![\"\"](\"https:\/\/lh3.googleusercontent.com\/-DuXP0X95uFA\/V2uxfeml52I\/AAAAAAAAcNY\/kxaRcinRbUs\/s0\/2016-06-23_11-52-54.jpg\")
<\/p>\n<\/p>\n
From Back to Godhead<\/p>\n
By Mukunda Goswami<\/strong><\/p>\n The swami arrived in Los Angeles the day before the show and spent the afternoon recuperating from the flight in his apartment on Saturn Street. The following night, we headed down to the studios for our first television appearance. March met us at the door and led us through a warren of corridors to a small room.<\/p>\n \u201cWe\u2019re going to start with a warm-up interview so you get used to how the show is run.\u201d She opened the door to a larger room and motioned for us to go in.<\/p>\n There were already two other men sitting at a table inside the room.<\/p>\n \u201cThis is Dr. Daniel Morgan,\u201d March said, indicating the older man. \u201cHe\u2019s the Campus Crusade for Christ leader here in LA. And this is one of his students, Joseph Shaw. They\u2019ll be going on the show with you.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cOn the show with us?\u201d I thought. No one had said anything to me about that. As the swami and I shook hands with them and introduced ourselves, I realized this wasn\u2019t going to be a simple, amiable interview with Les Crane. It was set up to be a televised confrontation between opposing theological parties. I hadn\u2019t bargained for this.<\/p>\n Enter Les Crane, suave, sophisticated and handsome. He had wavy brown hair, and a reddish brown tan. Over his dark-brown turtleneck he wore a gold pendant, a Hindu Om sign cast in Sanskrit letters. This glistening accoutrement immediately caught my attention and brought some familiarity into the strange environment. Maybe Crane would be on our side in this gladiatorial event.<\/p>\n After formally introducing all of us, the debonair host spent a few minutes with the Christian evangelists asking them questions like \u201cWhat university do you work with, where do you live, what\u2019s your goal?\u201d Then he pulled up a chair opposite the swami and me. \u201cI was born in Calcutta and came to this country in 1965,\u201d the swami replied.<\/p>\n \u201cYou have followers in this country?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cWe have our temples in New York, San Francisco, and now Los Angeles.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cSo what is the chant?\u201d Crane asked. He was being very cordial to us; charisma oozed from his every pore.<\/p>\n Instead of giving a verbal reply, the swami pulled out his karatalas and, smiling all the while, began to sing the Hare Krishna mantra. I was surprised, but Crane appeared charmed and fascinated by this spontaneous performance of the mantra. He nodded his head in time to the tempo; grinning, he looked around the room and, still grinning, he glanced at the other television staff as if to affirm just how entertaining this Swami was. Crane had been buoyant from the start, but the chanting seemed to make him even more favorable.<\/p>\n The swami put down his karatalas after a few minutes and Crane beamed at him.<\/p>\n \u201cThat was really something,\u201d he said. \u201cWe\u2019re on in fifteen minutes. Follow me into the studio.\u201d<\/p>\n Inside the studio, the lights were bright and the three hundred tiered audience seats already full of chattering spectators, including twenty of the new Los Angeles devotees for whom March had managed to get seats. Crane seated the swami and me in swivel chairs next to the evangelists, Dr. Morgan and Joseph, on a round stage; he then busied himself with the cameramen and technicians. The swami and I sat silently as the flurry went on around us. I felt nervous, but the swami seemed composed.<\/p>\n As he stood, Les Crane shuffled a stack of papers around. \u201cIt\u2019s one minute till we\u2019re taping,\u201d he said. He walked over to us and said, \u201cWhen you see a red light on the camera, it\u2019ll be filming you.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cOK, let\u2019s get started,\u201d Crane said with a grin to the cameramen. The head technician nodded, and the red lights came on.<\/p>\n \u201cWelcome to The Les Crane Show,\u201d Crane said silkily. \u201cI\u2019m your host, Les Crane.\u201d A blue neon light flashed the word \u201cAPPLAUSE\u201d; the audience did. \u201cTonight I have with me Swami Bhaktivedanta, the leader of the Hare Krishnas, a new spiritual movement which he brought to the United States from India about three years ago. Also with us is Dr. Daniel Morgan, the leader of Campus Crusade for Christ here in LA. Daniel and the swami have also brought along their students, Michael and Joseph.\u201d<\/p>\n As the audience clapped again, Crane stood and walked across the stage toward us, deftly stepping over the cord of the microphone he was carrying.<\/p>\n \u201cMichael, why did you decide to join the Hare Krishna movement?\u201d he asked me.<\/p>\n I was tense enough already without being the first to speak! I opened my mouth without knowing what to say.<\/p>\n \u201cI offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who is very dear unto Lord Krishna, having taken shelter unto the Supreme Lord.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cAnd what is the purpose of that prayer?\u201d Crane asked me.<\/p>\n I knew my opening was unconventional, so I tried to recover my profile in front of the audience. \u201cThis is something that we all say before speaking,\u201d I explained. \u201cIt\u2019s like a way of paying respect to your teacher and asking his blessing to speak.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cOK, that\u2019s nice,\u201d Crane said. \u201cSo, why did you join the Hare Krishnas?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cI read some of the books the swami brought over from India, and they convinced me.\u201d I paused, getting ready to talk about the swami\u2019s lectures, but Crane had already moved on.<\/p>\n \u201cWhat was your religion before?\u201d he asked.<\/p>\n \u201cI was brought up as a conservative Jew, but when I was seventeen, I\u2019d become an agnostic.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cAnd what do you do?\u201d Crane asked.<\/p>\n \u201cWell, I\u2019m a musician and I have been doing some importing for the swami,\u201d I said. \u201cI\u2019m trying to help out as much as I can so the swami\u2019s movement can grow and be spread around the world.\u201d<\/p>\n Crane walked toward the swami, once again adroitly avoiding the wires that writhed around the stage like reeds waiting to drag him down.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd is the movement growing?\u201d he asked the swami.<\/p>\n \u201cOh, yes,\u201d the swami answered. \u201cI have many students now. They are chanting and feeling very happy.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cWhat is your outlook on life?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cKrishna consciousness means that every living being is part and parcel of Krishna,\u201d the swami said. He spoke so confidently, I thought, completely different to the way I came across.<\/p>\n \u201cWhat does that mean, I mean, being \u2018part and parcel,\u2019 and who is Krishna?\u201d Crane asked.<\/p>\n \u201cKrishna is God,\u201d the swami answered. \u201cHe has got many expansions. They are called personal expansions and separated expansions. So we are separated expansion, we are living entities, individuals, but we are part of the Lord. We are very intimately connected with Krishna, but somehow or other we are separated by connection with material nature. Krishna is God.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cIs there a devil?\u201d Crane asked.<\/p>\n \u201cPractically we have forgotten that we are part and parcel of God. That happens to everyone. Then we become demonic.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cSo anyone can be the devil?\u201d Crane looked a little confused.<\/p>\n \u201cThis Krishna consciousness movement means we are trying to realize original consciousness; that we belong to Krishna. In that way we become purified and our devilish tendencies become I mean to say swallowed up.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cWhen we were children, we were happy, right?\u201d Crane said.<\/p>\n \u201cThe original consciousness is Krishna consciousness, not child consciousness,\u201d the swami answered. \u201cJust like a man born in a wealthy family, he is rich man. But he sometimes forgets his own home, so sometimes he becomes a hippy. So our Vedic literature is meant for reviving our original consciousness.\u201d<\/p>\n Crane nodded at the swami and then redirected his attention toward the Christian evangelists.<\/p>\n \u201cSo, Dr. Morgan, what does the Campus Crusade for Christ say about original sin?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cEveryone has to rid themselves of sin,\u201d the older slightly portly man said, pushing his glasses up on his nose. \u201cAlcohol and narcotics are a problem for many college students.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cHow would you correct these problems?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cBiblical study and reading is recommended for every college student,\u201d Dr. Morgan said. \u201cWe have classrooms in schools all over the country, places where students can study and pray together. And sing.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cWow! That\u2019s a lot of classrooms,\u201d Crane said. The audience laughed. \u201cWhat do you do?\u201d he asked the young evangelist, Joseph.<\/p>\n \u201cI study mathematics at Stanford,\u201d Joseph answered.<\/p>\n \u201cAnd you\u2019re the leader of the Campus Crusade for Christ at Stanford?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cThat\u2019s right. We have about twenty to fifty people in our group at Stanford, mostly freshmen. We meet three times a week.\u201d<\/p>\n Crane walked over to the swami and, thrusting a microphone at him, asked, \u201cDo you think Jesus Christ can save souls?\u201d \u201cOh, yes, certainly,\u201d the swami answered. \u201cWhy not? He is son of God, isn\u2019t it?\u201d Walking quickly back to Dr. Morgan, Crane asked, \u201cDo you think people can be saved by Krishna consciousness?\u201d \u201cJesus Christ walked a very narrow path,\u201d he answered. \u201cHe said we have to come to the Father through him.\u201d \u201cAre you saying then that people who take the swami\u2019s religious route can\u2019t be saved?\u201d Crane persisted. The CCC leader squirmed and frowned. \u201cNo, I didn\u2019t say that,\u201d he said. \u201cIt\u2019s just that we have a very narrow path to walk.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cDo you think someone can get to heaven by following scripture like theirs?\u201d he asked. \u201cThe Bahagavad-gita?\u201d He turned and looked over his shoulder at the swami. \u201cDid I say that right?\u201d<\/p>\n The swami smiled and moved his head as if to say \u201cNot really, but it\u2019s not important.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cEverybody who comes to our prayer meetings feels the presence of Christ and becomes transformed,\u201d the young Christian said. \u201cI can vouch for that. I\u2019ve been there.\u201d They were avoiding a direct answer to the question.<\/p>\n Crane spun around and, still gracefully wielding his microphone, bounced over to the swami.<\/p>\n \u201cDo you think anyone can go to heaven through the Bible?\u201d he asked.<\/p>\n \u201cYes,\u201d the swami answered immediately. \u201cAny word of God.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cThe Bible?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cYes.\u201d<\/p>\n The blue neon light above us came on: \u201cFIVE SECONDS TO COMMERCIAL.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cWe\u2019ll be right back with the swami and the Crusade for Christ,\u201d Crane said. \u201cDon\u2019t go away.\u201d<\/p>\n It seemed like no time since the start of the program, but when I looked at my watch I saw that nearly fifteen minutes had already elapsed since the beginning of the interview. The devotees in the audience were talking excitedly among themselves and smiling at us.<\/p>\n \u201cYour answers were very good,\u201d I said to the swami. \u201cI think he likes you.\u201d The swami looked ahead and nodded. \u201cLet us see,\u201d he said. \u201cMillions of people will see this show.\u201d I was making small talk.<\/p>\n \u201cYes,\u201d he said. He opened his eyes slightly wider on hearing this but continued to sit silently watching the audience, most of which stared back.<\/p>\n The red camera lights flashed again and we were back on air. After a brief re-introduction, Crane continued where he had left off. \u201cSo you approve of the Bible, then?\u201d he asked the swami. The swami nodded. \u201cOf course.\u201d<\/p>\n The host quickly turned and walked up close to Dr. Morgan, shoving the microphone in his face. \u201cBut you don\u2019t approve of the Bahagavad-gita. You wouldn\u2019t recommend it as the word of God?\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cNo, I wouldn\u2019t,\u201d he said slowly and deliberately. He looked uncomfortable, trapped and unable to handle the situation.<\/p>\n Crane turned to the cameras. \u201cIt\u2019s time for our studio audience to ask questions.\u201d A technician in plimsolls and a blue shirt mounted the stage and pointed a microphone on a long, thin stick at the audience. It had a three-foot-long barrel that made it look like a rifle.<\/p>\n A man raised his hand. Crane said, \u201cYes. Stand up please.\u201d<\/p>\n The man stood. He wore a white broad-brimmed ten-gallon hat and long black braids that descended over his ears through two holes in the hat\u2019s brim. He pointed angrily at the Christian man.<\/p>\n \u201cIf your religion is so good, why did you slaughter a million of my people?\u201d he shouted, looking defiant with his arms folded across his chest.<\/p>\n The CCC leader fidgeted and finally said, \u201cI think you\u2019re mistaking US Union Army soldiers for Christians. It wasn\u2019t like that. I think you have gotten some of your facts wrong.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cI know they were Christians,\u201d the man said. \u201cYou can\u2019t say they weren\u2019t. And a lot of people died. A lot of women and children thousands.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019m sorry, but they weren\u2019t followers of the Gospel,\u201d he insisted.<\/p>\n \u201cThat\u2019s your apology?\u201d the American Indian scoffed.<\/p>\n \u201cPlease sit down and let someone else ask a question,\u201d Crane said, surprised at the man\u2019s outburst.<\/p>\n A lady in a patterned green dress raised her hand.<\/p>\n \u201cPlease stand up, ma\u2019am,\u201d Crane requested.<\/p>\n \u201cI want to know, is Krishna God to the swami?\u201d she asked.<\/p>\n \u201cHe is our name for God. God has many names. Krishna is one of the many names of God. Chief name.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cThank you,\u201d she said, and sat down.<\/p>\n A fat, red-faced man raised his hand. He was wearing jeans and a Hawaiian shirt.<\/p>\n \u201cI want to ask the swami if this is yoga,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n \u201cThis is bhakti-yoga,\u201d the swami answered. Krishna says yoginam api sarvesah \u2018the best yoga is to meditate on Me.\u2019 This is meditation on the personality of God. You can do this anywhere.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cOK,\u201d Crane said. \u201cThat\u2019s all the time we have tonight. Thank you to all our guests for being on the show with us tonight.\u201d<\/p>\n Mukunda Goswami, one of the first devotees to be initiated by Srila Prabhupada in 1966, pioneered the preaching in England. Currently, he serves as an initiating spiritual master within ISKCON.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" The swami arrived in Los Angeles the day before the show and spent the afternoon recuperating from the flight in his apartment on Saturn Street. The following night, we headed down to the studios for our first television appearance. March met us at the door and led us through a warren of corridors to a small room. \u201cWe\u2019re going to start with a warm-up interview so you get used to how the show is run.\u201d She opened the door to a larger room and motioned for us to go in. There were already two other men sitting at a table inside the room. \u201cThis is Dr. Daniel Morgan,\u201d March said, indicating the older man. \u201cHe\u2019s the Campus Crusade for Christ leader here in LA. And this is one of his students, Joseph Shaw. They\u2019ll be going on the show with you.\u201d \u201cOn the show with us?\u201d I thought. No one had said anything to me about that. As the swami and I shook hands with them and introduced ourselves, I realized this wasn\u2019t going to be a simple, amiable interview with Les Crane. It was set up to be a televised confrontation between opposing theological parties. I hadn\u2019t bargained for this.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-28788","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-articles"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28788","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=28788"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28788\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":28794,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/28788\/revisions\/28794"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=28788"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=28788"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=28788"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
\n\u201cSo, you are from India?\u201d he asked the swami.<\/p>\n![\"Hare](\"https:\/\/lh3.googleusercontent.com\/-MgFvFhoEEhI\/V2ux1ao-6zI\/AAAAAAAAcNg\/K3RAt7bdYxs\/s0\/2016-06-23_11-54-29.jpg\")
By Mukunda Goswami<\/strong><\/p>\n