Comments Posted By ykd108

Displaying 1 To 10 Of 29 Comments

Response to the ongoing debate

Comments on Post No. 10
Amara wrote: “If we are truly interested in preaching to the gay community and including them in Krsna consciousness, this will involve including them on all levels whether as celibate monks or as householder congregational members.”

We don’t see an en masse effort, in ISKCON, to preach to homosexuals. You are the one interested in that effort; and that’s your prerogative; we honor that. But, what we don’t buy from such endeavors is that fact that you want us to give a blanket acceptance of all homosexual behavior within the social and organizational life of ISKCON. That’s what are objecting to.

Why are you so keenly interested in the rest of ISKCON to accept homosexual behavior as normal?
Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 27.03.2007 @ 20:49



Let me enter into this debate, if I may. Really the issue at stake is whether “practicing” homosexuals are to be socially accepted within ISKCON ranks. That is to say, whether they should be allowed to participate in public functions (religious or otherwise), whether they – as ‘couples’ – are allowed to come into temples to mingle with the others, whether their presence, in this social milieu, is detrimental to the children who are obviously present in ISKCON temples’ functions, whether practicing homosexuals are a bad example to our children in ISKCON.

Amara has hinted that, “We should not think that we will preach Krsna consciousness only to the brahmanas and people following the principles. That automatically leaves out 95% of humanity!”

We can only agree with that statement because it does not address the thorny issues of practicing homosexuals’ bad habits. Once the issue of social acceptability of practicing homosexuals is brought to discussion, then many – if not most grhasthas – will object to his assertion.

Nobody has a problem with practicing homosexuals carrying on with their business, in private. But, when they push for social (and religious) acceptability, then most of us will object, because we have a lot to lose if we don’t; we have a lot at stake.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 21.03.2007 @ 14:13

Krishna Bedtime Stories

Where can we find such books?
Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 08.03.2007 @ 16:34

Slavery to Banks: A Vedic Prophecy


Parivari prabhu has asked a direct question about economics and how it could benefit ISKCON, without devotees getting into trouble. I am currently working on an article about the subject. And those concerns will be addressed therein.

Thanks. Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 08.03.2007 @ 16:32

Dear Kulapavana Prabhu,
This is my response to your post number 21.

“If I understood you correctly (after all, according to you I am supposed to be easily confused even by my own words) you make the point that since both Srila Prabhupada and myself used fiat money every day we have no business calling people who issue them rascals and crooks.”

Agreed. We can say whatever we want to whomever we want (in America anyway; not so much anywhere else), since we have freedom of speech. And that’s why we are having this exchange here. Srila Prabhupada certainly has his reasons to say what he said in that taped conversation you brought up. But notice that what he wrote in the purport to the Bhagavatam sloka (which started this whole thing) is softer or milder, significantly more, than just calling the economists of the world rascals and crooks.

This brings yet another issue, that of hermeneutics and exegesis; i.e., Vaishnava hermeneutics and exegesis, especially in the language Srila Prabhupada used to speak and write. The amazing thing is that Srila Prabhupada, using much simplicity in his language, was able to convey the meaning of who Krishna is (no small task at all), thus changing the lives of countless individuals around the world. Yet, some instances are there in which it is required the cautious endeavor to understand what he meant. Words by themselves have meanings — oftentimes, multiple meanings. When words are inserted in sentences or paragraphs, and even concepts, they may take different meanings, and not necessarily the ones we are first prompt or inclined to grasp.

Take for example, the purport of the Bhagavatam, in which Prabhupada wrote that “women like to be raped” (I can’t remember which verse it is, but those of you who have the Vedabase can figure it out.) If, right now, we trumpet to the whole world that statement without exercising hermeneutics, without understanding what Prabhupada meant by that, without analyzing his command of the language, or cultural expressions unique to English-speakers, without understanding the time in which Prabhupada grew up which would have some bearing in the way he spoke and syntax he used, we would be severely damaging not only his image but his preaching mission as well. If we take those words, as they appear, at first, and just throw them at people whom we want to save from the clutches of maya, the result would be 100% counter-productive. We would be probably be regarded as worst than the Taliban dimwits, at least they don’t advocate such a thing about women. Was Prabhupada wrong in writing such statement? No. It is up to us, his followers, to represent him appropriately to the world.

Similarly, if we go around the world, calling out that economists and Statemen are cheaters for having devised the use of fiat money, to facilitate commercial trade, without understanding the implications thereof, without exercising due diligence in what we want to accomplish, as preaching force, then we may have undesirable results.

There is much work to do in the field of exegesis of Prabhupada’s writings and words.
“That point is actually quite absurd. What was Srila Prabhupada to do? Barter for a bus fare in NY with rasagulas? Or issue his own money based on a gold standard? Both of these would be illegal in US, so they are not even an option. So much for your “argument”…”

Agreed. That was the whole point of my posts.
“Srila Prabhupada had a very broad vision for Krsna Consciousness Movement. He thought big. He wanted his disciples to look at this world and not be confused or cheated by it’s crooks and rascals.

Agreed. But, I think he wanted us to be intelligently disposed to convey his teachings to the world. We can’t rely on wild speculations, conspiracy theories, and doomsday propositions, which was the original problem with Sri Nandananda prabhu’s post.

“More importantly, he wanted to change the world by starting a revolution, not a sleek marketing campaign for a streamlined, uncontroversial version of popular spirituality for the masses. It was precisely that grand vision of Srila Prabhupada that inspired many of us to join his movement in the first place.”

Agreed, absolutely. That revolution is a revolution of the heart. First, we need to change ourselves, then we may be able to change others, then society, then the institutions it comprises will most likely change as a result of revolution in consciousness. The revolution is not an economic one, nor even a political one. Changes in those spheres will come, once the individuals have changed their outlook of life to one purified by KC.
“Perhaps your debate is really with Srila Prabhupada and his vision. Perhaps you think that it would be better to avoid raising such topics and stirring up controversies. Maybe we should bury all the “inconvenient” Prabhupada quotes somewhere deep, where nobody can find them? Well, too late for that.

Debating Prabhupada and his mission? How could I? I have dedicated a good part of my life (30 years of my 47 in this body) to his mission. Basically, I grew up with his vision. I have participated in his mission (both as brahmacari and grhastha), and will continue to do so, not matter what. To this day, I have invested not only time, but financial resources in his mission. What I am proposing is a serious exegesis and hermeneutics of his words and writings (whenever needed or warranted), before we hit the streets with good intentions but with bad or inadequate material in our hands and heads.
“It is a nice sentiment and a catchy phrase, but as the above discussion shows, some of the “things of this world” are more appropriate for use in presenting Krsna Consciousness than others.”

Agreed on this one too. Not all things can be used in spreading KC. Just as not all attitudes and dispositions of the mind are conducive to attain and spread KC. Yet if Prabhupada used fiat money to operate in this world, we should do the same. This is a different proposition, than the one espoused by Sri Nandananda prabhu’s original post, which he, it seems, is unable to sustain.
“And it takes smart people with integrity and knowledge of the shastra to figure out what is to be used, and what is to be rejected.”

That’s the whole idea. Integrity, that’s a big word. If may add, we ought to represent Prabhupada with integrity, and that is reflected in our actions and behavior. “Like father, like son.” Yet we are not called to imitate the father.


Now, it think that the best thing that came out of this whole exchange of ideas, in this forum, is not differences of opinions in the realm of macroeconomics, rather the crux is realizing that there is a lack of exegesis and hermeneutics work in relation to Srila Prabhupada’s literary legacy. In my humble opinion, that will solve a lot of the confusion that usually surrounds quoting Prabhupada out of context.

Thanks to all of you for enriching my life.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 21.02.2007 @ 17:48

Kulapavana prabhu,

Thanks for that quote from Prabhupada. Despite of what Prabhupada stated in that quote, he himself used fiat money to push on the KC Movement. He never stated NOT TO USE IT. As I said before, we have to work with what we have.

Your post is another classic example of quoting Prabhupada out of context.

You wrote: “Srila Prabhupada did not mince words here. He called people who see nothing wrong with the fiat money system “fools”, and the ones who issue fiat money he called “cheaters” and “rascals”.

You continue to misunderstand the point. Your words are very confusing, even to yourself. Based on your statement, someone could infer that Prabhupada was mistaken in using fiat money. Notice that Prabhupada says that he remembers ‘in his childhood’ the use of gold and silver coins. This indicates that most of his life, he used fiat money. When he was grhastha, he used fiat money; when he was sannyasi, he used fiat money. Now, where is the problem with that? What is the issue that you people want to press, ad infinitum and ad nauseam, with no productive understanding of what is going on outside of your psychological shells.

The result of the propagation of this “hate-for-the-karmis-and-whatever-they-do” corrosive mentality have only brought misery to our ranks. I have seen, and continue to see, ISKCON members who take these quotes to wild extremes. Some of them sound like more and more like David Koresh (a crazy Christian guy who hated the US goverment, the FBI, and the IRS). Many of these peculiar ISKCON members become scammers, or living from “hand-to-mouth,” cheating their fellow ISKCON members and their own families for money, the fiat money they hated so much in the first place.

Moreover, in this particular quote, you have given us, Prabhupada is not arguing that fiat money is sinful, or bad or evil. He is just arguing that when the gold standard for currency valuation was in place, you could exchange your fiat money back to gold. Now, you can’t do that anymore, and that’s a government decree, all over the world. And that constituted cheating. By the same token, when the governments decided to change the gold standard, you had the right – as a holder of fiat money – to go anywhere within the borders and exchange it – exactly as you would have done it using gold – for whatever commodity you were interested in. So, in real terms, you hadn’t lose your purchasing power. PEOPLE GET THIS INTO YOUR BRAINS: FIAT MONEY IS NOT WEALTH, IT IS JUST A MEANS OF ECONOMIC EXCHANGE.

By the way, for your information, several serious, renown macro-economists are, right now, rethinking the return to the gold standard. Maybe this piece of news will make those of us, who identify ourselves as conspiracy theorists, sleep better.

Will the return to the gold standard have any impact on preaching KC? No. Will it purify our hearts, so that our preaching can be more effective? NO. Will it decrease the numbers of scammers in ISKCON and outside of ISKCON? NO.

In the final analysis, we should use whatever is there in the world to push on KC. Whether we live in an economic system that uses fiat money, or gold, or silver, or pebbles, is utterly irrelevant.

Hare Krishna.

Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)
PS: This is really…. really my last post on this issue.

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 09.02.2007 @ 16:41

My final contribution to this article:

My Comments on Post No. 8 from Sita-Pati Prabhu

“I’m not sure how communism crept into the conversation…”

Because usually, the people who don’t like the current system usually foster socialistic ideas.

“Why not go point for point through the article and identify some specific issues within it?”

Because I do not have the time available for such a task, though I wish I could.

“Or better yet, if it’s so completely wrong in every respect, write another article which presents the viewpoint that you think we should be presenting in a public forum.”

Again, I lack the necessary time to address such an issue in a well-structured way, without having to resort to speculations.

My Comments on Post No. 9 from Kesava Krishna Prabhu

“Not too long ago, some of our leading devotees, some of whom may or may not still be with us, also made prophecies by citing the Bhavishya Purana and other similar Vedic texts. Whether it was the Y2k meltdown, or a 1985 world war and so on, however tantalizing the subject was, did not materialize into reality.”

I also remember the same phenomena happening here in Alachua, FL. Devotees were so paranoid of the Y2K speculation that even ‘armed themselves’ and were willing to shoot anybody coming to their property, including their fellow ISKCON members!!! My original point, in my first entry to this discussion was precisely to pinpoint this “doomsday, conspiracy-theory” flavor in the Article that triggered this whole discussion. We need to very intelligent when projecting our Krishna Consciousness to others. We are supposed to become a society of brahmanas; becoming weirdos (if I may use the word) won’t do the job.

“To use the authority of the Srimad Bhagavatam to to back up what appears to be a well organized money laundering enterprise, in this case, a banking cartel, must also be viewed with utmost care.”

Absolutely! We ought to scrutinize any speculation, from whoever, that purports to be based on Shastra.

“For instance, in the preamble to the Srimad Bhagavatam itself, Srila Prabhupada wrote of the trend towards a one world goverment. He did not disparage this momentum. Rather, as was the case 5,000 years ago he saw the positive side.”

Absolutely! Srila Prabhupada even used money issued by and from central banks around the world (paper currency, gold, whatever you want to call it) to push forward the KC Movement.

My Comments on Post No. 11 from Shiva Prabhu

“Yugala Kishor, I would agree that Nandanandana Das presented a very simplistic and even slightly misleading account of the modern world economic system, but at the same time I would disagree with you as well when you claim his arguments to be leftist conspiracy theory or being very far off the mark…. To claim that criticism/conspiracy theories about the world banking system is leftist in nature is simply in error.”

I didn’t know that the political right was into this stuff too. I have come across leftists, mostly, who proclaim and despise the evils of capitalism and the creation of fiat money is one of the issue they love to delve into. That’s why I originally wrote such statement.

“Eventually this system led to rampant corruption in all facets of modern western civilization. From banking, to corporations, to universities, government, etc, the enitre system is corrupt.”

You allude that the entire system is corrupt. But in reality, it is the whole cosmic manifestation is corrupted. Why stop at the economic system? The whole material world is corrupted. Corruption stems from the polluted heart of men, not from the institutions, or economic systems, which only mechanism of social actions. Change their hearts, and there will not more need to worry about elites ruling the world, or the evils of fiat money, etc… The fact that we see corruption in Western civilization doesn’t mean we shut our eyes and cover our ears, and lash out all kinds of wild speculations about it. We got to work with we have. Prabhupada always used the system (including fiat money), no matter how corrupted, in spreading the KC Movement. To follow in his footsteps we need to do the same.

My Comments on Post No. 13 from Kulapavana Prabhu

“Or are we merely struggling from day to day, unable to cover the cost of many critically needed programs?”

Excellent point prabhu! We have been fostering, in ISKCON, a culture of poverty. Somehow or other, we messed up things when we began to think and preach that poverty is a sign of advancement in KC. What a mistaken idea!!!

“Before we save the world from economic gloom and doom maybe we should first save our own movement.”

Another excellent point! Our KC Movements needs people who make a lot of money (ingrained in the vaisya creed) or who are intellectuals in all walks of life and fields of activity, or both. We got to get rid of the idea of scamming others, from the “hand-to-mouth” mentality, from fearing the evils of the system, when the system can be utilized for furthering KC.

“Most people are not impressed by big talk. They are impressed by big deeds.”

Rightly said! We need vaisyas and brahmanas (ksatriyas will come in due course), who are armed with purity and Shastra can change the world. Brahmanas provide the brain power, vaisyas provide the economic factor to any expansion of social ideas.

My Comments on Post No. 14 from Parivadi devi

“And at least one well-known ex-sannyasi was spoiled away while involving in money-speculation in a big style for the sake of yukta-vairagya for our ISKCON.”

I don’t know what you mean by money-speculation. We are talking about economics and how it can be utilized in spreading KC. Moreover, if an ex-sannyasi failed to understand how economics work, that doesn’t mean we all failed or that we are doomed to fail.

“Therefore we have to preach accordingly and not to imitate kali-methods in the name of yukta-vairagya.”

We should be interested in using the assets of the world to spread KC, as Srila Prabhupada did it, as Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura did it, and as Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura did it. And knowledge of economics is an asset that we, in ISKCON, have long neglected.

Thanks for all your comments. I gained further insights into these matters.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Yugala Kishor dasa (Gainesville, FL)

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 06.02.2007 @ 23:01

I do concur with Sngdasa prabhu. The important thing to bear in mind whenever we venture into a field of expertise, in the secular world, is to be fully, and accurately well informed.

Moreover, the notion of a “zeal attitude” towards presenting Krishna Consciousness is oftentimes not the mood that Srila Prabhupada portrayed in his preaching work. A preacher of KC ought to be expert in the KC philosophy and in any other philosophy we want to change. People are not much inspired by zeal. Religious zeal, specially semitic religious zeal, has created untold misery in human society throughout the centuries. Actually, they continue to inflict misery among themselves, to this very day.

I would request devotees to give up zeal and take a reasonable, intelligent, approach to presenting KC, whether it is to economists or any other experts in different fields.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Yugala Kishor dasa

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 04.02.2007 @ 20:34

Comments to Sita-pati’s post

Sita-pati: “Prabhu, thank you for publishing this elaboration. The function of brahmanas is to illuminate and clarify.”
Agreed. However, a brahmana ought to know what is he talking about. Not all brahmanas are conversant with political and economic science. In fact, all brahmanas I know (in ISKCON) are not fit to address issues involving both discourses. In my 30 years in ISKCON, I haven’t seen anyone addressing seriously these concerns. All we have gotten so far are leftist twists on politico-economic issues. We require way more in-depth analysis, than a mere tirade against the Western system of economics, which to our surprise, it has proved itself to work quite well. Communism is dead and pretty much gone.

Sita-pati: “This angle of vision definitely brings the current economic arrangements of the world in line with the analysis of Srila Prabhupada (Hare Krishna devi dasi’s Varnashrama-dharma compilation is a good place to start), and the version of Srimad Bhagavatam.”
I don’t see the validity of your claim. Srila Prabhupada, in the purport that Sri Nandanandana prabhu quoted, definitely touches on several economic issues. However, he doesn’t go into an in-depth analysis of any. The gist has been given to us, though. Gold influences and aggravates the degradation of men, in Kali-yuga. Yet Srila Prabhupada doesn’t assert that gold is “inherently” bad. What it is bad is the character (heart, consciousness, mind, intelligence) of the typical Kali-yuga man, who when he comes in contact with gold only deepens his misery in material existence, due to his lack of understanding that everything belongs to God.

Bear in mind, that the way Srila Prabhupada uses the word ‘gold’ also implies “riches, wealth, money, and prosperity.”

Sita-pati: “As Henry Ford said: “It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.””

So, what’s your point in quoting H. Ford? Money or currency is not wealth. It is only the representation thereof. And it is used to facilitate economic exchange only. It is obvious that wealth is found in real estate, in land, in eatables; not in paper currency. We don’t need the Shastra to figure it that out. Economists (the people you despise so much) and most moderately educated Joes on the street have figured it that out already.

Sita-pati: “So obviously people are not empowered with the correct sankhya to clearly see this in universities and economic textbooks. Notice that industrialists are able to manipulate the system to accumulate great wealth, whereas all your “economic experts” are simply paid lackeys. Those who know, do. Those who don’t, confuse.”

What does sankhya have to do with economic discourse? You might want to go back to check the definitions of both.
Do you mean to say that you are one of the few enlightened economics experts? That only you know what’s going on in the economic realm? Is this the only argument (in defense of your preconceived, leftist notions) you can come up with? Just another ad-hominem stand, without giving any room to reason and intellectual discourse?

Sita-pati: “I would suggest that if people have issues with specific points in this article then they address those points clearly and specifically. If you have another viewpoint entirely, then please write an article establishing yourself and your viewpoint.”
Agreed. However, we both should be aware that Dandavats is a public forum. Our views will be (and should be) subjected to scrutiny. If we want our ideas to remain private, then we should discuss in private, with friends. But, if we venture to put them for the whole world to know, then we should expect scrutiny and disagreements.

And if you really want to get into the “doomsday rasa”, check out my article from December: “What’s Really Going On?”

Thanks, but no thanks. I got more productive things to accomplish in life.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,

Yugala Kishor dasa

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 02.02.2007 @ 19:38



In my previous posted comment, I made the mistake of stating that you hadn’t quoted the Bhagavatam. I see that you did. I stand corrected on this issue. Moreover, I took the liberty to go to the Bhagavatam 1.17.39.

I still do not see the correlations that would substantiate your conclusion. All of my other points in my previous posted comment to your essay, do still stand.

Moreover, I took the liberty of analyzing Srila Prabhupada’s purport to the quoted verse. He uses the following economic terms or concepts:

Gold standard:

Gold reserves:



Currency Notes:

Artificial inflation of currency:

Prices of commodities:

Bad Money:

Good Money:

Prostitution of the State Economy:

Prostitution of Gold:

Influence of Gold in producing [economic] falsity:

Influence of Gold in producing [economic] prostitution:

[Economic] Falsity:

[Economic] Prostitution:

If you do have an education in economics, please elaborate upon those concepts used by Prabhupada. If you do not, I guess it is up to each of your readers to figure it out.

I can see that launching into a discussion on economics will be time consuming, yet edifying for all who are interested. It would require a lot of research and writing.

Yours in the service of Srila Prabhupada,
Yugala Kishor dasa.

Comment Posted By ykd108 On 01.02.2007 @ 20:56


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