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Comments Posted By Gauragopala dasa

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Theodicy on Fallen

Srila Prabhupada explains we have marginal independence as part of our nature as marginal living entities. We can misuse such independence even in Goloka or Vaikuntha with out any material cause, it simply happens because it is there in our own fundamental spiritual nature as independent (marginal) living beings.

This means a small minority, less than 10% of jiva-tattvas in Vaikuntha or Goloka choose to leave and become nitya baddha in the material world. For this purpose Krishna, via His Maha-Vishnu expansion, creates the mahat-tattva (material creation) for them.

The marginal living entities full potential of loving selfless devotion to Krishna and His loving devotees is based on individuality, independence and the right to choose; we never loose that right to choose, not even in Vaikuntha. Surrender to Krishna and His pure devotees does not mean to become ‘mindless’ stones in Vaikuntha as Prabhupada explains

No, everything in Vaikuntha is based on reciprocal loving service even if it is a fact that we surrender selflessly and unconditionally. The fact is that’s how Krishna also treats us. Having free will and choice gives us the opportunity to give ourselves in our own unique way as individuals. That choice is always there even in Goloka or Vaikuntha and must be there if genuine love is to exist.

It is not that we first have to be contacted by the modes of material nature to fall down from Goloka or Vaikuntha. It’s all to do with a combination of ‘mistaken’ choices and the sheer smallness of the marginal living entity.

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 08.09.2014 @ 18:23

Devotee: God could have created me in such a way that I would never have fallen down.

Prabhupada: He has created, He has given you independence…

Devotee: Why has He given us that independence if we…?

Prabhupada: Then you are not living being. You are dull stone. God does not want that you remain a stone.

Devotee: “Free will” means living being.” (February 5, 1976, Mayapur)

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

Srila Prabhupada - “Tendency means the independence. So everyone can know that independence means one can use it properly, one can misuse it. That is independence. If you make it one way only, that you cannot become fall down, that is not independence. That is force. Therefore Krishna says, yathecchasi tathä kuru. “Now you do whatever you like.” Los Angeles, June 23, 1975

Devotee - “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krsna, we have a perfect relationship with Krsna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we re already serving Krsna?

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down.

Devotee - “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…

Srila Prabhupada - “Because you have got little freedom. — Melbourne, June 25, 1974

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence”.

Srila Prabhupada - “That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 08.09.2014 @ 18:13

‘Vedic Tour of Our Universe’

From Mayesa Prabhu –In Satya Yuga people have very strong bodies that are bigger also, they live for 100,000 years. The Yuga dharma is meditation. By meditation they can get 8 mystic powers

But the weather is unbelievably beautiful and they are less disturbed by bugs and snakes etc they do not grow food, it grows by itself and they just select and eat. They do not need a king or a government

They live in trees. Special giant trees grew with natural hollows. They had no desire to construct buildings. This information is available in the Puranas so yes, they did live above the surface but not only in Vimanas and Sky palaces

dinosaurs

When the mini Pralaya comes water covers earth planet animals from everywhere float in that water, when the waters subside animal bodies lodge here and there and they find some big bones and ” imagine” what was the shape that is their nonsense

And bodies of demons from various places and their animals fall dead all over bhurloka this planet. That is directly Stated in the Puranas. So dinosaurs are left from water of pralays and people are bigger so why not animals bigger as well? Don’t worry if we are going to be embarrassed. All this modern science is soon to be overturned, every word of it, we must strictly preach what is in sastra and nothing else.

Moon hoax will be revealed also, so if we accept it we shall be the Biggest fools on the planet, remember a hoax is made only by a few. The hundreds that build the technology they will never know it is a sham. That is how you have success.

In WW2 the allies used loud speakers to make the enemy think there were thousands of vehicles when there was only one jeep. Similarly the allies constructed rubber planes and tanks so the Nazis would see they had more. Do you think every man in the army knew? This could have remained secret forever

Extra ordinary things are there in Puranas about other planets as well. Exact day of change from each age is given, extraordinary things. If we say what we do not find in Puranas the people will be disappointed and will not take us seriously

If you have Vimana you go to other planets so why only hover above earth? They are given a wonderful opportunity to live in Satya yuga and be able to perform the preferred religion. Demigods could come and preach here in Satya yuga - like Vaivasvata Muni, inhabitants could hear one time and remember for a life time

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 16.07.2014 @ 16:27

We are not seeing the full picture of the material universe with our biological eyes and its extended enhancements of telescopes and space probes that is also made of gross matter like our gross material bodies.

You cannot use gross matter to perceive the subtle or ethereal realms that is why modern scientists cannot see the heavenly or even the hellish worlds on other planets that are made of subtle and gross matter. Technically what we are trying to understand here is what happens after death of the biological material body and to where the subtle material vessel or body, that houses the soul or jiva while in the material creation, goes next.

We are trying to understand the after life and ultimately re-establishing our eternal original relationship with Krishna beyond the gross and subtle bodies and worlds of this temporary material universe

There are 14 planetary systems in the material universe that are all different levels of conscious awareness and dimensions, some are subtle matter and some are in other dimensions of gross matter.

We are limited to only one of those gross material realities that we perceive with our biological body in our dimension in time and space with its extensions of space probes, telescopes etc.

The ’subtle’ material universe and the ‘ethereal material body’ that underlies all biological bodies, as well as parallel universes of gross matter like ours, has not yet been discovered by modern science

Actually the ‘ethereal or subtle body’ can NEVER be discovered by using ‘gross’ matter or its technological extensions, this why no one can prove the existence of ghosts that are actually all around us. In other words, you cannot see the full picture of the material universe with biological matter or its extensions of modern science and technology.

Only by developing higher realms of consciousness within oneself and NOT through mundane telescopes, space probes, electron microscopes, cameras and viewing the atomic realm with the Large Hadron Collider, can one EVER perceive the material universe in its full potential.

A devotee of Krishna on the other hand sees through the eyes of the Sastra or scripture like the Srimad Bhagavatam, Bhagavad Gita as it is, the Caitanya Caritamrita and Surya Siddhanta that sees all of the different dimensions and realms of the material universe that is unseen by modern materialistic science.

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 09.07.2014 @ 20:46

For more information on Vedic Cosmology and the 5th Canto of the Srimad Bhagavatam please visit https://www.facebook.com/groups/DecodingVedicCosmology/

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 07.07.2014 @ 16:28

ONLY FEW FALL — Eternally liberated never fall, with footnote

Letter to Jagadisa Prabhu, 4/25/1970.
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your questions about how and from where did the conditioned souls fall, your first question if someone has a relationship with Lord Krsna on Krsnaloka, does he ever fall down? The souls are endowed with minute independence as part of their nature and THIS MINUTE INDEPENDECE MAY BE UTILIZED RIIGHTLY OR WRONGLY AT ANY TIME, SO THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE OF FALLING DOWN by misuse of one’s independence.

Letter to Jagadisa 7/9/1970
Srila Prabhupada – Regarding your several questions: Where are the spirit souls coming from that are taking microbe bodies? It is not a matter of any particular body. THESE SPIRIT SOULS AND ALL SPIRIT SOULS ARE COMING FROM VAIKUNTHA, but in these material worlds they are taking various grades of bodies according to their material activities. THERE IS NO “ NEW” SOUL. “New’’ and “old’’ are due to this material body, but the soul is never born and never dies, so if there is no birth so how there can be new soul?

Jagadisa Prabhu asked Srila Prabhupada if those in the passive relationship were more likely to fall. The letter from Srila Prabhupada of 02/27/1970 reads:

“Regarding your questions concerning the spirit souls falling into Maya’s influence, it is not that those who have developed a passive relationship with Krsna are more likely to fall into nescient activities. Usually anyone who has developed his relationship with Krsna does not fall down in any circumstance, but because the independence is always there, THE SOUL MAY FALL DOWN FROM ANY POSITION OR ANY RELATIONSHIP BY MISUSING HIS INDEPENDENCE. But HIS RELATIONSHIP WITH KRISHNA IS NEVER LOST, SIMPLY FORGOTTEN BY THE INFLUENCE OF MAYA SO IT MAY BE REGAINED OR REVIVED by the process of hearing the Holy Name of Krsna and then the devotee engages himself in the service of the Lord which is his original or constitutional position. The relationship of the living entity with Krsna is eternal as both Krsna and the living entity are eternal; THE PROCESS IS ONE OF REVIVAL ONLY, NOTHING NEW”.

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 13.07.2014 @ 15:28

Acyutananda: ‘But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.””

Prabhupada: But if he likes, he can return.

Acyutananda: He can return

Prabhupada: That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that.… That misuse is the cause of our falldown. Room Conversation February 19, 1976 Mayapur

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 13.07.2014 @ 15:15

Paramahamsa - “But ultimately if we come to Krsna, there’s no return.

Srila Prabhupada - “There is return, that is voluntary. Return there is”.

Paramahamsa - “If we want”.

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “So we can come to the spiritual world and return?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes”.

Paramahamsa - “Fall down?”

Srila Prabhupada - “Yes. As soon as we try, “Oh, this material world is very nice,” “Yes,” Krsna says, “yes, you go.” Just like nobody is interested in Krsna consciousness.
Lecture by Srila Prabhupada May 13, 1973

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 13.07.2014 @ 15:05

By stating things like we cannot fall from Krsna’s presence, you obliterate (destroy) free will. What is the meaning of free will if it cannot be misused? In this way we CAN fall down from Vaikuntha however, most ‘choose’ not to

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 18.06.2014 @ 18:21

Ones fall down from Vaikuntha or Goloka Vrndavana is due to free will and choice not maya, there is no material cause for ones fall down from Goloka Vrndavana

Srila Prabhupada - ” So, even in the Vaikuntha, if I desire that ‘Why shall I serve Krishna? Why not become Krishna?’ I immediately fall down. That is natural. A servant is serving the master, but sometimes he may think that, “If I could be come the master.” They are thinking like that; they are trying to become God. That is delusion. You cannot become God. That is not possible. But he’s wrongly thinking

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t Krishna protect us from that desire?

Srila Prabhupada - “He’s protecting. He says, “You rascal, don’t desire. Surrender unto Me.” But you are rascal; you do not do this”.

Vipina Purandara - “Why doesn’t He save me from thinking like that? ”

Srila Prabhupada - “That means you lose your independence. That is force, in Bengali it is said, ‘If you catch one girl or boy, ‘You love me, you love me, you love me.’ ” Is it love? “You love me, otherwise I will kill you!’ Is that love? ”So Krishna does not want to become a lover like that, on the point of revolver. ‘You love me, otherwise I shall kill you!’ That is not love; that is threatening. Love is reciprocal, voluntary, good exchange of feeling. Then there is love. Not by force; that is rape. Why one is called lover, another is called rape?” July 8, 1976 in Washington, D.C

Devotee – “When we are in the spiritual sky and serving Krishna, we have a perfect relationship with Krishna, what causes us to fall down in the material world, because we’re already serving Krishna?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you desire to fall down. Here it is explained that “Don’t fall down.” And as soon as you associate with the material nature, then you fall down”.

Devotee – “Srila Prabhupada, I can’t understand why we should have an impure desire when we are already serving…”

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you have got little freedom” Melbourne, Australia June 25, 1974

Srila Prabhupada - “Those who are in the Brahman effulgence they are also in the fallen condition, so there is no question of falling down from a fallen condition. When fall takes place, it means falling down from the non-fallen condition. The non-fallen condition is Krsna consciousness. So long one can maintain pure Krsna consciousness he is not fallen down” Los Angeles 13 June, 1970

Comment Posted By Gauragopala dasa On 18.06.2014 @ 14:36


 


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