{"id":3094,"date":"2007-03-14T17:48:45","date_gmt":"2007-03-14T16:48:45","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=3094"},"modified":"2007-03-14T20:43:40","modified_gmt":"2007-03-14T19:43:40","slug":"response-to-the-ongoing-debate","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/?p=3094","title":{"rendered":"Response to the ongoing debate"},"content":{"rendered":"

By Visakha Priya dasi<\/strong><\/p>\n

Hare Krsna.<\/p>\n

Regarding the statement, \u201cKrsna consciousness is not only for temple devotees and strict brahmanas. It is for everyone at all levels<\/a>,\u201d I would like to offer the following reflections for your consideration:<\/p>\n

Although everyone is eligible for bhakti, not everyone is eligible for initiation, especially brahminical initiation. Srila Prabhupada\u2019s first goal was to create a society of brahmanas, and brahmanas do not indulge in illicit sex. In one of your comments<\/a> you wrote: \u201cThe Eighth and Ninth Chapters, Second Part of the Kama Shastra describes such people [homosexuals] in full detail, both masculine and feminine types, and points out how they served society as dancers, barbers, hairstylists, flower-sellers, masseurs, prostitutes, and so on. Devotees would do well to consider these models and learn from them.\u201d <\/p>\n

The first thing we seem to learn from this description of homosexuals in Vedic times is that they were sudras. Sudras, of course, are not required to follow the rules and regulations meant for the brahmanas. As explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam, Eleventh Canto, Chapter Twenty-one, Text 11, \u201cThe same activities that would degrade an elevated person do not cause falldown for those who are already fallen. Indeed, one who is lying on the ground cannot possibly fall further. The material association that is dictated by one’s own nature is considered a good quality.\u201d <\/p>\n

In the purport to this text, H. H. Hrdayananda dasa Goswami and his team comment as follows:<\/p>\n

\u201cThe Lord here further describes the ambiguity in ascertaining material piety and sin. Although intimate association with women is most abominable for a renounced sannyasi, the same association is pious for a householder, who is ordered by Vedic injunction to approach his wife at the suitable time for procreation. Similarly, a brahmana who drinks liquor is considered to be committing a most abominable act, whereas a sudra, a low-class man, who can moderate his drinking is considered to be self-controlled. Piety and sin on the material level are thus relative considerations. Any member of society, however, who receives diksa, initiation into the chanting of the Lord’s holy names, must strictly obey the four regulative principles: no eating of meat, fish or eggs, no illicit sex, no intoxication and no gambling. A spiritually initiated person neglecting these principles will certainly fall from his elevated position of liberation.\u201d<\/p>\n

A person in a fallen position (as most of us were at the time of taking up the process of Krsna consciousness) should recognize his or her fallen position, not try to justify it. Certainly, branding, stoning, or burning at stake persons who do not fit within the social system denotes a very primitive and fallen mentality, and the Vedic system, being most advanced and sophisticated, had a humane way to deal with everyone. But brahmanas and sudras didn\u2019t mix, because they were governed by different modes of natures. Sudras served the higher classes, were nicely fed and clothed, but they had no say in higher subject matters. Someone might say that in Kali-yuga everyone is a sudra, but even though we were born as sudras, we have been given the opportunity to rise to a higher status of existence through the process of Vaisnava diksa. It is up to everyone to decide whether they want to take it up or not, but if we do decide to take up the process of diksa, we have to endeavor strenuously to maintain ourselves on that platform. And we should take help from those who are successful in maintaining their vows, not from those who are as hopelessly enmeshed in sinful activities as we are. And of course, this doesn\u2019t apply only to homosexuals but to all of us.<\/p>\n

\u201cKrsna consciousness is not only for temple devotees and strict brahmanas. It is for everyone at all levels.\u201d<\/p>\n

Agreed. But Srila Prabhupada has commented (I don\u2019t have the reference but have heard it from my spiritual master), \u201cKrsna consciousness is ninety-five percent association.\u201d One might say, \u201cAssociation? Surely, chanting one\u2019s rounds is more important than association!\u201d But Srila Prabhupada further commented that without proper association you will not be able to maintain the determination to chant. It is therefore essential to look for good association. It may require sacrifices, but that\u2019s the price to pay for reaching the ultimate goal of life\u2014prema pum-artho mahan.<\/p>\n

May this find you well.
\nYour servant,
\nVisakha Priya dasi<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\"HareBy Visakha Priya dasi<\/strong><\/p>\n

Regarding the statement, \u201cKrsna consciousness is not only for temple devotees and strict brahmanas. It is for everyone at all levels,\u201d I would like to offer the following reflections for your consideration.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[2],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3094","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-articles"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3094","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=3094"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3094\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=3094"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=3094"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.dandavats.com\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=3094"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}