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Comments Posted By Nataraja dasa

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International Society for Krsna Consciousness…

Hare Krishna!
Thanks to Dandavats and to Gadi prabhu for this article! I can say honestly – it is exactly how i feel it.
Yes of course – its sentimental, yes of course – its discutable, yes of course – its objectable, yes of course…
And “society free from envy” sounds allmost like an UTOPIA. Especially – for example – because any organization, society per definition are in need of a professional politics (leaders, managers, organizers)…
But it is so true, until there will not be cardinal revolution in basic understanding – those who are FOR Krishna consciousness will never find a place between those, who think that they are allready IN society OF Krishna consciousness…

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On May 5, 2013 @ 12:19 am

Original Sanskrit Names Of Places

Hare Krishna!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga!

There was Russian scientist Lomonosov (1711-1765) who argued – when german so called scientists had agenda to undermine russian culture with arguments – that best elements of russian culture and russian names came from “advanced” western culture and german language. Lomonosov answered – So, that means that russian BARAN (ram) came from german BARON…

About 2 decades ago, I have personal discussions with HG Gopiparanadhana prabhu – about tendency to show and prove different linguistic connections between vedic and local cultures in historical aspect. And HG Gopiparanadhana prabhu said strictly – “… even do not try to prove something what is not scientifically approvable”. So – May be there are connections, but may be not. Let it be. But if you will start to prove – and this will be false – you will lose any credibility.

Therefore – dear Premanjana prabhu, and dear Editors of Dandavats – do not lose credibility. If you will put just one word – similarities, or theory, or idea of origin – in the name of article, instead of just – ORIGIN – then it will be discutable, But now – it is like it is – EMBARASSMENT.

The real connections of words should be analised in complexes of cultural elements. For example – latvian dainas:

sayAyuSi bramanISi zila kalna galiNA
sakAruSi zobentiNus svEta koka zariNA

There are 3 cultural elements:
bramanISi and zobentiNi – brahmanas with swords
zilais kalns – blue mountain
svEts koks – holy tree

This daina is preChristian time (before – 10 century). Brahmanas with swords – its fenomenon in connection with paraSurAMa lineage (one can not find such element somewhere else in history of culture out of the story of paraSurAma – brahmanas with swords), and elements of worship – holy mountains and holy trees – they also are vedic by epitets (but not only vedic – other nonvedic cultures had such elements).

Therefore one can make claim – that this word – bramanISi is the same as brahmanas from sanskrit. This is just one example. But this is not PROOF.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Mar 3, 2013 @ 8:08 pm

Download for free the book “Did Srila Prabhupada Want Women Diksa-gurus?”

Hare Krishna!
All Glories to Srila Prabhupada! All Glories to Sri Guru and Gauranga.

When someone study literature carefully, one should not ignore motives and methods behind.

For example, page 69.
There is Srilas Prabhupadas statements:

“The father and mother are also as good as the Spiritual Master.
– Letter to Gopal Krsna, 21 June, 1969″

Will this argument be valid for a fundation of new institution? I mean for Father and Mother diksha guru institution in ISKCON? I mean – when you become a father/mother, is this some kind a presumption by your acceptance in society as diksha guru? No…

Please understand me correctly. The whole summum bonum of this book is methodically motivated, and if one will follow the methods of this book – sequences are serious.

Fore example, again page 69.

Srilas Prabhupadas statement:
“There is no difference between putra and chatra. Putra means son, and chatra means disciple.– Lecture on Sri Isopanisad, Los Angeles, 8 July 1971″

If this thesis can be used as a valid argument for establishing of “no ordinary women” diksha institution, why do not use this thesis as a valid argument for – that chatra, sisya do not need any qualification – as a newborn child? Just be!

And relationship between Mother and Son are not the same as between Guru and Sisya. Its common sense. Can you imagine, that Women Diksha Guru will feed theyr chatras with milk from theyr breasts? And putra – to be putra is not qualification of being genuine disciple.

One can say, that – basic common sense is lost in this book, and Srilas Prabhupadas statements are used very seemingly – according motives.
And if you opposit the book, may be you will be considered, that you opposit Srila Prabhupada. And for me, as for the simple follower, this will be the most painfull…

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Feb 26, 2013 @ 9:09 am

Why not to hear from professional Bhagavatam reciters

Hare Krishna!
Gauracandra prabhu posted:
“For that the devotee may even sometime commit apparent illegal acts in social norm,…”

SOMETIME. If you have been in showbusiness industry – there are no “sometime”. Mostly, everything is planned and rules and regulations are strict. Its a system. And whats the worst – you are forced to accept way of life and you are obligated to think/act accordingly.

For the public – “THE NEW STAR WAS BORN”, but in reality – producers and managers just playing out next card in the order… Real stars and talented peoples are just moved aside, to give a way for the favorite.

So – this way of mixing together therms: – “…devotees commiting any so called sin for krishna is also acceptable, as they offer all results to the Lord…”, “…Pure devotees engaged in preaching and Vaishnava seva are never professional…”, “…devotee may even sometime commit apparent illegal acts in social norm…” – this way will just blurr any borderline, and at the end we will get Hollywood slogan “FOLLOW THE HEART” (“…devotees should be self-introspective…”).

We should not be so much self-introspective, because we allready are like that – and with this “following our hearts” we are in deep nescience and dark material existence.

There should be clear and clean borderlines. Off course – this is the best business – to sing mahamantre and get paid for that. But call this a business – and not a devotional service. Then – no one will have a problem. Better to make devotional service, but call your activities just simply “your business”, instead of opposit – when you do your business, and call your activities as a “devotional service”. This is one of the greatest problems in any spiritual organisation – mixing together “devotional service” and “personal business”.

One can say so: If you get paid – thats your business, and please call this so.
If you didnt gain anything and give away everything from your activities – thats devotional service.

Otherwise – we can soon find ourselves in showbusiness illusionary world…

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Jan 7, 2013 @ 9:42 pm

Hare Krishna.
Thats interesting comparision. Would chanting Hare Krishna mahamantra by different musicians for earning money, selling CDs, preforming in festivals (for money or for selling CDs) will be also considered “for not hearing”? Especially, if its done proffessionaly (i mean professionaly by standarts of music industry complexies)?
Actually there are some tensions – especially, if you are payd to go to take a part in some another festival – but you cannot preach or say the truth, or you speak only what they want to hear – because you do not want to loose audithory and income (from the next invitation…)
The same aspect is – when a preacher goes to wealthy or powerfull groups/persons – and he speaks halftruths or nothing (for gaining donations, followers and so on). He acts like a proffessional preacher – but where is the border?

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Jan 6, 2013 @ 10:49 am

Vegans in ISKCON

Hare Krishna!
Priyavrata prabhu posted:
“…I think the solution is to form a cooperative of ahimsa milk buyers and approach the organic dairies with a proposal to adopt cows so they they are never sent to slaughter. Remember, this is all about business. We have to think in terms of what makes sense for business.”
“…For me at least, for ISKCON to continue purchasing poor quality commercial dairy is a huge compromise of their principles.”

Actually I was thinking the same, some time ago. But my thoughts was, that it will work in the beginning if such organisation will be not local, little bit more regional. Because amount of milk, from succesfull small milk farm is quite a big. Off course one should find a farm, who produce not only milk, but milk products also. Yes.
Yes, thats the point – i know good vegans, who fight for this principle – and because of complete unanderstanding of theyr position and complexity of this question – they have a not pleasant days in ISKCON.
For example: its the same, with mrdangas. A Call for boycotting clay mrdangas – it can be ridiculated like a some false ideology, but reality under this call is mass animal/cow slaughtering for skin, for mrdangas. Off course – there are Ahimsa mrdanga production or plastic mrdanga production – but to change habits its not so easy, and therefore indian clay mrdanga business is going on, and animal slaughtering for that also…

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Jan 6, 2013 @ 8:56 am

Dear Bhakta Matty.
There are no contradictions. We are vegetarians not because we are vegetarians by some ideology of vegetarians, but because we are devotees.

patram pushpam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahritam asnami prayatatmanah
If one offers Me with love and devotion a leaf, a flower, fruit or water, I will accept it.

So – one actually can not say, that vegans has no place in here.
Especailly, if we speak about varnasrama. Your cited verse starts with: ”The vaiśyas, the members of the mercantile communities, are especially advised to protect the cows….”
There are many devotees who are not vaisyas, who will never be vaisyas, and who will never have around vaisyas and cow farm and so on. Is there a big problem to be vegan or to have around steady vegan devotees for some time? Not really.

In our a farm they are 200 hectars. And I have no position in farm. I have a building companies, and its takes all my time and much more. Now – i have 2-3 weeks nothing to do – and therefore I am really happy to be part in discussions. But when market will start to move – so, there will not be any time left.

Yes – we buy our farm milk, and I am very happy about it – but for making more milkproducts, there should be more cows and more milk. But if everything will go, like its going now – it will come, gradually and naturally.

And I really think, that without rural farms there will not be future for ISKCON. But to make rural farms on conditions which prevail nowadays – its not realistic. You know – should be strong families in generations. Yes – there is place for lot of discussions.

Good luck to You dear prabhu, and happy New year – And may Srilas Prabhupadas and Srilas Bhaktisiddhantas blessings are upon you!

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Jan 1, 2013 @ 7:48 pm

Please forgive me bhaktin Lainey.
I just made a point – as you have maded honest attepts, the many vegan devotees also make honest attempts – and all the honest attempts should be supported. If you will see, that the vegan movement in reality minimize cow sloughtering – i believe you will support this with all your heart, even if theyr ideology didnot.
Muslim, jew, christian and buddhist vegans – they deserves supporting. And when someone from jew or christian vegan groups will join our movement – they have all rights to continue to be vegans and to not be critisized, by theyr way of life as a bhogus or so on – because its a honest attempts.
Kosher and halal sloughtering and food – thats a horrible, really horrible. And mostly its only about cows…

Natarja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 30, 2012 @ 1:23 pm

Hare Krishna!

If ISKCON will become de facto vegan society – thats fantastic!

Untill we have no established varnasrama dharma – we will never establish a cow protection as it is.

Therefore practicaly, vegan alternative as a honest attempt of a devotees who lives in cities, should be supported and not rejected.
Of course – vegan ideology – there are no need for that.

Prabhupada said very clearly – our identification is varnasrama.

I live on the farm – and i can see how much work in reality is needed for cow protection – for service to the cows. And how much work is needed for farming a land.

Therefore dear prabhu – I did not agree with your position against vegan influence in our society.

I feel very strongly that no one should ask ISKCON to put any money anywhere.
Those devotees and congregation members who feel – they just should go out and work, build a families, buy a land where there are rural temples or land near temples and go on with varnsasrama by theyr own example.

Yes of course, theyr “Spiritual Standart” at the beginning will not be so high, some periods of year they will not be able to chant japa – but theyr cows will be happy, and ahimsa milk will go on, and theyr exemplary service to the society and theyr own example will be fabulous, glorious and inspiring for the future generations and all others around.

Its easy to be a vegan, and its very uneasy to take care about cows, wife and kids in LIFELONG MISSION.

Because its not for brahmacaries. Brahmacaries should study vedas, preach and help society with theyr exemplary following rules and regulations and keeping mission high.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 29, 2012 @ 5:46 pm

Varnasrama: Protection or Exploitation!

Hare Krishna!
Thank you very much for your precisious comment:
“It appears through your comments that you are still seeing the jiva as the doer of activities.”
Yes of course – and not really.

But if we let down “Higher Truth” and if we look on the plate:
– we can discuss just one problem from many problems which will follow us, if we neglect varnasrama.

1. Its not ok, if a devotee, who has served for 25-30 years in the temples, should start to work at the age of 55-60, to pay a rent and cover all other expences.
2. Its not ok, if a devotee who was a brahmacarie (-ini) for 25-30 years in different temples/BBT, should marry at the age of 55-60, because no one can take care about him/her in the oldage and when he/she is sick.
3. Its not ok, if a sankirtana devotee, who was ill, should be left alone in the house for olders.
4. Its not ok …

Actually – there was a beautifull speach by Bhakti Tirtha Swami maharaja, before He left this planet – when He was laying with cancer, and so many devotees helped him – He was thinking about those devotees who are not Gurus and who didnt get any help…

So many problems and questions arises from that simple ignoring of varnasrama simple truths. Because reality around us calls – deva dvija guru prajna pujanam.

So – this is varnasrama. And if we came back to the topic – womens should never be left alone without father, husband or sons. This is a care about womens, this is protection of womens. And new division of women diksa gurus will never be able to replace protection, prescribed by The Lord.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Jan 1, 2013 @ 8:31 pm

Hare Krishna!

Dear BBD prabhu.
I will left to a side your comment “You have zero experience of what varnashrama…” .
You have no clue who I am and about my life.

Even if someone have zero experience, He has a right to choose and perform prescribed varnasrama duties, even if we all are varnasankaras and mlecchas and yavanas – because we will do this for Krishna, because Srila Prabhupada wanted that.

Considering our specific varnasrama duties, we should know that there is no better engagement for us than performing devotional service based on varnasrama dharma religious principles; and so there is no need for hesitation.

Considering all aspects, we have no reason to refrain from sva-dharma.

Yes, even if someone is completely surrendered unto Krishna, Mukunda, and has a right to give up all other duties (because he is no longer a debtor, nor he is obliged to anyone — not the demigods, nor the sages, nor the people in general, nor kinsmen, nor humanity, nor forefathers) – even then, he has no reason to not follow rules and regulations – as Srila Prabhupada showed.

Because, if we do not perform our religious varnasrama duties, then we will certainly incur sins for neglecting our duties and thus we will lose our reputation as a devotees.

People will always speak of our infamy, and for a respectable persons, dishonor is worse than death.

Lord Sri Krishna directly says that we should perform our duties for the sake of performing our duties, because He desires that!

There are two classes of men. Some of them are full of polluted material things within their hearts, and some of them are materially free. Krishna consciousness is equally beneficial for both of these persons. Those who are full of dirty things can take to the line of Krishna consciousness for a gradual cleansing process, following the regulative principles of devotional service. Those who are already cleansed of the impurities may continue to act in the same Krishna consciousness so that others may follow their exemplary activities and thereby be benefited. Foolish persons or neophytes in Krishna consciousness often want to retire from activities without having knowledge of Krishna consciousness.

Our desire to ignore varnasrama dharma activities are not approved by the Lord. One need only know how to act. To reject our sva dharma duties and to sit aloof making a show of Krishna consciousness is less important than actually engaging in the field of activities for the sake of Krishna.


» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 30, 2012 @ 12:59 pm

Hare Krishna!
BBD posted
Varnashrama dharma doesn’t exist today…can we say that there is no bhakti in today’s world because of the absence of varnashrama dharma? No.

Lets be straight.
What dos it mean – bhakti?
Did bhakti means falling gurus, jumping disciples, free mixing between boys and girls, unwanted kids, divorces and marriages by agreement? Did bhakti means to be elephants and elephantinis?
Did bhakti means kids who do not want anymore anything with Krishna Consciousness and broken hearts of rejected relatives…
Did bhakti means lone elders without any help, late marriages in the time, when one should accept vanaprastha, brahmacaries businessmans and grihasthas beggars?

Are we apasampradayis?

One can say : IF YOU HAVE A BHAKTI – YOU WILL HAVE NO PROBLEM IN FOLLOWING VARNASRAMA DHARMA. And one can say opposite – If you will have no problem in following varnasrama dharma by prolonged period of time, you will have no problem in following 4 regulative principles, and you will have no problem with your Bhakti.

Looks like a varnasrama dharma is like a poison for most of the peoples. But reread please Bhagavad Gita – varnasrama is like a happiness in sattva guna. Yes – its like a poison in the beginning, but in th end its a sweet like a nectar.

May be the problem of modern days mentality is that we want everything NOW, immediately and if we have no resources – lets go to the bank. But its do not work like that. At least anymore.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 29, 2012 @ 11:19 am

Hare Krishna!
Sita Rama dasanudasa posted:
So how can you say women are restricted from being guru unless you say they are unable to please Krishna by their occupation?

Dear prabhu. I didnot say that womens are restricted from being guru. Opposit – with all my heart I stand for:

vaco vegam manasah krodha vegam jihva-vegam udaropastha-vegam
etan vegan yo visaheta dhirah sarvam apimam prthivim sa sisyat

A sober person who can tolerate the urge to speak, the mind’s demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals is qualified to make disciples all over the world.

But – we speak about establishing varnasrama dharma – as Srila Prabhupada wanted. We discuss and hopefully we will continue discuss this topic till some important conclusions AND WE WILL START ACT accordingly. There are WORDS which are very, very, very important.
…is qualified to make disciples…
Its the same like with ISKCON – its International Society FOR Krishna Consciousness. If we are in ISKCON – this dosnt mean, that we are somehow in Krishna Consciousness by definition. But if we stand for it – so, its our home. And as I understand – we stand for ISKCON. Therefore we discuss.
IS QUALIFIED TO MAKE DISCIPLES dosnt mean that this person will make disciples or should make disciples.

Chaste wife, perfect stridharma practitioner is qualified to make disciples – no doubt, according qualification standart from Sri Upadesamritas first verse. Will She? We should ask Matajis, who are stridharma practitioners in our movement. They are qualified to speak about it.

For example – many devotees has a big problems with womens diksa guru issue. And not because they are against. But because they have a chaste wifes.

To know, what kind of rascals we are, and to know, what kind of tapasya our wifes perform with theyr lifes, to be able to live with us; To see everyday, how they perform theyr duties, despite all this socioeconomical system, which make normal family life allmost impossible – How we can go and listen to some Women Diksa Gurus, who will teach others in seminars/festivals/lectures how to live in family life, if those womendiksagurus had failed with qualification to back up the talk with theyr own lifes? How?

This is the problem – and not only because its on the border of aparadhas – towards women diksa gurus. But because its allready a aparadha – neglecting a stridharma womens in our movement…

If I am wrong – please correct me.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 28, 2012 @ 5:59 pm

Hare krishna!

One more point.

Sita Ram dasanudasa said:
And the conclusion that women are confined to the material plane is absolutely wrong.

Yes! But to conclusion, that women devotee who performs stri dharma, performs materialistic activities – its also not supported by shastras.

Stridharma means duties of a woman. She has to be motherly while feeding her family, she has to be an adviser while giving her opinion in matters relating smooth conduct of family affairs, and she has to give progeny (and not varnasankara). She has to have always in mind the welfare of her husband and other members of the family. In this way, stridharma has been broadly defined in vedas.
In other words – Stri dharma means exemplary service.
The concept means that by following the footsteps of her husband, a wife should attain an elevated position in life.

May I ask – where you see material plane? And how can you considere service to the vaisnavas (I speak about devotee families and for devotee families) material? One more point – even if husband is nondevotee – the chaste wife didnt get Karma, its a husband.

Obviously, if a woman truly loves her husband, she will do everything in her power to attract him towards her Krishna conscious life. “According to the Vedic law… there is no such thing as divorce laws, and a woman must be trained to be submissive to the will of her husband. Westerners contend that this is a slave mentality for the wife, but factually it is not; it is the tactic by which a woman can conquer the heart of her husband, however irritable or cruel he may be.”- SB 9.3.10p by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 27, 2012 @ 5:17 pm

Dear Sita Ram dasanudas prabhu!
Or You misunderstood me, or You are too busy with your agenda.
My thesis , “Therefore it will be correct to say – that mainly, the modern days womens greatest spiritual achievement will be capability to serve her husband senses in lifelong marriage” can never be in any opposition to the purpose, understanding, and goal, of all Vedic Scriptures. Because it is said in context.
Look at the context, please. If we look at the highest point – it sounds like opposition. But if we look from the beginner, for newcommer position to the vedic culture, to Krishna consciousness movement – its neccesity. Are we bhagavatas?

The point is – everyone within this material world is engrossed in the modes of passion and ignorance. One must promote himself to the platform of goodness, sattva-guna, by following the instructions of Rupa Gosvami. Promote. Gradually.

Srila Prabhupada acted in emergency – no doubt. But ISKCON should not become elephant movement. The elephant may get a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing? Similarly, many spiritual practitioners chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra and then commit many forbidden things. Should we think that such chanting will counteract offenses in anyway?

And I will never say that women should be restricted to stri-dharma – because its impossible in modern day society. But I will never agree, that stri -dharma is confined to the material plane only. Actually – this thesis can be offensive and in direct opposition to the purpose, understanding, and goal, of all Vedic Scriptures. Why? Because we speak about devotees and for devotees.

How Stri -dharma performed by devotee can be confined to the material plane only? How? Stri dharma means service. How Service to the devotees (kids, husband), to Vaishnavas (sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers) can be considered in material plan? How?
How can You teach ladies to become prostitutes and to let down your “not a bhagavata husband” (with hes weaknesses and faults) and encourage to find a better one “more devotee”?. How? May be therefore – by such logic – in our movement is so populare jumping from one Spiritual master to another, from ISKCON to Gaudiya Matha, from Gaudiya Matha to Brijabasis, from Brijabasis to Himalayas…
Are we personalists? How can we be so impersonal in our relationships?

I really hope, that you get the point.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 27, 2012 @ 4:38 pm

Hare Krishna!

In modern days (especially in the west) there are basically NO possibilities to engage wife in serving Krishna or in serving to the senses of her husband AGAINST HER OWN FREE WILL.

Therefore I would like to mention, that those several devotees who oppose female diksha gurus, they didnt speak about “engaging”, but rather – they call for common sense and for free will of a womens in our society.

Because care is no longer taken in marriage, we now find many divorces. Indeed, divorce has now become a common affair, although formerly one’s marriage would continue lifelong, and the affection between husband and wife was so great that the wife would voluntarily die when her husband died or would remain a faithful widow throughout her entire life. Now, of course, this is no longer possible, for human society has fallen to the level of animal society.

If “care in marriage” is not “serving to the senses of husband, kids or needs of wife” – then what is “care in marriage”? If “affection between husband and wife” are not sensual – then what is it? Marriage and friendship are proper between two people who are equal in terms of their wealth, birth, influence, physical appearance, and capacity for good progeny, but never between a superior and an inferior. We didnt join ISKCON on the platform of bhagavata… Isn it? Therefore it will be correct to say – that mainly, the modern days womens greatest spiritual achievemnt will be capability to serve her husband senses in lifelong marriage.

Otherwise we will never get out from level of animal society, and as we can see, nowadays even devotees live together simply by agreement. Dāmpatye ‘bhirucir hetuḥ. The word abhiruci means “agreement.” If the man and woman simply agree to marry, the marriage takes place. But because Vedic system is not rigidly observed, marriage frequently ends in divorce.

Therefore If the husband is actually protecting his wife, he will provide her with childrens (who will take care about her in oldage), with home (where she can take care about household, deities) and necessities (that she should not be insulted to go out and work). This is vedic system. And this will be great service to Krishna, to ISKCON and to society.

If society can discuss such a high topics as female diksha guru issues, but at the same time can not establish basic principles – no divorce, happy marriages, hardworking husbands, chaste womans, grateful kids – then something is really wrong.

Natarja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 25, 2012 @ 2:08 am

Varnasrama and Bhakti

Hare Krishna!
I really appreciate Pusta Krishna prabhus words:
“So, we can be gentle with those attached to family, etc, and say that they should live a proper God-centric life, and that is bonafide and correct, without any doubt, but for one who wants to immerse themselves in Krishna consciousness, they must also be given encouragement for development of sense control and full dedication to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. There is no discouragement of either proposition.”

You know – because here starts varnasrama. Especially, for one who wants to immerse themselves in Krishna consciousness. Its interesting, that there are still discussions: did Srila Prabhupada wanted varnasrama or not. Somehow – we forget that brahmacari asrams, sannyasi ashrams are established… Somehow – we forget, that there are brahmana threads, rules and regulations… Somehow – we forget many other things.
Somehow, we continue to discriminate and separate family life from devotional service.
Somehow we forget, that if there a preaching, must be following.

And may be I start to understand – why Kesava Krsna prabhu is so worry.
“That implementing of VAD can lead us to think that VAD is possibly equal to or greater than Bhakti, which would be an offence against the holy name.”
But at the same time – all Bhagavad Gita is Sri Krishnas encouragment to Arjuna for performing svadharma duties for the sake of performing svadharma duties, becaus Sri Krishna wanted that.

There are two kinds of sva-dharmas, specific duties. As long as one is not liberated, one has to perform the duties of his particular body in accordance with religious principles in order to achieve liberation. When one is liberated, one’s sva-dharma — specific duty — becomes spiritual and is not in the material bodily concept. In the bodily conception of life there are specific duties for the brāhmaṇas and kṣatriyas respectively, and such duties are unavoidable. Sva-dharma is ordained by the Lord, as it is clarified in the Fourth Chapter of Bhagavad Gita. On the bodily plane Sva-dharma is called varnasrama-dharma, or man’s steppingstone for spiritual understanding. Human civilization begins from the stage of varnasrama-dharma, or specific duties in terms of the specific modes of nature of the body obtained. Discharging one’s specific duty in any field of action in accordance with the orders of higher authorities serves to elevate one to a higher status of life.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 31, 2012 @ 8:38 am

Krishna kirti prabhu says:
“Accepting varnashrama means to accept a favorable condition for the execution of bhakti, and it also means abandoning other social conventions that are unfavorable”.

The point is – everyone within this material world is engrossed in the modes of passion and ignorance. One must promote himself to the platform of goodness, sattva-guna, by following the instructions of Rupa Gosvami. Promote. Gradually.

Srila Prabhupada acted in emergency – no doubt. But ISKCON should not become elephant movement. The elephant may get a very nice bath in the river, but as soon as it comes onto the bank, it throws dirt all over its body. What, then, is the value of its bathing? Similarly, many spiritual practitioners chant the Hare Krishna maha-mantra and then commit many forbidden things. Should we think that such chanting will counteract offenses in anyway?

Accepting varnasrama means to learn to tolerate the urge to speak, the mind’s demands, the actions of anger and the urges of the tongue, belly and genitals. But what for? To make disciples all ower the world? Really? Not really. Such person is qualified to make disciples all over the world – and its dosnt matter, is he sudra, women, westerner or brahmana, but because He is bhakta, vaishnava.

Bhakti didnt belong to brahmanas or sannyasies. Bhakti didnt belong to Gurus or brahmacaries only… And to be bhakta – its not a cheap thing. To be an elephant or elephantine, who all the time abandone other social conventions which looks to him like they ar unfavorable for immediate execution of “Bhakti” (Spiritual Carrier) – thats not a problem. But to be a simple bhakta, who fullfills Hes varna and asrama mundaine duties and gradually promote himself to the platform of goodness – thats the real challange.

Natarja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 26, 2012 @ 3:56 pm

Akruranatha prabhu said:
It has proven difficult building consensus among the devotees — and even among our leadership! — about how to incorporate Srila Prabhupada’s teachings about varnasrama-dharma in our own lives and families, in our organization of ISKCON and of specific ISKCON projects, and in preaching our public message to the world. For some reason this topic is like an electric third rail which can cause conflagrations of arguments and bad feelings within our community.

First of all I would like to mention that ISKCON is multicultural society. And we should count DVANDVA. What is good for one, is bad for someone else. For example – in India, preaching with accent to brahmacari lifestile, preaching for “not to much falling in family” and so on – this can be very productive, if we look at overpopulation and allready strong/close family culture.
But the same preaching strategy in western world, as wee see from the history – is devastating. Family institute is allmost nonexistant, and society is builded by unwanted population. DESA, KALA, PATRA. Therefore – for western devotees Varnasrama should start with simple, basic things – no divorce, loved kids, serving to husband, hard work. But for devotees from other cultures it can start with different things.
Therefore, if, after 50 years intensive preaching, temples are empty, and there are no one, who comes to Gaura Arati – this is result of neglecting Varnasrama…
In the west, there are discussions about – that there are no anymore Brahmacaries… But in reality – this is because of that there are no anymore Grihasthas. Just to live together “for service to Krishna” – why one should marry? Marriage means hard work, heavy responsibilities, care about kids. And then you will get brahmacaries who are brahmacaries not because they hate family life and kids (who are obstacles in “spiritual life”), but because they love theyr parents, brothers and sisters, and they feel great responsibility towards them and neccessity to help them with strictly following rules and regulations, and keeping mission high.

Nataraja dasa

» Posted By Nataraja dasa On Dec 25, 2012 @ 9:19 pm

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