Comments Posted By Bhakta Matty
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Dear Adikarta prabhu. /”\ Pranams.
Please accept my humble obeisance’s. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
All glories to your service!!!
I have just recently set up a face book page ( Go raksya nework ) just for all those devotees in ISKCON and people outside of ISKCON who are currently engaged in full or part time cow protection, agriculture and farming work. It is a way in which we can communicate and come together in a more productive and easier way to help push forward cow protection and agriculture within our ISKCON society and to also to share our ideas and help each other in every and anyway that is possibly needed to further promote cow protection more at the fore front within ISKCON. Also globally to increase the need for cruelty free milk amongst the devotee community and other people who ultimately want to see the end to the needless slaughter of our Holy Go mata. The face book page/forum is open to all those souls who have a genuine concern for the future of our beloved go mata and to push towards the goal of self sufficiency as was Srila Prabhupada`s desire for all ISKCON farming communities.
I hope this message finds you in good health.
Jai go mata!
Yours in the service of Guru and Gauranga.
Your humble servant Bhakta Matty
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 22, 2013 @ 1:40 pm
…Continued…The problem is we are not willing to make the sacrifice of going for land and protecting cows and working with the bulls. It is difficult in the western world no doubt for many reasons so what to do? We should preach and preach as best we can to evoke a change of consciousness which is what I am trying to instigate here. Srila Prabhupada did many times stress that the varnasrama is already there – we just need to convince those who are in positions to adopt the principles. i.e. farmers to turn to KC and convert their businesses into devotional ones. It’s tough for them also due to artificial financial control and legal restraints. People are also not used to the necessary austerity that would go along with it. Then what to do?
Srila Prabhupada also states. “So similarly, vaisya. Vaisya, they should be trained in three things, productive — krsi-go-raksya-vanijyam vaisya-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.44] — krsi, agriculture; go-raksya, cow protection. Go-raksya. That is essential, agricultural and cow protection. And vanijyam. Vanijyam means trade. If there is excess milk product, if there is excess grain product, then you can sell to others.”
Extract from >>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.16.1 — Los Angeles, December 29, 1973
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 8, 2013 @ 5:37 pm
Hare Krsna Ananda prabhu
I have read SB 3.29.15.purport by Srila Prabhupada as you suggested. And of course no devotee can disagree, this is a fact. The ahimsa diaries will of course be without material profit as all proceeds of goods sold will go to maintaning the up keep of the herd and the gosala.
As you have been in farming for 40 years then I am sure you are more than aware of such expenditure and up-keep? So do you also agree then that a brahmana in ISKCON may conduct a wedding or some other function, be that right or wrong in itself is another topic, and not gain any material profit? As we know this is going on also.
I find it interesting that nowhere do you address the intended subject matter here of..“ is vegan-ism within ISKCON bonafide or not?” Which poses my question to you that `are you also a vegan?`
At the same time there may be some justification to think vegan but only if it is coupled with a full out effort for a solution which it generally is not.
Also please can you reference anywhere in Srila Prabhupada`s books where he talks about veganism? So rather than critizise active devotees engaged in go-raksya why don`t you try to help us find a working solution to this vegan fad in ISKSON.With all due respect do you not understand that the fundamental issue here is that there is a need in the devotee community for cruelty free milk/products?
Also there is not a single inference where Srila Prabhupada is encouraging us to take this approach of veganism to solving the cruelty of cows etc. At the same time there may be some justification to think vegan but only if it is coupled with a full out effort for a solution which it generally is not. Certainly devotees are not into Vegan at all if it is just to avoid animal products per say, as milk is meant for human consumption according to Srila Prabhupada and the Vedic literature. and to speculate otherwise is against the will of the Lord.
Devamrita Swami in New Zealand encourages his devotees to avoid milk products unless they are produced from protected cows – which his disciples do on the farm there. Good for the devotees but a small drop in the big ocean. Again with all due respect the issue here is that there is a need in the devotee community for cruelty free milk/products. More energy and laxmi needs to be put into this aspect of our preaching without doubt but as we all know building big temples and projects seems to be taking preference in ISKCON at present…to be continued
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 8, 2013 @ 5:36 pm
Dear Mother Ananda Devi Dasi prabhu. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
May I please start off by saying that at Bhaktivedanta manor we are easily 70% self sufficient and operate the Temple model of ISKCON, the community and agricultural model too. Because we are practicing devotional service then this actually transcends the three gunas so our service to the Lord and go-mata is actually transcendental. Also for the Manor Srila Prabhupada wanted a bus to collect western people from London to come to the temple, and see the cows and how we take care of them so we could then teach them about varnasrama and cow protection.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as minimum-violence for milk outside of ISKCON temples unless you live in India and even that now is becoming harder and harder unless you have your own cow. So I disagree with you not to promote ahimsa milk as more and more devotees in ISKCON want cruelty free milk which most rural temples cannot supply to them on a larger scale. ISKCON is a massive society now and has far more devotees then in Srila Prabhupada`s time and the demand for cruelty free milk is there and quite rightly so as of the horrors that go on within the dairy industry, which I don’t know if you are or aware of or not?
The whole point of this topic is to try and start to set in place the dynamics to produce milk for devotees in the way that Srila Prabhupada mandates.
If I am being totally honest with you prabhu I find your closing remarks about the mode of goodness lifestyle and the real conclusive practice of cow protection condescending as we are the biggest cow protection goshalla in Europe as well as the goshalla in Hungary. If you haven’t grown up in India with a family cow then can I please also ask you prabhu if you have actually ever done any go-seva?
Yours in the service of go-mata,
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 7, 2013 @ 1:06 am
Dear Natarja dasa prabhu. PAMHO. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
It’s very interesting that none of the vegans to whom you mentioned above or anymore of them for that matter have actually posted any reply at all on this topic. Also it’s a wonder to me whether or not these devotees were vegan before they joined ISKCON? Which IS NOT and never has been a society of vegans or endorsed vegan principles. As we all know Srila Prabhupada never endorsed even a macrobiotic diet unless of course it was for health reasons and this is also true for those devotees who were/are lactose-intolerant. I also agree that ahimsa mrdanga production should also be observed and promoted within ISKCON otherwise we are compromising our beliefs on go-raksya.
What is needed is for more like minded devotees to come together and promote go-raksya and help to implement the changes that we want to see as regards ahimsa and cruelty free milk. Saying that, I know of some initiated vegan devotees in ISKCON who won’t even drink ahimsa milk. In my opinion such devotees can be without a doubt labeled as fanatical. We as vaisnavas have to please Krsna who loves milk and especially that creamy makhan butter and give him what He wants and not abide by our own false ego whimsey.
In India of course it is easier to keep a cow and have fresh milk to offer to Lord Krsna. The trouble is that here in western countries unfortunately people have no concept of what a real civilized society involves in terms of the vedic injunction of varnasrama. You have to realize that the word culture to 80% if not more of the western population, is football, MC-Donald’s burgers, alcohol and boy chasing girl and visa-verse. Ahimsa dairies and goshallas where people can have contact with gentle go-mata can only be a good thing on many different levels.
At least let us push forward ahimsa dairy production in ISKCON as we are a high thinking and simple living society we are the ones who should be pioneering such activities primarily for our beloved go-mata and of course for those vegan and non-vegan devotee’s who want to buy cruelty free milk as there is such a big demand for it within the devotee community. Lets face it that most farming community temples who keep cows have no surplus milk to sell to devotees so ahimsa makes complete ethical and common sense.
Ys bhakta matty
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 7, 2013 @ 1:02 am
Hare Krsna Dear Priyavrata prabhu. PAMHO. All Glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you for your reply and may i say that you have added a lot of positive points to this discussion.
I absolutely agree with everything you say above except for maybe one point. My point is that to act with integrity then ultimately ISKCON devotees should stop being vegans unless it is for health reasons. All the reasons for this are in my above posts.
Your servant bhakta matty.
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 7, 2013 @ 1:00 am
Continued….If you love go-mata so much then please hold this point about are dear farther the oxen in your mind and heart the next time you put that chapati, filled with dal, rice and subji into your mouth. And then ask yourselves. “Can I do more practical hands-on service for go-raksya?”
Because, it is obvious that you feel so strongly about cow protection by you action of becoming a vegan in first place.
Srila Prabhupada said: So I shall speak in the evening. [break] Krsna has give so many nice preparations. From milk… Therefore cow protection is very essential. [break] Go-raksya vanijyam [Bg. 18.44]. Go-raksya. Because from cow’s milk we can get all vitamins, protein. That… These people, they are eating the flesh of cow, these Western people. But they do not know how to utilize milk. Now they are learning. We have opened many farms. So when they eat so many varieties of preparations from milk, especially from curd, casein, channa, they are surprised.
Room Conversation. January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara.
Myself and two other dedicated goshala devotees had a discussion on Sunday of the last week of 2012 and after much soul searching we worked out that there are more than enough ways that we can engage our ISKCON oxen in meaningful work and at the same time generate enough of an income to maintain a grihasta family. Once we have tried and tested our ideas we will then present our working strategies to ISKCON GBC.
Please note that these are MY views and in no way rep-present Bhaktivedanta manor or Bhaktivedanta manor goshala.To those devotees who I offended. May I please ask for your forgiveness and mercy
Yours in the service of Guru, Gauranga and Go-mata, bhakta matty
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 3, 2013 @ 2:54 am
Continued…..Actually make some time to be more pro-active and do more go-seva and go-raksya because becoming a vegan is merely not enough to stop cow slaughter as the cow should be protected by pro-active devotees.
Srila Prabhupada deemed that the best approach was powerful preaching of Krishna consciousness through literature and other media as well as demonstrating cow protection in rural farm communities. He said:
Just like we say “Don’t eat meat.” So actually, if all people become Krsna conscious and give up meat-eating, then the slaughterhouse will be closed. Automatically. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, June 20, 1972)
Less intelligent people underestimate the value of cow’s milk. Cow’s milk is also called gorasa, or the juice from the body of the cow. Milk is the most valuable form of gorasa, and from milk we can prepare many important and valuable foodstuffs for the upkeep of the human body. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Hawaii, January 15, 1974)
OK so we all know that vegans are basically vegetarians that don`t partake of any dairy products.
So what about our father? The oxen who works hard all day in the fields ploughing and doing so much heavy and hard farm work so that we may have nice sufficient grains and vegetables to eat.
So here is the message to all vegans within Srila Prabhupada`s ISKCON.
While you are eating your rice, vegetables. bread. chapatis etc on your vegan diet,
Srila Prabhupda also stated. “That the tractor was the killer of the bull/oxen.” So since all our modern day agriculture relies so heavy on use of the tractor to produce vegetables and grans then I can only assume that you will negate these eatables from your diet too? As you are indirectly killing the oxen.
If you love go-mata so much then please hold this point about are dear farther the oxen in your mind and heart the next time you put that chapati, filled with dal, rice and subji into your mouth. And then ask yourselves. “Can I do more practical hands-on service for go-raksya?”
Because, it is obvious that you feel so strongly about cow protection by you action of becoming a vegan in first place.
Myself and two other dedicated goshala devotees had a discussion on Sunday of last week 2012 and after much soul searching we worked out that there are more than enough ways that we can engage our ISKCON oxen in meaningful work and at the same time generate enough of an income to maintain a grihasta family…to be continued…
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 3, 2013 @ 2:47 am
….Continued……Correction of date from above letter should read” Srila Prabhupada Letter to Yasomatinandana dasa, 28th November, 1976….Not 1977 as incorrectly stated. My apologies.
It is most significant that to counteract cow slaughter Srila Prabhupada never refrained from using commercial dairy products for offering to the Lord, for his personal consumption nor for the eating of his movements’ followers. He decided to “make the best use of a bad bargain” by using commercial dairy products on the basis. Viñäd apy amåtaà grähyam amedhyäd api käïcanam (take the nectar from the pot of poison or take gold from a filthy place). He appealed to the intelligence of his audience but in order for them to understand his subtle spiritual message, they would require fine brain tissues—rejecting commercial dairy products was not possible. Srila Prabhupada wanted to create intelligent persons who could understand the philosophy of Krishna consciousness and convince others by logic and reason. In the vegetarian diet, milk plays an essential role by providing vitamin B12 (cobalamin). Most animals have micro-organisms in their stomachs that produce B12, but human beings do not. Their only natural sources of B12 are meat and milk. The body needs vitamin B12 to properly develop red blood cells. A deficiency can cause pernicious and megaloblastic anemia. For anyone trying to understand the subtleties of spiritual science, possibly the most important role of vitamin B12 is that it helps maintain proper functioning of the nervous system, including brain cells. Ninety percent of the B12 remains after pasteurization, and seventy percent remains after boiling from two to five minutes.
If you are a vegan then rather than just stopping purchasing dairy products then for those of you who are not doing go-seva then why don’t you actually do some pro-active go-seva or donate some Laxmi to ISKCON cow protection centres near you. Maybe make this one of your new year resolutions?
I know that some vegan devotees in the UK yatra, but not that many are already doing this. If you really want to help in go-raksya and are a vegan then please consider doing more for go-mata than just ceasing the purchase of dairy products.
Actually make some time to be more pro-active and do more go-seva and go-raksya because becoming a vegan is merely not enough to stop cow slaughter as the cow should be protected by pro-active devotees….to be continued…
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 3, 2013 @ 2:37 am
On my recent postings on a well known networking site I have been accused of putting people off from becoming devotees because I speak boldly on this current vegan `fad` in our ISKCON society. Also that I have been “spitting venom” when in reality it was me who was actually getting the venom spat at me.Topics of such a sensitive nature may become and it seems certainly always heated, but believe me I was not spitting venom. If I was you then the accusers of such nonsense would of certainly of known about it.For all those devotees who know me will tell you that I may flail my hoods like a python when necessary but that I would never actually strike.
Also that the topic of discussing this vegan `fad `within Srila Prabhpada`s ISKCON was actually inauspicious!?!?!
Whilst becoming a vegan seems to be the current `fad` in ISKON at the moment.I am hopeful that future solutions to this anti-varnasrama vegan mentality can be curbed.
To all those vegan devotees who may of felt offended then I offer my sincere apologies and humbly beg for your forgiveness.
Our founder Acarya for ISKCON. His Divine Grace A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada has told us…“You say we must have a gosala trust, that is our real purpose: krsi-go-raksya vanijyam, vaisya-karma svabhava-jam (Bhagavad-gita 18.44). Where there is agriculture there must be cows. That is our mission: Cow protection and agriculture and if there is excess, trade. This is a no-profit scheme. For the agriculture we want to produce our own food and we want to keep cows for our own milk. The whole idea is that we are ISKCON, a community to be independent from outside help. This farm project is especially for the devotees to grow their own food. Cotton also, to make their own clothes. And keeping cows for milk and fatty products.Our mission is to protect our devotees from unnecessary heavy work to save time for advancing in Krsna consciousness. This is our mission. So there is no question of profit, but if easily there are surplus products, then we can think of trading. Otherwise we have no such intention. We want a temple, a gosala and agriculture. A community project as in Europe and America. We are making similar attempts in India in several places. Immediately I’m going to Hyderabad to organize the farm project there. We have six hundred acres. We have the permission from the government. There is no question of selling.” Srila Prabhupada Letter to Yasomatinandana dasa, 28th November, 1977….To be continued……
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Jan 2, 2013 @ 9:19 am
Continued…. Our ideas WILL generate money so I am sure that ISKCON will invest money if they are going to see a return and that more importantly it pushes forward varnasrama and go-raksya. My idea for the bhakta programe is to incorporate, where available, at rural temples that the bhaktas who will hopefully go on to become brahmacaries or grihastas etc. is that they do more active seva with the cows and oxen so then hey have knowledge of this aspect of varnasrama too.
Prabhupada also said. I can suggest as you have asked me to give a thought to this problem, that Goseva, according to our Vedic injunction, is specially entrusted to the mercantile community. Of course, during the Hindu government in India, the kings were mostly Vaisnavas like Maharaja Pariksit, and he at once caught the Black man Kali who was attempting to kill a cow. But those days are no more. Neither there is a king like Maharaja Pariksit, nor the present government of India is inclined to give protection to the cows. But the mercantile community, specially the Gujaratis and the Marwaris are undoubtedly rich in India, and I do not know why such mercantile communities do not open large-scale dairy farms. That will certainly give actual protection to the cows. From Bhagavad-gita we understand that the Vaisya community is specially responsible for giving protection to the cows as much as the ksatriya kings are responsible for giving protection to the citizens of the state. As such, if you can organize—and I believe you can do so, because by Grace of Krishna, you are in good position amongst the mercantile community—big dairy farms with large pasturing grounds, then the problem of milk supply and cow protection will automatically be done. I do not know how much you will appreciate my this suggestion, but if you can do such organization, it will be a great service to the country and to the animals, and to this cause of Krishna Consciousness. If you be serious on this point then I can help you with all of my possible energies. (From a letter written by Srila Prabhupada to Sumati Morarjee —1969)
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Dec 31, 2012 @ 2:23 pm
Nataraja dasa prabhu.
First of all you state..”If ISKCON will become de facto vegan society – that’s fantastic! “ … and then you go on to say. “Of course – vegan ideology – there are no need for that.”
This is a contradiction in terms. You also point out to us is that…”Prabhupada said very clearly – our identification is varnasrama.” So again, you stated that…
…”If ISKCON will become de facto vegan society – that’s fantastic!” Well this also is a contradiction to varnasramna.
Srila Prabhupada also states.”The vaiśyas, the members of the mercantile communities, are especially advised to protect the cows. Cow protection means increasing the milk productions, namely curd and butter. Agriculture and distribution of the foodstuff are the primary duties of the mercantile community backed by education in Vedic knowledge and trained to give in charity. As the kṣatriyas were given charge of the protection of the citizens, vaiśyas were given the charge of the protection of animals.” Extract from Bhaktivedanta purport. SB.1.9.26
If you live on a farm then how many acres do you have and what is your position on the farm? You also state that.” Its easy to be a vegan, and its very uneasy to take care about cows, wife and kids in LIFELONG MISSION.”
Prabhupada also states. Just like in your country it is very chilly in the morning to take bath, a little difficult task. But does it mean that those who are devotees, they will stop taking bath? No. Even it is chilly, cold, one must take bath. The duty must be done. The duty must be done. Even it is little suffering. That is called tapasya. Tapasya means we must prolong or proceed with, with our Krsna consciousness business in spite of all dangerous and calamitous condition of this world. This is called tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting the difficulties of life. (From a lecture by Srila Prabhupada given in Los Angeles, April 17, 1973)
But in fairness to you I understand your position of maintaining your family if you have one and how difficult it is. Me and two other devotees had a discussion yesterday and after much soul searching there are more than enough ways that we can engage our ISKCON oxen in meaningful work and at the same time generate enough of an income to maintain a grihasta family. Once we have tried and tested our ideas we will then present our working strategy to the GBC…(to be continued)
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Dec 31, 2012 @ 2:21 pm
As manageress of the goshala craft shop at Bhaktivedanta Manor our ethos at the shop is to help talented devotees wilst also proceeds go to our herd. I would like to add that KC has never been a vegan faith nor will it ever be. If devotees want to deviate from that path that is entirely their own choice, at the end of the day Krishna sees all, He knows what is in our hearts, and if we think differently we are only kidding ourselves…… so be pro active…..come to the manor and support the herd…..we never turn help away……but in my experience people like to take glory but not put in the hard work.
Our team at the manor that work very hard on the farm and goshala are all humble sweet souls that are ploughing with the oxen in rain, snow, hot sun etc…..Its hard work and bhakta matty is making a point that is valid. He is a very gentle soul that loves Krishna’s cows. In-fact our own cow Mukti is due to give birth in just a few months….we could all do more, everyone of us to help with cow protection in ISKCON. He isn’t attacking anyone he is simply being honest, when did that become a crime? We are all spirit souls trying to get back to where we belong…..and by following Srila Prabhupada’s instruction isn’t that what we are doing? Or are some of us saying that we know better than our founder guru? Hari bol,
your servant bhaktin Lainey (bhakta Matty`s wife.)
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Dec 29, 2012 @ 6:32 pm
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Dear Gopaladeva dasa. PAMHO. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
So there is no room at the Manor for the cows that will be retiring from the Ahimsa herd. Sitarama das is running the Ahimsa dairy which is his project and actually has nothing to do as such with Bhaktivedanta manor or the goshala at Bhaktivedanta manor.
So with this in mind it was his suggestion/idea that maybe to look for another place to retire them when there milk is dried up. No body wants to sell any land around the Bhaktivedanta manor area so what to do?
This is why we need more land elsewhere where the retired cows can be looked after nicely by trained up devotees. The devotees can even live on the land and then their could be a rota system in place so devotees can still do Sankirtan and associate with other devotees. Basically we need more than one goshala in UK and trained up devotees to manage the goshala`s.
Hari bol, yours in the service of Guru and Gauranga,
» Posted By Bhakta Matty On Dec 28, 2012 @ 7:55 pm
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