ONLY FEW FALL — Eternally liberated never fall, with footnote

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Patita Pavana das: In scripture the words sat, anadir, ananta, nitya can also be non-literal.

“When the sun-god and moon-god exposed the plot of wicked Rahu to steal the celestial nectar, a lasting (sasvata) enmity was sealed among them, which endures to the present day.” (Mbh. 1.17.8)*
“The five sons of King Vasu each became kings in their own right, all five establishing permanent (sasvata) dynasties bearing their names.” (Mbh. 1.57.30)*
“Defeated by his old friend Drona, King Drupada diplomatically solicits from him his ‘constant (sasvata) favor’ (Mbh. 1.128.13)*
“The brahmana host of the Pandavas at Ekacakra condemns the incompetent king of the region who cannot provide the people with sasvata safety from harm.” (Mbh. 1.148.9)*
Jaratkaru assures his forefathers that he will marry and beget a son who will preserve the family line and keep the forefathers in heaven:
“Surely for your deliverance offspring will arise in that [marriage]. May my forefathers enjoy, having reached the permanent status (sasvata-sthanam)!” (Mbh. 1.13.28)*
When King Indra of heaven convinces the earthly King Vasu to give up the attempt to take Indra’s position, Indra promises that by sticking to his earthly duties, Vasu will eventually attain to the sasvata worlds:
“Ever protect the dharma that will take you to higher worlds, engaged and with attention, for being so engaged in dharma you shall then attain the pious, everlasting worlds (sasvatan lokan).” (Mbh. 1.57.6)*
The sage Mandapala attempts to enter heaven on the strength of his pious credits, but he is turned back by the gatekeepers with these words:
“These very worlds are concealed from you because of [your lack of] progeny. Beget progeny and then you shall enjoy these everlasting (sasvatan lokan) worlds.” (Mbh. 1.220.13)*
After begetting good sons, the same Mandapala then offered this prayer to the fire-god, Agni, when the blazing inferno of Khandava threatened to consume his young sons:
“Offering obeisances unto you, the sages go with their wives and sons to the everlasting destination (sasvatim gatim), won by their own work.” (Mbh. 1.220.25)*
“After having ruled the citizens according to dharma for endless years (sasvatih samah), King Yayati, son of Nahusha, accepted a very ghastly old age that ruined his beauty.” (Mbh. 1.70.33)*
The Rakshasi Hidimba refused her hungry brother’s order to kill the Pandavas, reasoning that:
“If they are killed (and eaten), there will be but a moment’s satisfaction for my brother and me. But by not killing them (and thus marrying Bhishma), I will enjoy for endless years (sasvatih samah).” (Mbh. 1.139.16)*
When the Pandavas are defeated at dice, the wicked Duhsasana declares that Pritha’s sons have now been driven to hell for a long, virtually unlimited time, and that they are bereft of their happiness and kingdom, and ruined for endless years (sasvatih samah). (Mbh. 2.68.5)*
“Having achieved the worlds of the pious doers, and having dwelt there for endless years (sasvatih samah), a fallen yogi takes birth in the home of pure and opulent persons.” (Bg. 6.41)*
“One should eat very frugally and should always (sasvat) remain secluded so that he can achieve the highest perfection of life.” (Bhag. 3.28.3)*
“O Lord, with a corpselike body that is always (sasvat) fearful, we bear the burden of the dreamlike happiness of kings.” (Bhag. 10.70.28)*
“O almighty Lord, we shall no longer desire a mirage-like kingdom that is to be attentively served by a material body that is always (sasvat) declining, and is the source of sufferings.” (Bhag. 10.73.14)
“The Pandavas have been driven into hell for an endlessly long time-dirgha-kalam anantakam. They have been deprived of their happiness and their kingdom. They are lost forevermore.” (Mbh. 2.68.5)
“As a friend of Krishna, I alone with my chariot, crossed over the ocean of the Kuru army, an invincible ocean with no end [of the distance] to its far shore (ananta-param).” (Bhag. 1.15.14)
(Bhag. 5.5.17), Lord Rishabhadeva warns His sons that a blind materialist does not see his own unlimited (or unending) misery (ananta-duhkham).
Sukadeva Gosvami announces the benefits of the pumsavana vow, which is said to cause “unlimited satisfaction (ananta-triptih) for the forefathers and demigods” (Bhag. 6.19.27).
“Formerly, O King, that very Supreme Lord expanded the reputation of Rudra, after that god’s fame had been struck down by Maya Danava, who possessed unlimited (ananta) mystic power.” (Bhag. 7.10.51)

In Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.10.37, Uddhava says to Lord Krishna:
“The same, single entity is said to be eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. That is my confusion.”

yo jayamanah sarvesham
tejas tejasvinam ruca
svayopadatta dakshyac ca
karmanam daksham abruvan
tam praja-sarga-rakshayam
anadir abhishicya ca
yuyoja yuyuje ‘nyams ca
sa vai sarva-prajapatin

anadih—the firstborn, Lord Brahma

After being born, Daksha, by the superexcellence of his bodily luster, covered all others’ bodily opulence. Because he was very expert in performing fruitive activity, he was called by the name Daksha, meaning “the very expert.” Lord Brahma therefore engaged Daksha in the work of generating living entities and maintaining them. In due course of time, Daksha also engaged other Prajapatis [progenitors] in the process of generation and maintenance.

Lord Brahma anadi, “the beginningless one.”

the demigods are amara immortal

Srila prabhupada also uses these words non-literal.

anadi karama-phale, which means that these actions and reactions of one’s activity cannot be traced, for they may even continue from the last millennium of Brahma’s birth to the next millennium.” (Bhag. 3.31.44, purport)

“Eternally conditioned means we do not know when we have been conditioned like this. ……. Many, many Brahma’s life. Not only one Brahma’s. There are so many Brahmas changed, and we are conditioned. So therefore we are called eternally conditioned.” (Cc. lecture, January 9, 1967, New York)

anadi karama-phale. Anadi. Anadi means… Adi means the creation. Creation… before creation, I [become] contaminated [with] this desire, iccha-dvesha samutthena.” (Bhag. lecture, January 1, 1975, Bombay)

Our comment: He simply explains here anadir as before the adi, beginning or creation.

Constitutionally every living entity, even if he is in the Vaikuntha Loka, has chance of falling down. Therefore the living entity is called marginal energy. But when the falldown has taken place for the conditioned soul is very difficult to ascertain. Therefore two classes are designated: eternally liberated and eternally conditioned. But for arguments sake, a living entity being marginal energy, he can’t be eternally conditioned. The Time is so unlimited that the conditioned souls appear to be eternally so, but from the philosophical view he cannot be eternally conditioned. Since we cannot trace out when we have become conditioned, there is no use of arguing on this point. (letter 69-10-27)

Our comment: Nitya-baddha is not nitya, eternally conditioned. All souls are spiritual and will one time have had all the material enjoyments in the material world, because it is a limited, inferior area, and go back to Godhead. Nitya-mukta can also change.

…there are millions and millions of liberated souls who are engaged in Krishna. They never misuse their independence. And we small quantity, we misused our independence. We wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.
Bhaktijana: But there are, there are many…?
Prabhupada: …liberated souls. They are never conditioned. They never become conditioned. Yes?
Devotee: You mean they never were conditioned at any time or…
Prabhupada: Eh?
Devotee: You said there were millions of souls…
Prabhupada: Yes. They were never conditioned. They were never conditioned, never conditioned. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. We are only simple few, this material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population. ..Bhaktijana: How could we make a poor choice if we were part and parcel of Krishna? How could we have chosen the material world?
Prabhupada: Oh, because you have got independence. Don’t you see so many students come. They go away again. Yesterday Kirtanananda went to call Ranchora. He said, “Oh, I have forgotten this!” So you can forget. There is another student. He was also our student, Wally. “Oh, you can go immediately!” Suppose if you… “Oh, I don’t care for this Krishna consciousness Society. Who calls you? You can go.” That independence is there. We can misuse.
Bhaktijana: But Krishna will always be there if we want to go back?
Prabhupada: Eh? Krishna is always prepared to accept you. He’s always prepared. But because He has given us independence, we misuse it and we fall under the clutches of maya. That is our misfortune. We create this misfortune, and we can create our good fortune. “Man is the architect of his own fortune.” So if you become Krishna conscious, it is to your good fortune. If you become maya conscious, it is to your bad fortune. You are the creator.
Bhaktijana: When the souls that were never conditioned at all…, do they also have the independence?
Prabhupada: Yes, but they have not misused. They know that “I am meant for Krishna’s service,” and they are happy in Krishna’s service.
Bhaktijana: Could they ever misuse it?
Prabhupada: Yes, they can misuse it also. That power is there. (Lecture, CC Adi 7.108, February 18, 1967)

Our comment:
He says many times never fall, but then a little later he says they can fall, and these few, rare exceptions are the one’s here. Never, with a footnote. ‘No one’ is not a categorical absolute.

Devotee (2): If one is fortunate enough to revive his natural position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling down again? Like, if an entity is fortunate enough to revive his natural constitutional position in the spiritual sky, how can he keep from falling…
Prabhupada: How your Nixon is dragged down? How your President Nixon is dragged down? He was in the exalted post, and why he was dragged down?
Devotee (3): They dragged him down.
Prabhupada: Yes. He was forced to come down. Why?
Tamala Krishna: He broke the rules.
Prabhupada: Anyone, even in this world or spiritual world, he has got the potency of coming down by misusing his little independence. It is nothing like that, that if you become president, you are secure. If you are not perfect, then you will be dragged down. Or if you think imperfectly… The formula is that in the spiritual world everyone is engaged in the service of the Lord. There is no other conception as in this material world everyone is engaged to serve his senses-he likes something, and he is engaged for that purpose. That service is there, but it is service to himself, his senses. But in the spiritual world there is no such thing as giving service to the senses. Simply giving service to the Lord. That is spiritual world. So as soon as you think that”Why shall I give service to Krishna? Why not become independent?” you fall down immediately. So there is potency of thinking like that.
krishna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare
pasate maya tare japatiya dhare
As soon as one forgets the service of the Lord and he wants to become himself Lord, immediately maya will capture. This maya means this material world. (Lecture, Atlanta, March 2, 1975)

They’re fallen because they wanted to gratify their senses. They cannot remain in Vaikuntha world. In the Vaikuntha world, only the one, the Supreme Lord, His senses should be satisfied not anyone’s else. That is called bhakti. (Bhag. lecture, Los Angeles, May 20, 1972)

But if you remain eternally in the instruction… And if you fall from the instruction, how you can remain eternal? You have to stay on the platform. Then eternally you are safe. If you fall down from the platform, then it is your fault. Just like we are all in the Vaikuntha planet. Now, we wanted to enjoy this material world. We have fallen down, just like Jaya-Vijaya. Now we are trying to go back again. Therefore we say,”Go back to home, back to Godhead.” (Bhag. lecture, Melbourne, May 22, 1975)

…this material world is just like prison house, prison house, we living entities, we have come here as punishment.

krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare
nikata-stha maya tare japatiya dhare

Now we are under the control of this external energy, material energy. We have become controlled, just like we become controlled by the prison authorities when we are criminals, not ordinarily. Ordinarily we are free. Those who are not within the walls of prison house, they are free. They are acting wherever they like they are going, but within the law. Similarly we have got freedom. There are living entities, their number is greater. Nitya-mukta, ever liberated. They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets. Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means eternally liberated. They never come down in this material world. And we are nitya-baddha — ever conditioned, eternally conditioned.
Eternally conditioned means… We cannot be eternally conditioned, because we are part and parcel of Krsna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated. But because we wanted to imitate Krsna, we wanted to become Krsna.. in the spiritual world, Krsna is the only enjoyer. Ekam eva aditiyam(?). Aham, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. Sarva-loka, not only of the Vaikunthalokas, planets, but these planets also. Everywhere, Krsna is the supreme proprietor. Therefore he is the supreme enjoyer. We cannot be enjoyer. We each can simply be servitor; that is our natural position. Just like a dog, when it serves a nice master, he’s happy. Otherwise, it is street dog. Nobody cares for it. Street dog. A street dog has no position. Sometimes they are killed. Similarly, when we live under the full protection of the Supreme Lord, that is our healthy condition, that is our real life. And as soon as we give up this position to be subordinate, to be predominated by the Supreme Lord, then we are bewildered. We are thrown into this, under the control of this material nature, and according to our work we get different bodies…We are jivera svarupa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109], eternally servant of Krsna. So as soon as we accept it and engage ourself in the service of the Lord, that is our liberated position. Then we, again, we become nitya-mukta. We revive our original condition of life. Original condition means ever liberated. We can go anywhere. When we are actually liberated, when we are not conditioned by this material body, that spiritual spark, as I explained several times, revives all godly qualities. Sarva-ga, we can go anywhere. Krsna is the supreme person. His power, his liberty is unlimited. Our power and liberty is limited. So when we use our power and liberty within that limit, we are called nitya-mukta, ever liberated. If we want, artificially, more power to imitate Krsna, then we are gone. … Now we are under the control of this external energy, material energy. We have become controlled, just like we become controlled by the prison authorities when we are criminals. Ordinarily we are free. Those who are not within the walls of prison house, they are free. They are acting freely, wherever they like they are going, but within the law. Similarly we have got freedom. There are living entities, their number is greater. Nitya-mukta, ever liberated. They live in the spiritual world, Vaikuntha planets…And we are nitya-baddha-ever conditioned, eternally conditioned…
We cannot be eternally conditioned, because we are part and parcel of Krsna. Our natural position is ever liberated, eternally liberated. But because we wanted to imitate Krsna, we wanted to become Krsna…Krsna is the supreme proprietor. Therefore He is the supreme enjoyer”. (Bhag. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

Our comment: ‘’again, we become nitya-mukta … in the vaikuntha planets’’
We were nitya muktas on the Vaikuntha planets and became nitya baddha.

We analyzed SB 3.3.26 purport “nitya siddhas never fall.”
This refers to the svarupa-sakti of the Lord, not to the tatastha-jivas. As the Jaiva dharma explains chapter 15 Vrajanatha’s question was “I want to know if the cit-sakti has created the jiva by giving it the marginal nature…” The Babaji’s answer is “No, cit-sakti is the complete potency of Krishna. Whatever it manifests are all nitya-siddha objects.” The Babaji is using nitya-siddha to refer exclusively to the sakti-tattva souls. This is clear from his accompanying statement: “The four types of sakhis of Sri Radha are nitya-siddha; they are kaya-vyuha manifestations of Sri Radha, who is the personification of the cit-sakti.” This is the standard definition of the sakti-tattva devotees. They are the direct personal expansions of Radha or Krishna. They are distinct from the jiva-sakti devotees, including even the nitya-mukta ones. For example in the Panca-tattva, Gadadhara represents the sakti-tattva devotees whereas Srivasa represents the jiva-tattva devotees. Nitya-siddha can refer to the sakti-tattva souls.
According to Srila Vasvanath Cakravarti Thakura commenting on 3.3.28 the devata jiva souls portions separated from the Yadus eternal associates svarupa-sakti. These jivas went to Prabhasa and returned to svarga. The svarupa-sakti Yadus remained in Dvaraka in unmanifest forms.

Alternatively, nitya-siddha jiva souls rarely fall, The spiritual world is unlimited. The material world is a limited area. It is like a cloud in the spiritual sky which gets regularly wound up and rolled out by Maha-Vishnu. If it would be unlimited how He could do that.
Therefore the souls in the material world are in comparison to the unlimited amount of jivas in the spiritual world only a few. For a soul up there, there is less than 10-50 chance of falling. 10-50 according to the rules in mathematics means zero chance of falling or no one falls.

We have some quotes on that.

– Dr. John Mize: Did all the souls that were in the spiritual sky fall out of the spiritual sky at once or at different times, or are there any souls that are always good, they’re not foolish, they don’t fall down?
Prabhupada: No, there are… Majority, 90%, they are always good. They never fall down.
Dr. John Mize: So we’re among the 10%.
Prabhupada: Yes. Or less than that. In the material, whole material world all the living entities they are… Just like in the prison house, there are some population, but they are not majority. The majority of the population, they are outside the prison house. Similarly, majority of living being, part and parcel of God, they are in the spiritual world. Only a few fall down.

‘’Only a few’’

– And we small quantity, we misused our independence. We wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.
… We are only simple few, this material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population. What is there? Suppose in New York there is a prison house. Oh, what may be the number? A few thousand maybe. But here, millions. Similarly, the liberated souls are millions; we are only few thousands, or hundreds. .. We are thinking this universe is very great. It is nothing in comparison to the whole creation of the Lord. You are seeing only universe, but there are millions of universes like this. …This is only a part of Krishna’s creation. One devotee of Lord Caitanya, requested, “My dear Lord, You have come to deliver all the fallen souls. You please take all the conditioned souls of this universe, and if You think they are not competent, they are sinful, You can give me all the sin to me. I shall suffer for them, but You kindly take.” So this is the desire of a pure devotee, that “All may go with Krishna. Let them become liberated. I shall suffer all their…” Now, Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied that “Suppose I keep your request. I take these, all the living entities of this universe. Do you think, is there any loss of this material world? It is just like a one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds.” So this universe is just like one mustard seed in one big bag of mustard seeds. Can you count how many mustard seeds are there in a big bag? So the idea was that Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied that “Even this universe is delivered fully, oh, there is a big bag of mustard seeds. It is only one grain.” There are so many conditioned souls, and these conditioned souls are only insignificant in comparison to the liberated souls. Just imagine what is the quantity of liberated souls.
Our comment : ‘’The population of prison house is *nothing* in comparison to the whole population’’

– we are put into this prison house, all these rebelled souls…. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that this universe is just like a mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds. You just imagine in a bag how many mustard seeds you can pack. Unlimited. You cannot count. Mustard seed within a bag, two and a half mounds weight. Can you count? No, it is not possible. Similarly all these universes, material universes, each of them is compared with a mustard seed, and this universe which we experience is one of the mustard seeds within the bag of mustard seeds….. Just like in the jail, the population in the jail is very small in comparison to the population of the city.
Similarly, within this material world, all the living entities, they are all conditioned, very limited number. The unlimited number are there in the spiritual world.
(Bhag. lecture, Mayapur, June 20, 1973)

– If we want, artificially, more power to imitate Krsna, then we are gone. …just imagine how many liberated living entities are there. …. Just like in the jail, the population in the jail is very small in comparison to the population of the city.

In the same section of the Bhagavatam in SB 3.3.18 purport Srila Prabhupada states “…..the entire manifested cosmic creation, which presents a chance for the conditioned souls to revive their eternal relationship with the Lord and thus go back to Godhead, back home.”
Back to Godhead, back home is back to the Head God that is Krishna. Maha-Visnu is the purusa-avatara, an expansion of the Head God, meant for creating the material creation. Back to Krishna where we came from. Therefore, the nitya siddha jivas of 3.3.26 became conditioned and can revive their siddha deha.
Revive means it was there and it has to come or brought to health, strength or consciousness, to be recovered, come or brought back into use, activity, fashion. Stage again a play etc. that has not been performed for some time. So explains the Oxford dictionary.

Then in the SB 3.4.25 purport we find again this word revive “…..revival of his self-knowledge is essential.”
In SB 3.5.1 purport “The Lord is ever infallible, whereas the living entities are prone to fall under the illusory energy.” We, souls are fallen from home, Krishna’s planets, because of our “fallible nature.”
And in SB 3.5.3 the verse states “…..the fallen souls who are averse to the sense of subordination to the Lord.” And in the purport we read “devotees are compassionate towards the fallen…..bringing souls back to Godhead, back to home.”
Oxford dictionary states “fall: come or go down from force of weight, loss of balance, descend or drop. Loose one’s position, office or power, sin, do wrong. Example: Eve tempted Adam and he fell.”
Fall away: desert or leave, disappear, vanish, fall for, be attracted to, fall in love with, allow oneself to be persuaded by, esp. unwisely fall into, be trapped by.
Fall (noun) decrease in value, quantity, intensity, loss of innocence or state of goodness.
Fallible: liable to make mistakes.
In SB 3.5.3 “…..the ultimate destination of going back home, back to Godhead.”
In SB 3.2.2 “Human life is meant for reviving one’s eternal relation with the Lord,.. awakening this dormant instinct of the living entity…..revive one’s sense of God consciousness…..”
And SB 3.2.11 purport “If one takes a fish from the water and puts it on the land, it cannot be made happy by any amount of offered pleasure. The spirit soul can be happy only in the association of the supreme living being, the Personality of Godhead… the innumerable Vaikuntha planets in the brahma-jyoti sphere of the spiritual world, and in that transcendental world there is an unlimited arrangement for the unlimited pleasure of the living entities…..the Lord appears just to attract the conditioned souls back to Godhead, back home to the eternal world.”
Can it be more clear. The soul is as the fish out of the water, out of the Vaikuntha planets and has to go back to that home, where he came from. And later “…..go back with Him to His kingdom…..go back home, back to Godhead.”
And SB 3.2.12 purport “In the Vaikunthalokas the Lord is merciful toward the liberated or nitya-mukta living entities, but in His pastimes in the mortal world He is merciful even to the fallen souls who are nitya-baddha, or conditioned forever.” The nitya muktas can fall. As nitya baddhas are not forever fallen and can rise back to the spiritual planets. Nitya-baddha is not so nitya or eternal. So, nitya-mukta can also be ending or changing.
As we read in the SB 3.2.30 “Love of Godhead is dormant in every living entity, and the entire process of devotional service unto the Lord is meant for awakening this dormant, eternal love of Godhead…..go back to the Goloka Vrindavana planet in the spiritual sky…..or the Vaikuntha planets. Get back, get back, get back, to where you once belonged,” the Goloka Vrindavana planet or Vaikuntha planets. We were nitya-muktas there, became nitya-baddhas and can become nitya-muktas again.
And in SB 3.2.27 “to go back home, back to Godhead.”
SB 3.5.10 “…..reviving their God consciousness, now forgotten in the conditional life of material existence…….revive the people’s sense of God consciousness.”
According to Oxford dictionary to forget means fail to remember or recall, lose the memory of, neglect stop thinking about, put out of one’s mind.
SB 3.5.24 “…..dormant in forgetfulness…..go back to home back to Godhead…..enliven the sleeping conditioned souls… take part in His eternal rasa-lila” Back to the rasa-lila.
SB 3.5.26 “The mistaken living being, out of forgetfulness of this original condition of life…..remind one…..situated in the same spiritual life as the Lord.”
SB 3.5.29 purport “A pure living entity in his original spiritual existence…..called nitya muktas…….The material creation is meant for rebellious souls who are not prepared to accept subordination under the Supreme Lord.”
The nitya-mukta originally in the Vaikuntha planets have become rebellious

In our western languages we also use the terms forever, always, eternal, never also in a figurative, non-literal sense.
Nitya-baddha jivas also will have an end to their conditioned state; thus it is not nitya-baddha eternally conditioned. When the soul gets materially exhausted and has experienced all of matter (which is a limited area) he naturally inquires “athato brahma jijnasa.” (Srila Prabhupada conversations 12-12-1970) (SB 10.51.53) Similarly, nitya-muktas are sometimes not fixed forever in mukti.

SB 3.5.31 purport “forgets his constitutional position as an eternally subordinate part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead and wants to be happy independently,
SB 3.5.42 “…..go back home, back to Godhead.”
SB 3.5.44 “…..go back to Godhead.”
SB 3.5.51 “the vishnu-tattvas, the jiva-tattvas and the sakti-tattvas (the Personalities of Godhead, the living entities and the different potential energies)—are different offshoots from the same one Supreme Lord…Some of the jivas, however, wanted to lord it over material nature in imitation of the lordship of the Personality of Godhead…due to misuse of this independence…the nitya-baddhas, the conditioned living entities, a chance to improve, and those who take advantage of such transcendental knowledge gradually regain their lost consciousness of rendering transcendental loving service to the Lord.”
The nitya-baddha was a nitya-mukta who now regains his love for the Lord, and becomes nitya-siddha once again.

We stop here SB 3.3.26 is clear.

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1 Gauragopala dasa

Ones fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana is due to free will and choice not maya, there is no material cause for ones fall down from Goloka Vrndavana

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down”.

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom” Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974

Srila Prabhupada - “Those who are in the Brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down” Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on June 18th, 2014
2 Gauragopala dasa

By stating things like we cannot fall from Krsna’s presence, you obliterate (destroy) free will. What is the meaning of free will if it cannot be misused? In this way we CAN fall down from Vaikuntha however, most ‘choose’ not to

Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on June 18th, 2014
3 Puskaraksa das

Letter to Jagadish dasa, Los Angeles, April 25, 1970

“Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down?

The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and this minute independence may be utilized rightly or wrongly at any time, so there is always the chance of falling down by misuse of one’s independence.

But those who are firmly fixed up in devotional service to Krsna are making proper use of their independence and so they do not fall down.

Regarding your second question, have the conditioned souls ever seen Krsna? Were they with the Lord before being conditioned by the desire to lord it over material nature?

Yes, the conditioned souls are parts and parcels of the Lord and thus they were with Krsna before being conditioned. Just as the child must have seen his father because the father places the child in the womb of the mother, similarly each soul has seen Krsna or the Supreme Father. But at that time the conditioned souls are resting in the condition called susupti which is exactly deep sleep without dream, or anesthetized state, therefore they do not remember being with Krsna when they wake up in the material world and become engaged in material affairs.

I hope this will satisfy your questions.”

Your ever well-wisher,
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 12th, 2014
4 Gauragopala dasa

Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.

Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.

Paramahamsa - “If we want”.

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.
Lecture by Srila Prabhupada May 13, 1973

Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on July 13th, 2014
5 Gauragopala dasa

Acyutananda: ‘But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.””

Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return.

Acyutananda: He can return

Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that.… That misuse is the cause of our falldown. Room Conversation February 19, 1976 Mayapur

Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on July 13th, 2014
6 Gauragopala dasa

Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and THIS MINUTE INDEPENDECE MAY BE UTILIZED RIIGHTLY OR WRONGLY AT ANY TIME, SO THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE OF FALLING DOWN by misuse of one’s independence.

Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. THESE SPIRIT SOULS AND ALL SPIRIT SOULS ARE COMING FROM VAIKUNTHA, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. THERE IS NO “ NEW” SOUL. “New’’ and “old’’ are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth so how there can be new soul?

Jagadisa Prabhu asked Srila Prabhupada if those in the passive relationship were more likely to fall. The letter from Srila Prabhupada of 02/27/1970 reads:

“Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, THE SOUL MAY FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS INDEPENDENCE. But HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA IS NEVER LOST, SIMPLY FORGOTTEN BY THE INFLUENCE OF MAYA SO IT MAY BE REGAINED OR REVIVED by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; THE PROCESS IS ONE OF REVIVAL ONLY, NOTHING NEW”.

Comment posted by Gauragopala dasa on July 13th, 2014
7 Puskaraksa das

“The living entity, although Brahman by nature, has the desire to lord it over the material world, and due to this he falls down.

In his constitutional position, a living entity is above the three modes of material nature, but association with material nature entangles him in the different modes of material nature, goodness, passion and ignorance. Due to the association of these three modes, his desire to dominate the material world is there.

By engagement in devotional service in full Krsna consciousness, he is immediately situated in the transcendental position, and his unlawful desire to control material nature is removed.

Therefore the process of devotional service beginning with hearing, chanting, remembering–the prescribed nine methods for realizing devotional service–should be practiced in the association of devotees. Gradually, by such association, by the influence of the spiritual master, one’s material desire to dominate is removed, and one becomes firmly situated in the Lord’s transcendental loving service.”
(B.g. 14.27 - Purport)

Comment posted by Puskaraksa das on July 15th, 2014

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Home » ONLY FEW FALL -- Eternally liberated never fall, with footnote
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