{"id":11271,"date":"2013-02-15T04:29:05","date_gmt":"2013-02-15T03:29:05","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=11271"},"modified":"2013-02-15T04:29:05","modified_gmt":"2013-02-15T03:29:05","slug":"can-a-disciple-advance-only-as-much-as-ones-guru","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=11271","title":{"rendered":"Can A Disciple Advance Only As Much As One’s Guru?"},"content":{"rendered":"

By Kesava Krsna Dasa<\/strong><\/p>\n

A perception exists that our gurus and devotees usually function on the kanistha\/madhyama level of spiritual advancement, and that whoever joins Iskcon and takes initiation will only advance as much as they, not more. Is this true?<\/p>\n

After a few decades of Iskcon existence, the detailed science of Krishna consciousness has enabled us to gauge real spiritual advancement according to symptoms. Such symptoms have caused many of us to realise that to be \u2018advanced\u2019 is not always a quick or sudden occurrence, as we used to think.<\/p>\n

Several symptoms can give an impression of spiritual advancement when in fact they are not. Upon joining Iskcon, one may burst out of an introverted nature to become confidently extrovert. One may deploy great expertise that produces impressive results. One may also dazzle others with \u2018nectar\u2019 presentations of Krishna consciousness. We now know that without genuine addiction to chanting Hare Krishna, all of these shows or transformations are nice, but superficial.<\/p>\n

We all seek more advanced devotee association – to hear from them, and to follow, and to dedicate our lives in service to them – as disciples. Although we should have realistic assessments of true and false advancement, we may think that we will be lucky to attain the madhyama level, as seems to be the general assumption. One common quotation is cited:<\/p>\n

\u201cA neophyte Vaisnava or a Vaisnava situated on the intermediate platform can also accept disciples, but such disciples must be on the same platform, and it should be understood that they cannot advance very well toward the ultimate goal of life under his insufficient guidance. Therefore a disciple should be careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.\u201d (NOI Chapter 5 purport)<\/p>\n

This quotation can easily be misunderstood and taken as sure ticket to kanistha or madhyama advancement at most. There are two points that refute this notion. One is that if we stay only under \u201c\u2026his insufficient guidance,\u201d and ignore all other siksa guidance as provided by Iskcon, then the statement holds true. We are fortunate to have so much wonderful association besides the guru, if we are unsure about his \u2018advanced\u2019 status.<\/p>\n

Secondly, everyone who joins Iskcon was \u201c\u2026careful to accept an uttama-adhikari as a spiritual master.\u201d That uttama adhikari is our shared siksa guru Srila Prabhupada. Srila Prabhupada and the abundance of Iskcon devotee association easily overcomes whatever limitations may exist in one singular guru and his guidance, if deemed insufficient.<\/p>\n

The problem is that a disciple should not have any doubts about the advanced status of one\u2019s guru. Unfortunately, it sometimes happens that a guru does fall away. This is a situation where disciples become more advanced than the fallen guru is. Yet Srila Prabhupada remains there for us along with many other of his followers to help and guide.<\/p>\n

For those gurus who remain in good standing, the disciples certainly have to adore \u201cas good as God.\u201d Such high estimation should not cause any disciple to think less of their guru. Such gratefulness and eternal thanks for receiving the holy name and engagement in Krishna\u2019s service are unpayable debts.<\/p>\n

On this basis, faith in the process of Krishna consciousness is the key to advancement. If one remains faithful, then if whether one\u2019s guru falls or not, there is unlimited scope for spiritual advancement. In Iskcon terms, all disciples receive the holy name and service engagement, and how they perform with these is up to them. <\/p>\n

“So far designation is concerned, the spiritual master authorizes every one of his disciples. But it is up to the disciple to carry out the order, able to carry out or not. It is not that spiritual master is partial, he designates one and rejects other. He may do that. If the other is not qualified, he can do that. But actually his intention is not like that. He wants that each and every one of his disciple become as powerful as he is or more than that. That is his desire. Just like father wants every son to be as qualified or more qualified than the father. But it is up to the student or the son to raise himself to that standard.” (Srila Prabhupada to Atreya Rishi, June 29, 1972, San Diego) <\/p>\n

How disciples perform has little bearing on whether a guru is supposedly pure and powerful, or another, sincere but seemingly weak or less visible. A disciple of a \u2018weak\u2019 guru can advance more rapidly than another disciple of a \u2018powerful\u2019 guru, if the mindset is right. How far can such disciples advance?<\/p>\n

\u201cLord Caitanya said that His spiritual master told Him: \u201cIt is very good that You have attained such a perfectional stage of love of Godhead. Because of Your attainment, I am very much obliged to You.\u201d The father becomes more enlivened when he sees his son advance beyond himself. Similarly, the spiritual master takes more pleasure in seeing his disciple advance than in advancing himself. Thus Lord Caitanya\u2019s spiritual master blessed Him, telling Him to \u201cdance, sing, propagate this sa\u1e45k\u012brtana movement, and by instructing people about K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a, try to deliver them from nescience.\u201d (TLC Chapter 19)<\/p>\n

A golden rule is that no disciple will ever think he or she has surpassed their guru, or that will be the end of their progress. On the other hand, we cannot underestimate the power of Srila Prabhupada\u2019s siksa, the holy name, the abundance of devotee association, the cleansing power of service and so on, to surge us forward in progress. Neither can we limit Krishna who perfectly understands our unique Iskcon situation.<\/p>\n

One may have a kanistha guru but have multi-madhyama and uttama association benefits. Nonetheless, genuine disciples will always consider one\u2019s guru as more advanced than themselves. If disciples are concerned that their guru is serious but not very advanced, but still keeps faith in the guru\u2019s words and encouragement in chanting and service – that is pleasing to Krishna.<\/p>\n

\u201cLord Caitanya further informed Prak\u0101\u015b\u0101nanda Sarasvat\u012b: \u201cBecause I have full faith in My spiritual master\u2019s words, I am always engaged in chanting Hare K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a, Hare K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a, K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a, Hare Hare\/ Hare R\u0101ma, Hare R\u0101ma, R\u0101ma R\u0101ma, Hare Hare.<\/p>\n

It appears from the talks of Lord Caitanya that a person who cannot keep his faith in the words of the spiritual master and who acts independently cannot attain the desired success in chanting Hare K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a.<\/p>\n

Lord Caitanya firmly believed in the statements of His spiritual master, and He never neglected the instructions of His spiritual master by stopping His sa\u1e45k\u012brtana movement. Thus the transcendental potency of the holy name encouraged Him more and more in chanting Hare K\u1e5b\u1e63\u1e47a, the mah\u0101-mantra.\u201d (TLC chapter 19)<\/p>\n

It may cause some doubts in disciples if they learn that the guru is still \u201cwork in progress.\u201d But then, even greatly advanced uttama devotees always consider themselves \u201cwork in progress.\u201d If Bhakti is an unlimited ocean of possibility and experience, it is a healthy sign if any devotee constantly wishes for more progress. But in making advancement, Srila Prabhupada explains:<\/p>\n

Prabhup\u0101da: That\u2019s all right, but he remains a disciple of his guru. He will never say that \u201cNow I have become guru, so I don\u2019t care for my guru.\u201d He will never say. Just like I am doing, but I am worshiping my guru still. So I remain subordinate to my guru, always. Even though I have become guru, still I am subordinate to my guru. (December 22, 1976, Poona)<\/p>\n

Prabhup\u0101da: But they will never say that they have become equal to me. \u201cI have advanced to be my guru.\u201d Never say. Just like this boy, he is offering obeisances. He may be expert in preaching more than me, but he knows that \u201cI am subordinate.\u201d Otherwise how he shall offer obeisances? He can think, \u201cOh, now I am so learned. I am so advanced. Why shall I accept him as superior?\u201d No. That continues. Even after my death, after my disappearance, he will offer obeisances to my picture. (December 22, 1976, Poona – Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra)<\/p>\n

The beauty of Iskcon and Krishna consciousness can be experienced simply by having faith in the words of guru. From there, Krishna and His holy name, his devotees and service power will take care of the rest. On this score, there is no limit to our spiritual progress towards \u201cLove of Godhead,\u201d except for our own limited perceptions.<\/p>\n

Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa \u2013 GRS<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

By Kesava Krsna Dasa<\/strong><\/p>\n

\nA perception exists that our gurus and devotees usually function on the kanistha\/madhyama level of spiritual advancement, and that whoever joins Iskcon and takes initiation will only advance as much as they, not more. Is this true?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2,32],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-11271","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-articles","category-kesava-krsna-dasa"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11271","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=11271"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/11271\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=11271"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=11271"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=11271"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}