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The true story of a follower of Jesus who prayed to Him to be used in God’s plan

An interesting story from the early days of ISKCON

In 1976 I was Srila Prabhupada’s Body guard and not only stayed out the front of his room, but slept there as well. At the time four well shaven suited men, all in their forties would always come by the Temple harassing us with high teak cameras and listening devices. (Keep in mind that the average age of a devotee back then was twenty five so these adult men were pretty scary) They would also follow us our on street Sankirtan, film us and try to intimate the devotee’s distributing books by taking many, then ripping them up and throwing the books or magazines in a rubbish bin!

These men where part of a self appointed fundamentalist Christian deprogramming group that dealt with what they considered threats to the fundamentalist Christian’s youth being converted to other faiths. One afternoon Pushta Krishna Maharaj went down to speak to them and one of them, in a barrage of abuse, threatened to kill Srila Prabhupada. “These people are demons!” said Pushta Krishna Maharaj

Pushta Krishna Maharaj was terrified, horrified what these men had said, and was reluctant to even repeat it however; he did tell only a few devotees that Prabhupada’s life had been threatened. Hari Sauri prabhu, Srila Prabhupada’s servant, was appalled and discussed that a pure devotee of Krishna was threatened in this way and so concerned we bought a shot gun.

The next day I was outside hiding in a car out the front of ‘Prabhupada’s House’ as these men walked past, when I opened the door, one pulled out a hand gun’ The ring leader was high up member of this fundamental Christian group, a private detective known and even respected by many as a deprogrammer and even a rumoured hit man. Amoga dasa was at the front gate and out of fear, I crawled the front wall of the Temple, about 7 feet high at the time, so quickly that Amoga was astonished. We told Prabhupada what had had happened and he said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much succuss with today’s young people” we called the police and they spoke with them and Ugrashava dasa. The police did nothing, they new who he was, while Ugrashava just called them dogs of fundamentalist Christianity among other things.

At night I would stay out on the balcony of Prabhupada’s House with the shot gun, staying awake watching Srila Prabhupada translate late into the night. Even though the night was freezing cold out on the balcony, watching Srila Prabhupada gave me warmth as he translated and had his late night massage, which was truly amazing. Then after Hari Sauri prabhu left the room, Prabhupada would go around to all the windows and doors to make sure they where locked.

For days these men intimidated devotee and guests but we were told to ignore them, except for Ugrashave Prabhu who constantly gave them lip to let them know that nothing they could do could scare us because we had Krishna on our side

A week after Srila Prabhupada had left a drive by shooting occurred and gunshots went through one of the windows – Kurma prabhu’s room. He was there at the time and was fortunately unhurt. The next day it made page two of the Melbourne Sun. A few months after that someone through a small bomb over the back fence exploding on one of the cars, which made the first bulletin on the evening TV news all over Australia. The previous night, during my guard duty, I took some rest in that same car.

The out cry of the public, due to the media reports, seemed to stop any further attacks from these Christian fundamentalist fanatics.

During all these attacks we remembered what Srila Prabhupada had said ‘ “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much succuss with today’s young people”

» Posted By Svarupa On Dec 29, 2007 @ 6:08 pm

Our constitutional body is eternal, could it be that we are presently dreaming?

Akruranatha dasa everything you have written I agree with and have explained, except of course that we originate from tatastha consciousness.

What is tatastha consciousness?.

Tatastha means those living entities who are neutral, inactive or dormant in consciousness, who are border line, neither in the Vaikuntha’s or the mahat-tattva

The tatastha-shakti is located on the boundaries between the material and spiritual energies. Tatastha means “in between”. It also means that this consciousness condition of the marginal living entity is sometimes manifested and sometimes not manifested, like the material energy. Yet the potency is always there since it exists within the Supreme Lord. What is the marginal living entity? What is the jiva soul? What is the nitya-siddha perpetual body? What is nitya baddha consciousness? What is the Impersonal Brahmajyoti or Brahman?

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather the dormant state of the marginal living entities or jiva souls condition of being or inactive consciousness when they attempt to become inactive.

This motionless individual consciousness that can also be active or energetic in the mahat-tattva (material creation) is called the nitya-baddha inferior self or the secondary dreaming state of the marginal living entity. This nitya-baddha consciousness is the inferior dreaming condition that all marginal living entities can activate if they choose to use their free will to ‘dream’ of self importance and indulgence.

Srila Prabhupada- “There are many energies, but they have been divided into three principal ones: the external energy, the internal energy, and the marginal energy. We living entities are the marginal energy. Marginal means that we may remain under the influence of the external energy or we may remain under the influence of the internal energy, as we like”. From “The Journey of Self Discovery – His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

In other words, the marginal living entity, referred to as the jiva soul, has two aspects of consciousness; one is a perpetual Krishna Conscious bodily form (nitya-siddha) while the other is a non-Krishna conscious dreaming state (nitya-baddha)

The living entities are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy as perpetual bodily servants known as nitya-siddhas, when the marginal livig entity misuses their independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords; they are transferred to the material energy or mahat-tattva, not as their nitya siddha body, but as a secondary consciousness called nitya-baddha.
The Lord has three basic energies: internal, external and marginal.

The jivas don’t belong to the marginal energy, because they ARE the marginal energy that is embodied in their original full constitutional foundation, which is expressed as nitya-siddha in their innovative perpetual position. The marginal living entity can also be known as “tatastha sakti” due to their inferior or secondary nitya-baddha consciousness when it enters a dormant inactive state of consciousness, ONLY after being liberated from the mahat-tattva, which is really and factually the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti, or their own individual consciousness.

That means, although we are properly situated within the Lord’s internal energy in our ‘svarupa’ body eternally beyond mundane time and space, we always have the propensity to misuse our independence and try to act as enjoyers or lords that immediately disqualifies us from being aware of our ‘svarupa’ body and instead try to lord it over Krishna’s material energy that is under the jurisdiction of the sleeping and dreaming Maha-Vishnu.

In this way the jiva or marginal living entity, as their secondary dreaming sub-conscious self, falsely identifies with the Lord’s material energy, and in fact it predominates over them and defeats them repeatedly in their attempts, again and again to be the controller. The impermanent perishable nature of the mahat-tattva frustrates the nitya-baddha consciousness and eventually AGAIN they seek the shelter of Impersonalism or tatastha falsely thinking this is their original position..

————————————————————————————-
Srila Prabhupada – “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

In this context, the Brahma-sayujya and tatastha s’akti is a description of the marginal living entities in their dormant condition of consciousness

Srila Prabhupada – “The spiritual potency of the Lord is manifested in three phases — the internal or spiritual potency, the marginal potency, which consists of the living entities, and the external potency, known as māyā-śakti. We must understand that in each of these three phases the original spiritual potencies of pleasure, eternity and knowledge remain intact. When the potencies of spiritual pleasure and knowledge are both bestowed upon the conditioned souls, the conditioned souls can escape the clutches of the external potency, māyā, which acts as a cover obscuring one’s spiritual identity. When freed, the living entity awakens to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and engages in devotional service with love and affection”. Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 6.160

Srila Prabhupada – “The original characteristics of a substance are called svarūpa, and the subsequent corollaries are called taṭastha-lakṣaṇa, or marginal characteristics. The glories of the Lord’s marginal characteristics prove Him to be the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, the son of Mahārāja Nanda. As soon as one understands this, one accepts Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Śrī krishna.Śrī Caitanya Caritāmṛta Madhya 18.126

The forgetful jiva (marginal living entity manifesting as their secondary inferior consciousness), is now unaware of their perpetual ‘svarupa’ body in Goloka, becomes under the jurisdiction of Maha-Vishnu and provided with shelter within His Body, The marginal position of the jīva soul or living entity manifesting as their secondary nitya-baddha conscious projection, is completely forgetful of their perpetual nitya-siddha-svarupa body in Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada – “Established means re-establish. It is already established. We have got different types of relationship. That is called svarupa-siddhi. Svarupa-siddhi. When you are perfect in spiritual life, you will understand what is your relationship with Krishna automatically. That is called svarupa-siddhi”. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada – ‘So svarupa-siddhi is not something artificial. When one becomes perfectly spiritually realised, then he understands what is his relationship with Krishna, and he begins his service in that relationship as father, as friend, as guru or as servant, like that. So this relationship is eternal. (Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture, December 7, 1974, Bombay)

Srila Prabhupada – “…We are eternally conditioned, but as soon as we surrender to Krishna do we then become eternally liberated?…” You are not eternally conditioned. You are eternally liberated but since we have become conditioned on account of our desire to enjoy materialistic way of life, from time immemorial, therefore it appears that we are eternally conditioned” Letter to Aniruddha, dated November 14, 1968,

Srila Prabhupada – “Everyone has got a particular relationship with in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban)

The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection relying on the bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu”.

The nitya-baddha consciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha and about 170 other jiva definations however, they are all the extended secondary consciousness of their nitya-siddha body when one chooses to use their free will and ignore Krishna.

» Posted By Svarupa On Sep 27, 2007 @ 5:03 am

MARGINAL POTENCY

“The dissociable individual soul is distinct from the divine categories. He is a particle of the marginal potency of the divinity. Sri Nityananda who is identical with Balarama is the ultimate source of the jiva. The conditioned soul is a particle of the marginal potency, who has been sent into this world by the will of the Purusa, viz., Visnu reposing in the Causal Ocean, who is a plenary part of Nityananda exercising the divine function of creator of all mundane existence including the conditioned state without Himself belonging to the mundane plane”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Because he falls down from Brahma-sayujya (impersonal liberated condition also known as tatastha), he thinks that may be his origin, but he does not remember that long, long, long, long ago before that even, he was with Krishna”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

This subject is very difficult to comprehend however, Srila Prabupada clearly states that we, the marginal living entity, did not originate from a tatastha state of consciousness BECAUSE ALL marginal living entities or jivas have a perpetual bodily form that NEVER leaves Goloka or Vaikuntha, we only ‘think’ or ‘dream’ that we leave Goloka.

One should try and understand this and forget about this nonsense idea we, the marginal living entity or jiva, originates from some nonsense Impersonal tatastha s’akti concept of their own marginal consciousness. Such Impersonalism has unfortunately polluted so many Vaishnave groups and their presentation or translation of the Acarayas and Shastra.

What does that mean and what is the trueth? It simply means that our own marginal identity (also known as jiva) as its dreaming secondary bodiless consciousness is really the Impersonal aspect of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti. This secondary consciousness of the jiva soul or marginal living entity is simply a manifestation of the marginal living entities or jiva souls dormant or inactive as nitya-baddha secondary dreaming dreamless consciousness achieved only after actively travelling through the maha-tattva. Let me gradually explain as follows –

The Impersonal Brahmajyoti, tatastha, Brahma-sayujya and Impersonal Brahman is not a place where one goes; it is not some empty place or void, it is rather the dormant state of the marginal living entities or jiva souls secondary (nitya-baddha) condition of being or inactive consciousness when they attempt to become inactive after experiencing frustration within the mahat-tattva. Attempting to obliterate their consciousness means they have no information or realization that they (every marginal living entity or jiva soul) have a perpetual body eternally established within the timeless realm of Goloka-Vrndavana.

Srila Prabhupada rejected the idea we originated from the Impersonal Brahmajyoti and personally told us that we came down from Goloka some millions of years ago, not as our perpetual nitya-siddha body, but as a dreaming consciousness (nitya-baddha) that is facilitated with bodily costumes provided by Maha-Vishnu, or can eventually merge as an individual spark of consciousness within His body, which is true but only after we have ‘sub-consciously’ come down from Goloka as our secondary nitya-baddha dreaming sub-conscious thoughts .

Srila Prabhupada – “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, 18, 1977

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

Technically there is no origin to the jivas or living entities because they all have an eternal bodily form in Goloka or Vaikuntha that is there without beginning or end.

Srila Prabhupada – “In the Padma Purana, Uttara-khanda, it is stated that beyond the one-fourth part of God’s creation is the three-fourths manifestation . . . This part is eternal, everlasting, without deterioration, and unlimited, and it contains the highest perfectional stage of living conditions. In the Sankhya-kaumudi it is stated that unalloyed goodness or transcendence is just opposite to the material modes. All living entities [in the Vaikunthalokas ] are eternally associated without any break. . . everything in the transcendental world is everlasting . . . There are no such actions and reactions of cause and effects there, so the cycle of birth, growth, existence, transformations, deterioration and annihilation-the six material changes-are not existent there. It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world”. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

Srila Prabhupada – “Everyone has got a particular relationship with in his original, constitutional position. That will be revealed gradually as you advance in devotional service in the prescribed rules and regulations as they are directed in the shastras and by spiritual master. When you are trained up properly, you come to the platform of raga-marga, then your devotional si–… That is called svarupa-siddhi. (Nectar of Devotion lecture, 20 October 1972, Vrindaban)

Srila Prabhupada – “All living entities [in the Vaikunthalokas ] are eternally associated without any break. . . everything in the transcendental world is everlasting . . . There are no such actions and reactions of cause and effects there, so the cycle of birth, growth, existence, tranformations, deterioration and annihilation-the six material changes-are not existent there. It is the unalloyed manifestation of the energy of the Lord, without illusion as experienced here in the material world”. (Bhag. 2.9.10, purport)

The description of sparks in the effulgence or a particle or atom in a ray of light is correctly describing the nitya-baddha consciousness in the mahat-tattva and the nitya-baddha jiva-tatastha consciousness in the surrounding Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti that separates Vaikuntha from the maha-tattva. The other 75% of creation is full of nitya-siddha devotee of whom some are simultaneously in the mahat-tattva as a bodiless nitya-baddha conscious projection relying on the bodies or vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu”.

The nitya-baddha consciousness is the jiva-tattva and can also be the jiva-tatastha and about 170 other jiva definations however, they are all the extended secondary consciousness of their nitya-siddha body when one chooses to use their free will and ignore Krishna.

It therefore can be correct that the jiva soul comes from tatastha however, they all (nitya-baddha consciousness) have to first travel through the the mahat-tattva first before reaching that dormant state of their own dreamless dream.

The nitya-baddha or secondary dreaming condition of the jiva-tattva are the same, such a sub-conscious projection of the marginal living entity while forgetful of their nitya-sidda genuin and eternal bodily form serving Krishna in Goloka, is devoid of form until they are either given form by Maha-Vishnu or return back home back to Godhead as their original perpetual svarupa or rasa bodily form in Goloka.

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally.

» Posted By Svarupa On Sep 26, 2007 @ 4:25 pm

Yes we are dreaming our material continuation as well as our existence in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti (tatastha) if we dare go to that dreaming dreamless impersonal state of our own nitya-baddha consciousness.

Our original position is perpetually established in Goloka (nitya-baddha)beyond the mundane time and space of the mahat-tattva (material creation)

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “When we “return” to the spiritual world, it will only be to discover that indeed we never left, and there has always been right here. We are right now with Krsna, for Krsna consciousness is our svarupa, our eternal identity and perpetual constitutional position”. Ravindra Svarup dasa web site

Ravindra Svarup Prabhu – “We need only wake up and see where we are. All this is known to Srila Prabhupada and to the acaryas. They know how one can fall from a place no one falls from, enter into an ignorance that has always been, and return to a place one never actually left. Because such matters are inconceivable to mundane minds, when teachers speak of such things their words may seem contradictory. But in one way or another they all tell the whole truth” Ravindra Svarup dasa web site

Srila Prabhupada – “we are dreaming life after life. As human being, as animal, as tree, as aquatics. Jalaja nava-laksani sthavara laksa-vimsati. This evolutionary process is going on”.Bombay, December 27, 1972

Srila Prabhupada – “You are right when you say our past life is a dream only. Just like at night we see so many dreams and in daytime we forget everything. Similarly we forget everything of our past life and as such so long we do not be reposed to our spiritual factual life, all these changes of lives one after another are considered to be dreams” Letter to Nandakisora, Sunday, December 24, 1967

According to Srila Jiva Goswami the living entity may be designated as jiva-maya, whereas matter is called guna-maya. The living entity places his living potency (jiva-maya) in the grip of the mundane qualitative potency (guna-maya) and falsely dreams that he is part and parcel of the material world. Such an artificial mixture is called illusion or ignorance

Srila Prabhupada – “Awakening or dreaming, I am the same man. As soon as I awaken and see myself, I see Krsna” Letter to Australian devotees 1972

When we’re dreaming, we think it’s real. It seems real, no matter how mixed up the dream is. That’s life in the material world. We think it’s real, but it’s not. It’s a real dream. But still a dream.

Srila Prabhupada – “when the dream is finished, we come to another dream: “Oh, this is my house. This is my family. This is my bank balance.” This is going on. Dream. One dream at night, one dream at daytime. But who is dreaming? That is the living entity. So his business is different. Not dreaming, daytime dreaming and nighttime dreaming. He has to come to the actual platform. That is Krsna consciousness. If he takes to Krsna consciousness, that is his actual life. Otherwise, he’s in the dreamland” Bombay, December 27, 1972

There is no beginning or end to the creation so in the face of eternity time has no meaning because no one can measure something that has no beginning. In this way all the marginal living entities are always in their full expression of nitya-siddha-svarupa and that can never change.

All of us are eternally in Goloka since our devotional svarupa body can never fall down as the Srimad Bhagavatam and Gita teaches us. We just have to wake up from this mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu’s and realize this fact

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually no-one falls down from Vaikuntha because they never leaves Vaikuntha, they only ‘think’ they are fallen or ‘dream’ they are fallen but in perpetual reality one can never fall down”. Letter to Australian devotees 1972

In this dreaming state, after we enter the mahat-tattva dream of Maha-Vishnu, we forget our actual position and thus are free to act out our desire in our attempts to become the supreme enjoyer.

The Vedic texts describe that the Supreme Creator (In His Maha-Vishnu Form) produces the material world by His dreaming in yoga-nidra , His mystic slumber. Thus, the material creation is the Supreme Being’s dream, or a display of His thought energy. Furthermore, the Vedic literature describes how the Supreme Being exists outside the boundaries of the material manifestation from where He begins the process of creation. So, He is indeed “beyond what He created. These states of consciousness correspond with the four states known technically as jagrat, svapna, susupti, and turiya – or the wakeful state, the dreaming state, the dreamless state, and the transcendental state.

Srila Prabhupada – “This imaginary experience of a world separate from Krishna can be compared to the acts of dreaming and desiring. When the conditioned soul dreams at night of something desirable or horrible, or when he daydreams of what he would like to have or avoid, he creates a reality that has no existence beyond his own imagination” (Bhag.11.2.38)

Srila Prabhupada “Just as a dreamer dreams his being fast asleep and dreaming of things (friends, relations, business, etc.), which are really inside him, and when he wakes up from this dream to the original one, imagines himself awake though he is still dreaming, even so the perceiver should realise this waking (state) as a mere dream created by Maya, the jiva’s own deluding power.

Therefore one should break the illusion of this waking state by fixing one’s attention only on Me, its Witness. Know Me to be the transcendental Reality, the very Self (of the dreaming jiva), Brahman, the Consciousness which experiences and transcends the three states of waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep.

When Krishna is forgotten, the jiva (as there nitya-0baddha secondary self) comes to imagine himself different from serving Krishna and, thus, starts turning endlessly on the wheel of birth and death.

He who fails to take advantage of his human body through which he can acquire Self-knowledge and devotion, can never hope to live in peace. One should, therefore, stop indulging in activities which appear to be conducive to freedom and happiness, but from which one reaps nothing but misery. Using discrimination and wisdom one should give up the sense-pleasure of this world and the next and develop devotion to Krishna. For only through intense concentration of hearing and chanting the glories of Krishna can the mind acquire the power to realise the original identity and svarupa of the jiva (nitya-siddha) and their perpetual rasa with the Supreme Personality of Godhead (Krishna) whom is the sole aim of all human endeavour.

Srila Prabhupada – “A spirit soul who falls down from the Brahmajyoti to the kingdom of maya may have a chance of associating with a pure devotee, and then he may be elevated to the spiritual planets of Vaikuntha or to Goloka Vrindaban. From the Brahmajyoti there is no direct promotion to the spiritual planets, and it is clearly stated in the Bhagavatam that such souls fall down: patanty adha”. 69-07-24. Letter: Rupanuga

We are all dreaming as our nitya-baddha secondary self within the dreams of Maha-Vishnu’ Our authentic constitutional eternal self is nitya-siddha in Goloka
We all can enter Maha-Vishnu’s mahat-tattva creation, however no one originates from Maha-Vishnu’s dreaming mahat-tattva creation. We can only enter His dark cloud as our dreaming nitya-baddha lower self that is then given vessels by Maha-Vishnu to act out our mistaken desires within His mahat-tattva (material creation)

Srila Prabhupada – “So this dreaming condition is called non-liberated life, and this is just like a dream. Although in this material calculation it is a long, long period, as soon as we come to Krishna consciousness then this period is considered as a second”. Letter from Srila Prabhupada in 1972 to devotee in Australia

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking. Just like in the dream you are thinking that tiger is eating you. You were never eaten by tiger. There is no tiger. So we have to get out of this dream. (Lecture on Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 7.108–San Francisco, February 18, 1967)

Srila Prabhupada “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha, “. Srimad-Bhagavatam Class 7.9.4– Mayapur, February 18, 1977

It is clear when Srila Prabhupada refers to our “Old” consciousness he meant that we are eternally with Lord Krishna in Goloka Vrindavan as our imperishable devotional eternal nitya-siddha-svarupa (bodily form) devotional body eternally.

Srila Prabhupada -“Because the living being can appear either in matter or in spirit, the jiva is called the marginal potency” CC Adi 5.41 pp.

Srila Prabhupada explains that ‘marginal’ means the tendency of the living being to reject the sanction of the Lord and act independently within the material creation or mahat-tattva”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Because I wanted. I wanted to forget Krishna, so Krishna is giving consciousness: “All right, you can forget Me in this way.”

Srila Prabhupada- ‘That is His kindness. Just like the Mayavadis, the so-called yogis and karmis, they wanted to forget. Krishna is giving him intelligence. “All right. You forget Me like this.” That’s all. Go on.

Srila Prabhupada – “And if you want to again revive your relationship, Krishna will give you intelligence. Buddhi yogam dadami tam yena mam upayanti te: “I shall give intelligence.” So KrishnaYe yatha mam prapadyante. As you want, Krsna gives you facility. is… ”

Srila Prabhupada – “Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become… Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krsna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, so Krishna has given an opportunity”April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan

Devotee: What position did we occupy in the spiritual sky before we fell into the material world?

Srila Prabhupada: You are already in the spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. You are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly… The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krishna by the cloud of illusion that is material. Try to understand. There is allotted(?)… When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky. When the cloud is clear, you are in the same sky. But the difference of position is due to the cloud. That is called Maya. When you forget Krishna, that is material. And as soon as you become Krishna conscious, that is spiritual. Just like here, this temple is not in London. It is Vaikuntha. In a Srimad-Bhagavatam lecture given in London, on July 30, 1971 –

Srila Prabhupada says that we are always with Krishna and are now in a situation where “we think we have fallen’.

Srila Prabhupada -“As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.”

Srila Prabhupada – “Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In the dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that”.

Srila Prabhupada – “This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the “seen” disappears. But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Our separation from Krishna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krishna desire for sense gratification is there”. (Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course–May 13, 1973, Los Angeles)

Srila Prabhupada -“Actually we are not fallen. We cannot be fallen. But we have created a situation that we are, become… Try to understand, understand. It is very important point. We have simply created a situation. We have not created a situation, Krishna has given us a situation. Because we wanted to imitate Krishna, so Krishna has given an opportunity: “All right. Imitate. You want to be imitation king in the stage. So feel like this. Play like this. Do like this.April 20, 1972, in Tokyo, Japan

Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976 Questions to Srila Prabhupadfa of how we fell down from Goloka,(not as our nitya-siddha body) as our dreaming nitya-baddha dreaming consciousness –

Guru-krpa – “They say that in the spiritual world we say that everything is peaceful, there is no birth and death, there is no material conditions, so why if the conditions in the spiritual world are so nice and everything is spiritually, everything is spiritual, how is it that one can become envious of Krishna in such conditions? This is a very . . .”
Acyutananda – “The original sin”.

Sudama- “Why we are envious”.

Guru-krpa – “How is it that, if everything is free from envy, free from bad material elements . . .”

Srila Prabhupada – ‘Yes’.

Guru-krpa – “How is it that . . .

Srila Prabhupada – “That is independence. In spite of all these things, because you have got little independence, you can violate”.

Sudama – “It is very hard to understand”.

Srila Prabhupada – “No, it is not difficult. It is not difficult”.

Acyutananda – “It is not difficult. They don’t want to understand”.

Srila Prabhupada – “Because you are part and parcel of God, God has got full independence, but you have got little independence, proportionately, because you are part and parcel”.

Acyutananda – “But in the Gita, it says, “Once coming there, he never returns.”

Srila Prabhupada – “But if he likes, he can return”.

Acyutananda – “He can return”.

Srila Prabhupada – “That independence has to be accepted, little independence. We can misuse that. Krsna-bahirmukha hana bhoga vancha kare. That misuse is the cause of our falldown”.Mayapur, India, on February 19, 1976, Srila Prabhupada

Acyutananda – “In Krsna book it says that there were some color fighting in Dvaraka. They were throwing color. And some men became lusty seeing the women. So is . . . Will that be the first part of their falldown, to be in Vaikuntha and think of personal lust with Krishna’s associates?”

Srila Prabhupada – “Yes”.

Srila Prabhupada – “So as eternal servitors of Krishna—our constitutional position—we fall down when we try to become the enjoyer, imitating Krishna. That is our downfall”. Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967

Srila Prabhupada – “Krishna is the Supreme Enjoyer, and we are constitutionally to be enjoyed by Him, and when we revive this constitutional position where is no more Maya. Krishna Consciousness gives us the opportunity of rendering service to Krishna, and this service attitude only can replace us on our original position” Letter to Jananivasa Prabhu, dated August 27, 1967

» Posted By Svarupa On Sep 24, 2007 @ 5:31 pm

“Brahma-sayujya and Krishna lila—both may be possible.” He makes the point that we are always in Krishna lila, even now. So even if the Jiva has origin in brahmajyoti, that is also Krishna’s lila, that should be clear’. – Amalagaura

(Adi.1.92): “The foremost process of cheating is to desire to achieve liberation by merging in the Supreme, for this causes the permanent disappearance of loving service to Krishna.”

Therefore, those who have reached mature spiritual realization look upon merging into the Brahman effulgence as a great mistake.

Sri Nandanandana dasa – “Since the Brahman effulgence is considered to be but one of the opulences of the Supreme, it should be understood that whenever the Vedic texts speak of Brahman, they are indicating the Supreme Personality of God. In fact, it is stated that in the Vedic literature the word Brahman means, “in whom all the attributes reach to the infinity.”

In this way, it is clear that Brahman primarily means the Supreme Person, of whom the Vedic literature is full of descriptions of various aspects of His infinite qualities and characteristics.

The Caitanya-caritamrita clearly states: “The word ‘Brahman’ indicates the complete Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is Sri Krishna. That is the verdict of all Vedic literature.” (Cc.Madhya-lila, 6.147)

The Caitanya-caritamrita (Adi.7.112) also explains that, “Everything about the Supreme Personality of Godhead is spiritual, including His body, opulence and paraphernalia. Mayavadi philosophy, however, covering His spiritual opulence, advocates the theory of impersonalism.”

One can be liberated from material existence by merging into the Brahman or the Impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti, where there is eternity and knowledge. However, there is no real ananda or bliss there. The only pleasure in the brahmajyoti is the freedom from all material suffering.

Some yogis think such pleasure, which may be felt on elementary levels of meditation, is a sign of reaching the final goal. But real ananda is found only in spiritual engagement. Without understanding this, one’s spiritual knowledge is incomplete.

Sarva-gattah – “The goal of the impersonalists is to merge into the Brahman effulgence or Impersonal Brahmajyoti, where they lose all of their individual characteristics that is simply another form of dreaming. If the nitya-baddha consciousness succeeds to enter a dormant dreamless state, they remain there as an inactive spiritual spark, (nitya-baddha consciousness) floating in the rays of the brahmajyoti. They do not realize that they have a nitya-siddha body in Goloka or Vaikuntha that again gives them the opportunity to engage in various spiritual personal activities because they do not know about their full bodily identity in Goloka. The whole creation including the maha-tattva exist within the Brahman effulgence.

Therefore there are three aspects to the Brahmajyoti effulgence, the original source is perpetually Personal and active in bodily form, while the Impersonal is inactive, bodyless and devoid of devotional service. The third is the mahat-tattva or material creation.

So, if the nitya-baddha consciousness in the Impersonal Brahmajyoti again has any yearning for engaging in activities, they cannot go back to the spiritual planets because they are not qualified to do so, so they are forced to seek shelter in the mahat-tattva or material world where they start over again confoned to ethereal and biological bodily vessels.

Sri Nandanandana dasa -‘The idea of achieving spiritual liberation by merging into the Brahman effulgence is considered the process of a cheating religion. Why it is considered this is that it destroys the opportunity for people to re-establish their loving relationship with the Supreme’.

This is confirmed in the Caitanya-caritamrita (Adi.1.92): “The foremost process of cheating is to desire to achieve liberation by merging in the Supreme, for this causes the permanent disappearance of loving service to Krishna.”

Therefore, those who have reached mature spiritual realization look upon merging into the Brahman effulgence as a great mistake.

Sarva-gattah – ‘From this verse it is clear that without going beyond the Brahman effulgence (Impersonal Brahmajyoti), one cannot see the real perpetual bodily form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, or their own perpetual ‘svarupa’ active bodily identity.

If one reaches the stage of realizing the Brahman (IMPERSONAL BRAHMAJYOTI) and becomes convinced that he has attained the ultimate, then he does not have complete understanding or full realization of his full constitutional bodily origins and potential. He still must go further until he has reached the source of the Impersonal Brahmajyoti, which, according to the Isa Upanishad, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead where one is eternal actively serving Krishna as an eternal bodily form without end or beginning. This is the real position of all marginal living entities

Your servant Svarupa

» Posted By Svarupa On Sep 19, 2007 @ 6:55 am

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