Comments Posted By Nataraja dasa
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Thanks to Dandavats and to Gadi prabhu for this article! I can say honestly - it is exactly how i feel it.
Yes of course - its sentimental, yes of course - its discutable, yes of course - its objectable, yes of course…
And “society free from envy” sounds allmost like an UTOPIA. Especially - for example - because any organization, society per definition are in need of a professional politics (leaders, managers, organizers)…
But it is so true, until there will not be cardinal revolution in basic understanding - those who are FOR Krishna consciousness will never find a place between those, who think that they are allready IN society OF Krishna consciousness…
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 05.05.2013 @ 00:19
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!
There was Russian scientist Lomonosov (1711-1765) who argued - when german so called scientists had agenda to undermine russian culture with arguments - that best elements of russian culture and russian names came from “advanced” western culture and german language. Lomonosov answered - So, that means that russian BARAN (ram) came from german BARON…
About 2 decades ago, I have personal discussions with HG Gopiparanadhana prabhu - about tendency to show and prove different linguistic connections between vedic and local cultures in historical aspect. And HG Gopiparanadhana prabhu said strictly - “… even do not try to prove something what is not scientifically approvable”. So - May be there are connections, but may be not. Let it be. But if you will start to prove - and this will be false - you will lose any credibility.
Therefore - dear Premanjana prabhu, and dear Editors of Dandavats - do not lose credibility. If you will put just one word - similarities, or theory, or idea of origin - in the name of article, instead of just - ORIGIN - then it will be discutable, But now - it is like it is - EMBARASSMENT.
The real connections of words should be analised in complexes of cultural elements. For example - latvian dainas:
sayAyuSi bramanISi zila kalna galiNA
sakAruSi zobentiNus svEta koka zariNA
There are 3 cultural elements:
bramanISi and zobentiNi - brahmanas with swords
zilais kalns - blue mountain
svEts koks - holy tree
This daina is preChristian time (before - 10 century). Brahmanas with swords - its fenomenon in connection with paraSurAMa lineage (one can not find such element somewhere else in history of culture out of the story of paraSurAma - brahmanas with swords), and elements of worship - holy mountains and holy trees - they also are vedic by epitets (but not only vedic - other nonvedic cultures had such elements).
Therefore one can make claim - that this word - bramanISi is the same as brahmanas from sanskrit. This is just one example. But this is not PROOF.
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 03.03.2013 @ 20:08
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All Glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.
When someone study literature carefully, one should not ignore motives and methods behind.
For example, page 69.
There is Srilas Prabhupadas statements:
“The father and mother are also as good as the Spiritual Master.
‚Äď Letter to Gopal Krsna, 21 June, 1969″
Will this argument be valid for a fundation of new institution? I mean for Father and Mother diksha guru institution in ISKCON? I mean - when you become a father/mother, is this some kind a presumption by your acceptance in society as diksha guru? No…
Please understand me correctly. The whole summum bonum of this book is methodically motivated, and if one will follow the methods of this book - sequences are serious.
Fore example, again page 69.
Srilas Prabhupadas statement:
“There is no difference between putra and chatra. Putra means son, and chatra means disciple.‚Äď Lecture on Sri Isopanisad, Los Angeles, 8 July 1971″
If this thesis can be used as a valid argument for establishing of “no ordinary women” diksha institution, why do not use this thesis as a valid argument for - that chatra, sisya do not need any qualification - as a newborn child? Just be!
And relationship between Mother and Son are not the same as between Guru and Sisya. Its common sense. Can you imagine, that Women Diksha Guru will feed theyr chatras with milk from theyr breasts? And putra - to be putra is not qualification of being genuine disciple.
One can say, that - basic common sense is lost in this book, and Srilas Prabhupadas statements are used very seemingly - according motives.
And if you opposit the book, may be you will be considered, that you opposit Srila Prabhupada. And for me, as for the simple follower, this will be the most painfull…
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 26.02.2013 @ 09:09
Gauracandra prabhu posted:
“For that the devotee may even sometime commit apparent illegal acts in social norm,…”
SOMETIME. If you have been in showbusiness industry - there are no “sometime”. Mostly, everything is planned and rules and regulations are strict. Its a system. And whats the worst - you are forced to accept way of life and you are obligated to think/act accordingly.
For the public - “THE NEW STAR WAS BORN”, but in reality - producers and managers just playing out next card in the order… Real stars and talented peoples are just moved aside, to give a way for the favorite.
So - this way of mixing together therms: - “…devotees commiting any so called sin for krishna is also acceptable, as they offer all results to the Lord…”, “…Pure devotees engaged in preaching and Vaishnava seva are never professional…”, “…devotee may even sometime commit apparent illegal acts in social norm…” - this way will just blurr any borderline, and at the end we will get Hollywood slogan “FOLLOW THE HEART” (”…devotees should be self-introspective…”).
We should not be so much self-introspective, because we allready are like that - and with this “following our hearts” we are in deep nescience and dark material existence.
There should be clear and clean borderlines. Off course - this is the best business - to sing mahamantre and get paid for that. But call this a business - and not a devotional service. Then - no one will have a problem. Better to make devotional service, but call your activities just simply “your business”, instead of opposit - when you do your business, and call your activities as a “devotional service”. This is one of the greatest problems in any spiritual organisation - mixing together “devotional service” and “personal business”.
One can say so: If you get paid - thats your business, and please call this so.
If you didnt gain anything and give away everything from your activities - thats devotional service.
Otherwise - we can soon find ourselves in showbusiness illusionary world…
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 07.01.2013 @ 21:42
Thats interesting comparision. Would chanting Hare Krishna mahamantra by different musicians for earning money, selling CDs, preforming in festivals (for money or for selling CDs) will be also considered “for not hearing”? Especially, if its done proffessionaly (i mean professionaly by standarts of music industry complexies)?
Actually there are some tensions - especially, if you are payd to go to take a part in some another festival - but you cannot preach or say the truth, or you speak only what they want to hear - because you do not want to loose audithory and income (from the next invitation…)
The same aspect is - when a preacher goes to wealthy or powerfull groups/persons - and he speaks halftruths or nothing (for gaining donations, followers and so on). He acts like a proffessional preacher - but where is the border?
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 06.01.2013 @ 10:49
Priyavrata prabhu posted:
“…I think the solution is to form a cooperative of ahimsa milk buyers and approach the organic dairies with a proposal to adopt cows so they they are never sent to slaughter. Remember, this is all about business. We have to think in terms of what makes sense for business.”
“…For me at least, for ISKCON to continue purchasing poor quality commercial dairy is a huge compromise of their principles.”
Actually I was thinking the same, some time ago. But my thoughts was, that it will work in the beginning if such organisation will be not local, little bit more regional. Because amount of milk, from succesfull small milk farm is quite a big. Off course one should find a farm, who produce not only milk, but milk products also. Yes.
Yes, thats the point - i know good vegans, who fight for this principle - and because of complete unanderstanding of theyr position and complexity of this question - they have a not pleasant days in ISKCON.
For example: its the same, with mrdangas. A Call for boycotting clay mrdangas - it can be ridiculated like a some false ideology, but reality under this call is mass animal/cow slaughtering for skin, for mrdangas. Off course - there are Ahimsa mrdanga production or plastic mrdanga production - but to change habits its not so easy, and therefore indian clay mrdanga business is going on, and animal slaughtering for that also…
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 06.01.2013 @ 08:56
Dear Bhakta Matty.
There are no contradictions. We are vegetarians not because we are vegetarians by some ideology of vegetarians, but because we are devotees.
patram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahritam asnami prayatatmanah
If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.
So - one actually can not say, that vegans has no place in here.
Especailly, if we speak about varnasrama. Your cited verse starts with: ‚ÄĚThe vaiŇõyas, the members of the mercantile communities, are especially advised to protect the cows….”
There are many devotees who are not vaisyas, who will never be vaisyas, and who will never have around vaisyas and cow farm and so on. Is there a big problem to be vegan or to have around steady vegan devotees for some time? Not really.
In our a farm they are 200 hectars. And I have no position in farm. I have a building companies, and its takes all my time and much more. Now - i have 2-3 weeks nothing to do - and therefore I am really happy to be part in discussions. But when market will start to move - so, there will not be any time left.
Yes - we buy our farm milk, and I am very happy about it - but for making more milkproducts, there should be more cows and more milk. But if everything will go, like its going now - it will come, gradually and naturally.
And I really think, that without rural farms there will not be future for ISKCON. But to make rural farms on conditions which prevail nowadays - its not realistic. You know - should be strong families in generations. Yes - there is place for lot of discussions.
Good luck to You dear prabhu, and happy New year - And may Srilas Prabhupadas and Srilas Bhaktisiddhantas blessings are upon you!
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 01.01.2013 @ 19:48
Please forgive me bhaktin Lainey.
I just made a point - as you have maded honest attepts, the many vegan devotees also make honest attempts - and all the honest attempts should be supported. If you will see, that the vegan movement in reality minimize cow sloughtering - i believe you will support this with all your heart, even if theyr ideology didnot.
Muslim, jew, christian and buddhist vegans - they deserves supporting. And when someone from jew or christian vegan groups will join our movement - they have all rights to continue to be vegans and to not be critisized, by theyr way of life as a bhogus or so on - because its a honest attempts.
Kosher and halal sloughtering and food - thats a horrible, really horrible. And mostly its only about cows…
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 30.12.2012 @ 13:23
If ISKCON will become de facto vegan society - thats fantastic!
Untill we have no established varnasrama dharma - we will never establish a cow protection as it is.
Therefore practicaly, vegan alternative as a honest attempt of a devotees who lives in cities, should be supported and not rejected.
Of course - vegan ideology - there are no need for that.
Prabhupada said very clearly - our identification is varnasrama.
I live on the farm - and i can see how much work in reality is needed for cow protection - for service to the cows. And how much work is needed for farming a land.
Therefore dear prabhu - I did not agree with your position against vegan influence in our society.
I feel very strongly that no one should ask ISKCON to put any money anywhere.
Those devotees and congregation members who feel - they just should go out and work, build a families, buy a land where there are rural temples or land near temples and go on with varnsasrama by theyr own example.
Yes of course, theyr “Spiritual Standart” at the beginning will not be so high, some periods of year they will not be able to chant japa - but theyr cows will be happy, and ahimsa milk will go on, and theyr exemplary service to the society and theyr own example will be fabulous, glorious and inspiring for the future generations and all others around.
Its easy to be a vegan, and its very uneasy to take care about cows, wife and kids in LIFELONG MISSION.
Because its not for brahmacaries. Brahmacaries should study vedas, preach and help society with theyr exemplary following rules and regulations and keeping mission high.
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 29.12.2012 @ 17:46
Thank you very much for your precisious comment:
“It appears through your comments that you are still seeing the jiva as the doer of activities.”
Yes of course - and not really.
But if we let down “Higher Truth” and if we look on the plate:
- we can discuss just one problem from many problems which will follow us, if we neglect varnasrama.
MEMBERS OF OUR MOVEMENT IN OLDAGE.
1. Its not ok, if a devotee, who has served for 25-30 years in the temples, should start to work at the age of 55-60, to pay a rent and cover all other expences.
2. Its not ok, if a devotee who was a brahmacarie (-ini) for 25-30 years in different temples/BBT, should marry at the age of 55-60, because no one can take care about him/her in the oldage and when he/she is sick.
3. Its not ok, if a sankirtana devotee, who was ill, should be left alone in the house for olders.
4. Its not ok …
Actually - there was a beautifull speach by Bhakti Tirtha Swami maharaja, before He left this planet - when He was laying with cancer, and so many devotees helped him - He was thinking about those devotees who are not Gurus and who didnt get any help…
So many problems and questions arises from that simple ignoring of varnasrama simple truths. Because reality around us calls - deva dvija guru prajna pujanam.
So - this is varnasrama. And if we came back to the topic - womens should never be left alone without father, husband or sons. This is a care about womens, this is protection of womens. And new division of women diksa gurus will never be able to replace protection, prescribed by The Lord.
Comment Posted By Nataraja dasa On 01.01.2013 @ 20:31