cont –>

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 2nd, 2012
8 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

There are women who have proven that they are capable of taking on more responsibility not because that is their desire but due to some emergency situation. And Shrila Prabhupada was among the first to appreciate the capabilities of lady devotees who were a little bit qualified in this way. He gave not only diksha to women but His Divine Grace also blessed qualified female devotees with second initiation. Where in shastra is that mentioned? Gayatri mantra was given to vaishyas, kshatryas and brahmanas but not to shudras. But by his causeless mercy Shrila Prabupada made mlecchas into gurus. If you think those boys who came to Shrila Prabhupada were anything but shudras raise your hand. Now in the 21st Century some of these qualified mleccha mahajanas have become exemplary brahmanas and gurus.

The mother of Dhruva, the exalted Queen Suniti, was not a mere woman. She was a kshatriya which means she knew was acquainted with various kshatriya sciences as well as shastra. She possessed unlimited wealth and managed countless servants. Shrila Prabhupada explained what was the situation in Satya Yuga. But he himself initiated women and even trained some of them to personally perform the function of gurus personally by leading class, giving public lectures, writing books and articles, and public preaching accompanied by the distribution of sacred literature. His Divine Grace never pointedly ordered that women should not be gurus. In fact His Divine Grace repeatedly emphasized that all his disciples should become gurus. And if someone is inspired spiritually by an elderly woman and wants to be initiated by her, it is my contention that preventing such a circumstance constitutes nothing less than a form of spiritual violence. After all, according to the rules of initiation it is the guru who is supposed to have the supreme authority over the initiation process. Nowhere it is stated that a qualified guru should be prevented from initiating a disciple. That relationship must exist between the qualified Shri Guru and the qualified disciple. True, there shouldn’t be a “woman guru” because a guru knows that he or she transcends this material body.

cont–>

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 2nd, 2012
9 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

In Kali Yuga, it appears as though qualified gurus may have come in the bodies of females. And however much this subject is debated amongst us, it is only a matter of time before such things are recognized. There are ideas whose time has come despite a flurry of opinions to the contrary, and the ascent of spiritual masters who happen to have been born as women appears to be one of them. As Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says:

kiba vipra, kiba nyasi, sudra kene naya
             yei krsna-tattva-vetta, sei ‘guru’ hay
                           
 
   “Whether one is a brahmana, a sannyasi or a shudra–regardless of what he is–he can become a spiritual master if he knows the science of Krishna.”

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 2nd, 2012
10 Unregistered

Abhaya Mudra mataji wrote:

Dhruva Maharaja lived in Satya Yuga or the Golden Age. The difference between Satya Yuga and Kali Yuga is like the summer and winter seasons. During Satya Yuga all good qualities of human beings were inevitably present whereas in Kali Yuga hardly any good qualities decorate humankind. In Satya Yuga the people practically equaled paramahamsas while now in the Iron Age practically everyone has become a mleccha.

I fail to see your logic here. Most of the Bhagavatam contains episodes from yugas other than Kali so does that mean that we should jettison 3/4 of the Bhagavatam? Where does any acarya say that because it took place in Satya yuga it should not be followed in Kali yuga. It looks to me that you are trying to warp the teachings to fit your own bias.

Another thing, in Satya yuga women were paramahamsa in comparison to kali yuga, so if they could not be diksha guru then, how then in a much more degraded kali yuga they can now become diksha guru when they have degraded. This makes absolutely no sense at all. According to you the more degraded the better suited a person is to taking up higher positions.

Comment posted by Mohana Mohini dd on December 2nd, 2012
11 Sita Rama 108

Using our material logic, we might say, “ oh in previous ages it was almost exclusively brahmans who were Guru’s so in Kali Yuga one must certainly at least be a brahman. But that is not what we are told by Lord Caitanya. He is the Avatara for Kali Yuga and he explicitly orders all to become Guru’s. Do we find this stated by another Avatara or Acharya in a different age?
SB 11.5 36 Those who are actually advanced in knowledge are able to appreciate the essential value of this age of Kali. Such enlightened persons worship Kali-yuga because in this fallen age all perfection of life can easily be achieved by the performance of saìkértana.

Comment posted by Sita Rama 108 on December 3rd, 2012
12 Unregistered

Re #11

Dear Sita Rama Prabhu,

Hare Krsna. I am too obtuse and not understanding what you are trying to get at. Could please explain more clearly.

MMdd

Comment posted by Mohana Mohini dd on December 3rd, 2012
13 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Thank you, Sita Rama Prabhu for the nice explanation you have given to Mohana Monini dd. I would have written something very similar: Consider that as great the Satya Yuga was it did not have the mercy of Lord Chaitanya.

——————————————————————————————————————

…And Shrimad-Bhagavatam is like the body of the Supreme Lord. The Bhagavata Purana progresses gradually from the feet to the lotus face of Shri Krishna. It is meant for spiritual progress. When someone has finally arrived at the 10th canto he or she can taste the higher forms of devotional service. This devotion can only be experienced by giving up the dharma allotted to one by society and thus surrendering his or her life solely to Shri Krishna.

“O dear Krishna,” they continued, “You are the supreme instructor. There is no doubt about it. Your instructions to the women to be faithful to their husbands and to be merciful to their children, to take care of homely affairs and to be obedient to the elderly members of the family, are surely just according to the tenets of shastras. But we know also that all these instructions of the shastras may be observed perfectly by keeping oneself under the protection of Your lotus feet.” (Krishna Book, The Rasa Dance: Introduction)

In our society there are devotees on different levels. According to ones level of realization there are instructions and duties that have to be performed for further progress on the path of devotion. Everyone has to be treated according to their level of devotional service not according to their body. Thus some devotee women need to be guided while others have progressed and can guide others. Same thing applies to devotees in male bodies. It is only natural and personal for a devotee to see everyone as individual.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 4th, 2012
14 Unregistered

I thought Mataji Abhaya Mudra conclusively proved the supreme sacrifice and position of motherhood. I thought the conclusion would be “stay as mothers, there’s no better service that this” but somehow they are encouraged to become diksha gurus. Why? What’s wrong with being mothers? Is it suddenly not glorious enough?

Comment posted by Sitalatma Das on December 4th, 2012
15 Akruranatha

“I fail to see your logic here. Most of the Bhagavatam contains episodes from yugas other than Kali so does that mean that we should jettison 3/4 of the Bhagavatam?”

I think Sita Rama answered well. I do not think you are too obtuse, Mohana Mohini. It may be, however, that if you get too caught up in “debate mode” you may not listen sympathetically to those whose opinions differ.

The Bhagavatam does not say that women cannot be gurus. It does not say that only those born in Brahmana families can be gurus. Great lady devotees like Queen Kunti and Devahuti and the wives of the Vedic brahmanas and Rukmini Devi and the gopis are revealed in Bhagavatam as gurus of the whole world.

In the passage regarding Queen Suniti, Srila Prabhupada says she was factually Dhruva’s siksa guru, and that there is no difference between siksa and diksa guru, and generally the siksa guru becomes the diksa guru later on. However, because Suniti was a woman and specifically Dhruva’s mother, she could not become his diksa guru. Srila Prabhupada did not elaborate further on why being a woman and specifically his mother disqualified her from serving as diksa guru, but she was in fact his guru nevertheless.

Abhaya Mudra and Sita Rama suggest things may be different in our current time, place and circumstance. Society was different for Suniti and Dhruva Maharaja. We have to keep the message pure but to deliver it in a practical way to the people of today’s world.

While it is true that the examples of human society in previous ages more closely resemble the eternal religious principles of Varnasrama dharma as established by Lord Krishna, it is also a fact that Srimad Bhagavatam emphasizes the glories of unmotivated and uninterrupted devotional service over and above the religious duties of righteous humans. It is not that good moral behavior is derided — it is expected that only pious people take up devotional service with determination, and that those who walk the path of bhakti generally observe the rules of morality — but throughout the Bhagavatam pure bhakti is glorified as far more important than proper behavior according to the ordinary rules of dharma. This relationship of bhakti to varnasrama dharma has to be properly understood.

Not that we should abandon the dharma sastras or our duty to teach scientific Vedic ethics and sociology, but our priority is Sankirtan, which can be unconventional, especially in the modern, international world.

Comment posted by Akruranatha on December 4th, 2012
16 Unregistered

Hare Krsna, please accept my humble obeisances and respect

I know one thing that everything what we say should be proven by shastra.

If initiated devotee says that woman is more equiped in kali yuga than a man than please put forward the quota. Similarly if one says that by addressing my mother I call her automatically guru, again where is reference or is needed to give more details what kind of guru. My mother teaches me a lot definitively and I love her a lot but I realized she is not the one who takes me to the spiritual world.

I am not writing the post to speak about who can be or not a diksa-guru, it is not on my opinion it depends on sastra and acaryas teachings.

I am writing here to express some confusing thoughts on related posts on dandavats, I have read the article where womem are presented as those who in older age do not fall prey to intriques of maya. There was posted that man-guru may fall down with air plane maid or whoever and whatever. And woman-guru was presented as loving care personality with full protection in kali-yuga for herself and disciples. Sorry I see many old women falling down with old man. It is generally known fact that even old woman is likely to have again an experience of feelings of romance. It is just one example. Also a false ego is with woman body or man body as well. My point is that all bodies in the material world are conditioned!! (except liberated ones). I never have read in our sastras that woman body is better to be a guru than a man body..?

So what happen when spreading the idea that man-guru may fall easy, but woman-guru is steady. First thing what may happen is that many young aspirants shall got fear “oh man-guru will fall down” it may cause unwilling unconscious disrespect and distrust to self-realized persons just because owning the man body. The second thing what may happen when a woman-guru is stressed as protected from maya is that when she will fall down than the aspirants shall lose trust to whole idea of gurus.

And also there is many times said how men leave the responsibility. Yes, I can see. On another side there are also men which take the responsibilities of others. For example my father grew up children of his and of man who became drunkard. Till today we are all together. Also when woman is supported by government there are many men who makes the law for them and provides the subsidy. What question of war it is also men who fights not only for his family.

Comment posted by Mahaksa Das (KCS) on December 4th, 2012
17 Unregistered

Or just look at the police man, so many danger situations, any woman can call police “I am in danger..” and some man will come. He has his own family, children, wife..he risks for others his own life. And family takes the risk with him. Afraid, do shall father come back, mum?

I do not want to entangle more into but just look around. We all need each other in proper responsibilities otherwise it will not work. So there are definitively who left they responsibilities (man or women) and there are those who are willing to take more responsibilities than they must (man or women).

I would rather keep my mind on transcendental qualities of guru than trying to find out material condition which is better for guru. We can see for example even mode of goodness is conditioned by pride and in this way causing fall down. Therefore we are suggested to rise up to pure goodness.

Comment posted by Mahaksa Das (KCS) on December 4th, 2012
18 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

We have got a situation in this material world, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. But śāstra says, “One should not become a guru, one should not become a father, one should not become a mother, one should not become a relative, one should not become a friend,” in this way, he says, “if one cannot give relief to his friend or son or disciple, relief from the impending birth, death, old age, and disease.” This is real contraceptive method. If you think that “If a child is born, I shall educate him in such a way that this birth will be his last birth. Next he is going to back to home, back to Godhead,” then produce a child. Otherwise don’t produce. This is spiritual contraceptive. This is real father and mother. Otherwise a dog is also becoming a father. The such kind of father-becoming is not recommended in the Vedic civilization. Now, just become a real father to give the real benefit to the son. Then you become a father. 
Lecture Bhagavad-Gita 9.4 — Melbourne, April 22, 1976

There would not be difference between preaching to one’s child or one’s disciple if the mission is to deliver them from repeated birth and death. According to ones position, no matter what it is, one should preach. If one can deliver a family it is glorious and if one can deliver a nation it is also glorious.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 5th, 2012
19 Unregistered

Dear Mother Mohana Mohini ,
Thank you for that observation. I do not think I am off the topic but I have generalized it, instead of making it more specific. Even if you continue to feel women should not become gurus, you may agree with the point I am trying to make, which is beyond that.
Lord Caitanya has emphatically stated that regardless of one’s social position anyone can be a Guru if they know the science of Krishna. The instruction- that those who are generally forbidden to be gurus in previous ages can become gurus in the most fallen age, may seem illogical to some. But first of all we have to accept this as the teaching of the Avatara. Then it would be nice if we try to understand it. I believe it means that being a Vaisnava Guru, SHOULD not require a change in social status. We equate being a Guru with being powerful and independent, when all that is actually required is that one perform the duty they are given, chant Hare Krishna ,and be dependent of the Mercy of Lord Caitanya. Whether one is materially high or low, dependent or independent, powerful or not powerful does not matter. Until we embrace that concept we will confuse being on the top socially with having the top- most understanding of the science of Krishna. This is confusing two diametrically opposed concepts. And one thus confused is not qualified to be either a Guru or a disciple. Krishna Consciousness is not a material subject matter! It is Kali Yuga, if it takes material intelligence, or any other material qualification to be a guru, guess what? No one is qualified! But even if it is not Kali Yuga, Lord Brhama’s brain is not big enough to understand Krishna. Krishna can only be understood by the His Mercy and we do not invoke that mercy through any type of material qualification. It can only be invoked by becoming fully dependent on Him.

Comment posted by Sita Rama dasa 1962 on December 7th, 2012

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Home » The Woman as Guru: Words of Silence
 
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