Comments Posted By Urmila
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Obeisances. Jaya Prabhupada! I find it fascinating, sad, and amazing that Prabhupada’s instructions to men (not to women!) to see and address women other than their wife as ‘mother’ have spawned a concocted philosophy about women’s roles in society. Prabhupada explained that this cultural (not spiritual) instruction from Canakya Pandita serves the purpose of men seeing women other than their wife in a non-sexual way. There is never any instruction from sadhu-sastra-guru for women to call other women mother, or to call themselves mother, or to see this cultural address as something spiritual, or to then make up all sorts of explanations about women’s positions based on something cultural and practical–men seeing women other than their wife non-sexually, as they would see their mother. Unless women have wives, how can they see other women “except their wife” as mother?
Of course, in a natural society both men and women marry young and become parents at a young age. So, for the majority of women to become biological mothers in their youth is the way of nature and, for most women, is helpful to make the mind peaceful for spiritual life. So, if we really and truly want to apply sadhu-sastra-guru to women’s cultural role in society, let us help young people to find good spouses and encourage them to raise godly children.
But most important is that we all develop bhakti and see ourselves as the servants of everyone, especially all other devotees. Most important is that we free ourselves from upadhis and come to the platform of “I’m a servant of the servant of the servant of Krsna.”
Your servant, Urmila devi dasiComment Posted By Urmila On 15.04.2013 @ 07:07
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
In the society envisioned by the author of this article in Dandavats, we would not be able to read this other article: http://news.iskcon.com/node/4233/2012-03-03/mumbais_bhaktin_radhika_breaks_book_distribution_records#ixzz2GjMdfN00
Your servant
Comment Posted By Urmila On 17.01.2013 @ 09:38
This post is excellent testimony to the power of studying Srila Prabhupada’s books. HH Bhakti svarupadamodara Maharaja personally told me that Prabhupada had instructed him to combine the BI with gurukula in terms of developing curriculum. This cooperation between primary/secondary education and the MI must please his Divine Grace very much.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 23.09.2011 @ 17:37
"I do not want to be a woman in varnashrama"
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you for this article. I have personally concluded that a woman’s place in varnasrama is not well understood. A philosophy and social organization that are true, that come from the Absolute Truth, must be one that provides each individual with authentic personal expression both material and spiritual. If we understand a social system to mandate that a person’s nature is repressed (which Krishna advises against) then such a system must not be fully true. Because I believe varnasrama to be a system of truth, I also believe it must be a system where both men and women can authentically express both their ashrama and varna natures and to do so in such a way as to nourish and allow full expression of their spiritual nature.
I have found that those who say women do not need such expression cannot live what they preach and end up being who they are anyway. Such is what Krishna predicts in the third and eighteenth chapter of the Gita–our choice is not to repress our nature, nor to artificially do another nature. Our choice is to use our nature properly in devotional service, or improperly for maya. We each–yes, women, too–have three aspects to our nature. One is spiritual and eternal. One is varna and for this life. It changes from one life to the next. The other is ashrama that changes as we age in life. All three need authentic expression in Krishna’s service, whether one is male or female, black, white, brown or otherwise.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 10.07.2011 @ 01:34
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Anyone who is interested in guru/sadhu/sastra on this issue can read the paper on female disksa gurus at http://www.dandavats.com/?page_id=506 The GBC accepted this paper and approved, in 2009, the idea that women could initiate disciples in ISKCON.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 24.04.2011 @ 17:13
Live From Sri Mayapur Candrodaya Mandir! HG Urmila Mataji
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you, Sita devi dasi, for your comment 350 which makes things very clear and helps me appreciate your concerns, your courage, and your dedication to your service.
I offer my obeisances to all those participating on this comment thread and reading it who recognize the pivotal role of women in whether a society is stable or unstable, even when we do not agree on all areas of application.
“Wherever there are individuals there is bound to be difference of opinion.” (Letter to Rupanuga, 14 February, 1973) “If there is sometimes slight disagreements between devotees, it is not due to impersonalism, but it is because they are persons, and such disagreements should not be taken very seriously.” (Letter to Atreya ,4 February, 1972) “I am very much stressing nowadays that my students shall increase their reading of my books and try to understand them from different angles of vision. Each sloka can be seen from many, many angles of vision.” (Letter to Tribhuvanatha, 16th June, 1972) “Just like in your country there are political parties, Democratic …Republican. Although they are party, their aim is how to develop the country… So don’t think the party means some opposite party. No. Everyone has got for the advanced devotee to serve the Lord in a particular way so that the Lord may be more satisfied. That is their intention. Sometimes we also have some parties in the temple… everyone wants that “I shall serve the Lord in this particular way.” We cannot change the original rules and regulation, but there is variety. We are not impersonalist. Every person has got to serve the Lord in a particular way, and that is allowed. The central point is Krsna. So although there are parties, if the central point is Krsna, so there is no dissension. It is a competition, that “My Godbrother, my Godsister, is serving such a way. She is so well versed in this art. Why not try myself to do something?” This is variety. That is not this ordinary party strife if we make Krsna the center.” (lecture Caitanya-caritamrta, Adi-lila 1.15 Dallas, March 4, 1975)
Offering all respects to the sanga of Vaisnavas and Vaisnavis here, I regret that due to pressing family and service responsibilities, I do not have time at present to continue adding to this discussion. Begging your forgiveness, I remain
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 20.07.2011 @ 09:05
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
In response to comment 340 quoted here:
Dear Mataji,
Hari Bol.
Could you explain the meaning of what you are trying to say in this text. It really seems unrelated to the whole comment thread.
yhs
MMddand in response to comment 343 quoted here:
Dear Urmila Devi. I like your explanation to instruct us better in devotional service! I am ten years of aspiring service and not chosen guru maharaja. To me topics like dandavats inspire me to work better in spiritual consiciousness so I know Krsna speaks through devotees. I hope you will kindly give more explanation about your post about Caitanya caritamrita.
yours in service
bhaktin lisanne
MtlDear Madana Mohini devi dasi and Bhaktin Lisanne,
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
This comment thread is to some extent about the subject of my class-the educating of children in Krishna consciousness. It is also to a greater extent about whether or not I, in a woman’s body, should be giving a class, or any instruction at all, in the presence of superiors according to ashrama, gender, and managerial position. I posted that quote (CC Madhya 25.267) to show that superiors have, as part of their duty, asking inferiors to speak and give instruction in their presence. Doing so is part of the training of the juniors.
My point is that if the superior instructs the junior to speak or give instructions in the presence of the superior (and/or other superiors), then deference to the others’ seniority takes the form of speaking in their presence.
Who has asked me to speak/ordered me to speak and preach? My guru, Srila Prabhupada, my local GBC (various ones over many years), my husband, my sons, and the local ISKCON authorities at places where I speak.
I hope that is clear.
I have also asked–and never received a reply–as to why those who feel a junior should never preach or give instructions in the presence of superiors are giving instructions on this thread although their superiors (in the way they define superiors) are present. I believe their reasons for doing so are not that much different from mine.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 18.07.2011 @ 05:58
Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu broadcast the purpose of Srimad-Bhagavatam. He sometimes spoke for the benefit of His devotees and sometimes empowered one of His devotees to speak while He listened.
PURPORT: Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, as an ideal teacher, or acarya, explained Srimad-Bhagavatam very elaborately Himself. He sometimes also empowered His devotees to speak while He listened. This is the way an acarya should train his disciples. Not only should he describe the Bhagavata cult personally, but he should also train his disciples to speak on this sublime subject.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya-lila 25.267Comment Posted By Urmila On 14.07.2011 @ 01:39
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Thank you, Sita Rama, for your comments. Yes, in Mayapur the morning classes were given by sannyasis, householders, vanaprasthas, GBC, non-GBC etc.
Prabhupada writes, “Materially a woman may be less intelligent than a man, but spiritually there is no such distinction. Because spiritually everyone is pure soul. In the absolute plane there is no such gradation of higher and lower. If a woman can lecture nicely and to the point, we should hear her carefully. That is our philosophy. But if a man can speak better than a woman, the man should be given first preference. But even though a woman is less intelligent, a sincere soul should be given proper chance to speak, because we want so many preachers, both men and women.” Letter to: Jayagovinda — Los Angeles 8 February, 1968
Please note that Prabhupada says preference should only be given to a man if the man can speak better (not according to age or varnasrama or gender), and that all sincere souls should be given a chance to speak. In order to fulfill that desire of Srila Prabhupada, senior people sometimes will request juniors to speak. Yes, the quote of SB 3.4.26 says the junior should not be eager to speak in the presence of a senior, but if the senior requests or orders, then the junior should follow the order of the senior.
Here is an example, in an unrelated topic, of this same principle:
“It is the duty of a chaste wife, devoted to her husband, not to utter her husband’s name, but all of you chant the name of Krsna. How can this be called a religious principle?” ..Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, “You do not know religious principles. Actually, the first duty of a chaste woman is to carry out the order of her husband. “The order of Krsna is to chant His name incessantly. Therefore one who is chaste and adherent to the husband Krsna must chant the Lord’s name, for she cannot deny the husband’s order. (CC. Antya 104, 106-107)I continue to be confused as to why some of the women unconditionally opposed to women “imparting instructions” in the presence of superiors are writing comments here, even if their husbands are dictating every word. Or even if someone has requested to (since they seem to feel such requests should be disregarded). By age, time in Krishna consciousness, position of the person’s guru, and ashrama status, the seniors of these women *and their husbands* are writing here.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 01.07.2011 @ 19:50
Please accept my obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!
Because 50-150 new people a day are reading this thread, some friends convinced me that I should continue to contribute at least from time to time….
I just finished giving a Bhagavatam class on 1.10.23 and was meditating on the fact that verses 21-30 in that chapter are the words of women of Hastinapura glorifying Lord Sri Krishna. Those women are not just giving a class about Bhagavatam–those women’s words and realizations are the very Bhagavatam itself. Highly elevated men and women have read, heard, and meditated upon those words of women for thousands of years.
Certainly, Ram Mohan Prabhu (comment 283), if a person wants to elevate themselves they should follow the advice of the Bhagavatam:
srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah
punya-sravana-kirtanah
hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani
vidhunoti suhrt satamSri Krsna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma [Supersoul] in everyone’s heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves virtuous when properly heard and chanted.
SB 1.2.17I do not have any good qualities and yet I practically experience that speaking about Krishna is the most wonderful and enlivening activity possible anywhere, for anyone. If we want to elevate the people of the world, we should engage everyone in this process. It is most amazing. Thank you, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, for opening the floodgates, and thank you, Srila Prabhuapda, for bringing this sweetness of Bhagavatam hearing and chanting to the world. I also deeply respect, and am grateful for, the traditionalists who have contributed to this thread and elsewhere (I consider myself a traditionalist, as well, though some will disagree!) because they want to uphold standards of proper behavior in order to have a foundation for spiritual life.
Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
Comment Posted By Urmila On 21.06.2011 @ 18:52
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