The Great Moon Landing Hoax

8,587 Views / EMail This Post / Print This Post / Home » The Great Moon Landing Hoax

By Patita Pavana das Adhikary
Ed., The Astrological Newsletter

Surprisingly, there are those who, while claiming to believe in the words of the pure devotee, have also swallowed NASA’s lunar launch ruse. In responding to a 2009 article on www.dandavats.com entitled “Shrila Prabhupada Was Not Alone To Claim that the Moon Landing Was a Hoax,” Varnadi das expressed such doubts. He wrote, “I respect Shrila Prabhupada’s viewpoint on the whole Moon landing thing and even agree with it in relation to its shastric roots. That, however, does not necessarily mean that I reject the Moon landings. This is where I draw the line. I want to be true to both Shrila Prabhupada and myself.” The article’s author, Shriman Payonidhi das, replied in a way that sums up a true disciple’s feelings: “You can keep your faith in science. I’ve put mine in Shrila Prabhupada,” And: “My spiritual master said they didn’t go and that is what I believe.” It is noteworthy that Payonidhi Prabhu’s short article inspired the most-ever comments for an article on that site, over 150.
A recent article on Dandavats entitled “Astronomical Models of Lunar Position,” and some of the ensuing comments, seem to lend credence to modern science. This article will therefore simply review the words of our World Acharya in the matter of the Moon launch. From the few statements below–there are dozens more–we can see that Prabhupada approached the self-ordained lettered mob like a prizefighter in a bare knuckle tournament. And though he was outnumbered 1,000’s to 1, he always scored a knockout in every match. The pure devotee’s simple logic defeats intellectual condescension shrouded in pseudoscientific jargon with one fell swoop!
In preparing this article, we are indebted to Shriman Hari Sauri Das for his encyclopedic A Transcendental Diary (www.lotusimprints.com). His volumes are nothing less than shastra; they are the person Bhagavat in literary form. We are also beholden to Shriman Siddhanta Das for his extensive Memories of Shrila Prabhupada series, both his DVDs and volumes (www.monsoonmedia.org). Each remembrance of each disciple reflects a different luster of Shrila Prabhupada’s multi-faceted personality. Generations to come will be beholden to these two chroniclers who in exceptional times have captured the essence of an exceptional personality and empowered representative of Lord Shri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

***
From the Fifth Canto, SB

 
“Above the rays of the sunshine by a distance of 100,000 yojanas (800,000 miles) is the Moon, which travels at a speed faster than that of the Sun. In two lunar fortnights (one month) the Moon travels through the equivalent of one samvatsara (a year or twelve rashis) of the Sun. In two and a quarter days it passes through a month of the Sun (one rashi). And in one day it passes through a fortnight of the Sun.” [SB 5.22.8]

 
Bhaktivedanta Purport to 5.22.8

 
When we take into account that the Moon is 100,000 yojanas, or 800,000 miles, above the rays of the sunshine, it is very surprising that the modern excursions to the Moon could be possible. Since the Moon is so distant, how space vehicles could go there is a doubtful mystery. Modern scientific calculations are subject to one change after another, and therefore they are uncertain. We have to accept the calculations of the Vedic literature. These Vedic calculations are steady; the astronomical calculations made long ago and recorded in the Vedic literature are correct even now. Whether the Vedic calculations or modern ones are better may remain a mystery for others, but as far as we are concerned, we accept the Vedic calculations to be correct.
-His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
***
“They Did Not Go to The Moon”

Malati devi dasi

One morning [at 7 Bury Place, London] I went up to Prabhupada’s door and it was a little ajar. I pushed it to look inside and Prabhupada called out, “Malati, come in, we are watching TV.” So I went in and they were watching the Moon landing. I sat down with them and we watched them land on the Moon. Immediately afterwards Prabhupada turned off the television and declared, “They did not go.” He looked at the TV and said it “This is an idiot box and it has made idiots of us.”

Of course that statement “they did not go” became quite controversial. There were devotees, including his servant Purushottama, who cited that statement as reason for departure from devotional service. They simply could not accept Shrila Prabhupada’s statement. Then, two years ago, I found a newspaper with a headline “They Did Not Go to the Moon.” It was written by two former NASA scientists. And in it they showed the picture of the Moon landing and gave various evidences as to why they did not go to the Moon so that an ordinary person could comprehend it.

First, the spaceship did not create the huge crater that should have been there in the Moon’s dusty surface. The picture showed a completely smooth surface, and neither were there any footprints.

Second, the shadows of the spacemen were aligned in the wrong direction for the time of day that this so-called picture was taken.

Third, if you looked in the back there was this metal apparatus as though it were a stage light. And it became clear, once you were informed of it. You could actually see that there was a stage light.

And the scientists declared the location to be either Arizona or Nevada. So, although Shrila Prabhupada needs no vindication, he was certainly vindicated. And I wonder if those people who doubted his words have come back.
-Memories of Shrila Prabhupada (DVD # 47)

 

King Kong and the Lunar Hoax

Mana-mohini devi dasi

In the late 60’, the time of the so-called Moon landing, Prabhupada (told my husband Shridham) that when he was a small child his father took him to the cinema to see a movie about a big gorilla. Shridham said, “King Kong, Shrila Prabhupada?” Prabhupada’s eyes got real big and he said, “You have seen?” And Shridham said, “Oh yes, everybody knows about King Kong.” Shrila Prabhupada said, “In this movie it appeared as though King Kong was climbing the Empire State Building and swatting airplanes, but we know that that’s not true. The clouds that the airplanes were going through were probably cotton. They airplanes were toys and the buildings were toys, and even the gorilla was not real. So in this way they can very easily make it look as though they have landed upon the Moon when in actuality we know that they didn’t.”

Then he went on to explain the motivations behind this. It was due to the government wanting to instill a feeling of patriotism and national pride in the public because they would soon be raising taxes substantially on the American people. And sure enough within a few weeks, spread all over the newspapers was a giant tax increase. And Prabhupada said, “Yes, this is why they said they landed on the Moon.”
-Memories of Shrila Prabhupada DVD (#50)

All entries to follow are from Hari Sauri das’ A Transcendental Diary:

Blazing Fire Surrounded by Ice: That is the Description

Again he attacked the scientists, criticizing their endeavors to go to the Moon. The Vedas give an account of the formation of the universe, a much different story than what the scientists tell us. “They have simply made false propaganda. They cannot go there. So because the atmosphere is different… There is also blazing fire surrounded by ice. That is the description. I am speaking from the description. And therefore at night it is so pleasing. You have got experience. Fire coming through ice, the rays, that is very pleasing. Therefore sunshine is making the whole thing very hot and the moonshine making it pleasing. So God’s arrangement is so nice that everything is going on nicely. There is brain behind it. Why there is sunshine, why there is moonshine, everything is described. You’ll read in the Shrimad Bhagavatam. Moon is the cause of vegetation in all planets; and they say there is no vegetation, it is simply dust. So we have to believe it? And when you present actual fact it is mysticism or mythology. Anyway, we are not concerned with their statement. Our process is to know things from the shastra. Sadhu shastra guru vakya cittete koriya aikya. Our process is deductive, not inductive. We take knowledge, just like this Shrimad Bhagavatam written by Vyasadeva under the instruction of his guru, spiritual master, Narada.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 2
1 June 1976 (Honolulu) p. 225-6

* * *

“Play for You is Death for Us”

Of course, the scientists also came under Prabhupada’s critical scrutiny. Now the latest thing is the Mars probe. Since the Moon is no longer interesting, after so much expenditure for no result, Shrila Prabhupada asked why such scientific exploration at the expense of these taxpayers was allowed to go on.

Radhaballabha suggested it was because they consider it “a very noble cause to increase knowledge.” By use of a short fable Prabhupäda illustrated the plight of the taxpayers. “Some frogs were there, and children were throwing stones. Then the frogs appealed, ‘Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?’ ‘No, we are playing.’ ‘So what is play for you, it is death to us.’ So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on. We are playing, making some scientific research, and who will pay for that? You. You work hard in the factory and pay tax. This is civilization. ‘You pay tax, and we spend it as we like.’ Frivolity. This is going on. This is the government of Kali-yuga. What can you do?

“‘What is play to you is death to us.’ And ‘Never mind. You die. We play.’ They have already spent so much money, Moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock–satisfied. Again, the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the Moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?”

Radhaballabha told him that after the interviews in Los Angeles the newspapers quoted him as saying that they did not go to the Moon. They also printed his Sunday-Moon-day logic. Shrila Prabhupäda was happy to hear it. He issued his challenge afresh. “Nobody can answer that. The common sense. Can any one of you answer why Sunday first and Monday next? Even Svarupa Damodara has not answered. Any scientist here who can answer why Sunday first and Monday second?”

Janahlada dasa hazarded a guess. “I’m not a scientist, but I always thought that the ancients thought that the Sun was first because without telescopes or light-measuring instruments it was bigger and it looked closer.”

“That’s a fact.” Prabhupada’s affirmative response told him that it wasn’t just because it looked that way. “Sunday is first, and Monday–Moon is beyond Sun. If they accept that nobody can approach Sun, then how they can approach Moon? In calculation, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and if the Moon is situated ninety five million miles, then how they can go in four days? These are my questions. They have not been answered. It takes at least seven months. And they went in four days, and the man’s mother … His photograph was there. She said, ‘At last my son has gone there.’ You have seen that photograph? I have seen it. Mother was satisfied. This is going on.”

Pusta Krishna read on. When he got to text nineteen Shrila Prabhupada had a few more things to say about the materialistic scientists. The verse described the fate of the demons. “Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life.”

Prabhupada explained that even if one doesn’t accept there is a God, he is still subject to a superior force. “This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. ‘You are very sly to spend others’ money in Moon excursion. Now you become a fox.’ So who can check it? Here it is stated, tan aham dvishatah kruran. So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. You cannot check God’s law, so how you can say that there is no God?
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
28 June 1976 (New Vrindaban) p. 91

* * *
“Photograph You Can Take Anywhere”

A little later Prabhupada and I talked about the Moon landing. I made the point that they will always try to claim some success or benefit because they have to get grants. Shrila Prabhupäda was very clear about it despite the propaganda in the newspapers. “From our estimation it is failure. They have not gone there.”

I said, “They have to say it’s a success. Just like this Mars thing. If they can land a spaceship that takes a few photographs, supposedly of Mars, then that’s considered a success.” “Photograph you can take anywhere,” Prabhupada said dismissively.

I agreed “Yes.” But still I was puzzled, and so I asked him what he thought was really going on. “Could they, or are they actually sending these spaceships to another planet, or…?”

“That they know,” Prabhupada told me, not wanting to speculate. “According to our calculations, they have not gone. Therefore false propaganda. They cannot go.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
28 June 1976 (New Vrindaban) p.101

* * *

“Fools and Rascals Believe Them”

The conversation started out with more critique on the Mars probe. We supplied some details, culled from the newspapers and as always, Shrila Prabhupada was entirely skeptical about what he termed as a childish attempt and a complete waste of money. He had said as much ten years ago, he told us, when they so-called went to the Moon. Now, he said, there is no more talk of the Moon yet so much money was spent. As far as he was concerned, they never went. He was only surprised that people so readily accept the scientists’ speculations. He laughed and said we were fools and rascals for believing them.
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
1 July 1976 (New Vrindaban) p.110

* * *
Shrila Prabhupada Announces the Mayapur Planetarium

Shrila Prabhupada met with Yadubara dasa and his wife, Vishakha dasi, along with Svarupa Damodara, Rupunuga and Brishakapi Prabhus at about four thirty. Yadubara and Vishakha are expert photographers and Prabhupada gave them a special assignment. “I wanted both of you to take various detailed photographs of that Capitol.” “The Capitol Building.” Yadubara nodded. “For what purpose, Shrila Prabhupada?”

“We shall have a planetarium in Mayapur,” Prabhupada told him. “To show spiritual world, material world, and so on succession of the planetary systems, everything. A building like that. We are acquiring three hundred and fifty acres of land for constructing a small township to attract people from all the world to see the planetarium… You take all details, inside, outside. That will be nice.”

He relaxed his asana for a moment, beads clicking invisibly between the fingers of his cloth back in -covered hand, the maha-mantra on his lips, “Hare Krishna Hare Krishna…”
He turned to Svarupa Damodara. “And you prove that Sun planet is first. It is stated in the Bhagavatam.” He has repeatedly brought this subject up for discussion during his travels. And whenever he does so, he invariably says that Svarupa Dämodara Prabhu has not answered him on it. Now he was able to address to him personally on the issue. Svarupa Dämodara gave a little laugh. “I was going to inquire about that. The order, Sunday, Monday, whether it has to do anything with the distance.”

“Distance, whatever it may be. But the Sun is first, then Moon, then Mars, then Jupiter, like that. One after another. Otherwise, why Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, like that?”
Yadubara asked if the planets were ordered according to their distance from the earth.
“Yes,” Prabhupada said, and he gave his calculations. “According to Bhagavatam the Moon is situated 1,600,000 miles away, up, to the Sun, upper. According to their calculation, 93,000,000 miles, sun is situated from the earth. And if the Moon is plus 1,600,000 then it becomes 95,000,000. It takes at least seven months at the speed they are going, 18,000 miles per hour. So how they have gone in four days?”
He put forth another of his arguments. “They have brought some sand. Such a brilliant planet which is illuminating the whole universe, and they brought sand. All bluff.”
Svarupa Damodara said he and the other members of the Institute would have to study it very carefully.
“All bluff,” Shrila Prabhupada repeated.
Slightly puzzled, Yadubara wondered whether the earth-to-the-sun distance Shrila Prabhupada was using, 93,000,000 miles, was from the Shrimad-Bhagavatam, since it is the distance given by modern astronomers.
“It is about,” Shrila Prabhupada told him. “The whole diameter [of the universe] is four billions. And sun is situated almost in the middle.”
He paused for a few seconds and then stated deliberately, “It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the Moon. Neither they’ll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it.” Svarupa Damodara began, “But their scientists would be mad…”
“They are mad already,” Shrila Prabhupada declared easily. “They’re talking all nonsense. Already they’re mad.” Svarupa Damodara mentioned that the scientists were studying the rocks from the Moon.

Shrila Prabhupada reminded us that they are admitted to be exactly the same as those found on earth. He pointed out that the Moon illuminates the universe with its brilliant shine, so if the rocks and sand are the same as on earth, why doesn’t the Sahara desert illumine just as brightly? Svarupa Damodara told him that the subject had already become a controversial matter in their college preaching. Some people had read about it in the Shrimad Bhagavatam, and our devotees also were telling college students. Thus, they had already been challenged whether they believed that the Moon was further away from earth than the Sun. “So what did you answer?” Prabhupäda asked him.

“We said yes, but our explanation was not solid in the sense that we said you have to study this more carefully. We had one explanation saying that now, the way we perceive knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. Actually this is a fact, but in mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it’s almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. Niels Bohr studied the structure of the atom. He had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at modern times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. His theories, he could explain things on his own, but still it’s completely wrong. So we are discussing about our limitations of our so-called knowledge-finding technique. So we said, ‘One has to be a little open-minded and discuss these things.’”

Svarupa Damodara pointed out, “Actually especially astronomy is one of the most unscientific branches of study, knowledge. It’s very, very little known. The techniques that they use, are very difficult to rely on.” We talked a little about how the Sun orbits the universe and is not fixed in one position, with Prabhupada quoting the Brahma Samhita.Yadubara wondered if the scientists would dismiss our claims as simply myth.
Shrila Prabhupada was dismissive of them. “Your claim also is myth. Who believes you? If you don’t believe me, I don’t believe you. Finished.” “So we should present our side,” Yadubara said. “Yes. That is our business,” Prabhupada said. “If you don’t believe me I don’t believe you. Finished business. You have got your authority, I’ve got my authority. What is your age? You are all scientists within two hundred years. And our Bhagavata is written five thousand years ago. Why shall I accept yours? You have become all scientists, and everything within two hundred years. What is the age of your European, Western civilization? It cannot go more than three thousand years? Our Bhagavata is written five thousand years ago. And before that, Sukadeva Goswami says, ‘I have heard like this.’ That’s all. Millions and millions of years ago.”

Brishakapi reiterated Prabhupada’s statement that whatever they say we take it as wrong, and Shrila Prabhupada agreed. He said the conditioned souls are all imperfect and everything they present is simply speculation; therefore whatever they observe with their imperfect senses is also imperfect. Thus one person puts forward a theory, and even though it is known that his knowledge is imperfect, still he wants to speak on it. Therefore, Prabhupäda said it means he simply wants to cheat. Then a few years later someone else will give another explanation showing the first one to be wrong; then his idea in turn is replaced by another. Since all of them are wrong, he said they all belong to a ‘parampara of cheaters.”

Brishakapi tried to grasp the implications of this statement. “But they cheated when they said they went to the Moon.”
“Yes,” Prabhupada continued. “They’re cheaters, those who have got imperfect senses, they’re all cheaters. If they say something, ‘Definitely this is like this,’ that is cheating.”
“But how can so many cheat?” Brishakapi wasn’t disagreeing with Shrila Prabhupada, but was simply trying to understand it. “Together they all cheat; they all say they went to the Moon. One thousand scientists, all together in one room? They all say, ‘We agree, this, they went to the Moon, here’s the…”

Shrila Prabhupada wasn’t put off by the enormous implications of his statement. Rather he was very positive about it. “Therefore I say that if we can prove that the Moon is beyond Sun, then all these cheaters will be finished, by one stroke.”
Svarupa Damodara said that all the speculation goes on in the name of intellectual exercise.
Prabhupada told a little tale to demonstrate how they take shelter in each other’s folly. “A fool is accepted by another fool. They’re getting Nobel Prize and so on, fool’s paradise. All of them are fools and they have created their own paradise. Do you know that story? One was drinking, so his friend said, ‘Oh, you are drinking, you’ll go to hell.’
“‘No, why? My father drinks.’
“‘Well, he’ll also go to hell.’
“‘Oh, my brother drinks.’
“‘So he’ll also go to hell.’
“’My mother…’ In this way, the whole list was passed. Then he said, ‘Everyone will go to hell then where is hell? It is paradise! If father is going, then mother is going, then I am going, then brother is going, then where is hell?’
“It is like that. There’s no question of fool. If everyone, all of us are fool, then where is the question of intelligent? ‘Hey, we are intelligent.’ This is their conclusion. We can give credit to something, just like I can see up to this wall. But if I say, ‘Now I am seeing beyond this wall everything, the forest and everything, I know everything.’ That is going on. Cheating.”

Svarupa Damodara informed Shrila Prabhupada of two main problems for the scientists. “One is this astronomical problem and the second is the origin of life. So my feeling is that in about fifty years something is going to be settled.”

Prabhupada laughed. “It’s already settled. They should accept that they are defeated. It’s already settled. But these rascals must admit. That’s all.”
Svarupa Damodara said, “It’s settled in the sense that even the scientist will come around that, ‘Oh, yes, what we taught was wrong.’”
Shrila Prabhupada liked his optimism. “Yes. That we want. They have become unnecessary authorities and misleading people. That we want to expose.”

Prabhupada chatted for a while, especially about the need for devotees to take charge and manage the affairs of the world. He said this was Krishna’s desire, just as when He had personally arranged to have the Pandavas take charge. Brishakapi Prabhu, not a man for subtleties, asked, “Will this Movement take over the world, Prabhupada?” Shrila Prabhupada was measured in his response. “At least you keep one idea; there is possibility.”
“I think it will be very big,” Brishakapi said very positively.
“That is possible,” Prabhupada agreed. “If we become serious and sincere, then it will go on, undoubtedly.” Brishakapi had visions of an expansive future. “See how big it grew just in ten years. Today is our ten-year anniversary. So in ten years we have gotten so big, by geometric progression in twenty years how big will we be? Thousands and thousands of people, chanting and dancing.”

“And there is chance,” Prabhupada assured us. “Simply by chanting you can attract so many people.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
6 July 1976 (Washington, DC) p. 183

* * *

The So-Called Mars Landing

As they conversed, a devotee came in with the morning newspaper. The front page had a picture purportedly sent by satellite all the way from the planet Mars. Prabhupada has been following the progress of the so-called Mars landing, via our reports, ever since he arrived in America. The photo showed a very large crater and a massive gorge, which the report said was a dried river bed ten times the size of the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Prabhupada wasn’t at all impressed. He didn’t believe their real business was on Mars at all.

Smiling, Rupanuga concurred. “I think it was all like a movie set.” “That’s all,” Prabhupada said.” They are not going. Why they are taking Arizona? That means they are in Arizona. Just like one man was stealing from the room, and there were some sounds, and the master of the house said, ‘Who is there? What is that sound?’ The man said, ‘No, no, I am not stealing.’ It is like that.”

The veranda filled with laughter at his witty psychoanalysis. Rupanuga said that throughout the article they were making comparisons with the earth. “Shrila Prabhupada, you catch them red-handed.”

Shrila Prabhupäda grinned. “Oh, yes, that I can do. Who asked them to speak of Arizona? Who asked that you are stealing? He asked for the sound, but he disclosed, ‘No, no, I am not stealing.’ It is like that. Why they are bringing Arizona? They could have mentioned other places.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
7 July 1976 (Washington, DC) p. 201

* * *

“To Keep Their Service in Order”

Tamal Krishna Maharaja came into Shrila Prabhupada’s sitting room for a few minutes as Prabhupäda prepared for his morning walk. Prabhupada told him about the cheating scientists who declare that life comes from chemicals, and he gave him his views on the recent space shot to Mars. “Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photograph in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, ‘These rascals have never gone [to the Moon]. For the last ten years I’ve protested [the lunar “landing”]. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, ‘It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they’ll be able to go.’ That has been proof available. Now they do not talk about it. All propaganda, finished. Now they have taken another, Mars, to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them.

The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? This is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons, ‘There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets.’ They are simply show. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
10 July 1976 (NYC, NY) p. 241

* * *

“The Whole Business is Going on in Arizona.”

“They admit, the scientists they admit that they are in ignorance. Simply bluff. [Prabhupada] told them that the Mars expedition was another bluff. “The business is going on in the Arizona, that’s all. And after few years they will present some stone, ‘Now we went to Mars. There is no possibility of living there. Take this stone and sand and be satisfied for your millions of dollars that you have spent.’ And they will say, ‘Oh, we have made scientific progress. I have got this stone.’”

To brilliantly expose their mentality he quoted yet another saying from his seemingly unlimited stock. “There is a song in Bengal that formerly anything European, sahib, that is good. So one person is selling meat, flesh of dog. Flesh of dog nobody takes, at least in India. So he said that ‘This is not ordinary dog. This is the dog which was killed by Viceroy, that dog. And because Viceroy killed it, therefore it has become nice dog. You can eat it.’ So, anything these so-called scientists said, that is to be accepted, without any common sense. This is your intelligence.’ He started laughing. “But I am fool Indian, I don’t believe it. I immediately capture the point, why this rascal is talking of Arizona? That means that the whole business is going on in Arizona.”

Bali-mardana had just traveled through Arizona and had noticed that much of the land is under government control. He said, “So there is good facility for them to make secretly.”

“Yes. The Moon business was done there,” Shrila Prabhupada said. Tamal Krishna’s analytical mind was quick to grasp the import. “This means it’s definitely a very calculated plot to cheat the public.”

Prabhupada was sure of it. “That’s all. Just to convince people that our, this rascal civilization, is advanced.”

Both Rameshvara and Tamal thought it must be an international conspiracy. They were keen to see how pervasive Shrila Prabhupada felt the cheating was. Tamal Krishna said, “That means all the nations are cooperating in this project.”

“All the so-called scientists,” Prabhupada confirmed.
“Do they know that they are?” Tamal asked. “Are they talking with each other, or are they just … ?”

“No, they are knowing,” Prabhupada assured him. “They talk. Chauri chauri matrika-bhai. All thieves, they are cousin brothers: ‘Don’t expose me and I’ll not expose you. Let us keep peace.’ Two thieves, he knows he is a thief, but if he wants to reveal a thief, then his business will suffer.”

Rameshwara, Tamal Krishna and Bali-mardana smiled, a bit amazed at the revelation of the cheating, appreciating Shrila Prabhupada’s boldness in exposing it. “Except for you, no one is blowing the whistle on these people. You are like a transcendental detective,” Tamal Krishna said.
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 3
12 July 1976 (NYC, NY) p. 263

* * *

“I Am Not So Fool!”

“You have to attempt in such a way that after giving up this body, you go back home, back to Godhead, never come back again here. This is the way. Otherwise, there is no happiness. You go on struggling, that is your choice. Make new attempts. Just like this Moon excursion. Ten years ago in one small book, Easy Journey to Other Planets, we predicted that this Moon-going attempt is childish and waste of time. We are not expert scientist, but from the shastra we can understand. Now such a brilliant planet, pleasing, and they have discovered there rocks and sand. Just see their intelligence.

Do you think rocks and sand are so brilliant? What do you think? This bluff is going on. People are feeling under the moonshine is so pleasing—and it is full of rocks and sand! We have to accept that. Rocks and sand, throughout the whole day by scorching heat, they also become heated. So if it is rocks and sand, so whole day it was heated by the sunshine, how it is pleasing?”

Prabhupada elucidated a while longer on the need to give up all designations, and finally, after a full night’s preaching, his guests left and he relaxed on the veranda. Even after all the visitors had gone he continued to preach to his disciples, perpetually enthusiastic to talk of Lord Krishna and the sublime philosophy of Bhagavad-gita

He decided to take rest inside rather than on the open veranda, saying that it was a little cool. Pradyumna pointed out that it was coming to purnima, the full Moon.

“Yes, Moon is the cooling effect,” Prabhupada said. And then with a grin, seizing on yet another opportunity to discredit the scientists, he added sarcastically, “Desert will make a cooling effect!” He made everyone laugh. “Just see. At least I shall not believe that this is desert and rock. I’m not so fool. The desert and rock is giving so nice brilliant shining, everyone is feeling comfortable. Just see. And we have to believe it.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 4
8 Aug. 1978 (Tehran) p. 21

* * *

“How Can the Moon Be Desert?”

Parivrajakacharya also pointed out that nowadays the [Iranian] government is irrigating the land and all kinds of vegetables and grains can be grown, so now people cannot use the excuse that they have to eat meat.

Prabhupada had another alternative. “They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? Krishna gives the water from the sky. Yajnad bhavati parjanyo.” Parivrajakacharya said that 2-3,000 years ago, this region was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert, and the rain has stopped.

This was because the yajna had stopped, Prabhupada told him. Then he added yet another one of his insights as to why the Moon could not be desert: “The thing is that the more people become sinful, they’ll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I’m surprised that Moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 4
8 Aug. 1978 (Tehran) p. 33
* * *

“They Have No Common Sense”

Tonight as I gave Prabhupada his massage up on the roof, the full Moon illuminated everything around, almost as if it were day. This is said to be the brightest Moon of the year and the one under which the rasa dance takes place. While I massaged his legs and feet, Prabhupada called my attention to the soothing brilliance of the Moon’s rays. “And they say it is coming from dust,” he said softly. “I am surprised only for this—that they accept such nonsense. They have no common sense.”
A Transcendental Diary, vol. 4
7 October 1976 (Vrindavana) p. 589

www.vedicastrologers.org

Please click the "Like" button below if you haven't done so already!
 
 
 
8,587 Views / EMail This Post / Print This Post / Home » The Great Moon Landing Hoax
 


Comments • [comment feed]

1 Unregistered

All the references to Hari Sauri Prabhu’s Transcendental Diary, in turn refer to raw transcripts from the folio database. The raw transcripts are the actual primary historical documents. Hari Sauri Prabhu’s accounts are recollections interspersed with short clip excerpts, from which here we are reading even shorter clips, still. While these accounts are extremely valuable historical recollections, they are not the original and full primary accounts.
.
I think if a serious scholar wishes to study the raw transcripts, which are so readily available, they will find that Srila Prabhupada’s critique of modern science is significantly more sophisticated than what is coming through in this article. The initial Transcendental Diary reference used in this essay, appears to offer a clip from an exchange between Srila Prabhupada and a reporter in LA. As a start, I recommend reading it in full, line by line, as it not enough to repeat a few tantalizing soundbites, and then disregard the rest.
.
Curiously, this article appears to be one in a series offered by devotees who are promoting, astrology? That is a rich tradition, and one shared by many of the founders of the modern scientific tradition such as Kepler, Galileo, and Newton, and many others. Rather, the problem here is that the understanding of what modern science is, tends to sound phenomenally naive.
.
Or to put it another way, it is foolish to dismiss the sophistication latent in one’s chosen adversary’s position, if one is claiming to offer a comprehensive critique as an alternative. Again, I wish to strongly suggest a serious, comprehensive study of Prabhupada’s transcripts offers evidence of a different sort critique—and one, most unfortunately, that could sound absent here.
.
As a last thought—I would suggest that our Euclidean perception of space; what to speak of our standard experience of time—are hardly reflective of the full experience of Krsna’s material energy, as it is. Attempting to box such subjects in with mere human terms of experience—no matter whether one is a critic, or promoter, of either the modern or traditional perspectives—is a fool’s mission. Claiming blind faith in either tradition, does not guarantee an intelligent appreciation of the dynamics involved. After all, even a child can play cheerleader.
.
btw - what is the current understanding of the term: “above the rays of sunshine”

Comment posted by sdmuni108 on December 19th, 2010
2 Unregistered

Very good advice that the readers should study the diaries more thoroughly. In fact that is the purpose of the article, to get Prabhupada’s faithfuls to do just that. Shrila Prabhupada kicked the demonic scientists in the face with logic of every sort. Here’s more;

LICK IT UP LIKE A DOG

Now with a new group of senior men surrounding him, Prabhupäda again raised the Mars issue, questioning what was the use of going. “What is their idea?”

Atreya Rsi said, “They constantly want to discover more and more so that they can claim that they are lords.”

“But what is that discovery?” Prabhupäda asked. “You simply go and see? That’s all?”
Atreya could see the pointlessness of it and said there was no really valid purpose.

Rädhäballabha said that it was considered advancement of knowledge.

When Gurudäsa said “They want to colonize because there is overpopulation on this planet,” Prabhupäda mocked him. “Eh? Another rascal!”
Gurudäsa grinned and said, “They want to put the American flag on the moon and say, ‘It is ours.’”

Prabhupäda struck at the nationalistic mentality with biting humor and sarcasm. “And then lick up. ‘Here is American flag.’ And then like dog, lick up urine!” His graphic comparison had everyone in stitches. “So lick up, then dog lick urine. It is useless. Dog’s business.”
When we stopped laughing, Pusta said a little more seriously, ” Prabhupäda, they feel they should explore the unknown.”

“That will remain everlastingly unknown,” Prabhupäda said. “They’ll never be able to push. Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be. This verse of Brahma-samhita, panthäs tu koöi-sata-vatsara-sampragamyo väyor athäpi manaso muni-puìgavänäm/ so’ py asti yat-prapada-sémny avicintya-tattve. It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, ‘There is no life. There is this. There is that.’ Real knowledge they’ll never get. Real knowledge you’ll get from Bhägavata.”
As we walked along the riverside, with the early morning traffic steadily increasing, Prabhupäda asked what the scientists say about the sun.

Tripuräri Mahäräja replied, “They think it’s too hot for life to exist there.”

“So how Krishna was there?” Prabhupäda asked.

“They don’t believe that,” Rädhäballabha said.

“So how can I believe you?” Prabhupäda returned. “If you don’t believe Krishna, shall I have to believe you?”
20 JULY 197

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on December 20th, 2010
3 Kulapavana

It needs to be pointed out that the oder of the days of the week in Roman (or English) calendar has nothing to do with the distance to their respective name-planet. This order is derived from the star heptagram used in ancient Greece. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week-day_names
Moreover, initially Roman week started with Saturday. When the Sun-cult became more prominent in the third century AD, sunday became the official start of the week. Slavic calendars started with Monday, and that tradition continues today. There is no calendar in existence which relates the order of the days in the week with the distance to various celestial bodies. And practically all ancient astronomers knew very well that Moon is the closest celestial object. The distance from Earth to the Moon was precisely calculated in ancient times by Hipparchus (160-125 B.C.).

Comment posted by Kulapavana on December 20th, 2010
4 pustakrishna

I love Srila Prabhupad. Yet, I want to create controversy here by placing certain things in perspective. There will be those who disagree with me…and I respect them for that. I want the administrator at Dandavats.com to please print this in its entirety, to avoid further conflicts, because the discussion has a direction.
I am well-aware, as are all of you, how the Vedic model apparently contradicts the issues discussed herein about whether astronauts went to the moon or not. Srila Prabhupad also personally said to me the following: “There is no discussion of dinosaurs in the Vedas. I do not believe that they existed.” These are issues to ponder, and I want to place some perspective onto this, given the chance. I want you to know that I absolutely, positively know that Krishna is God, and He is existing now, although beyond our mundane sense perception. He can reveal Himself how and when He likes.
One of our old Godbrothers, after Srila Prabhupad’s departure, visited Srila Prabhupad’s Godbrother and friend, Srila Sridhar Maharaj in the early 1980’s. Adikeshava Maharaj (at that time) asked Srila Sridhar Maharaj about the question of the moon, whether it is closer to or farther from the Earth than the Sun globe. Srila Sridhar Maharaj replied to him as follows: “What is important is that this was how Srila Sukadeva Goswami understood the cosmology.” We know that the Acharyas have faith in Guru, Shastra, and Sadhu. That is one of their necessary qualifications. Because there was no discussion at all of hosts of giant lizards or dinosaurs in the Vedas, Srila Prabhupad therefore looked through the Shastra to exclaim that dinosaurs did not exist. This of course flies in the face of so much archeologic findings to the contrary.
So, the important thing…is that this is how the Acharyas perceive reality…through the writings of the Vedas. I can accept that. It is an issue of faith. What do you think?

Pusta Krishna das

Comment posted by pustakrishna on December 20th, 2010
5 varahanarasimha

The sad part is if someone loses faith in Krsna as the SUpreme Lord over the moon landing issue.Like Madhavananda Prabhu was saying prviously it does nto change our bhajan and sadhana . If anyone thinks about it logically the sun making the earth project a shadow all the way on the moon this is really rubbish science fiction …..if we ever look at a solar eclipse it is clear there is a dark planet coming in fron ot the Sun, to me it is really very simple to understand…Srila Prabhupada gave us everything ….

Comment posted by varahanarasimha on December 21st, 2010
6 Unregistered

I completely agree with sdmuni108. Articles on this site should be subject to a rigorous editorial policy before they are presented to devotees worldwide as representing Iskcon, Prabhupada, and Krishna Consciousness.

Arguments like “You keep your faith in science, I will put mine in Prabhupada.” serve no purpose and should not be the type of argumentation that is promoted among devotees. We need to be promoting the grey areas of subjects, not black-and-white stances. This is the way to stay relevant and develop progressively more comprehensive and subtle understandings of such things.

Comment posted by Nitaisundara on December 21st, 2010
7 Pavamana

If the cited conversations with Srila Prabhupada, recollections of devotees who were present with His Divine Grace at the time, and the printed words of the Founder Acharya aren’t enough to convince one, then no amount of scrutinizing further is going to convince a skeptic on this matter. If you reprint everything that was said by Srila Prabhupada and his disciples in their entirety, in context or otherwise, you must admit that the relevant information is already given in this article. So, why do we need to go any further into what Srila Prabhupada said when we already know it? The arguments given by opponents of Patita Pavana’s article are clearly in opposition to the statements of His Divine Grace on the moon landing. Their conclusions are based upon research into the moon landing as given by the government sources, scientists, news media, astronauts, and other sources, which clearly conclude that the moon landing was indeed a fact. So how are we, as educated persons as well as disciples of Srila Prabhupada, to accept the words of our beloved Spiritual master in light of so much information to the contrary? If we deny the clear statements of Srila Prabhupada, we are accused of having little faith in Krishna Consciousness. If we blindly follow what Srila Prabhupada has said, we disregard years of education and deny what clearly appears to be scientific facts. Thus we are having this editorial discussion. All the arguments from both sides have already been given in the last Dandavats discussion about it, so in essence, nothing new is being presented here. At this point, it is pointless to continue arguing back and forth. I know where I stand, and after reading the article and editorial comments, anyone can make up their own mind on the matter. I say we bury the hatchet and move on.
Your servant, Pavamana dasa

Comment posted by Pavamana on December 22nd, 2010
8 Unregistered

Jai Srila Prabhupada.
We have to understand the purpose of the Acaryas for appearing in this world before we embark on analyzing them. Their only purpose is to present Krishna Consciousness through Srimad Bhagavatham because it is the essence of all vedic literatures and it speaks only about Sri Krishna and His exploits. For more details about the creation of the universe and its creatures, one may study other branches of vedas. However, our Acharyas are not interested in wasting valuable time in analyzing this material creation rather their purpose is to make us all Krishna Consciousness and for this reason they have only focused on and about Krishna. This is what Srila Prabhupada wanted us to do, focus on Krishna and nothing else. He wanted us to have faith in the shastras especially Srimad Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatham Sri Chaitanya Charitamrta. If someone has more time after thinking about Krishna 24 hrs i think they should be allowed to study other aspect of vedas to find out more details about the universe and its creations. It is better to understand what Srila Prabhupada wants us to do then finding out what the scientists are doing? If someone is interested in comparing vedas and science for strengthening one’s own faith, by all means one should do. Life is short in Kaliyuga, better one should try to understand the essence of the vedas instead of going through the entire vedic literatures and that is what Srila Prabhupada gave, the essence of vedas, Krishna Consciousness. Empiric study is all right if one lacks faith in the Acaryas and their words however, spiritual matters and Sri Krishna cannot be understood through empiric study. Only when the Supreme Lord within us establishes that we have developed enough faith in Him then only He will give us the intelligence to understand Him until then He will let us get baffled by His Own Divine Nature.

Daivi hy esa gunamayi
mama maya duratyaya
mam eva ye prapadyante
mayam etam taranti te

This divine energy of Mine, consisting of the three modes of material nature, is difficult to overcome. But those who have surrendered unto Me can easily cross beyond it. BG 7.14

mac-cittah sarva-durgani
mat prasadat tarisyasi
atha cet tvam ahankaran
na srosyasi vinanksyasi

If you become conscious of Me, you will pass over all the obstacles of conditional life by My grace. If, however, you do not work in such consciousness but act through false ego, not hearing Me, you will be lost. BG 18.58

Comment posted by dinashyamdas on December 22nd, 2010
9 Unregistered

Dear Patita Pavana Prabhu,
.
As you stated:
.
“Very good advice that the readers should study the diaries more thoroughly. In fact that is the purpose of the article, to get Prabhupada’s faithfuls to do just that. Shrila Prabhupada kicked the demonic scientists in the face with logic of every sort.”
.
What I am rather stating is that when using material like the diaries of individual devotees; as faithful recollections they are ultimately an invitation to our fellow “Prabhupada’s faithfuls” to investigate Prabhupada’s original transcripts taken from the original audio records. These original materials are also readily available for research work. Do you have access to Prabhupada’s folio and digital tape ministry?
.
Please do not get me wrong: personal recollections are an exceedingly important part of our legacy, and our shared devotional life. But personal recollections are not primary historical texts, which, I repeat, remain readily available. I would like to suggest that a comprehensive study of Prabhupada’s primary texts of these conversations reveal a body of sophisticated commentary otherwise lost in quote-fests devoted to provocative clips. Currently, that appears to be your modus operandi of research and writing.
.
As a point of reference, your excerpt in folio is: Morning Walk — July 20, 1976, New York. During July of 1976, Prabhupada engaged in numerous conversations on the topic of modern science. I would like to suggest that your medley of tantalizing sound-bites hardly represent a comprehensive study of these very long transcripts.
.
Unfortunately, the jiva’s referred to as “scientist” do not represent the only form of conditional cheating. As you well know, Prabhupada had many things to say about the cheating done in the name of religion, and perhaps, astrology, too. Of note, he alternatively expressed positive and encouraging aspects of these topical issues. For some reason, your presentation avoids that part of Prabhupada’s legacy.
.
In conclusion, obsessing on the most provocative statements—and all too often without appropriate context—is no guarantee of sincerity. What to speak of mature scholarship and devotional realization.

Comment posted by sdmuni108 on December 22nd, 2010
10 Unregistered

Another badly researched and emotionally laden article by Patita Pavana that shows he obviously didn’t even read the entire exchange he is referring to. What else can I say? It’s getting really frustrating… =(

“Varnadi das expressed such doubt”?

“a true disciple’s feelings”?

“self-ordained lettered mob”?

“outnumbered 1,000’s to 1″?

“simple logic defeats intellectual condescension shrouded in pseudoscientific jargon”?

Are you for real???

The 89 direct references of Prabhupada to the moon landings, space flight, and astronomy, and their related conversations, that I have studied over the last couple of years do not mirror your assertions at all.

Instead, they show massive misunderstandings about the difference between puranic cosmology and modern astronomy, gullible disciples presenting Prabhupada with conspiracy material from Bill Kaising’s book, and statements by Prabhupada that show that he himself was at times ambiguous about the issue.

I am also failing to understand why Dandavats continues to publish your articles, despite your dismal track record of accuracy — as shown here:

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=7951#comment-11733

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=7951#comment-11764

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=8025#comment-11931

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=8025#comment-12054

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=8025#comment-12163

Payonidhiji,

“if we ever look at a solar eclipse it is clear there is a dark planet coming in fron ot the Sun, to me it is really very simple to understand…”

Yes, that would be the Moon coming in between the Earth and the Sun, eclipsing the Sun.

Just like with a Lunar eclipse the Earth is coming in between the Sun and the Moon. However, this casts a shadow over the Moon that leaves the Moon visible. The view is not blocked by an object, like with a Solar eclipse, but dimmed by a shadow. This is visible even with the naked eye. I spent almost an hour outside looking at the recent Lunar eclipse and can attest to this.

Simple to understand, indeed.

Comment posted by WillemV on December 22nd, 2010
11 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Regarding dinosaurs, let’s say a future scientist finds debris of an armored vehicle some 10, 000 years from today. Add another fact to this hypothetical example, at that time the history of our present age will be lost. If those scientists still have some brains, they could name the remaining of the tank картил. Then someone more fortunate will find few pages of today’s history and will say that картил did not exist in 2010, which is a fact. But the one who believes in the invented name of картил will argue that they did exist because the physical evidence proves it.

We know from Srimad Bhagavatam that when Muchukunda finally got up after his long sleep he found that the trees over the entire Earth have become very small. Their height was only up to his knees. He felt asleep in the previous yuga and once Shri Krishna helped him awake from his sleep he found sizes of everything around drastically diminished. In different ages living entities had different sizes. In fact in India few skeletons of humans have been found the head of which is as big as an entire human being. But this fact has been covered up since scientists already are on the dance floor humming their song about dinosaurs. Out of shame, they cannot give up their theories and add to the fallibility of science. They will have to officially admit that dinosaurs are just skeletons of giant birds and other creatures left from a different yuga.

If you have never seen a chicken and if you just have chicken’s skeleton, you can make up at least 10 different variations of its appearance. Try it for fun. They you will get a contemporary dinosaur re-sized. Imagination is there not to invent but to imagine things in perspective once we hear shastra.
Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 23rd, 2010
12 Unregistered

From Patita Pavana das Adhikary:

Dear Prabhus,
Our position as disciples is to simply accept Shri Guru-vani without adding our own “I think” or “grey area” (as two letters above have suggested) to the mix. Neither should devotees like Payonidhi or myself be banned from this forum for expressing allegiance to our spiritual master’s instructions, as one person suggested above.

His Divine Grace Shrila Prabhupada informed me in no uncertain terms that I am a complete fool, and therefore my only hope will be found in repeating his words. “You fool and rascal… Just say exactly what I have said. Nothing more.” So in pursuance of that divine instruction, “my” article sets out to accomplish exactly that. Nonetheless, when even NASA engineers like Bill Kaysing show how the Moon launch was a total sham, and mountains of hard evidence have surfaced as seen on sites like www.moonmovie.com, there appears no room for discussion in this matter whatsoever. As Shrimati Malati pointed our in her brilliant talk in the above article, it is really unwise to allow our very future in the Spiritual Kingdom become jeopardized over this issue, especially when experts agree. As devotees seeking perfection of service unto the twin lotus feet of Shri Guru, we have higher mountains to scale.

As far as one person’s suggestion (above) to investigate the subject more fully, that is an individual choice. Prabhupada said that all his books were presented simply to get you and I to chant Hare Krishna. Out of his ocean of compassion, the shuddha-bhakta welcomed both scholars as well as unlettered fools like me. For those of us who are not capable of becoming pandits in Vedic literature and language, “Chant Hare Krishna and be happy” (along with following the rules agreed upon at initiation), is enough to guarantee the simple devotee’s ticket back to home back to Godhead. Similarly, there is no need to read further into the subject of scientific forgery than what is stated here, in order to form a correct understanding of the World Acharya’s opinion in the matter of the faked Moon shot.

Continued…

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on December 24th, 2010
13 Unregistered

Continued”
Having said that, we cannot ignore that Shriman Hari Sauri Prabhu in his five published volumes (with two more to come) has captured Shrila Prabhupada’s mood and expression—hence his world-saving message–like no other writer. What he has written is taken from taped conversations he himself taped. Therefore it is up to the astute devotee to investigate this encyclopedic presentation of the mind of a shaktyavesh avatara with as much effort as he can invest. For the faithful disciple, the conclusion will be the same. Sugar tasted from any side is sweet, whether sampled in bits or swallowed wholesale.

From a historical point of view, the fact is that the rascal demonic American scientists and politicians (under the guidance of the Nazi scientists like Werner Von Braun) totally faked the Moon landing as one of many hoaxes perpetrated by America to validate further suffering for the very people who elect the politicians and worship the scientists. This is all public record. However, for those who need to see more facets of the issue from Shrila Prabhupada’s point of view, here’s another episode from A Transcendental Diary:

ANY CHILD CAN UNDERSTAND–BUT THESE RASCALS CANNOT

1.) Of course, no discussion with Shrila Prabhupada can be complete without him exposing the flaws of the scientists. He used their failed attempts to go to other planets as a prime example. “They’re refused, ‘No, you cannot go.’” Then he delighted the assembly with his challenge. “‘Live there. Go!’ It is practical. We see the moon planet is there. ‘We have got machine, we can go.’ But you cannot go. This is laws of nature; this is practically proof. But they are so rascal, fool, they are going to another planet. They do not think with the one planet we have already failed.

Continued…

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on December 24th, 2010
14 Unregistered

Continued…
“They are called punah punash charvita charvanam —chewing the chewed. They are being baffled every step and still they are trying to overcome the laws of nature; this is their foolishness. Naradhamah. Mayayapahrita-jnana. Maya is so strong upon them that their so-called scientific knowledge is useless. In 1958 when I wrote that book Easy Journey to Other Planets, I write in that book that this moon planet is simply childish and waste of time, and actually it has proved. So I was not a scientist, neither I am a scientist, how did I say? I said on the strength of the version in the Vedic literature that it is not possible. You cannot. We are conditioned, we are conditioned to remain in a certain atmosphere; we cannot surpass that. Just like we are animals of the land, we cannot go to the water; and the aquatics, fishes, they are animals of the water, they cannot live on the land. Why these rascals are trying to overcome the laws of nature? How foolish rascals they are, just imagine. Any child can understand, but these rascals cannot understand. Their challenge is that ‘We are trying to overcome the laws.’ Is it not? That is their challenge. Therefore they are rascals, naradhamah mayayapahrita-jnana. They are attempting in something which they cannot perform, therefore they are rascals, mudha. So better than to become more and more mudha, better to take to Krishna consciousness, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam, that will make your life successful. Why should you imitate these rascals? Hmm? What is your saying, what do you think? We say they are rascals; what do you think?”

Yogeshvara spoke for the whole gathering. “They are all rascals.”

With everyone laughing, Prabhupäda declared, “That’s right. Anyone protest against this? He’ll be another rascal! Don’t try to overcome the laws of nature; that is not possible. You have been given this land, this planet. Live here, grow your food, chant Hare Krishna and live peacefully. Why should we go to the moon planet?”…

BEAT THEM WITH SHOES

Fingering a flower on his garland he said, “Just see how beautifully it is colored. This aesthetic sense; Krishna knows how it will become beautiful, svabhaviki jnana-bala-kriya cha, construction of the flower. And there is no intelligence.”

“Chance,” I said.

Prabhupada sat back shaking his head and laughing. “So beat them with shoes. And when they protest, ‘Oh, it is chance. Don’t mind, it is by chance I am beating.’” (3rd Aug. 1976, La Nouvelle Mayapur)

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on December 24th, 2010
15 Shyamasundara Dasa

Re#3
This wikipedia article is Euro-centric as are most of their articles, hence there is a bias. The following quote from that page is simply not true:

“The Greco-Roman scheme of planetary names was also adopted into Hindu astrology during the 2nd century AD. Sanskrit attestations of the navagraha ‘nine astrological forces’, seven of which are used for day names, date to the Yavanajataka ‘Sayings of the Greeks’, a 150 AD translation of a 120 AD Greek Alexandrian text.”

The Surya Siddhanta 1.51-52 gives an explanation of the order of the days of the week. Each hour is named after one of the 7 planets:

Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Moon.

The day is named after the planet ruling the hour prevalent at sunrise. Suppose the first hour is ruled by the Sun then since 24/7 leaves a remainder of 3 then the hour ruling after the next sunrise would be the Moon. Continuing in this way the planet ruling the hour after sunrise of the next day would be Mars, etc.

Saturn(7), Jupiter(5), Mars(3), Sun(1), Venus(6), Mercury(4), Moon(2)

Thus the order of the rulers of the days of the week if the first is ruled by the Sun would then be Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn.

This can be seen visually in the table that is found on that wikipedia page just above the title Greco-Roman Tradition but no mention is given to the Surya Siddhanta.

Comment posted by Shyamasundara Dasa on December 24th, 2010
16 Shyamasundara Dasa

Re #3

BTW the Romans observed an 8 day week:

The nones are related to the nundinae, the market days which fell on the eighth day of the eight-day market week used by the Romans. They are so called because, in the Roman system of inclusive counting, they came every nine days. From the nones to the ides, there was exactly one market week.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar

Comment posted by Shyamasundara Dasa on December 24th, 2010
17 Shyamasundara Dasa

I also agree with Stithadimuni Prabhu (sdmuni108). I accept what Srila Prabhupada has said in all cases but that doesn’t mean we should be sloppy or unrigorous when dealing with opposing views. As Srila Prabhupada said “Religion without philosophy is sentimentality and/or fanaticism.” So we should be very sound in our presentation against opposing views lest we come across as sentimental fanatics.

At the following link one can find quite a few enlightening lectures by Sriman Sadaputa Prabhu who rigorously takes on the scientific establishment and provides many insights into our own siddhanta.
http://tinyurl.com/329qcye

BTW in reference to #4 Sadaputa mentions that when Prabhupada was asked about the dinosaurs SP replied that they are not extinct.

Shyamasundara Dasa
www.ShyamasundaraDasa.com

Comment posted by Shyamasundara Dasa on December 24th, 2010
18 Shyamasundara Dasa

Re #5

If anyone thinks about it logically the sun making the earth project a shadow all the way on the moon this is really rubbish science fiction …..if we ever look at a solar eclipse it is clear there is a dark planet coming in fron ot the Sun,

Actually in Surya Siddhanta chapter 4 it does describe that the eclipse of the Moon is caused by the shadow of the Earth falling on the Moon and the eclipse of the Sun caused by the Moon getting between the Sun and the Earth.

However, this can only happen when the Sun and the Moon are conjunct Rahu/Ketu. It is difficult to describe this without a diagram so take a look at http://www.salagram.net/nodes.gif
to understand the situation.

Also read http://www.salagram.net/eclipses-page.htm

It should also be noted from a Vedic perspective where consciousness is the substrate of everything that even “shadows” have consciousness. I do not want to get into a long discussion of these matters as I am otherwise engaged.

Comment posted by Shyamasundara Dasa on December 24th, 2010
19 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

All the Vedic sciences as per described in Shukra Nithi are intended as the sole property of the devotees. As devotees, we are meant to be the leaders of all branches of knowledge such as vastu and ayurveda but there are people who like Maharishi have already founded an entire university teaching those subjects. Why have we allowed others who are interested in karma and mundane activities to propagate these subjects instead of us who should be teaching them in Krishna Conscious ways to the world? After all, the temple on 26th Second Avenue was the first “Hindu” temple in the west, have we lost our lead somewhere along the way?

Most devotees have been to India, not once but many times, Many accept that because India is the birth place of Krishna everything there should be accepted as golden. In reality, India is a land of great contrasts. Like the proverbial swan, we are supposed to drink only the milk from the water and not associate with all that is India. Instead many naive devotees along with the cult of Shri Krishna have become followers of the Bollywood as well. In this way the representatives of Krishna Consciousness instead of being the leaders of society have become followers. What happens when devotees start imitating the indians who imitate the same things we were supposed to reject years ago?

India has a space program and the main objective of this program is to send a man on the Moon by year 2014. Is this idea coming a bit late, only some 45 years after Americans declared they did the same? It is a characteristic of the third world countries to follow the leading nations and some do catch up decades later when the leader is doing something totally different. Like this the followers never have a chance to be equal to the leaders. It is due to the British invasion in India which has rendered a great spiritual nation to a mere follower of modern hoax. First in modern history Srila Prabhupada came to the western world to show and preach the superiority of spirit over matter. Nonetheless, contemporary India is still to a greater degree product of the domino effect of western civilization.

continues->

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 26th, 2010
20 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

->

It is a fact, when in US and other countries more and more people do see through the past propaganda of the Moon landing (in my country these facts are openly published in magazines), in India scientists are trying to go to the Moon and just two days ago their rocket blew up one minute after take-off. They could not even launch a satellite. Why do we need to identify with a locality of the world and follow its contemporary fashions?

We were shy to wear the shikha as a symbol for the devotees only to see it become a fashion statement on the heads of punk rock musicians. As long as we make compromises we are not going to spread this Krishna Consciousness as the only possible governmental institution all over the world. It seems that materialist have more faith in their own resolutions than we have in our scriptures. When Kennedy said, “We are going to the Moon”, everyone knew that they are going to do even if it has to be done by hook or by crook. And since Sukadeva Goswami has declared that the Moon is further than the Sun and that has been stressed by Srila Prabhupada we should have a great desire to prove these statement as the only truth. Pleasing the spiritual master is the ticket to our Krishna Consciousness.

Your servant,
Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 26th, 2010
21 Unregistered

“If you reprint everything that was said by Srila Prabhupada and his disciples in their entirety, in context or otherwise, you must admit that the relevant information is already given in this article. So, why do we need to go any further into what Srila Prabhupada said when we already know it? The arguments given by opponents of Patita Pavana’s article are clearly in opposition to the statements of His Divine Grace on the moon landing.”
.
This is a troublesome statement, in my view. The author seems to suggest that there is nothing new to be learned from reading the volumes of material Prabhupada made available to us. I rather recall that Prabhuapda felt we needed to read more, and not less.
.
My point is not that the variety of perspectives and recollections being presented here are irrelevant. Rather, their greatest relevancy is to be found in light of Prabhupada’s entire corpus. I assure you, Prabhupada spoke quite a bit about the moon landing, as it was an extremely topical event at the time.
.
Not all of Prabhupada’s arguments rejected a mechanical landing. In fact, he engaged a wide variety of views all the while defending the integrity of the Puranic accounts. And he did so while training up EXTREMELY young devotees who’s faith in these accounts needed to be solidified, and quickly.
.
Whatever the case, Prabhuypada’s consistent message involved upholding the integrity of the Puranic accounts, however that may be perceived by our relatively immature minds.
.
The solution to our current dilemma that I would recommend: carefully study the original transcripts for these discussions, which are readily available. For a faithful follower in Prabhupada’s line, surely that is a welcome recommendation.
.
A couple of short points before my character count expires: Personally, I am not a fan of censorship, especially for an entertaining quagmire such as this one. Perhaps better—all things in moderation.
.
Second, I am not clear where our apparently Eastern European astrological hatred for NASA comes from. After all, numerous space agencies claim to have visited our favorite rock-”star” in the night sky. Some of them originate from the noble Slavic nations, while others involve ESA, China, South Asia, Japan & Brazil.
.
Back in the 70s, there was even a humorous account of the Polish Air Force going to the Sun, though at night. Perhaps North Korea will beat them to it.

Comment posted by sdmuni108 on December 26th, 2010
22 Unregistered

Comment on #11

“let’s say a future scientist finds debris of an armored vehicle some 10, 000 years from today.” etc. etc.

Let’s not say that, because there is no way that your imaginings about the mental. intellectual, and motivational state of humans 10,000 years from now offers anything realistic to the discussion at hand. There is simply no way to know what people will be like by then.

“We know from Srimad Bhagavatam that when Muchukunda finally got up after his long sleep he found that the trees over the entire Earth have become very small.” etc. etc.

Your premise is that this story is representing a historical fact, rather than an allegorical framework for philosophical content.

“In different ages living entities had different sizes. In fact in India few skeletons of humans have been found the head of which is as big as an entire human being.”

Fact? Uhm, you mean the digitally altered picture of a Mastodont found in New York that made its round over the world in 2007? Or some of the other doctored images and stories in this regard?

http://www.hoax-slayer.com/giant-skeleton.html

http://news.nationalgeographic.....leton.html

http://www.rationalistinternat.....01_en.html

“Out of shame, they cannot give up their theories and add to the fallibility of science. They will have to officially admit that dinosaurs are just skeletons of giant birds and other creatures left from a different yuga.”

And you know this to be true because…?

“If you have never seen a chicken and if you just have chicken’s skeleton, you can make up at least 10 different variations of its appearance. Try it for fun. They you will get a contemporary dinosaur re-sized. Imagination is there not to invent but to imagine things in perspective once we hear shastra.”

Yes, imagination can do a lot, as you yourself have shown here. Studies of musculature in relation to bone size and density, posture, metabolism, and other scientific and medical disciplines yield more realistic results than imagining dinosaur-sized chickens. This, and studies of fairly recently discovered fossilized soft tissue, complete skeletons, and skin imprints have helped the ongoing fine-tuning of the historical record, so that fantasy becomes less and less of an option.

Comment posted by WillemV on December 26th, 2010
23 Unregistered

Comment on #12-15

“Our position as disciples is to simply accept Shri Guru-vani without adding our own ‘I think’ or ‘grey area’ (as two letters above have suggested) to the mix.”

Guru-vani and guru-opinion/like/dislike/personal preference/taste are two very different things. It serves no positive or progressive purpose to elevate the latter to the level of absolute, unquestionable truth.

“Neither should devotees like Payonidhi or myself be banned from this forum for expressing allegiance to our spiritual master’s instructions, as one person suggested above.”

That would be me, I guess, although I did not suggest the banning of either. I (and others) merely wonder why Danadavats keeps posting articles from you that are full of inaccuracies posing as facts.

“Just say exactly what I have said. Nothing more.’ So in pursuance of that divine instruction, ‘my’ article sets out to accomplish exactly that.”

No, it doesn’t. It sets out to isolate particular, incomplete viewpoints of your spiritual master to rikindle a controversial topic that has been chewed out already. Then later on you say that it’s all useless and dangerous, and that we should just chant Hare Krishna…

“Nonetheless, when even NASA engineers like Bill Kaysing show how the Moon launch was a total sham…”

Bill Kaysing was not a NASA engineer. You are simply doing the same thing Payonidhi and others did in the previous thread on this matter: you are accepting and parotting badly researched conspiracy garbage as if it is divinely revealed sastra.

Please get to know the people you are parotting befor you blindly accept their nonsense:

http://kuruvinda.com/MoonHoax.aspx?p=3

“From a historical point of view, the fact is that the rascal demonic American scientists and politicians (under the guidance of the Nazi scientists like Werner Von Braun) totally faked the Moon landing as one of many hoaxes perpetrated by America to validate further suffering for the very people who elect the politicians and worship the scientists. This is all public record.”

Hollow words, as you are most definitely neither qualified nor able to prove this. Otherwise, please provide references to your source materials or research. Thanks.

Comment posted by WillemV on December 26th, 2010
24 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

To my comment # 11: “We know from Srimad Bhagavatam that when Muchukunda finally got up after his long sleep he found that the trees over the entire Earth have become very small. etc. “

Varanadi d replied: “Your premise is that this story is representing a historical fact, rather than an allegorical framework for philosophical content.”

If Muchucunda is just a representation then his meeting with Shri Krishna is also a representation. Are you saying that Shri Krishna Himself is not real and Bhagavad Gita is just a symbolic representation as well? This is typical mayavada view when the objective is to find something “deeper” than the obvious. In this view Arjuna is viewed as an allegory of atma, Krishna as an allegory of Brahman, Arjuna’s chariot as the body, etc. You are openly going against Srila Prabhupada who is address as:

… nirvishesha-shunyavadi
pashchatya-desha-tarine.

He, Srila Prabhupada is the deliverer of the Western countries, which are filled with impersonalism and voidism.

A true devotee is simple and he prefers to read and take as authoritative Srila Prabhupada’s books not wikipedia.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on December 27th, 2010
25 Unregistered

Comment on #13:

“Why have we allowed others who are interested in karma and mundane activities to propagate these subjects instead of us who should be teaching them in Krishna Conscious ways to the world?”

Are you trying to rewrite the history of India (and the world) or do you simply know practically nothing of it and still try to come off as if you do? Either way, it’s not working.

To teach the world requires much more than an elitist holier-than-thou attitude. Much more.

“After all, the temple on 26th Second Avenue was the first ‘Hindu’ temple in the west, have we lost our lead somewhere along the way?”

The whimsical way you present “facts” is starting to mirror that of your husband.

Even if by “Hindu” you sarcastically mean vaishnava, Surendranath Mukerji (1868-1914), better known as Baba Premananda Bharati, was a Chaitanya Vaisnava who came to New York in 1902, long before Bhaktisiddhanta Maharaja even sent his first disciples to England in 1933. He was a student of Swami Brahmanand Bharati and established a society in New York called “The Krishna Samaj” and published a treatise called “Sree Krishna” (yes, I’ve read it). From 1906 to 1912 he published a periodical much like BTG, called “The Light of India.” He is the earliest known Vaisnava to have used the English term “Krishna consciousness.” He traveled and lectured extensively.

He is said to have had as many as 5,000 disciples in the US alone. Toward the end of 1907, he returned to India with six American disciples and opened a mission in Calcutta, which failed due to lacking financial support, leading him to relocate back to the US in 1910 with his followers. Having returned to India again in 1911, Bharati died in Calcutta in 1914, an event which soon led to the closing of the temple in America.

“It is a characteristic of the third world countries to follow the leading nations and some do catch up decades later when the leader is doing something totally different. Like this the followers never have a chance to be equal to the leaders. It is due to the British invasion in India which has rendered a great spiritual nation to a mere follower of modern hoax.”

Pure speculation. I suggest you study history first, instead of continuing to make these flippant speudo-factual statements.

Comment posted by WillemV on December 27th, 2010
26 Unregistered

Comment on #20:

“It is a fact, when in US and other countries more and more people do see through the past propaganda of the Moon landing (in my country these facts are openly published in magazines), in India scientists are trying to go to the Moon and just two days ago their rocket blew up one minute after take-off. They could not even launch a satellite.”

Saying that something is a fact doesn’t make it a fact. As a matter of fact, your facts mostly turn out not to be facts at all.

Gallup’s famous poll of 1999 has shown that the Moon-hoax conspiracy never reached anywhere near even 10% of the US population.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/199.....-Moon.aspx
http://www.gallup.com/poll/371.....-View.aspx

Russia had its own active moon landing program untill well into the 70s. Several countries are pursuing it right now. Over all, the mood seems to be up world-wide as far as space travel is concerned.

India’s most recent satellite launch was indeed a failure, but as an isolated incident that means little to their Moon project. Failure is merely a stepping stone. India has successfully launched dozens of satellites since the late 70s:

http://www.isro.org/scripts/milestones.aspx

“When Kennedy said, ‘We are going to the Moon’, everyone knew that they are going to do even if it has to be done by hook or by crook. And since Sukadeva Goswami has declared that the Moon is further than the Sun and that has been stressed by Srila Prabhupada we should have a great desire to prove these statement as the only truth”

Chandra is vertically located higher above the plain of Bhu-mandala than Surya.

In other words, the Moon is further away from Bhu-mandala (sometimes called the Earth) than the Sun.

Surya is horizontally at a further distance from Jambu-dvipa than Chandra.

In other words, the Sun is further away from Jambu-dvipa (where Bharata-varsa, the Earth, is) than the Moon.

So yes, from a puranic cosmological point of view the Moon is further away from the “Earth” (Bhu-mandala) than the Sun. But from the same puranic cosmological point of view we do not live on Bhu-mandala anywhere near the Sun. We live in the center, on Jambu-dvipa, in a region called Bharata-varsa, much closer to the Moon than the Sun.

This has been explained many times in related threads. If you are still not willing to understand this simple difference, it must be because you choose to do so

Comment posted by WillemV on December 27th, 2010
27 Shyamasundara Dasa

WillemV said:

“We know from Srimad Bhagavatam that when Muchukunda finally got up after his long sleep he found that the trees over the entire Earth have become very small.” etc. etc.

Your premise is that this story is representing a historical fact, rather than an allegorical framework for philosophical content.

It is a historical fact, just as Lord Krsna lifting Govardhana hill is a historical fact. There is a whole section in Mahabharata and other Puranas describing how everything changes sizes in different yugas.

When Bhima met Hanuman he asked Hanuman to show him that gigantic form by which he jumped to Lanka. Hanuma replied that he could not because he did that in Treta yuga and this was now Dvapara yuga and things had shrunk etc.

Was Hanuman’s jumping to Lanka also an allegory? Is everything in sastra an allegory, like Lord Krsna 16,108 wives, showing the universal form, Krsna entering into Uttara’s womb to save Parikshit? Should our viewpoint be that if we can not experience in our narrow range of perception then it must be an allegory.

I don’t know where you get this idea that it is allegorical, there are very few areas in the Bhagavatam and other sastra where what is presented is allegory and when it is, as in the case of Puranjana it is clearly described as allegory.

I find your assertion that Muchukunda saw everything as shrunken to be allegorical to be quite disturbing.

Comment posted by Shyamasundara Dasa on December 30th, 2010
28 Unregistered

From Patita Pavana das:

Regarding the bogus Moon landing that the American government bamboozled the world with, US President William Jefferson Clinton says on page 156 of his best selling auto-biography “My Life:”

(Recalling an event in 1969, he writes:) “Just a month before, Apollo 11 astronauts Buzz Aldrin and Neil Armstrong had left their colleague aboard spaceship Columbia and walked on the moon, beating by five months President Kennedy’s goal of putting a man on the moon before the decade was out. The old carpenter asked me if I really believed it had happened. I said, ‘Sure, I saw it on television.’ He disagreed. He said that he did not believe it for a minute, that “them television fellers” could make things look real that weren’t. Back then I thought he was a crank. During my eight years in Washington I saw some things on television that made me wonder if he wasn’t ahead of his time.”

We must wonder why an American President, a lawyer known as “Slick Willy” to his critics, would distance himself from the increasingly unpopular notion that America has put astronuts on the Moon. Could it be that he feels that the story is so close to science fiction that when it unravels he wants to be on the side of those who understand the truth of the greatest hoax of the Twentieth Century?

In presenting the facts of the lunar conspiracy, I have given many different reasons offered by Shrila Prabhupada ’s as to why walking on the Moon was absolutely ripped out of the pages of the comic books. Yet, I have been criticized here for “poor research.” Nonetheless, no proponent of the opposite point of view has shown that Prabhupada ever gave the slightest indication that the Moon landing was a fact. No one can provide such a quote because such a quote does not exist. Hints or statements that such a position does exist are mere bluffs just as the fictitious Moon shots were smoke and mirrors.

There are many who conveniently claim Prabhupada changed his mind on certain key issues. He never did that. His Divine Grace was most firm in his absolute convictions. Similarly, the rittwics say that Prabhupada changed his mind in late 1977, stating that no disciple could become guru. Like that, some pretend that Prabhupada adjusted his views about the Moon landing. But no genuine evidence has ever surfaced to prove that once having taken an important stand, the World Acharya reversed it. That was not Prabhupada and that is not an acharya.

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on December 30th, 2010
29 Unregistered

This has been interesting, but one hastens to add need and want for mutual respect what to speak of Vaishanava Etiquette. Otherwise simply getting too attached to aspects of the temporary material world. Maya Devi is doing good service! I think Srila Prabhupada gives example of Tal fruit and people discussing how it fell etc. whilst boy came and took fruit.
We don’t want to cause apparadh over a not so important thing in the grand scheme of things.
1 Devotee said go to original source this is fair and wise. Many people are writing books about Prabhupada.
Only one mahabhagavata recognises another.
If you want to know me, then you must know about me from me. You can not speculate about me. [S.P. Room Conversation with Reporter June 4, 1976, Los Angeles]
So that means, anyway, if you want to know about me, then you must know from me.
That is authentic. [Bhagavad-gita Lecture, 3.17-20, New York, May 27, 1966]
Can see http://*************
comment no (3) “practically all ancient astronomers knew very well that Moon is the closest celestial object. ” This totally unsubstantiated. The rest of the points have been shown to be wrong by Shamsunder Prabhu.
Is it not mildly amusing that persons with imperfect senses and conditioned speak so authoritatively without reference or realisation very often. This is condemned by Srila Prabhupada: gentlemen does not speak beyond his realisation and Gour Govinda Maraj: Sadhu never speaks theoretically.
What happened to a bit of humility. Personalities like Srila Prabhupada who are self-realised and only here for our benefit have this as picked up by others so called outsiders but maybe they are more inside, for example George Hari-son

Comment posted by Das of dasa on December 31st, 2010
30 Jeevanmukta Das

The moon is further away from the sun and is bigger exactly as the shastras state. However, it still does come in front of the sun and this allows for the moon phases.

How so?

Simple really. The moon has an elliptical orbit. Nor is the earth at the center of this elliptical orbit. It is more to one side. At the perigee (the shorter distance from moon to earth, when it appears much larger) the moon’s orbit acutally passes inside or in front of the sun’s orbit. Thus we get moon phases. Because the moon has an elliptical orbit, it appears at times very big and at other times very small. (See link below for size comparison)

Of course, the scientists, as always, are cheating. They say the moon looks bigger because of optical illusion and what not. Not true. No one has gone to the moon. In those days they couldn’t even get a TV to work right let alone go to the moon.

So, the Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada are right. The moon is bigger and has a bigger or distant orbit.

See size difference of moon: http://www.perseus.gr/Astro-Lu.....erigee.htm

Comment posted by Jeevanmukta Das on December 31st, 2010
31 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Varanadi d said: Chandra is vertically located higher above the plain of Bhu-mandala than Surya.

Varanadi Prabhu, This is something I agree with. Nonetheless, the distance is still great and has nothing to do with the fact that the Moon landing did not happen.

You need to read what I am really saying in my comments. Vaishnavism has been spread throughout the Earth in previous yugas. Vishnu warship is not something new even for the west. But what we are referring to is postmodern history and that is all we can discuss at the present. It is useless to discuss something from previous times just like we are not qualified to speak about the technology used in the construction of the vimanas. Those aircraft were able to fly to other dimensions of the universe. But In Kali Yuga there are only “vimanas” which are referred In Vimanika Shasta a as artificial. There it is specifically mentioned that in Kali Yuga aircrafts cannot travel from one planet to another. There may be attempts to go to the Moon or other places but they are all useless waste of time and doomed to failure. Doubting the words of the Acharya is a symptom of rebellious mentality which is not healthy for devotional service.

Your servant,
Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 2nd, 2011
32 Unregistered

Comment on #28:

“Nonetheless, no proponent of the opposite point of view has shown that Prabhupada ever gave the slightest indication that the Moon landing was a fact. No one can provide such a quote because such a quote does not exist. Hints or statements that such a position does exist are mere bluffs just as the fictitious Moon shots were smoke and mirrors.”

It is certainly true that Prabhupada in general stuck with his viewpoint that Moon landings were impossible within the paradigm of puranic cosmology, which was further encouraged by disciples pesenting him with material from Bill Kaysing’s book. But Prabhupada was neither an astronomer, nor an astrologer. His disciples of those days weren’t either and could hardly pound their chests on their knowledge and understanding of puranic cosmology or history. There is no blame to be assigned for the misunderstandings and their ensueing conclusions.

Now, to claim what you are claiming here, Patita Pavanaji, is a different matter…

SB 7.15.50-51, purport
“It may be remarked in this connection that even the modern so-called scientists who are going to the Moon are not able to stay there, but are returning to their laboratories.”

NOD, Happiness in Krishna Consciousness
“Though the modern astronauts go to the Moon with the help of spaceships, they undergo many difficulties…”

SB 6.1.6, Bombay, November 6, 1970
“Even they have gone, they are landing in some part of the Moon planet where there is no inhabitation.”

SB 1.1.2, London, August 16, 1971
“Just like these so-called scientists are going to the Moon planet and coming back — because conditioned.”

SB 2.1.5, Los Angeles, August 13, 1972
“Just like in modern days, especially your American scientists, they are going to the Moon planet. But when their stock of, that machine, is finished, immediately they come down…”

Bhagavad-Gita 4.12, Vrindavan, August 4, 1974
“Now they are going, trying to go to the Moon planet. Or they have gone. That is education, scientific education.”

Departure Lecture, London, March 12, 1975
“Just like these Moon-planet-goers, they attempted many times jumping, but they could not get any shelter. They have come back again.”

Continued…

Comment posted by WillemV on January 3rd, 2011
33 Unregistered

Comment on #28 continued…

Actually, let’s stop here… I guess it is of no use anyway to provide you with these quotes, is it, Patita Pavanaji?

Although I usually dilligently answer any and all questions thrown at me to the best of my abilities almost all the people on this forum arguing against the moon landings have practically never answered any of the questions posed by me or others arguing in favor of the landings — to the point that even neutral parties started pointing that out. In extension, you et al never address simple facts or refutations of your arguments, either. You simply pile on more or recycle old ones. Quite a telling pattern, no?

I’m still waiting for somewhat of a public acknowledgement by you that *none* of your 27 predictions of doom for the “Jagai” and “Madai” eclipses from 2009/2010 came even close to true. Wishful thinking? Likely.

So let’s just stick to Prabhupada’s last known mention on the matter and hope that this will finally lay to rest the flare-ups of using conspiracy garbage to override your own faith.

Letter to Tirthanga dasa, September, 1977
“Even it is true that they have landed on the Moon, so what is their accomplishment? If I come to Earth planet and land in the Sahara desert, then I say, “Oh, this planet is a barren desert, no one lives here?” The Moon may be like that or like this, so what does that help to our Krsna consciousness movement. We have nothing to do with Moon planet or this planet and that planet in Krsna consciousness. We simply want to serve to Krsna, that’s all.”

Please follow the instructions of your spiritual master. Thank you.

Comment posted by WillemV on January 3rd, 2011
34 Unregistered

After-thought on #28:

“I have given many different reasons offered by Shrila Prabhupada ’s as to why walking on the Moon was absolutely ripped out of the pages of the comic books.”

Prabhupada’s arguments can be summarized as follows:

1.In puranic cosmology the Moon is further away from Earth than the Sun, requiring a much longer journey than the 4 days it took the Apollo astronauts.

This is based on a lack of understanding of the differences between the cosmologies of the geocentric flat-Earth model of the Puranas and the orbital heliocentric model of modern astronomy. Neither Bhaktivedanta Swami nor his contemporary disciples appear to, at the least, have made a concession that the differences may warrant a mismatch in one-on-one comparison. Instead, the differences enforced the blanket dismissal of the modern understanding and stand-off between the two viewpoints.

2.The order of the days in the week prove that the Moon is further away than the Sun.

This argument (one of the most used by Prabhupada) is beyond me. In most European countries the week starts on Monday, not Sunday. There is no world wide conclusion as to how exactly the names of weekdays have come about or where a week starts. Ancient Celtic and Germanic cultures linked their weekdays to names of gods. There are theories that indicate that the weekdays are named in relation to the brightness of the planets as visible from the Earth with naked eyes and clear night skies, rather than their distance from the Earth. This, however, is not supported by facts. Other theories link the appearance of planets to hours of the day and extrapolate the sequence of weekdays from the planet that occupies the first hour of the day. Again, there is no conclusive correlation between the order of weekday names and the distance of the planets from the Earth.

It also deserves to be mentioned that none of Prabhupada’s brainy disciples ventured to even try and address it. Perhaps the only exception being:

Morning Walk, June 4, 1976, Los Angeles
Tamala Krishna: Prabhupada, it is very difficult to convince the people that they have not gone to the Moon. I mean, that’s a good logic, but they’ll think that’s very childish for us to say “Sunday first, Monday.”

Continued…

Comment posted by WillemV on January 3rd, 2011
35 Unregistered

After-thought on #28 continued…

3. The Moon is inhabited by higher beings that will not allow human transgression.
This is based on the puranic story about King Ravana, who sought to build a tower to the heavens so that human mortals could attain it without the required qualifications — a story that has its parallel in the story of the Tower of Babel.

4. The astronauts did not see the higher beings, so they were never there.
The expectation here is that these higher beings are visible at all times, whereas scripture makes it clear that they only appear to human mortals if they so desire.

5. All scientists are cheaters and rascals, hence they must be lying and cheating.
A character assasination technique used by Bhaktivedanta Swami throughout his crusade against modern science. Dozens of quotes to this effect can be found here: kuruvinda.com/ref3e.html

6. The Moon is a star and generates its own light, which is contrary to the findings of the Apollo project.
This is based on a lack of understanding of astrological terms, which make clear that nakshatra refers to a “luminary with influence,” not to a star as defined by modern astronomy. The moon is considered the chief luminary because it represents the mind.

7. The Moon is the abode of the god of vegetation and therefore must be full of vegetation, which is contrary to the findings of the Apollo project.
An assumption based on the idea that vegetables grow through the influence of the rays of the Moon and, again, based on the expectation that the deva culture of Chandra-loka should be perceivable by mere humans.

8. The astronauts must have gone somewhere else, like the puranic hellish planets or the planet Rahu, or, if they indeed went to the Moon, they must have landed in an uninhabited area.
Possible attempts to somewhat justify the success of the Apollo project? After all, Rahu is merely the ascending node of the Moon (not a physical planet) and the hellish planets from the fifth canto of the Bhagavata Purana are allegorical (as per Bhaktivinoda Thakur).

Comment posted by WillemV on January 3rd, 2011
36 Unregistered

Comment on #27:

“It is a historical fact, just as Lord Krsna lifting Govardhana hill is a historical fact. There is a whole section in Mahabharata and other Puranas describing how everything changes sizes in different yugas.”

There is all kinds of stuff in the Mahabharata and Puranas that are stories only, regardless of whether they mention Krishna or not. The mere fact that something is mentioned in these scriptures does not make it an absolute truth. Believe me, with such an attitude you will run into problems quickly.

In some Puranas Shiva is hailed as the Supreme Lord even by Krishna, whom he defeats over and over again. In the Harivamsa, the supplement to the Mahabharata that details Krishna’s childhood, the section on the Govardhana Puja (Visnu Parva 17.11-21) makes it very clear that the Vraja gopas and gopis were accustomed to slaughtering various animals, including buffalos, and that both they and Krishna in the form of Govardhana happily eat the meat.

Now what? Historical facts?

And how do the massive differences between the manuscripts of the Puranas and Mahabharata figure into these historical facts? The earliest manuscripts of the Mahabharata do not even contain the Bhagavad-gita. The Puranas contradict each other on many occasions, both in fact and fiction.

Giant cannibalistic demons? Witches? Magic powers? Curses? Talking animals? Shape shifters? Flying mountains? Eagles capable of interplanetary flight?

Did gemstones really originate from the blood, bile, teeth, fat, and intestines of Valasura (Garuda Purana)? If so, where do the thousands of other gemstones come from not mentioned in the Puranic story (which is limited to gemstones found in India only, by the way)?

The oldest manuscript ever found that mentions the yugas and their characteristics is the Yuga-Purana. I suggest you get yourself a copy. Makes for a very interesting read.

I also don’t expect you to answer any of my questions, by the way. They’re just some food for thought. Literalism is a hallmark of ISKCON, not of the early teachers in the Gaudiya line, nor of the many kingdoms and empires of India’s history in the last 3,000 years.

It is your choice to be disturbed, Shyamasundaraji, just as it is my choice not to be. Not much has changed in that sense since our discussions on canonical scriptures more than a decade ago.

I wish you and your wife the best.

Comment posted by WillemV on January 3rd, 2011
37 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

From Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Varnadi d in #20 said: Surya is horizontally at a further distance from Jambu-dvipa than Chandra.
In other words, the Sun is further away from Jambu-dvipa (where Bharata-varsa, the Earth, is) than the Moon.

Dear Varanadi Prabhu,

In your explanation you are forgetting to count that the Moon also has orbit. The Moon is not like the Pole star which sits in one place. The orbit of the Moon is as wide as the orbit of the Sun. Therefore, whether calculating horizontally or vertically, the Moon is further away from Bhu Mandala.

At the time of eclipse the orbit of the Sun and the orbit of the Moon intercept. At the time of full eclipse the Moon comes closest to Bhu Mandala, then climbs back up. The orbit of the Moon has 5% slope to the North (also meaning up). Two full eclipses can never occur one after another because of the trajectory of the Moon. If the scientists were smart enough they would have tried to land on the Moon at the time of a full eclipse because at that time he is the closest to us but those times are also dangerous. We all know about the magnetic force of the Moon; how the Moon controls the tides of the Ocean. At the time of eclipse the close proximity of the Moon with Bhu Mandala creates disasters. A large number of natural and human disasters are concentrated around eclipse days. For example, see the “Biblical” floods in Australia now in between two eclipses of 21 Dec 2010 (total lunar eclipse in Gemini) and 4 Jan 2011 (partial solar eclipse in Sagittarius). It takes about a month for the Moon to come down and climb up again from the point of eclipse. It takes about 3 months for the Moon to go up to the highest point in his orbit and about 3 months to come down to the lowest point in his orbit. For this reason eclipses occur every approximately every 6 months.

Your servant,
Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 3rd, 2011
38 Unregistered

Hari Hari!

I do think the Moon issue is a cause of considerable confusion in the devotee community.

Here are my thoughts on this issue.

1. The moon is a planet in the heavenly domain. The biological species of Homo Sapiens is not equipped to enter into this heavenly domain. The heavenly features are not visible to our senses.
2. A spaceship constructed out of matter cannot penetrate into the heavenly realm. Trishanku tried to enter the heavenly realm in his present body. He was only partially successful as he was banished by the Devatas and thrown out
3. There are places in the heavenly domain which are approachable by qualified people even from the present earthly domain. Examples of these are
a. Madhvachara meeting Veda Vyasa in the heavenly region of the Himalayas
b. Hanuman getting a Shiva Lingam from Kailash by entering into the Heavenly Kailash from the the earthly Mount Kailash
c. Bhima was thrown into the river after being fed poisoned food but entered into the heavenly domain of the Nagas.
4. Our modern attempts to enter heavenly regions by material means cannot be fully successful. This is the essence of Srila Prabhupada’s teachings in the current context. The present attempts by technologists to enter the Moon cannot enter the heavenly regions of the moon planet. The regions where the landing was allegedly carried out had only rock and sand and were not heavenly. This does not represent going to the moon. However, we must be careful before claiming that these trips are out and out hoaxes. The situation here may be similar to being on a boat on the ocean which is not a permanent residence in the ocean like the aquatics.
5. Our destination is not the moon planet but Krishna’s planet. The material nature is complex and impossible to fully understand. The material nature is not fully understood by Sukadeva, the modern technologists or even Brahma himself!

Comment posted by JaySriRadhe108 on January 4th, 2011
39 Kulapavana

More on ancient astronomers and their knowledge…
Ancient Greek astronomers going back to Hipparchus, and certainly including Ptolemy, knew very well how far away the moon was, and consequently how big it was, from parallax. (In addition, they also knew the size of the moon relative to the Earth, from the curvature of the edge of the Earth’s shadow on the moon during a lunar eclipse, which could be used to confirm the parallax measurement.) The Rambam, who learned his astronomy from Ptolemy and from Arab astronomers, even includes a correction to the moon’s apparent position in the sky, due to parallax, in the laws of the calendar (Kiddush Hachodesh) in the Mishneh Torah.
In Hilchot Yesodei Hatorah chapter 3, Maimonides lays out the geocentric model of the cosmos, epicycles and all. At 3:8, he notes that Earth is about 40 times larger than the moon, the sun is about 170 times larger than Earth, the sun is the largest of the “stars” (a category that includes planets too), and Mercury is the smallest.
In the Surya-siddhanta the planets are listed as follows in order of distance from the earth globe: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

Comment posted by Kulapavana on January 4th, 2011
40 Madhavananda Das (Orissa)

This has been an interesting discussion and although it seems that there are broadly two contending parties in this exchange, there seem to be valuable points offered from both “sides”. One has nicely stressed the importance of faith in Srila Prabhupada. While the other has cautioned us to be careful of blindly accepting the claims of Bill Kaysing and other conspiracy advocates. The first consideration is valuable for our bhajan and the second is important for devotees to be aware of before they decide to publicly quote the writings of Mr Kaysing and others as evidence that we didn’t go to the moon. As has been pointed out, if we want thinkers and the public in general to take us seriously we would do well to investigate the matter thoroughly before we try to arrange a marriage between Srila Prabhupada’s movement and the conspiracy advocates.

In Paramatma Sandarbha (105.6) Srila Jiva Goswami describes six things that should be considered to understand a book. The last of these is upapatti, the application of logic to understand the author’s intention. As has been pointed out, although Srila Prabhupada primarily made statements that the moon landing never took place, at other times he said things like, “Even if they did go…”, or, “They went and all they brought back was some rocks…” etc, etc. After considering what Srila Prabhupada said on this topic, it seems clear that his purpose was *not* to establish a point of astronomical geography. Rather, his purpose seems to emphasize that our goal is not to go to the moon, and that even if someone goes there, then, punar avartino — they will not be able to stay there for eternity, but will have to take birth again. As Srila Prabhupada stated:

So far going to the moon planet is concerned, don’t be very much interested in moon travel. Better that you travel on this planet and serve Krishna. We don’t care for such moon travel. Rather after this life we want to travel to Krishna. If even we go to Brahmaloka, the topmost planet, still we have to come down. So let the foolish waste their time in this way, while we will go directly to Krishna. (Letter to Vaikunthanatha. 6 September 1971)

(Continued below)

Comment posted by Madhavananda Das (Orissa) on January 5th, 2011
41 Madhavananda Das (Orissa)

(Continued from above)
As to whether they went there or not, that also doesn’t seem to be much of an issue. I think that everyone will agree that they didn’t go to the moon that is described in the Srimad Bhagavatam. Recently I visited Vrindavan, which is a manifestation of the spiritual world here on this earthly planet. However, I have to sadly admit that while there, I didn’t see Radha and Krishna along with their loving associates. I didn’t even see any recognizable kalpa-vriksha trees or cintamani stones. Frankly, if I had to report on the things that I did see (and smell) it would not make for very palatable reading.

In his book, “Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy”, Sadaputa Prabhu, one of the leading scientist disciples of Srila Prabhupada, offered a thoughtful reconciliation of this topic emphasizing the same point as above:

Srila Prabhupada has often said that the astronauts have never actually visited the moon. Since this is a very controversial topic, we will discuss his various statements on this issue at some length. As we will see, these statements mainly fall into two categories. These are (1) that the demigods will not allow human beings to enter higher planets because human beings are not qualified to do so, and (2) that the astronauts have not experienced the celestial opulences actually existing on the moon, and therefore they could not have gone there.

In SB 1.5.18p Srila Prabhupada states, “Some are trying to reach the moon or other planets by some mechanical arrangement…. But it is not to happen. By the law of the Supreme, different places are meant for different grades of living beings according to the work they have performed.” He has said that the moon, Venus, and the sun are inaccessible to the “inexperienced scientists” because they are higher planets that can be attained only by works done in the mode of goodness (SB 2.8.14p). He has described the attempt of the scientists of this earth to reach the moon as being as demonic as the attack of Rahu (SB 5.24.3p), and has said that such travel will be barred by Indra, who has a standard policy of preventing unqualified people from reaching the heavenly planets (SB 8.11.5p). Thus the immigration policy of the demigods is one important reason Srila Prabhupada gives for why the astronauts could not have gone to the moon.

(Continued below)

Comment posted by Madhavananda Das (Orissa) on January 5th, 2011
42 Madhavananda Das (Orissa)

(Continued from Sadaputa’s “Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy”)

Srila Prabhupada frequently uses the fact that the astronauts did not experience the celestial conditions on the moon as evidence that they did not go there. Thus he points out that the astronauts did not meet anyone on the moon, “what to speak of meeting the moon’s predominating deity” (SB 4.22.54p). In SB 6.4.6p and 8.5.34p he comments that since the moon-god is the presiding deity of vegetation, there must be vegetation on the moon, and yet the scientists say that it is a barren desert. In SB 2.3.11p, 8.2.14p, and 8.22.32p, he cites the scientists’ lack of knowledge of the variety of life on other planets as evidence that the moon trip failed. And in SB 10.3.27p he argues that those who reach the moon attain a life of 10,000 years, and thus the astronauts could not have gone.

Srila Prabhupada makes several statements suggesting that higher-dimensional travel is needed to reach the moon. Thus in SB 1.9.45p he refers to the futility of trying to use mechanical spacecraft, and says that finer methods are needed. In SB 3.32.3p he points out that “it is not possible to reach the moon by any material vehicle like a sputnik,” even though it hardly seems impossible to hurl a gross material object over a few thousand miles of space, or even several million. Finally, he indicates that to reach the orbit of the moon, it is first necessary to cross the Manasa Lake and Sumeru Mountain (LB, p. 48). As we have already pointed out, no ordinary trajectory to the moon will pass by these particular landmarks.

We therefore suggest that when Srila Prabhupada says that the astronauts did not go to the moon, he is referring to higher-dimensional travel to the celestial realm of the moon. From the Vedic point of view it is natural to interpret “travel to the moon” as travel in this sense. After all, if the moon is actually a celestial planet, then a journey to a place full of nothing but dust and rocks certainly couldn’t count as a trip to the moon.

In an interview with a reporter in 1968 Srila Prabhupada stressed that the human body is not suited to live in the atmosphere of the moon. When asked whether spacesuits could make up for this deficiency, he said that if we could use scientific methods to change the nature of our bodies, then we might be able to visit the moon. But he regarded this possibility as very remote, and said that the spacesuits would not be sufficient.

(Continued)

Comment posted by Madhavananda Das (Orissa) on January 5th, 2011
43 Madhavananda Das (Orissa)

(Continued from Sadaputa’s “Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy”)

When the reporter asked whether the inhabitants of the moon would be visible or invisible, Srila Prabhupada said that they would be “almost invisible,” with subtle material bodies (CN, p. 179). This implies that the world of the demigods, including their dwellings, food, conveyances, and so on, would also be invisible to us. By definition, such a world is higher-dimensional: it is invisible to us but not to the beings living in it. To enter into it, we would indeed require more than a spacesuit: we would also need an “invisible” bodily form that could interact with the world of the lunar demigods.

This leaves open the question of whether or not the astronauts traveled in three-dimensional space to the moon that we directly perceive in the sky. We have pointed out that a higher-dimensional location can have a three-dimensional projection, just as a three-dimensional office address in New York City (given by avenue, street, and floor) has a two-dimensional projection (namely avenue and street). Thus the astronauts may have gone to the three-dimensional location of the moon without making the higher-dimensional journey needed to actually reach the kingdom of Candra. This would be comparable to visiting Vrindavan on the earth without being able to perceive the spiritual world that is actually there.

This is a definite possibility, although we do not know for certain whether it is true. A second possibility is that the astronauts may have been deluded by the demigods at some stage of their journey and may never have reached the gross moon planet. Thus, Srila Prabhupada has suggested that the astronauts may have been diverted to the planet Rahu (SB 4.29.69p). A third possibility, of course, is that the true story of the moon trip has been obscured by manmade illusions.

In conclusion the issue is not whether we went to the moon or not, the issue is that we should become Krishna conscious.

Comment posted by Madhavananda Das (Orissa) on January 5th, 2011
44 Kulapavana

“Srimad Bhagavatam 5.20.13 Purport
From the descriptions in this verse, we can make an educated guess about the nature of the flames on the moon. Like the sun, the moon must also be full of flames because without flames there cannot be illumination. The flames on the moon, however, unlike those on the sun, must be mild and pleasing. This is our conviction. The modern theory that the moon is full of dust is not accepted in the verses of Srimad-Bhagavatam. In regard to this verse, Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura says, susaspani sukomala-sikhas tesam rocisa: the kusa grass illuminates all directions, but its flames are very mild and pleasing. This gives some idea of the flames existing on the moon.”

It would appear from this quote that at least some of the pronouncements Srila Prabhupada made with regards to Puranic cosmology are in the category of educated guesswork. We should respect Srila Prabhupada’s opinions but there is no need to force them on others, or attempt to turn such opinions into infallible truth.

Comment posted by Kulapavana on January 5th, 2011
45 Unregistered

Secret of the Scriptures
1. The scriptures like Bhagavatam and other Puranas are divinely inspired
2. This inspiration is received in the form of revelations in the minds of the sages like Suka, Vyasa, etc
3. The sages are highly advanced souls.
4. The original inspiration received by the sages is pure and represents the highest truth.
5. The sages need to represent this truth in a form comprehensible to the majority of people including the lowest strata of society
6. The sages, although pure and high advanced still possess a mind and body.
7. The complexities presented by 5. and 6. above mean that a certain portion of the scriptures is allegorical (point 5.) and also contains certain features to the mental conditioning of the presenting sage(point 6.)
8. Some of the illustrating stories of the scriptures are allegorical and illustrative, while they may be based on true facts at the same time
9. Features like cosmology are also based on absolute truth and inspiration received but might also have certain features due to the mental conditioning of the presenting sage (point 6)
10. Let us please aspire for pure devotional service without adulteration by gyana and karma. Let us not be distracted by side issues and concerns.
We aspire for a loving relationship with the blue eyed boy of Goloka and the divine damsel of Vraja. Let us please remove everything from our minds but this apiration. Let us depend on this faith and nothing else. This faith is a divine benediction which we need to treasure as our only possession.

Comment posted by JaySriRadhe108 on January 5th, 2011
46 Unregistered

Comment on #31:

“just like we are not qualified to speak about the technology used in the construction of the vimanas.”

Qualification is of no consequence. There is simply absolutely nothing known about the technology used by vimanas. There may not be any “technology” involved at all, as vimanas belong to the deva realm.

“Those aircraft were able to fly to other dimensions of the universe. But In Kali Yuga there are only “vimanas” which are referred In Vimanika Shasta a as artificial. There it is specifically mentioned that in Kali Yuga aircrafts cannot travel from one planet to another.”

I read my copy of the “Vaimanika Shastra” first back in 1996. Even without knowing where it came from it was clear that it held little merit. The models described, illustrations of which can be found in the back of the book, are aeronautically unsound contraptions with rinky-dinky wings and propellors that can only get airborn when thrown off a mountain.

But why would it show anything else? This book was compiled in the early 1900s by a nationalist fanatic who claims it was dictated to him by a mystic who had channeled it from the “akhasic records” in a trance. And thus you end up with, what one person aptly described as, 20th century fantasy flying machines with an Indian twist.

This so-called “sastra” is not sastra.

Comment posted by WillemV on January 5th, 2011
47 Unregistered

Comment on #37:

“The Moon is not like the Pole star which sits in one place.”

Polaris does not sit in one place. It merely appears static to us from a geocentric point of view because it is fairly well lined up with the Earth’s axis pointing North. Pointing to the South, a similar thing happens with the star Sigma Octantis.

The procession of the equinoxes causes the Earth axis to tilt in a different direction, completing a cycle in 26,000 years. This means that it points to different regions in the North and South over the centuries and therefore Polaris wasn’t always the pole star and won’t always be.

3,000 BC: Thuban
Currently: Polaris
3,000 AD: Gamma Cephei
5,200 AD: Iota Cephei

“…whether calculating horizontally or vertically, the Moon is further away from Bhu Mandala.”

Yes, that was my point. The Moon is further away from Bhu-mandala than the Sun.

The Earth we live on is not Bhu-mandala, though. It is one of nine varsas on the central island Jambu-dvipa. The Moon is closer to Jambu-dvipa than the Sun, which traverses the mountain range at the far edge of Bhu-mandala furthest away from Jambu-dvipa.

“If the scientists were smart enough they would have tried to land on the Moon at the time of a full eclipse because at that time he is the closest to us but those times are also dangerous.”

You conclude this because you equate Bharata-varsa with Bhu-mandala, wich is like equating Paris with France. Paris is not France, it is in France. Being close to France doesn’t necessarily mean being close to Paris. Eclipses occur on or very near to the plane of the ecliptic (Bhu-mandala).

The orbit of the Moon crosses two apogees and perigees every month, not just during eclipses.

The difference between the Moon’s apogee and perigee is only about 28,000 miles and the Moon journeys were planned so that they would cover the period when the Moon is getting closer to the Earth, facilitating a shorter distance for the return trip, which was at a much lower speed.

“A large number of natural and human disasters are concentrated around eclipse days.”

Utterly unsubstantiated, as shown here:

http://www.dandavats.com/?p=8025#comment-12054

Comment posted by WillemV on January 5th, 2011
48 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

From Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Varanadi d in # 27 says: There is all kinds of stuff in the Mahabharata and Puranas that are stories only, regardless of whether they mention Krishna or not. The mere fact that something is mentioned in these scriptures does not make it an absolute truth. Believe me, with such an attitude you will run into problems quickly.
In some Puranas Shiva is hailed as the Supreme Lord even by Krishna, whom he defeats over and over again. In the Harivamsa, the supplement to the Mahabharata that details Krishna’s childhood, the section on the Govardhana Puja (Visnu Parva 17.11-21) makes it very clear that the Vraja gopas and gopis were accustomed to slaughtering various animals, including buffalos, and that both they and Krishna in the form of Govardhana happily eat the meat.

So everything in our scriptures in just a fairy tale. Hmm, going in this direction is clearly showing an anti-Krishna Conscious attitude. This is your problem. Where are you going with this? Your attitude will not help you remember Shri Krishna as His loving devotees do. Even during His advent on Earth, the fact that Shri Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead was known to very few. There may have been contradictions about His personality even reflected in some scriptures to sway the mayavadis away but the fact is that He is the Supreme Lord. That fortunate soul who by the grace of the pure devotee becomes a devotee of Shri Krishna speaks favorably about the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Your attitude displays the opposite. It is very painful for a true devotee to listen about your “knowledge”.

If you mourn for what happened with your guru, as shown on your website, then you need help. It is a mistake to transfer your inner feeling to minimization of the great work of Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada will be shocked to hear how you propagate that Shri Krishna eat meat.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 5th, 2011
49 Unregistered

WiliamV and Kulapavana, it’s always refreshing to read your intelligent comments among so much nonsense. I admire your tolerance in continuing these discussions on Dandavats. Devotees would be better off if they decided to seriously study Bhaktivinoda Thakur, including his autobiography and Shukavak’s “Hindu Encounter with Modernity.” A main problem in these discussion is the confusion stemming from taking faith and belief to be identical. Shukavak does a great service explaining the difference and how one can maintain faith in the holy name and Krishna, and yet disregard certain beliefs.

Comment posted by anantaramdas on January 5th, 2011
50 Unregistered

I like the “Comment on #28:” by WilliamV.(post 32)
I am afraid what will happen to all the arguments if some day later we see another moon trip by scientists.
Will we say they were siddhas in previous life and hence they made it ?

I believe the very idea that none went to moon should have been informed by disciples to Srila Prabhupada. Hence we see Srila Prabhupada accepting the journey to moon in some places and denying the same in other places.

Comments on 36:

Wrt “The mere fact that something is mentioned in these scriptures does not make it an absolute truth.” I agree with the statement but not with the examples provided.

Purana is an historical account. It could be flawed.However Srutis are never flawed.
Infact Bhagavatam had many versions.

Supremacy of Vishnu is a well established fact and with proper logic we can reconcile the statements in Siva Purana.If some statements are contradicting, we give prejudice to the previous text like Ithihasas or srutis.

“The earliest manuscripts of the Mahabharata do not even contain the Bhagavad-gita.”
We will have to rely on the parampara than printing press on these matters.

“Did gemstones really originate from the blood, bile, teeth, fat, and intestines of Valasura (Garuda Purana)?”
The original constituents came from this blood which became rocks.
If Krishna is the seed giving father, it doesnt literally mean that my father is Krishna Himself(wrt this current physical body)

The following text is from From Sri Haridas Sastri:

There are six ways to understand that purpose of a sastra: 1) To analyse the introduction of the book, 2) the concluding statement, 3) what is repeated, 4) what has been established with logic, 5) what is the most extraordinary thing and 6) what is the fruit which has been stated in it. These six items have to be analysed to understand what is the sastra which he has written and what he wants to convey with it. Otherwise one will just misunderstand it, trying to take the literal meaning.

There are three ways the instructions are given in sastra: 1) One is like the vedas, which speak like the king, codana, that They just speak like that, they don’t even explain why it should be done. 2) The other is the puranic style, where they speak like a friend. 3) And the third is the sahityic style (implied meaning). And sahitya means that you make up things in it, there may be exaggerations, there may be different ways of saying it

Comment posted by scooty.ram on January 5th, 2011
51 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

CONCLUSION

1. The model of Bhagavatam is beyond our limited senses.

2. We have ROUND EYES and everything in our perception curves.

3. If we are to understand the model of Bhagavatam we have to un-curve our perceptions.

4. The scientist only use the means of the enlarged eyes, like telescopes, to calculate distance.

5. They are right in everything they see in their limited perception.

6. They are “traveling” to the Moon in 3d but the universe has more dimensions.

7. The scientist never went to the Moon and they will never go. There is no IF in this matter because they are limited to their 3d senses.

8. Our goal is to present the multi-dimensional picture of the Universal map as given in Bhagavatam. It is physically possible. Although, higher intelligence will be necessary to fully understand it.

9. We do not expect that everybody will understand the Universal model presented in Bhagavatam. Nonetheless, it will be made for the pleasure of Shri Krishna.

Abhaya Mudra Dasi

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 7th, 2011
52 Unregistered

From Patita Pavana das:

Varanadi and Madhavananda have responded to my mention of Bill Kaysing, the father of the “Moon Conspiracy Movement.” Actually, I consider Shrila Prabhupada the father of the Moon Conspiracy movement, because His Divine Grace plainly said that the scientists and politicians all understand the nature of this spaceman. That means there was a conspiracy. And Shrila Prabhupada said it first, from the moment he saw it on TV, as you can see from Smt Malati’s talk. So Prabhupada is the father of the Moon Conspiracy flim-flam, but let us now talk about Bill Kaysing who was a good and truthful person.
It is correct that Bill was a scholar at Rocketdyne, and not an engineer with NASA as I have been told. That is just a detail, and let us not get sidetracked. As far as I am concerned I do not follow Bill Kaysing. I follow Shrila Prabhupada. I have recently exchanged letters with the late Bill Kaysing’s daughter Wendy. She said that his favorite quote was to “stand up for truth even if the heaven’s crack.” He used to take her to a garden when she was a little girl and show her the flowers, calling them “God’s artistry.” This is the same example Shrila Prabhupada gave. Prabupada said that a flower is proof of the existence of God, the Supreme Artist. So whether Bill was an engineer or a janitor, he was a nice, theistic man and he spoke words of truth. I applaud that because Shrila Prabhupada valued truth leading to the Supreme Absolute Truth above all other things.

Varanadi, I have been to your website by your invitation. I was very sorry to read thereupon the story of your heartbreak that you suffered when your spiritual master let you and the other disciples down. Still, the mistakes of the guru are no reason to doubt the Founder Acharya who spoke as directly empowered by Shri Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

It is not hollow rittwicism to say that in the event of a fall-down by a spiritual master, that the grandfather Guru will take over. When a small child’s patents are lost, the grandfather and mother and adopt that child. Why should it be any different in our spiritual family? Prabhupada said that his disciples could pray to Shrila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur because the grandfather is always kinder than the father. So in this way, all members of ISKCON are part of the same family and lineage and there is no difference. I am bringing this up because I have heard of your criticisms of the Founder Acharya

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on January 7th, 2011
53 Unregistered

continued…
From Patita Pavana das
.
on some sites wherein doubts about the validity of Krishna consciousness are welcomed. To doubt the words of the Guru Maharaja and blaspheme him is compared to a mad elephant destroying the foliage in the woods. Similarly, a mad elephant offense at the feet of the pure devotee destroys one’s creeper of devotion. It is skating on very thin ice to offer evidence from outside our parampara that Krishna ate meat as you have stated in this discussion. Even today meat is not allowed in Vrindavana in pursuance of Lord Krishna’s example 5,000 years ago. We accept the words of guru-parampara as they emanate from our own sampradaya, and do not care for other sources whatever they say.
As far as we are concerned, anything that contradicts the verdict of our Acharya is a mis-translation or was presented for another time and clime that does not concern us in the least, and is therefore of no concern or consideration. It is simply a disturbance and we do not care for it. As far as those amongst us that wish to harmonize with outrageous criticisms that Shrila Prabhupada made any error whatsoever, I will never do that. That is not ISKCON.

Regarding the statements that you provided by Shrila Prabhupada that these scam artist “scientsts” did go to the Moon, such explanations were all issued in response to those misguided individuals who would argue in favor of the great lunar hoax. In Kali Yuga, there are many blockheads who argue against the cause of guru-vani and Krishna Consciousness incessantly. So for such persons as these, whether dressed in dhoti or tilak or not, there are those statements by Guru Maharaja:. “Even if they did go to the Moon, what is the benefit of bringing back rocks and sand with a price tag of 28 billion dollars?” None of the statements you provided, however, contradict in any way Prabhupada’s over riding instructions regarding the crass forgery of the lunar landing hoax.

continued…

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on January 7th, 2011
54 Unregistered

continued…
From Patita Pavana das:

Personally I joined ISKCON very happily in 1967-8 because I was tired of being lied to by teachers, priests, scientists, educators, politicians and the world at large. The truth I found then is the same that I serve to this day, the pure guru-vani emanating from the lotus lips of the empowered shuddha-bhakta. Understanding that truth is based upon a simple formula, following the four regulative principles and chanting 16 rounds of the mahamantra daily. Your website speaks in favor of drinking coffee on Ekadashi “because it is not a bean.” When Prabhupada said that coffee is an intoxicant, where is there a question of drinking coffee? Seriously, Varanadi, are you chanting your 16 rounds a day?

-Patita Pavana das Adhikary

Comment posted by Patita Pavana on January 7th, 2011
55 Unregistered

Dear all Prabhus and Matajis discussing this article, please accept my humble obeisances.

My opinion is that we should focus more on making our consciousness fully engaged on serving the lotus feet of Krishna and what most pleased our beloved Lord - preaching Krishna Consciousness. This is also what will please the most our spiritual master His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada. If we all use the time of making 50 comments for preaching, I think we will have better results in terms of spreading the teachings of Lord Chaitanya. Since we are part and parcels of the lotus feet of the Lord and our initial eternal position is of giving Him our loving service, our only aim must be striving to achieve this 24 hours thoughts and service for Krishna. If we fully engage our mind in Krishna Consciousness and Krishna activities we will lack the time of arguing each other . Krishna Consciousness is simple for the simple and the Gopis are example for that. Is it matter if we will have master degree or we are great philosophers, if we do not have Krishna? The loving service to the Lord is beyond all designations, but we often forget this simple fact. Srila Prabhupada said in his commentaries in Bhagavad Gita that even the Vedas have the only purpose of reaching the lotus feet of Krishna. Srila Prabhupada came to this material world directly from the spiritual one, making this great great sacrifice of delivering us, all the fallen down souls with the knowledge of Krishna. There is no other work in this material world than this of making our consciousness Krishna one and preaching this transcendental knowledge to as many fallen souls as we can.

Your Krishna servant,
lgs

Comment posted by lgs070 on January 8th, 2011
56 Unregistered

“Regarding the statements … provided by Shrila Prabhupada that these scam artist “scientsts” did go to the Moon, such explanations were all issued in response to those misguided individuals who would argue in favor of the great lunar hoax. In Kali Yuga, there are many blockheads who argue against the cause of guru-vani and Krishna Consciousness incessantly.”
.
Well, then, perhaps we should consider that as one of Prabhupada’s examples on how to interact with people who question radical lunar geology.
.
As Patita Pavana Prabhu herewith acknowledges, Prabhupada presented the possibility of the Apollo mission failing, as an opinion, and not as a siddhantic conclusion. And he presented this opinion without calling anyone a blockhead.
.
Prabhupada also presented a wide variety of alternate possibilities that would continue to uphold the integrity of the Puranic description of Chandraloka as a heavenly realm.
.
He further never made any of these concerns a central point of fidelity. I know of no initiation vows where Prabhupada asked: “What are the four regulative priinciples, do you agree to chant 16 rounds, AND, what is your position on the Apollo mission?”
.
It just does not appear to be an obsession for Prabhupada the way it appears here. The record shows Prabhupada was open to any number of possibilities, as long as the integrity of the sastras were upheld.
.
While Sukadeva Goswami plainly states no one knows the material energy perfectly (S.B. 5.16.4), it sounds as if some of our thread posters are not inconvenienced by that shortcoming.

Comment posted by sdmuni108 on January 12th, 2011
57 Unregistered

I must say that I am a little disappointed by this discussion. Some individuals (i.e., WillemV and others) have gathered and presented a large amount of sound data that concludes with a different viewpoint that is widely accepted by highly educated people and the general masses as well. This viewpoint is seemingly at odds with the consensus of most ISKCON members. However, I have not yet seen any valid arguments, or sound data set, that have been presented to validate the opposing viewpoint. All I have seen is judgement of character and other baseless refutations. This is supposed to be a “scientific movement”, or “scientific church”. Where are all the scientists? Where is the “devotee” astrophysicist to back up the claim that man cannot go to the moon? Does such a scientist exist? We need to at least be rigorous in our arguments for them to hold any ground.

Comment posted by bbd on January 12th, 2011
58 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

TEXT
 
krishna-nama kare aparadhera vicara
 
krishna balile aparadhira na haya vikara
 
SYNONYMS
 
krishna-nama—the holy name of Lord Kṛṣṇa; kare—takes; aparadhera—of offenses; vicara—consideration; krishna—Lord Kṛṣṇa; balile—if one chants; aparadhira—of the offenders; na—never; haya—becomes; vikara—changed.
 
TRANSLATION
 
There are offenses to be considered while chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. Therefore simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa one does not become ecstatic.
 
PURPORT
 
It is very beneficial to chant the names shri-krishn-chaitanya prabhu-nityananda before chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra because by chanting these two holy names-shri-krishn-chaitanya prabhu-nityananda-one immediately becomes ecstatic, and if he then chants the Hare Krishna maha-mantra he becomes free of offenses.
 
There are ten offenses to avoid in chanting the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. The first offense is to blaspheme great personalities who are engaged in distributing the holy name of the Lord. It is said in the shastra (Cc. Antya 7.11), krishna-shakti vina nahe tara pravartana: one cannot distribute the holy names of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra unless he is empowered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore one should not criticize or blaspheme a devotee who is thus engaged.
 
Shri Padma Purana states:
 
satam ninda namnah paramam aparadham vitanute
yatah khyatim yatam katham u sahate tad-vigarham
 
To blaspheme the great saintly persons who are engaged in preaching the glories of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra is the worst offense at the lotus feet of the holy name. One should not criticize a preacher of the glories of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra. If one does so, he is an offender. The Nama-prabhu, who is identical with Krishna, will never tolerate such blasphemous activities, even from one who passes as a great devotee.
 

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 17th, 2011
59 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

The second namaparadha is described as follows:
 
shivasya shri-vishnor ya iha guna-namadi-sakalam
dhiya bhinnam pashyet sa khalu hari-namahita-karah
 
In this material world, the holy name of Vishnu is all-auspicious. Vishnu’s name, form, qualities and pastimes are all transcendental, absolute knowledge. Therefore, if one tries to separate the Absolute Personality of Godhead from His holy name or His transcendental form, qualities and pastimes, thinking them to be material, that is offensive. Similarly, to think the names of demigods such as Lord Shiva to be as good as the name of Lord Vishnu-or, in other words, to think Lord Shiva and the other demigods to be other forms of God and therefore equal to Vishnu-is also blasphemous. This is the second offense at the lotus feet of the Lord.
 
The third offense at the lotus feet of the holy name, which is called guror avajna, is to consider the spiritual master to be material and therefore envy his exalted position. The fourth offense (shruti-shastra-nindanam) is to blaspheme Vedic scriptures such as the four Vedas and the Puraṇas. The fifth offense (artha-vadah) is to consider the glories of the holy name to be exaggerations. Similarly, the sixth offense (hari-namni kalpanam) is to consider the holy name of the Lord to be imaginary.
 
The seventh offense is described as follows:
 
namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhir
na vidyate tasya yamair hi shuddhih
 
To think that since the Hare Krishna mantra can counteract all sinful reactions one may therefore go on with his sinful activities and at the same time chant the Hare Krishna mantra to neutralize them is the greatest offense at the lotus feet of hari-nama.

The eighth offense is stated thus:
 
dharma-vrata-tyaga-hutadi-sarva-
shubha-kriya-samyam api pramadah
 
It is offensive to consider the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra to be a religious ritualistic ceremony. Performing religious ceremonies, following vows and practicing renunciation and sacrifice are all materialistic auspicious activities. The chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa maha-mantra must not be compared to such materialistic religiosity. This is an offense at the lotus feet of the Lord.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 17th, 2011
60 Abhaya Mudra Dasi

The ninth offense is described as follows:
 
ashraddadhane vimukhe ‘py ashrinvati
yash copadeshah shiva-namaparadhah
 
It is an offense to preach the glories of the holy name among persons who have no intelligence or no faith in the subject matter. Such people should be given the chance to hear the chanting of the Hare Krishna mantra, but in the beginning they should not be instructed about the glories or the spiritual significance of the holy name. By constant hearing of the holy name, their hearts will be purified, and then they will be able to understand the transcendental position of the holy name.
 
The tenth offense is as follows:
 
shrute ‘pi nama-mahatmye yah priti-rahito narah
aham-mamadi-paramo namni so ‘py aparadha-krit
 
If one has heard the glories of the transcendental holy name of the Lord but nevertheless continues in a materialistic concept of life, thinking “I am this body and everything belonging to this body is mine [aham mameti],” and does not show respect and love for the chanting of the Hare Krishna maha-mantra, that is an offense.

Comment posted by Abhaya Mudra Dasi on January 17th, 2011

Comments are closed. Please check back later.

 
 
Home » The Great Moon Landing Hoax
 
  • Post Details

Author: Administrator Administrator's website Administrator's email
Post Date: Saturday, December 18th, 2010
Categories: Articles
Trackback: Trackback
 
  • Last update: Wed July 30

  • Who is online

    • 28 currently online
    • 170 maximum concurrent
    • 11762032 total visitors

    Registered users online

Giri-nayaka das -
  • Registered users: 6301

  • Navigation

  • -OTHER INCOMING LINKS
  • BC VTE Bhakti Sastri Online
  • Bhaktimarga Swami's blog
  • Bhaktivedanta Book Trust
  • Bhaktivedanta College
  • Bhaktivedanta Institute (Alachua)
  • Bhaktivedanta Manor
  • Bhaktivedanta VedaBase Network
  • Bhaktivedanta Vedabase Online
  • Cooking with Kurma
  • Darshan of SS Radha-Londonisvara
  • Dharmapatnis
  • Diary of a Traveling Preacher
  • Euro GBC
  • Forbidden Archeology
  • Gaudiya Vaisnava texts
  • Indradyumna Swami Media
  • ISKCON Bangalore Official
  • ISKCON Deity Worship Ministry
  • ISKCON Health & Welfare Ministry
  • ISKCON Ministry of Educational Development
  • ISKCON's Congregational Development Ministry
  • Iskcon-desire-tree
  • Iskcon.com
  • Jayadvaita Swami's personal site
  • Krishna Dharma's website
  • Krishna Lila Entertainment
  • Krishna.com
  • Krishnamarriage.com
  • matchlessgifts.org
  • Mayapur Academy
  • Mayapur Days
  • Mayapur International School
  • Ministry of Educational Development
  • Our Spiritual Journey
  • Parisisvara
  • prabhupadavani.org
  • Radio Krsna Central
  • Saligrama Sila site
  • Sridham Mayapura
  • The Bhaktivedanta Archives
  • The ISKCON Sannyasa Ministry
  • The Official GBC site
  • Trivikrama Swami
  • Vaisnava Calendar
  • Vaisnava Calendar Reminder
  • Vaisnava care website
  • Vanipedia
  • varnashrama.org
  • Vedic Astrologer
  • Vedic knowledge online
  • Vedic view on controversial issues
  • Website in Bengali language
  • Yadunandana Swami's personal site
  • Alachua Temple Live Podcast
  • Comments by author
  • Donate through searching
  • Founder Acarya
  • Incoming Links
  • Iskcon News TV Channel
  • Iskcon Radio stations
  • Iskcon Universe Feed
  • Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
  • Krishna conscious "youtube"
  • Krishna Conscious Media
  • Most commented articles
  • Most read articles
  • New Dwaraka Archived Lectures
  • Polls
  • Stats
  • Temple webcams
  • Thanks!
  • The last seven day's most read articles
  • Report from the third Annual Educational Conference at the Bhaktivedanta College in Radhadesh
  • An Appointment with Mr. Death
  • Krishna Balarama Ratha Yatra and Sri Balarama Purnima
  • The King of Jogyakarta meets Lord Jagannatha: Ratha Yatra in Ramadan (125 photos)
  • Zambia’s President HE Dr Kenneth Kaunda gets Srila Prabhupada’s books and Bhagavad Gita
  • Black Holes And Gaping Mouths
  • I Am Looking Pujari Service Any Iskcon Temple Outside Of India
  • Prosperity of the Earth Culture
  • WSN June 2014 - World Sankirtan Newsletter
  • ISKCON Boston Hosts Interfaith “Field Trip”

     
    "Artwork and photos courtesy of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust International, Inc. www.krishna.com. Used with permission"