Response to Priyavrata Prabhu’s open letter
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By Vaivasvata dasa
Dear Priyavrata Prabhu,
Namonamah. Jay Srila Prabhupada.
This is in response to your “Open letter to Bhakti Vikas Swami” (http://www.dandavats.com/?p=9969). You write that Bhakti Vikas Maharaja’s recorded class, “Some Concerns About ISKCON”, uses “selective quotes and straw man arguments” to unfairly align “Midday meals and Food for Life with mundane welfare.” Your seek to support this statement with a handful authoritative statements, including:
“The Krishna consciousness movement is based on this principle: Chant the Hare Krishna maha mantra at every moment, as much as possible, both inside and outside of the temples, and, as far as possible, distribute prasada. This process can be accelerated with the cooperation of state administrators and those who are producing the country’s wealth. Simply by liberal distribution of prasada and sankirtana, the whole world can become peaceful and prosperous.” (SB 4.12.10)
It is unlikely that the Prabhupada quotes in your letter support your case. The quotes you give state general principles. You have yet to show how they apply specifically to MDM. You also disregard statements by Prabhupada where he deals specifically with distribution of prasadam in the context of welfare work, which is what MDM is.
In applying Prabhupada’s teachings (including the quotes in your letter) to MDM the following facts should be taken into account:
1. It is open to question whether what MDM distributes is indeed prasadam. I have seen one of MDM’s kitchens - it’s a modern, mechanised kitchen with big machinery and a small picture of Radha-gopinath. I am not confident that the persons cooking the bhoga are of such a standard that we can assume Sri Krishna accepts the bhoga being offered. They do not, I am told, all chant 16 rounds, for example.
2. According to an email from a MDM fund raiser (excuse his English): “Midday Meal is a strategic program to liberate the underprivileged children from scourge of hunger and malnutrition”. I think we can safely conclude this presentation comes within the mundane welfare work category. Other quotes: “ISKCON Food Relief Foundation is a non-profit, non-religious, non-sectarian charitable trust.” Non-religious, yet devotional?
3. The purpose is clearly mundane: “The purpose of implementing this scheme is to facilitate the Government in increasing the enrollment in these schools, reducing the drop out rate and improving the attendance.” The reason they want to improve attendence is to “eradicate following four major problems of the society at large”, namely:
“A. Starvation and Malnutrition: By providing nutritious meals to the hungry children not only their hunger is taken care of but meal is so nutritious that there is no question of malnutrition.”
Prabhupada was not concerned with the question of malnutrition.
“B. Illiteracy: When this poor hungry children come to school on the pretext of getting meal, in the process they get educated. Empowered with education when they grow up they can discriminate between right and wrong and they become responsible citizens and add value to society.”
Prabhupada was totally opposed to the modern educational system. He felt there is no need for anyone to receive a modern education, nor for the majority of people to be educated at all.
“C. Livelihood: Empowered with education when these children grow up they are in much better position to secure a decent job and they are not burden on society.”
“Empowered by education”? Apart from the fact that most educational institutions in India are a parody at best, even if they were not the idea that people should be educated so they can get a “decent job” is completely opposed to Prabhupada’s philosophy.
“D. Child Labor: Below poverty line parents have a major difficulty to even get two times meals daily. Their priority is not education; their priority is food so they send their children to work instead of school. But when the meals are served in the school, parents send their children to school instead of work. So the child labor issue is very well taken care of.”
Child labour is another issue Prabhupada would not have been concerned about.
“In this way these poor hungry children who would have otherwise become a big nuisance to society when they grow up because of hunger, lack of education and unemployment, with the help of School Equals Lunch project can become healthy, educated, employed and responsible citizens of INDIA.”
‘Responsible citizens of India’ is also something completely unrelated to Prabhupada’s movement. Prabhupada was a revolutionary. He was not interested in becoming a respectable part of modern society, but in completely revolutionising it.
4. The marketing materials are equally mundane. One poster apparently addressed at youth states “I will not drink like a maniac this Saturday” followed by “Save one binge. Donate Rs 900 to keep a child in school for a year”. To my mind, there is an implied message in this that drinking like a maniac each Saturday is normal, but that one should abstain from it one Saturday a year to keep a child in school.
My favorite, however, is “Kichdi has the power to make India a super power”. If India is to become the next America then I doubt Prabhupada would have been supportive.
They also have ’signature fund raising events’ with themes like “Celebration of childhood”. This is simply mundane sentimentalism.
5. The children who eat the prasadam (if it is prasadam) do not know it is prasadam, nor what prasadam is. Some of them have a vague idea where it comes from (ISKCON). I strongly doubt that they will magically become devotees en masse simply by having a little prasadam at school without being taught to abstain from sinful activities, sadhana, etc.
Now that we have a clear idea of what MDM is, do you really think that this is the sort of thing Srila Prabhupada thought should be “extended universally” or at least “as far as possible”? In light of the quote referred to by Maharaj in his class (concerning the Andhra Pradesh Relief Fund), among others, I strongly doubt it.
Now, it could be argued that all this mundane propaganda is just a trick to actually feed prasadam. While Prabhupada did at times ‘trick’ people into becoming devotees I really doubt he would have gone to this extent. The reason I doubt that is that he often emphasised clear, straight forward preaching.
The conclusion is that rather than spending so much time, money and energy on MDM - which includes having full-time fund raisers going from company to company to raise money to feed children with mundane welfare propaganda - the same time, money and energy should be put into actual preaching activities, particularly book distribution, which Prabhupada stressed much more than prasadam distribution. Prasadam distribution should not be stopped, but should be done in conjunction with preaching (kirtan, philosophy, etc) as was Prabhupada’s desire.
Your servant,
Patrick Boch
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I suggest that those who are disciples of Bhakti Vikasa Swami identify themselves as such, by putting the initials of their guru, such as ……………. das - BVS in their signature, so that one may get a feel of what may be prompted by a will from the part of the disciple to back up his guru’s stand (sometimes, no matter what) and what may be considered as less partial or more objective, in the absolute sense…
Chant Hare Krishna and be happy was the moto of Srila Prabhupada.
So, I hope that by chanting Hare Krishna, everyone is happy and has better things to do than just criticizing others and the service they perform and does hopefully concentrate on their own service, so as to hopefully, please Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga.
Thank you
Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada
Puskaraksa das - GGS
PS: Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja justified revealing his mind publicly and criticizing a number of devotees along with the services they rendered so that his disciples or potential disciples could know what his stand was. So, it would seem quite legitimate that his disciples return the favor and stand as such… This will clarify the motivations of everyone and may avoid the fire to spread and prevent ISKCON members from making a mountain out of a molehill…
Hare Krishna
Dear devotees engaged in the Food for Life projects all over the world, please do not be discouraged and continue your important service. Let those who criticize you start competing with you in the number of meals distributed. That is a real test of sincerity. Talk is cheap so please do not be disturbed by mere verbal criticism.
Dandavat pranams to all devotees who distribute prasadam…
Your servant - Kula-pavana dasa
It is interesting to see that Maharaja hasn’t defended himself on this issue.
Devotees in general, and sannyasis and gurus in particular, should be very careful of what they say, how they say it and also what they do. The lesson to be learned in that sannyasis and gurus are under scrutiny about what they say and what they do. Perhaps Maharaja didn’t intend to offend the other party, but the damage is already done.
Distributing prasadam (even if done with no other preaching program alongside) is definitely NOT a mundane undertaking. If it is done under the guidance of ISKCON leadership, it should be encourage and promoted!
Yugala Kishor dasa
Alachua, FL
Hare Krishna Prabhu
After reading your response, I believe that your interpretation of Srila Prabhupada’s views are distorted. Srila Prabhupada has expressed that he did not want people within a certain radius of the temple to go hungry. He was very much for feeding the hungry and has expressed this sentiment in many ways including criticising political leaders for not ensuring equitable distribution of land for growing crops.
The key question is whether this program is being dovetailed with promoting Krishna Consciousness. If the food is being offered to the Lord and then distributed it is prasadam, and it does not matter whether it is made in big machine or small machine. The important consideration is hygience and offering with love and devotion. If these are lacking then one’s suggestion should be to incorporate them and not to throw the “baby with the tub”.
Let us appreciate the good work done and be cautious in becoming fanatics by not properly interpreting Srila Prabhupada’s vision and mission.
Haribol.
Your servant
Muralidhara dasa
By way of post script, I would like to encourage everyone to listen to Bhakti Vikas Maharaja’s class:
http://audio.iskcondesiretree......=0&y=0
You cannot form an opinion about this debate without doing so and honestly speaking Maharaj raises some questions in the class that really need to be addressed by ISKCON leaders if ISKCON is to remain within Srila Prabhupada’s mandate.
Thank you Vaivasvata Prabhu for your analysis. I myself have visited the MDM web-site and am still wondering why such a project is passing under ISKCON name. Some devotee has recently commented under Priyavrata Prabhu’s “open letter” that prasadam distribution is transcendental even if done without kirtan or distribution of transcendental knowledge. But nobody argues against that. The real question is : should such prasadam distribution be done under the auspices of ISKCON officialy? To my understanding of Prabhupada’s instructions on this matter - No. If some devotee likes to feed prasadam to the poor in government schools, or in cataclysmic zones on the planet - let him or her do that - but Prabhupada would not like ISKCON name to be there. The evidence of his reply to Andhra Pradesh CM is a proof to this.
I am providing once more the quote ffrom Prabhupada’s letter to Giriraj Swami, where Prabhupada is giving practical guidance how to distribute prasadam:
“Make our temple so nice that everyone who comes is offered some prasada. Not that we are after poor men. It is nice that we are feeding 200 daily, but gradually try to increase. But do not advertise, we shall be self-advertising. And do not go to poor areas, THIS IS NOT OUR PHILOSOPHY. Our philosophy is prasada distribution, without discrimination rich or poor.”
In conclusion, I am still in anticipation of Priyavrata Prabhu’s reply to all this evidence. He hasn’t yet commented anything on Gokul Candra Prabhu’s points, even though twice requested.
ys, Nityananda dasa
I check out the Mid Day Meals website and was saddened to see, or should I say not see, any mention of Krishna, prasadam, Srila Prabhupada anywhere on the site. I am wondering whether the food they cook is even actually offered.
Dear Vaivasvata Prabhu,
PAMHO AGTSP
This is an extremely well written article. It directly addresses the core of the issue. It is quite likely that those who started the MDM program had good intentions, but as the saying goes - the path to hell is paved with good intentions.
The MDM websiste states: “A Project of Government of Maharashtra Implemented by Iskcon Food Relief Foundation”. It should have been pretty obvious that by being subservient to a karmi government instead of being subservient to Krishna, one will have to significantly deviate from proper standards.
The Salvation Army would have never thought that they would one day be offering pickup/towing services from broken cars, but once you start entertaining expectations of mundane governments and mundane people, the expectations keep on increasing and thats what happens.
Now that the issue has been identified, we should also offer solutions. If the contractual agreement with the Govt. of Maharashtra allows, IFR should immediately break the contract and thus avoid the risk of being expected to be involved in other mundane projects in future that will otherwise be inevitably offered to ISKCON for implementation. If not, the contract shouldn’t be renewed after its current term.
Hopefully these recommendations will be implemented, otherwise it is quite likely that we will see Hare Krishna Towing and Pick-up services in future. I seriously hope and pray that it doesn’t go that route.
Hare Krishna
Your Servant,
Radhananda Dasa
Hare Krsna. Vaivasvata prabhu presented Midday Meal’s/Food for Life’s mission statement showing how their food/prasadam distribution is actually mundane welfare work and not pleasing to Srila Prabhupada. However, another deviation I feel, and maybe the most important not mentioned here is Food for Life/Midday Meal is advertised as being Vegan. This is a direct insult to Govinda, the Cowherd Boy, who is the object of our engagement in Krsna Consciousness. I followed the link again from the comments to “Open Letter to Bhakti Vikasa Swami ” to get the Vegan references but cannot find it. Perhaps it has been removed.
It may be worth reflecting again on the following goals of Food for Life/Midday Meal as stated on their websites and to realize how this is clearly a deviation from Srila Prabhupada’s purpose.
The purpose of implementing this scheme is to facilitate the Government in increasing the enrollment in these schools, reducing the drop out rate and improving the attendance.” The reason they want to improve attendence is to “eradicate following four major problems of the society at large, namely:
A. Starvation and Malnutrition: By providing nutritious meals to the hungry children not only their hunger is taken care of but meal is so nutritious that there is no question of malnutrition.”
B. Illiteracy: When this poor hungry children come to school on the pretext of getting meal, in the process they get educated. Empowered with education when they grow up they can discriminate between right and wrong and they become responsible citizens and add value to society.”
C. Livelihood: Empowered with education when these children grow up they are in much better position to secure a decent job and they are not burden on society.”
D. Child Labor: Below poverty line parents have a major difficulty to even get two times meals daily. Their priority is not education; their priority is food so they send their children to work instead of school. But when the meals are served in the school, parents send their children to school instead of work. So the child labor issue is very well taken care of.”
In this way these poor hungry children who would have otherwise become a big nuisance to society when they grow up because of hunger, lack of education and unemployment, with the help of School Equals Lunch project can become healthy, educated, employed and responsible citizens of INDIA.
The mahatmas are always ready to render such service to the Lord with great determination. In this regard His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvaté Thakura once made this comment in a lecture:
“The neophyte Vaishnava devotees’ ringing the bell even once during worship of the Deity of the Supreme Lord is a million times more valuable, spiritually and otherwise, than the charitable fruitive workers building many hospitals, feeding thousands of the poor, or building homes, or even the empirical philosophers’ Vedic studies, meditation, austerities, and penances.”
The mahatmas have shown the perfect path of charity: devotional service to the Lord. If anyone ignores this path and instead builds hospitals, his effort to help humanity is a mere pretense. Humanity can never reap any permanent advantage from such activities. Indeed, the number of patients only increases along with the number of hospitals. And as for feeding the poor, this will never eradicate poverty, but encourage it. Frankly speaking, we are not against opening hospitals or feeding the poor, or any other such humanitarian service. But what we have learned from our beloved spiritual master is that when devotional service to the Lord is neglected, every other activity is illusory and futile. Without genuine devotional service, even opening hospitals and feeding the poor in the name of Lord Krishna is futile. Spiritual groups that do not strictly follow in Lord Caitanya’s line cannot comprehend this because they do not wish to abide by the instructions of the mahatmas. They do not follow Lord Caitanya’s injunction to be “more humble than a blade of grass.” If they were that humble, they would give up their pride in being the doer of good deeds, the wisest person, the most devoted, and so on.
(Renunciation Through Wisdom - His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada)
Dear Vaivasvata Prabhu,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
You wrote:
“It is open to question whether what MDM distributes is indeed prasadam.”
Whether MDM distributes prasadam or not is another question, but it is clear that they do not advertise it as prasadam. There is no mention of the word “prasadam” or at least “spiritual food” anywhere directly or indirectly on the three official website of the MDM. They are not allowed by “nonsectarian” government of India.
i) www.middaymeal.com
ii) www.delhimdm.com
iii) http://www.schoolequalslunch.c.....outus.html
The brochure of the program called “School equals Lunch” also doesn’t mention “prasadam” directly or indirectly. Moreover in the recent brochure a picture of school boy is featured and urged to donate for his school uniform, pair of shoes etc. Also see photos where MDM is being promoted by bollywood actors and karmis:
http://www.schoolequalslunch.c...../news.html
Even our own Hindi BTG (October 2011 issue) doesn’t mention “prasadam” while featuring news of MDM:
“In India, ISKCON Food Relief Foundation (IFRF) has partnered with the Government of the state of Jharkhand and local Fortune 500 company Tata Steel to build a new huge kitchen, which will deliver meals to 65,000 underprivileged school children in Jharkhand’s East Singhbhum and Saraikela-Kharsawa districts.”
In India, there are already dozens of mayavadi institutions engaged in welfare activities. For instance, Ramakrishna mission, Swaminarayana, Satya Sai Organization etc. They are all supposed to be spiritual but their activities are mundane welfare.
I am also concern that it won’t take long when general public of India would put ISKCON in the same category. I really doubt that Srila Prabhupada would be pleased with that.
Your servant,
Vrindavana Chandra Das
Priyavrata Prabhu wrote on facbook:
Paul Rodney Turner
“For five days Raghunatha dasa Gosvami took prasadam at the temple, but later he would stand at the Simha-dvara gate and eat only whatever he could gather by alms. Later he lived by taking alms from various chatras, or food distributing centers.” (CC Antya Cpt 6 summary)
Just imagine if there were no FFL centers back in those days!?
You have misunderstood the power of prasadam
Prasadam is appriciated by devotees but by taking prasadam even non devotees gradually will get the full benefit.
Bali-mardana: “I believe I’ve heard you said in other lectures that a person who takes prasadam, even a plant or a…, any kind of living entity who takes prasadam or hears the name, that it will come back at least to human form of life. Is that correct?
Prabhupada: No, if he’s devotee, then he’ll come. But this taking of prasadam, or hearing Hare Krsna mantra is advancement for becoming a devotee. But if he takes prasadam not as ordinary prasadam, foodstuff, he believes that “This is remnants of foodstuffs given to God,” if he understands this philosophy, then guaranteed. If he takes the prasadam as ordinary food, “All right, these people are distributing, prasa… Let me take it. It is very tasteful,” that will give him chance to accept prasadam next, next, next… In this way, one day he’ll come to the point that “This prasadam is not ordinary foodstuff.” Then he’ll… There is guarantee. Because only the devotee can appreciate that “This prasadam is not ordinary foodstuff. It is Krsna’s remnant of…” Therefore, he understands Krsna. That is said in the Bhagavad-gita, janma-karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. In truth, when he understands, then his life is guaranteed. Why guaranteed? He goes back to home next life. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply can understand what is Krsna and what is your relationship with Krsna, that is sufficient to take you back to home, back to Godhead. That is sufficient. It is so nice. ”
And we always learn that Bhagavat prasadam gives a human body , so who will object?
The spiritual master encourages distribution of prasadam (remnants of Krsna’s food) to the public. Ours is not a dry philosophy–simply talk and go away. No. We distribute prasadam, very sumptuous prasadam. In every temple, we offer prasadam to anyone who comes. In each and every temple we already have from fifty to two hundred devotees, and outsiders also come and take prasadam. So prasadam distribution is another symptom of the genuine spiritual master.”
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on Gurvastam, Stockholm, 09-09-73
Hari bol prabhus,
Just so it doesn’t get lost in the shuffle, Bhakti Vikasa Swami has personally responded to this issue. His comments are under the original article by Priyavrata prabhu. It is a very nice response. Hare Krishna.
Here’s the crux of the matter.
My propositions (which are clearly stated in sastra which I quoted in the proof from Narada Pancaratra about the supreme spiritual nature of prasadam) is:
1. Prasadam is non-different from Lord Krsna. Therefore it is absolute. It is always spiritual.
2. Therefore giving it at any time, place or circumstance is a spiritual activity not mundane.
Basu Ghosh prabhu and BVKS and KK and JS believe:
1. Prasadam when given at the wrong time, place or circumstance becomes a mundane social activity.
The real problem is that you all try to use the particular letters/teachings of Srila Prabhupada on prasadam distribution at particular times, places and circumstances to support your claim absolutely, when they clearly are applied on a pragmatic and relative basis.
This is very similar to the rtviks who use particular time, place and circumstance letters/teachings of Srila Prabhupada to support absolutely their anti-sastric idea of rtvikism.
It all sounds so reasonable when you interpret the cherry picked quotes in a certain fanatical way.
The problem with rtvikism is that we all know that it is not supported by sastra.
Similarly the theory that Sri Krsna prasadam becomes mundane when it is distributed as certain times, places and circumstances is also not supported by sastra.
Your contention that Prasadam, which is non-different from Sri Krsna, can become mundane when it is distributed at particular times, places and circumstances is therefore rejected.
QUOTES
“Ganges water, the intelligence of the devotee of Lord Visnu, the vow of Ekadasi, and food given by the Lord’s devotees are always sanctified.” Hari Bhakti Vilasa 9.283
“The Bhattacarya said, “‘One should eat the maha-prasadam of the Lord immediately upon receiving it, even though it is dried up, stale or brought from a distant country. One should consider neither time nor place. CC Mad 6.225
“‘The prasadam of Lord Krishna is to be eaten by gentlemen as soon as it is received; there should be no hesitation. There are no regulative principles concerning time and place. This is the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.’”
PURPORT
These (two above) verses are quoted from the Padma Purana. CC Mad 6.226
END QUOTES
NOW, Please quote the sastra, not the time, place and circumstance letter from Srila Prabhupada but the sastra that states that Prasadam becomes mundane due to some time, place and circumstance consideration?
Respected Prabhus,
Please accept my humble obeisances.
All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
It has been asked to reveal identity and linkage with His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Swami and I confirm as disciple of HH Bhakti Vikasa Swami.
I am not here for Cyberwars and arguments nor i wish to protest on responses here. But I would like all wonderful devotees to share actual data/metrics rather than Shastras/ email excerpts shared till now.
Everything quoted from Shastras or Prabupada is perfect but our “implementation may or may not be perfect” and thats the point we have to resolve. We have to think are we doing the right actions in limited time we have?
I hope if we take this “Creative Criticism” in spirits and words and aspire to make incremental progress towards perfection.
Say for one of the Concerns “Prasadam is not cooked and distributed by devotees.” This can be handled very amicably by leaders in Food for Life providing detailed statistics like number of people working on preparation and distribution chanting certain number of rounds and following regulative principles.
Also they should provide program performance by how many new devotees they are making month over month or year over year and not by number of plates distributed.
His Holiness Bhakti Vikasa Swami is directing His disciples or future disciples on His position. The discussion will be far better if People having concerns articulate their responses with data points on current process. So far, i have not heard any metrics based responses and the current Website and collaterals are no less than Perfection in Mundane Marketing that is already discussed.
So i request prabhus who have responded to provide some Metrics and results.
I wish devotees in Food for Life report they bringing 1,000s of new devotees. Likewise it would be real Joy if some big temples not in current Top Book Distribution Temple list start showing up as Top Book distributors for BBT books in coming years.
Srila Prabhupada wanted ISKCON be a society where we are interacting like family members. Mix of seniors, juniors and just like a joint big family, people wish each others good and interact. It may seem a conflict at a point in time, but the intentions are to be internalized and reflected and the overall movement will get a good direction.
Hope we all can be instruments of given better ISKCON to new generations to come and not leave a Salvation Army analogy behind
Your humble servant Damodara Vamsidhari Das