{"id":13080,"date":"2014-09-07T12:12:12","date_gmt":"2014-09-07T12:12:12","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=12929"},"modified":"2014-10-06T00:20:28","modified_gmt":"2014-10-06T00:20:28","slug":"theodicy-on-fallen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=13080","title":{"rendered":"Theodicy on Fallen"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/dandavats.com\/wp-content\/uploads4\/2014-09-07_14-09-12.jpg\" alt=\"\"  width=\"600\" \/><\/p>\n<p><strong>By Patita Pavana das<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u201cIf there is a King there must be subjects or small spirit souls\u201d, Srila Prabhupada writes. The King\u2019s Queen and Her entourage can be compared with the svarupa-sakti tattva (His own energy category). They are not anu(=small)-atma.<br \/>\nThe svarupa-sakti is also serving but this is love between equals. The big- visnu\/svarupa-sakti-tattvas- can also do the functions of servants, they do &#8211; gopis do menial services, also Krishna &#8216;s laxmis sweep the palaces  according to SB 10.83.11 Sri Kalindi says :&#8221; Now I am engaged as a sweeper in His palace&#8221;. In Vilapa Kusumanjali verse 18-19, Tulasi Manjari (Srila Raghunatha dasa Goswami) prays to Srimati Radharani: \u201c O My Goddess! When may I joyfully rinse Your latrine (= toilet) with sweetly scented water, lovingly sweep it with my loosened hair and make it fragrant with nice incense.\u201d  \u201cWhen will I carefully wash Your two lotus feet with camphor-scented water and then dry them with my hair.\u201d But they don&#8217;t fall.<br \/>\nThese will never fall for the bahiranga (external energy) tattva. Nor will the King\/God\/Visnu-tattva come down to enjoy the inferior energy. Just like the King and the Queen of this material world will never go to the jail to live in concrete and eat dry bread with spiders.<br \/>\n\u201cIf there were no one to control, there would be no meaning to the conception of the supreme controller (isvara), just as there is no meaning to a king without his subjects. If all the subjects became king, there would be no distinction between the king and an ordinary citizen.. Someone may argue, \u201cWhy is there a need to create the spiritual sparks?\u201d The answer can be given in this way: Since the Absolute Personality of Godhead is omnipotent, He has both unlimited and limited potencies. This is the meaning of omnipotent. To be omnipotent, He must have not only unlimited potencies but limited potencies also. Thus to exhibit His omnipotency He displays both. The living entities are endowed with limited potency although they are part of the Lord.. If the Personality of Godhead did not possess both limited and unlimited energies, He could not be called omnipotent. Anor aniyan mahato mahiyan: \u201cThe Lord is smaller than the smallest and greater than the greatest.\u201d He is smaller than the smallest in the form of the living entities and greater than the greatest in His form of Krsna.\u201d  (Caitanya Caritamrta Adi 7.116 p)<\/p>\n<p>There must be the little ones, as &#8221;real&#8221; servants; the saktis can also do services, but they are not really servants\/subordinates\/ housemaids\/footman. Thus there must be a second energy \u2013 tatastha sakti, to serve as subjects. Tatastha means intermediary or marginal; it can go from the spiritual (antaranga, svarupa) to the material energy (bahiranga or bhinna, separated) and back. These are actually servants and subordinates, being small particles of spirit. They are little ones and therefore with teeny knowledge sometimes revolt.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cCaitanya Mahaprabhu teaches, jivera svarupa haya nitya-krishna-dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Our main business is to serve Krishna. In Vrindavana, in Goloka Vrindavana, somebody&#8217;s serving Krishna as His friend, cowherd boy. Somebody&#8217;s serving Krishna as gopi, as lover. Somebody&#8217;s serving Krishna as father and mother, Mother Yasoda, Nanda Maharaja. Somebody&#8217;s Krishna&#8217;s friend as servant, as tree, as water, as flower, as land, as cow&#8217;s, as calf. So many ways. This is our business. But somehow or other we did not like to serve Krishna. Therefore we have been put into the service of maya in three modes of nature. Just like criminal. A criminal does not like to obey the laws of the state; therefore a criminal is put into the prison house and he&#8217;s forced to abide by the law of the state. The state laws are there\u2014either outside the prison house or inside the prison house. But one who does not obey ordinarily outside the jail the orders or the laws of the state is put into the prison house. But he cannot avoid the laws of the state. That is not possible. Because a citizen means he must abide by the laws of the state.<br \/>\nSimilarly, we are part and parcel of Krishna, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah [Bg. 15.7]. I have explained many times. So as soon as we deny to render service to Krishna, immediately the maya is there, captures, &#8220;All right. You come here. You serve me.&#8221; (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.25.27)<\/p>\n<p>For the anu\u2013atmas there is the prison house of the material world, the third energy, which is a necessary evil part of a perfect system. Theocracy is still perfect because only a few fall.<\/p>\n<p>\u201c&#8230;and we small quantity, we misused our independence. We wanted to enjoy separately. Therefore we are conditioned.<br \/>\n\u2026 We are only simple few, this material world. Just like I have several times told you that the prison house. The population of prison house is nothing in comparison to the whole population. What is there? Suppose in New York there is a prison house. Oh, what may be the number? A few thousand maybe. But here, millions. Similarly, the liberated souls are millions; we are only few thousands, or hundreds. .. We are thinking this universe is very great. It is nothing in comparison to the whole creation of the Lord. You are seeing only universe, but there are millions of universes like this. \u2026This is only a part of Krishna&#8217;s creation. One devotee of Lord Caitanya, requested, &#8220;My dear Lord, You have come to deliver all the fallen souls. You please take all the conditioned souls of this universe, and if You think they are not competent, they are sinful, You can give me all the sin to me. I shall suffer for them, but You kindly take.&#8221; So this is the desire of a pure devotee, that &#8220;All may go with Krishna. Let them become liberated. I shall suffer all their&#8230;&#8221; Now, Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied that &#8220;Suppose I keep your request. I take these, all the living entities of this universe. Do you think, is there any loss of this material world? It is just like a one mustard seed in the bag of mustard seeds.&#8221; So this universe is just like one mustard seed in one big bag of mustard seeds. Can you count how many mustard seeds are there in a big bag? So the idea was that Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied that &#8220;Even this universe is delivered fully, oh, there is a big bag of mustard seeds. It is only one grain.&#8221; There are so many conditioned souls, and these conditioned souls are only insignificant in comparison to the liberated souls. Just imagine what is the quantity of liberated souls.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>(Lecture on CC Adi-lila 7.108, February 18, 1967)<\/p>\n<p>He says: \u201cThe population of prison house is *nothing* in comparison to the whole population.\u2019\u2019<\/p>\n<p>\u201cDevotee: The main argument among the philosophers, the atheistic philosophers, is that &#8220;God could not exist because if God existed, if God were good, then why would we be suffering? God would stop our suffering.&#8221;<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Because you are criminal.<br \/>\nDevotee(2): Right. If your father&#8217;s good&#8230;<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Eh? No, it is criminal. That is&#8230; You see that there are so many persons in the state. Not all of them are suffering in the prison house. Only the criminals. So that is the proof that you are a criminal.<br \/>\nDevotee: God could have&#8230; God could have created me in such a way that I would never have fallen down.<br \/>\nPrabhupada: He has created, but He has given you independence&#8230;<br \/>\nDevotee: Why has He given us that independence if in that independence we&#8230;?<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Then you are not living being. You are dull stone. God does not want that you remain a stone.<br \/>\nDevotee(2): &#8220;Free will&#8221; means living being.\u201d (Morning Walk, February 5, 1976, Mayapur)<\/p>\n<p>Devotee: \u201cIf God were actually all, all-good and all-perfect, then when He created us, we would also be all-good&#8230;\u201d<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Yes. But you are contaminated. You are all-good. Because you are part and parcel of God, you cannot be bad.<br \/>\nDevotee: Well, they say that \u201cEven, even if I have the potential&#8230; Even to say that I have&#8230;\u201d<br \/>\nPrabhupada: You have got the potential. That\u2019s it.<br \/>\nDevotee: If I\u2019m originally in the spiritual world, even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation.<br \/>\nPrabhupada: No, potential does not [mean] fall down. Just like a child has got the potency to pass the M.A. examination. So he has to be educated. If you don\u2019t educate him, he\u2019ll remain a foolish child. So we are educating to develop that potentiality.<br \/>\nnitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya<br \/>\nsravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya<br \/>\nThat potentiality is eternal. God is eternal. We are eternal. Our relationship, eternal. Everything is eternal. But because we are small, minute fragments, sometimes we fall down.<br \/>\nDevotee: They say, \u201cGod should have, God should have created us so that we&#8230;\u201d<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Why you should dictate God? God has created perfectly. He has given you independence. You fall down. It is your fault. God has made you perfect, given you independence. But if you misuse your independence, you fall down. Just like government gives everyone opportunity. Why do you become criminal and go to the jail? That is your fault.<br \/>\nDevotee: They say that God should have created us so that we&#8230;<br \/>\nPrabhupada: Why \u201cShould have created\u201d? He has created already perfect. Because you are perfect, therefore you have got the independence to misuse. You are not a dead stone. That is perfection. Ye yatha mam prapadyante. You can go anywhere, sarva-ga. You can go to the Vaikuntha. Yanti deva-vrata devan. You can go to the higher planets. You can go to the hell. When you go to the hell, it is your choice. God has given you all perfection. Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate, everything is complete, perfect, and because you are perfect, you have got the independence. But misusing that independence, you are imperfect. Again, reviving\u2026. you can become perfect, although you are imperfect now. Krsna has made you perfect. (Conversation, Los Angeles, December 6, 1973)<\/p>\n<p>Atheists argue that even the potential to fall down is an imperfection in the creation.<br \/>\nSrila Prabhupada answers that the soul chooses for the prison. Thus this monarchical structure of the Absolute Truth is the best possible world. And this deficiency that there must be a prison house is \u201cinsignificant, nothing\u201d or non-existent. So says Srila Prabhupada.<br \/>\nFrom our perspective, the millions of material universes and all the suffering souls are so great but in reality or infinity it is a little point. \u201cGeometrically, the definition of a point is given, &#8220;point has no length, no breadth\u201d (zero volume-ed.) because a point cannot be measured by any human instrument. So, we set aside, dismiss: &#8220;Oh, there is no, nothing.\u201d<br \/>\n(Sri Caitanya-caritamrita, Madhya-lila 20.152-154, New York, December 5, 1966)<br \/>\nThis material world, compared to a cloud in the spiritual sky, is not even a spot on the moon which we are also to overlook.<\/p>\n<p>A tiny part and parcel may object \u201cWhy \u201cI\u201d am in the tatastha category and not in the svarupa sakti or saktiman Visnu-tattva category.\u201d If one would be in one of that categories (or tattvas) or one could swap places with svarupa-sakti or saktiman then the other could make that complaint. Someone has to take the tatastha-tattva position and someone in that tattva will fall. Still, the same holds; there is no error. All is all-perfect. Could one conceive another structure? Theoretically only; one with only mechanical, machine-like automatons or alternatively infinite homogeneous monotony both with no Krishna, love, freedom and bliss.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cPrabhupada: Unless you have got independence, what is your life? Then you are dead stone. You want to become a dead stone? That is not Krishna&#8217;s concern. Krishna does not give such perfection, that you become a dead stone.\u201d (Morning Walk March 14, 1976, Mayapur)<\/p>\n<p>Thus this purport (CC Adi 7.116) explains the only possible, perfect and necessarily existent picture of reality.<br \/>\nThis explains why we are and who we are. And why infinity is structured as an infinite cosmic monarchy.<br \/>\nHistory has also proven practically that Ramaraja, God or God\u2019s devotee ruling (theocracy) is the best.<br \/>\nFor beginners, ontologically, the material world is the prison house. The material body is the prison cell of the spiritual soul. There are many prison cells for many spirit souls. But just as in a state, where there is a prison house, there is also a free world. Nowhere there is only a prison house. Thus because we are spirit souls imprisoned in the material body there must be a free world. Beyond the prison house of the domain of matter there must be the free world-paradise and the King and the Queen. Alternatively, there must be a King\/God because we are subjected to karma, kala (time), klesa (miseries), and guna (modes of nature). In Skanda Purana, Mahesa Khanda 1.2.45.101 a brahmana  answered the challenge of an atheist thus, \u201cCan there be subjects without a King?\u201d<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p><img decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/dandavats.com\/wp-content\/uploads4\/2014-09-07_14-10-29.jpg\" alt=\"Hare Krishna\"\/><strong>By Patita Pavana das<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u201cIf there were no one to control, there would be no meaning to the conception of the supreme controller (isvara), just as there is no meaning to a king without his subjects. If all the subjects became king, there would be no distinction between the king and an ordinary citizen.. Someone may argue, \u201cWhy is there a need to create the spiritual sparks?\u201d The answer can be given in this way: Since the Absolute Personality of Godhead is omnipotent, He has both unlimited and limited potencies. This is the meaning of omnipotent. To be omnipotent, He must have not only unlimited potencies but limited potencies also. Thus to exhibit His omnipotency He displays both. The living entities are endowed with limited potency although they are part of the Lord.. If the Personality of Godhead did not possess both limited and unlimited energies, He could not be called omnipotent. <!--more--><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-13080","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-articles"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13080","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=13080"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13080\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":13210,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13080\/revisions\/13210"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=13080"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=13080"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=13080"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}