Comments Posted By SarathyT
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So, when we say what is stated by the commentators in Sri Ramanujacharya’s guru paramparai, we become non-real/fake srivaishnavas. This is one of the most common strategy taken by people who dont know how to debate based on pramaanam (scripture).
In my post I did not show any envy towards Srila Prabhupada - infact I admire him very much for his contribution for vaishnava society. But just looking at post #2 from Demian, we can easily see that he thinks that srila prabhupada is greater than all acharyas of all sampradayas (fine to think for himself). And he thinks that if you dont cross the ocean you cant be called Jagadachaarya, etc. Its almost like if we dont accept his opinions we are doomed (pretty much sounds like christian preaching).
I did listen to the lecture of Embar Jeeyar swamy - indeed he is a respected scholar and a great srivaishnava. He does glorify the assembled devotees which is what is expected from any vaishnava. There are certain things which gets missed in live translation. It is obvious that the translator is trying to do a good job but often tries to present the sentences in Gaudiya context so it will reach the audience (mostly ISKCON members participating in the south indian yatra).
Also, obviously any srivaishnava, if they see a huge crowd of devotees (irrespective of the sampradhaaya) chanting nicely with vishnu bhakthi, they will say look azhwar’s words are happening even today. But the original meaning of “poliga poliga” needs to be understood from srivaishnava commentators because they are the one who learnt it under proper srivaishnava acharyas.
For example, if I have to understand something from tattva sandarbha or krishna sandharba, I have to go through the commentary of gaudiya purvaacharyas to get the proper understanding of it. not a mundane scholar or some one who just understands the sanskrit language and simply gives word-by-word meaning.
Again, I repeat that it is wonderful to see devotees chanting and their contribution all over the world is well respected.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 17.08.2012 @ 05:47
Srila Prabhupada has done a great service to the vaishnava system. He has taken the message overseas and spread it all over the world. He has done it without looking for personal fame, etc and has indeed created a global vaishnava community which shares nice vaishnava ideals.
What we have to be careful though is to claim credit for everything good mentioned in any scripture to be pointing to gaudiya vaishnava acharyas. As Sri scooty.ram explained, the commentators explain that the focus of this song is Sri Ramanuja who planted the seed of vishnu bhakthi and preached it all over India to start with. His message reached the nook and corner of India and many people in those days took up to vaishnavism when the whole of India was submerged in mayavada.
Sri Ramanuja was called jagad-acharya because all vaishnava sampradhaya acharyas (including gaudiya acharyas) unanimously accept the greatness of Ramanuja and quote him. This is what is called jagad-acharya - the one who presented the philosophy that is fundamentally acceptable by all wise men/acharyas (irrespective of their sampradhaaya) - and he was the first one to preach it all over India with full vigour. Ofcourse there are differences in philosophy - but vishnu bhakthi, service to vaishnvas, developing humility, desiring to leave samsaaram and reach vaikuntham, etc are those fundamental principles which are accepted by all vaishnava acharyas. jagad-acharya cannot be taken literally to one who is the acharya of the world, because even a common lay-man with minimum intelligence will understand that the world is filled with avaishnavas and vaishnava population is a very small percentage and even amongst those vaishnavas there are so many sampradhaayas/sub-sampradhaayas, etc. So it is not the followers - it is about the philosophy (bhakthi maargam) which was/is acceptable to all acharyas.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 13.08.2012 @ 10:12
Dear Gauranitai prabhu
Thankyou for your comments - I do understand that proper chanting means doing it as a service and asking for more service alone. But that stage is very difficult to attain since most devotees will find it difficult to cross the naama aabhas stage for a long time. It really requires Krishna krupa and Guru krupa to reach the pure stage of chanting.
What azhwars said about sriman narayana’s devotees can definitely be applied to all devotees who ecstatically sing and dance - glorifying lord’s names. And sure, it was a great act of charity by Srila Prabhupada to introduce this over to outside India in a larger scale and we can see the results.
But at times, devotees get carried away and start speaking inappropriately about another sampradaya/its acharyas in a way that may not acceptable for that sampradaya - we always have to be careful with dealing with devotees in general and especially with followers of another sampradaya, since we wont fully know the intricacies of the other sampradaya. As I have identified already, there are various misunderstandings about ramanuja sampraday in ISKCON and is propagated as well - a new devotee who hears this will start thinking along the same lines and everyone will get programmed to think like that. And that certainly is not beneficial for any one.
According to sastras, the lord has revealed many sampradayas to satisfy the needs/ruchi/rasa of different individuals - it is never all going to be one single sampradaya to which everyone will convert to - and this attitude of the author is what caused me to write my thoughts in this article. It is great to see avaishnavas becoming vaishnavas (since there is benefit for both the lord and the individual - the lord gets a devotee and the individual becomes a devotee of the lord) - but there is no need to pull in vaishnavas from one fold into another.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 14.02.2012 @ 13:07
Dear Gaurabnitai prabhu
I thank you for recommending to chant the names of the lord.
We are chanting the names of the lord everyday - it is already part of our daily routine - a vaishnava means engaging in “sravanam kirtanam vinor smaranam” - please understand, chanting of lord’s names is not something new and only present in Gaudiya vaishnava sampradaya. Nor is maadhurya rasa and many other things.
The main difference is we dont do chanting as a means to attain anything - we do it out of love - we have many 1000s of songs/slokas which are sung by azhwars (dating 5000+years back) and acharyas (in the last 1000+years) which focusses on many aspects/rasas - example: vaatsalya (in the mood of yasoda), maadhurya (in the mood of gopis), daasya (in the mood of hanuman), etc - there are songs in vislesha (separation) and samslesha (togetherness). Literally we can probably list out about 10000 slokas glorifying the lord. The Lord has more glories than we can ever think of. And all of these are chanted regularly. Beyond this, there are literally hundreds of thousands of lines of commentaries by our purvacharyas (they take one word in a sloka and can analyse/explain the meaning of that word in several pages - these words are not just human/material - they are so powerful with deep meanings). And all of these are well documented and is still in practice even today. Just to give an example - for “sarva dharmaan parityanja maam ekam saranam vraja” sloka alone we have 100+ pages of explanation/commentaries. Every word is analysed in so many ways, for people with any interest in krishna - these commentaries/explanations will taste like real nectar.
The moment we start chanting as means for something (even to free ourselves from the material world) it becomes a business dealing - so our purvacharyas have ensured that we always do everything for our lord as a goal/as our duty (because that is our nature to be engaged in lord’s service) but not as means.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 13.02.2012 @ 02:19
Dear GauraNitai Prabhu
The author is not simply asking srivaishnavas to chant harekrishna mahamantra (which is nice) - he is saying all ramanuja followers should become mahaprabhu followers - as much as I respect mahaprabhu - there is absolutely no need for ramanuja followers to become mahaprabhu followers to speed up our journey to the spiritual world. Ramanujacharya has identified the perfect process to us based on scriptural evidence to reach the lord - there is absolutely no shortcomings - only if there was we should look else where. That is why I am saying that there is some mis-understanding that makes the author (and probably yourself as well) thinks that we need something more to reach the spiritual world even quicker.
Actually speaking we have a clear guarantee according to our purvacharya literature (which is 100% consistent with sastras) that any one surrendered to an acharya coming under the lineage of ramanujacharya, will be delivered to spiritual world at the end of this very life - no questions asked - because we depend on our acharya’s/lord’s grace (instead of our own limited abilities) which is capable of lifting anyone from material world and placing them in spiritual world. In contrary, in ISKCON, I have heard some times, even when some devotees leave their body, other devotees saying “Hopefully he reached Krishna” - instead of saying “Glad he reached Krishna”.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 11.02.2012 @ 01:22
Just to give some context, I am a follower of srivaishnava sampradayam but have had lengthy relationship with ISKCON and have great devotee friends.
To start with, it is great to see one sampradayam celebrating/talking about other acharyas in a nice way. I have always appreciated this aspect in ISKCON particularly.
One observation I see in the author is his limited understanding Srivaishnava AKA Ramanuja Sampradayam - but presenting it as if he has thoroughly studied it. Also asking every srivaishnava to follow gaudiya vaishnava sampradayam on the basis of more recent incarnation sounds similar to islam claiming every christian/jew should convert to islam due to the advent of a more recent prophet for quick salvation.
There are a few misunderstandings about dasya rasa in general in gaudiya sampradaya (or atleast it is presented as such like that to general public). The point that is missed is - dasya rasa is the svarupa of jivatma (to quote from your own scriptures - JIvera svarUpa hoy kRSNera nitya-dAs) - whatever other rasa we get - its upto Krishna to engage us in that service - so, even one who is engaged in maadhurya rasa he/she must not forget that he/she is dasa/dasi because there can only be one boss - krishna - if it is forgotten then that maadhurya rasa will also be lost.
It would be best before commenting about other sampradayam (especially the philosophy) to do some detailed study of that sampradayam’s literature (rather than general hear say) with proper guidance.
sarathy ramanuja dasan
Comment Posted By SarathyT On 08.02.2012 @ 12:19