By Kesava Krsna Dasa
On the day of Govardhana-puja, one individual approached me. I knew he had shared loyalties. He asked me, “How is your bhajana?” I replied by saying that generally, devotees pursue sadhana Bhakti until, with mercy, they qualify themselves… “That is why you need a ‘rasika’ guru who can help you,” he replied confidently.
He was obviously thinking that Iskcon devotees in general are stuck on a lower level of devotional commitment. I didn’t want to tell him this – because it would have embarrassed him – but it appeared that he was going around telling innocent devotees about ‘higher things,’ while supposedly chanting japa. That didn’t seem to me to be a very high form of bhajana – chanting and socialising means offensive, inattentive japa.
Didn’t Srila Prabhupada also sometimes talk or preach while chanting japa? The short answer to this question is; Srila Prabhupada had already attained perfection in his chanting – who are we to imitate?
If one is serious about chanting one’s rounds, he or she will withdraw from all potential distractions, including socialising with devotees, until the required number is finished. Then we could say there is at least some serious bhajana going on. But how will innocent devotees respond to the proposition of ‘needing’ a ‘rasika’ guru?
The sort of information that accompanies this proposition can sound different, and somewhat startling for the uninformed. “Wow! I don’t normally here that kind of ‘rasa’ philosophy…” Imagine how the curiosity can pique. Being unprepared to respond in kind, there is a possibility of doubts being created – and from doubt…?
How often are we told that our strict attendance of Mangala-arati, chanting of japa and other daily spiritual functions, are to help us become regulated and ‘fixed-up?’ But ‘fixed-up’ for what? More service and more chanting? If ‘fixed-up’ essentially means to be nishta or steady, then it must form the basis of spring boarding further. What this ‘further’ entails usually remains theoretical. Very cautious are we about running before walking.
That caution can also stifle, and limit our ability to even think of things beyond what we are doing. If we are internally afraid to think ahead, then we shall not know what our Bhakti goal in life is? Without knowing our goal and not pursuing it, we can remain forever on a “trying to be fixed-up” level. Of course, this is our external position.
This is the external position that the devotee in question misunderstood. He thinks we are lacking something, and spurred by his being a disciple of a ‘higher’ guru, sought to share with me some wisdom. This motivation can appear as an assured confidence. Now I have to speak on his level.
“Isn’t Srila Prabhupada a rasika spiritual master?” I asked.
“Well, yes. Srila Prabhupada is a rasika guru…” he answered. “But he did not teach you all the intimate rasa details…”
“What about Chaitanya Charitamrta and Srimad Bhagavatam… are these just basic scriptures?” I asked.
“No, they are high scriptures, but Srila Prabhupada didn’t teach or talk very much about these things…” he retorted.
“Wasn’t Srila Prabhupada being very careful about this, so as to prevent the premature enjoying of these higher matters?” I asked again.
The conversation went on, and I really wanted to finish off with predictable outcomes. I then tried to say something to illustrate how our Srila Prabhupada is an acarya rasika spiritual master. This information is rarely spoken of, and I have not heard it said before. But speaking in his language – and he was well informed – I told him of a conviction that I had had for some time. This might be useful additional information on how our Srila Prabhupada gave us everything.
It relates to our everyday activities in Krishna consciousness and the timing of those events. In the Nectar Of Instruction verse 10, there is mention of how Sri Sri Radha and Krishna conduct Their pastimes eternally, or on a daily eightfold continuation called asta-kaliya-lila. Not much is said about this, but we do hear reference of it now and again. But they are fully described in literature that Srila Prabhupada recommended for reading – and those with shared loyalties discuss them all the time.
On average, our days begin with Mangala-arati. Depending on our level of perception, we shall either heed the greeting of Their Lordships as a sadhana wake-up call to be ‘fixed-up,’ or we can actually realise – even with awareness – that we are witnessing, and hopefully, assisting the spiritual master, who is assisting the gopis and other messengers in the waking up of the Divine Couple from Their late night pastimes (nisanta-lila) – when it is time for Them to return home – only to meet again, later.
Does it ever occur to us that the Guru-astakam prayers in which the fifth and sixth verses describe our desired vision, is dedicated in the direction of Madhurya sympathies, and that Srila Prabhupada was orientated that way too? Then comes the exalted Tulasi arati and prayers. Surely there is more to Mangala-arati than we are usually accustomed to on an external level – it is a rasika relish for the fortunate.
If we think of this as being our participation, we can find purpose to our practicing of Krishna consciousness, and that there is a goal to strive for, however exalted and glorious. We can think of the other regulated times when our Lordships are offered food during various pujas and aratis throughout each day.
Where are Their Lordships at these different times during asta-kaliya-lila? Do we ever think that all these offerings correspond with different pastimes of either the Divine Couple, or Sri Sri Gaura-Nitai throughout the day? If Srila Prabhupada set up our days like this, then his internal mood is of a rasika nature.
If so, then Srila Prabhupada established Iskcon not just for vaisnava association – and all the managerial affairs – but in time, as we develop, will be able to appreciate the internal or esoteric purpose of Iskcon. Otherwise why did Srila Prabhupada create Iskcon with its regular fixed times for different aratis and pujas? Certainly, they are meant to help us ‘fix-up,’ but to also go further and to internalise more.
Since our Iskcon days have been structured for us this way, we can actually say that Srila Prabhupada – as a rasika spiritual master acarya – had ours and Iskcon’s daily activities evolve around the asta-kaliya-lila or eightfold rasika pastimes of Their Lordships. So how can Srila Prabhupada not be a rasika vaisnava? Isn’t the occasion of Sri Govardhana-lila also a rasika event?
He may have converted all the technical Sanskrit jargon and high-sounding rasika terms and rendered them into English for our benefit, but others often misunderstand this as being a basic and rudimentary presentation of Krishna consciousness. The claim is that Srila Prabhupada only gave us the abc’s. Sometimes even we ourselves can think like this in an ordinary way.
If we can appreciate how, within the structured daily timing of our spiritual practices in Iskcon, all of our vaisnava association requirements are met… our chanting, hearing, learning – everything – then we can say again, that Srila Prabhupada gave us everything.
This lofty way of seeing how Mangala-arati should be observed, need not be construed as inappropriate or being way beyond us. As we carry out our services for the benefit of Iskcon we need glimpses of the internal reality, and these can help us define and refine our goals.
This response was agreeable, and we parted ways on an amicable note. Though the opening question of “How is your bhajana?” was suitable, the follow-up “You need a rasika guru” motivation spoiled it. And saying this implied that Srila Prabhupada is less qualified and has limited capacity to lead us to rasika reality.
To want to defend Srila Prabhupada or his mission is also misunderstood. Sometimes it is said by those with shared loyalties, that to simply be loyal to Srila Prabhupada or Iskcon on the basis of eternal gratitude and ‘unpaid debt,’ is not a spiritual quality. Especially when ‘higher’ things can be obtained elsewhere. Then what is that loyalty?
It is true that such loyalty can be sentimental if one has no philosophical grounding. But if an eternal bond is created either on a siksa or diksa level with Srila Prabhupada, is it something less to be loyal to? How can one not be loyal to one who has given everything? Isn’t there a possibility that accepting Srila Prabhupada and someone else with equal or greater loyalty, can compromise one’s goals?
Ultimately, everything hinges on our own guru bhakti and the conviction of his status. If we really do see Srila Prabhupada as the giver of everything required, then he will appear to us like that. If we view him as someone ordinary, or less advanced, then he will appear like that too – our sraddha determines these different perceptions, and will define our spiritual progress or stagnation.
And in that stagnation one can be adept at all the rasa concepts and quote them freely, but having caused a crack in the estimation of Srila Prabhupada – thinking he cannot deliver on that score – such ‘high’ eloquence remains unrealised and un’vijnana theory. Shared loyalties can produce an inequality of faith and conviction. Even the slightest minimising of the spiritual master will minimise our own outlook.
Next time someone asks us, “How is your bhajana?” we can say that, “My bhajana is at the shelter of the lotus feet of Srila Prabhupada, which can award the highest desirable rasika benedictions in life.”
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa – GRS.
This is a good topic to discuss. We may become impatient about sadhana and “expect” a result. However, bhakti yoga is not karma-kanda. You don’t get a material result for a material effort.
When we were first introduced to Krishna consciousness, we heard the expression “causeless mercy”. This means that we are not qualified to receive the boundless blessings of the Supreme Lord, yet still He is so merciful, that when He wills, anything can happen. Srila Rupa Goswami advised ‘enthusiasm, determination, and (yes) patience.’ Do not be so eager to experience something mystical or spiritual from your side, by your own power. That will fall far, far short of anything so wonderful as Lord Krishna’s mercy.
The desire to have a designation of one’s rasa by anything less than REALITY, is simply prakrita-sahajaism. It is mundane, and hence mixed with the lust and other elements of this material plane. It still reeks of the desire to be the center, the enjoyer.
Srila Prabhupad gave us what is needed to achieve the Causeless Mercy of the Lord. It does not matter, in my opinion, that one may read something or hear something from other sikshsa teachers, but you still need to be able to analyze the things properly.
Most importantly, in my experience, is that the bhaktas should strive to treat each other with respect and spiritual affection. That will overcome any search for something else, because there is nothing better than association with good hearted bhaktas. Now, the challenge will be to find that situation. Then everything will be conducive to happy execution of Krishna consciousness through sankirtan. Pusta Krishna das
Thank you Kesava Krishna Prabhu for another good and topical article.
I recently finished reading H.H. Bhakti Vikas Swami’s biography of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur Prabhupada, “Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Vilasa”. (If you have not read it yet, you should. You will love it. It is a very important book.)
One of the many important points clearly presented there is how Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada cleared away many prakrta sahajiya misconceptions, and warned against speaking about confidential lila among those who still have an enjoying spirit.
For anyone to suggest that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada was not a sufficiently “rasika” spiritual master is a foolish, ugly insult. His books are full of perfect descriptions of Krsna’s names, forms, rasas, pastimes and qualities, suitably presented for all audiences.
Reading Bhakti Vikas Swami’s biography of Srila Prabhupada’s Guru Maharaja helps enrich our understanding of how great and loyal a disciple Srila Prabhupada was, and how perfectly he followed Srila Bhaktisiddhanta and helped Srila Bhaktisiddhanta fulfill the heart’s desire of Bhaktivinode Thakur (of bringing the authentic message of Lord Caitanya around the world).
The ISKCON institution Srila Prabhupada founded is very dear to him and undoubtedly to the previous acaryas and is doing great service to Lord Caitanya throughout the world. Those who come to ISKCON programs to try to lure devotees elsewhere with promises of more qualified, “rasika” gurus, are simply displaying their own foolishness.
Of course I meant to say, “Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Vaibhava”, which is the actual name of the book.
Really, it is a magnificent book, and I encourage everyone to read it.
We should definitely expect results from our devotional practice, and the most obvious result should be our own gradual purification from material contamination and material attachments, as well as developing knowledge of God (SB 2.9.37, Purport:”Thus in the completely satisfied stage of life, exhibited by full detachment from the world of sense enjoyment as a result of performing devotional service, one can understand the science of God”). Ultimately, the mature result of devotional practice is manifested as development of love for God (CC Madhya 23.3 : Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu continued, “Now hear, O Sanātana, about the result of devotional service, which is love of Godhead, life’s ultimate goal”). Krsna consciousness is not some sort of a blind religious practice where you will only get your results after you die. Anybody can promise you anything AFTER YOU DIE – that is the easiest con game in the world, played by most religions we know. We should be very alarmed when after many years of devotional practice we fail to see any tangible results. Maybe we are doing it all wrong?
As to the main theme of this article: yes, higher rasika understanding is certainly present in Srila Prabhupada’s books and the tools were given to his disciples to obtain such an elevated level of devotion. If we do not see this level of advancement being present in a particular disciple, the reasons for it are situated within that person.
I would like to say that the devotee in question telephoned me about this article. We had a friendly chat. He questioned my observation of his chanting and socialising at the same time, saying that he carried his bead bag, but did not have his hand inside. If this is true, then I apologise profusely.
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.
I agree with Pusta Krishna Prabhu, Krishna may later send us further instruction through the medium of other gurus. However, traditionally, one’s diksa-guru occupies a special place. He is sambandha-datta, or that person who establishes our relationship with Krishna. The siksa-guru is abhideya-datta or that person who teaches us how to use what we have gotten from our diksa-guru. Traditionally, the function of the siksa-guru is to bring one closer to the diksa-guru. This is nicely described by Srila Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja, Srila Prabhupada’s godbrother who gave him sannyasa:
“It is imperative to worship diksa-guru at the first place. When we deliberate deeply, we see that the guru who bestows mantras is indeed the most prominent. Only those who give the instruction to serve diksa-guru are actually siksa-gurus. Those who are averse to giving instruction regarding service to diksa-guru can never be called siksa-gurus. In fact, they are not even Vaishnavas, for they forsake their responsibility to instruct others to give due respect to diksa-guru.”
–Srimad Bhakti Prajnan Kesava Maharaja’s Upadesavali (most important instructions) No. 17, from the book, “Acarya Kesari Sri Srimad Bhaktiprajnan Kesava Goswami His Life and Teachings”, by Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayan Maharaja. Page 564.
Hare Krishna. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I am wondering what is the purpose of Madhavananda das prabhu’s quoting from Narayan Maharaj’s books especially when Narayana Maharaj has been known to encourage devotees of ISKCON to leave the shelter of Srila Prabhupada and take shelter of him to become rasik bhakthas and reinitiated some of them. MD quoting Narayana Maharaj also shows that he has been very busy reading Maharaj’s literature. Obviously, MD couldn’t find anything in Srila Prabhupada’s books to quote and strengthen our faith in Srila Prabhupada rather he is quoting from Narayan Maharaj’s books to do what? Pls read Spiritual Master and Disciple book there you can find many quotes from Srila Prabhupada’s books on devotion to the Spiritual Master. MD prabhu did you read the title of the article before commenting or you just read only Pusta Krishna prabhu’s comments. Maybe you are not aware of Srila Prabhupada’s greatness as Sri Guru, if you did, you wouldn’t be mentioning anyone’s writings unless that person is on the stature of Sri Guru. Srila Prabhupada is Sri Guru and He is eternally present as Sri Guru within this ISKCON and Universe. The Chaittya Guru and Srila Prabhupada are non-different as such just mentioning anyone else within ISKCON especially who tried to undermine the glory of Srila Prabhupada is pretty offensive. Since Srila Prabhupada’s Manifested Leelas and till now every preacher from India including Gaudiya Matha is living off Srila Prabhupada’s preaching arena. No one has made any devotee on their own, everyone is running on and off of Srila Prabhupada’s mercy in the form of His books, His teachings and His institution. It is pretty insulting to Srila Prabhupada and His ISKCON to mention Narayan Maharaja’s statement especially he is one of the main person who said, “Swamiji gave abcd only, for higher teachings you all need to come to Gaudiya Math.” No offense to anyone but everyone knows what Narayana Maharaj and his followers did to ISKCON. There is atonement for every sin in the scripture however there is none for ungratefulness. Expressing gratitude to the Savior is bhakti and our Savior is His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Srila Prabhupada.
I will broach this topic with some understanding that we love Srila Prabhupad, those who appreciate his personal qualities, his books, and the life of service. The concept of Guru is limited when it takes into consideration only Vapu, or the physical form of the guru. Srila Prabhupad delivered a talk to the Gaudiya Math, I believe in the 1930s, in which he emphasizes that “Guru is One”. In fact, our prayer to the spiritual teacher(s), identifies, vande aham sri gurun…gurun mean pleural. The form of the Guru has many forms, and may appear in many personalities. It is not diminishing Srila Prabhupad to say this…it is recognizing the protective and instructive nature of what Guru means. It is the understanding of siksha.
There are those who have abused and even minimized the concept of Guru by sectarianism. That is a mistake, and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur has said, I believe, that sectarianism is the enemy of devotion. Now, some common sense is required. REQUIRED. Fidelity or faithfulness is required. We need to have instruction, guidance, shelter, protection of the bhakti creeper. Therefore, we should not be too quick to criticize an aspiring bhakta who gets inspiration from different places. After all, by the mercy of Krishna, one gets the association of the Guru principle (and persons), and by the mercy of such Gurus (pleural), we may reach the association of Krishna. This does not minimize Srila Prabhupad. It fulfills his important role.
I sometimes feel that some are trying to express that there is only one guru, vapu concept, and it reminds me of kids in high school saying that ‘my high school is best, be true to your school’. And, I can express this openly and without any hesitation, some have been guilty, in that spirit, of serious vaishnava-aparadha, trying to judge the position of this or that spiritual teacher. You must understand that Krishna is behind the wanderings of all beings, and He is providing us with the appropriate contacts to make progress. We can rationalize this on the mental plane, but it is a much deeper matter, as Krishna is concerned with, as is our Srila Prabhupad (and others), the soul’s eternal service to Krishna.
We do not become weaker when we appreciate this, we become stronger, and realize that we are never abandoned by Krishna, and his help, the transparent via medium, Sri Gurudeva, at every step. It is a matter for contemplation and it never ends. Pusta Krishna das
Dear Sri Gopal Das,
Please reconsider your criticism of Madhavananda Prabhu, who is very loyal to Srila Prabhupada and to ISKCON. He is a wise and thoughtful devotee. I think you must have completely misunderstood him.
Try to consider that it may well be *because* certain followers of Narayan Maharaja have sometimes been prone to suggest that devotees should leave ISKCON for supposedly “higher” instruction than Srila Prabhupada has given, that Madhavananda saw fit to quote from Narayan Maharaja a very pertinent instruction that should warn Narayan Maharaja’s followers why they should never do that.
I do not think it was insulting to Srila Prabhupada to quote this instruction, and I think it would be pleasing to Srila Prabhupada to remind everyone, including but not limited to those who claim to follow Narayan Maharaja, that anyone seeking to pry Srila Prabhupada’s followers away from his ISKCON preaching mission runs the risk of committing behavior not befitting a Vaisnava.
Your servant, Akruranatha dasa
Madhavananda Prabhu,
I was curious to read the following you wrote: “…Krishna may later send us further instruction through the medium of other gurus. However, traditionally, one’s diksa-guru occupies a special place.”
Are you able to explain what the “further instruction” implies? Is it something further or extra to what we already have in the form of Srila Prabhupada’s books and general siksa? Or do you mean “further” in the sense of enhancing total fidelity to them? If so, the wording does not appear to give this meaning.
If whatever a guru says or does should help support or enhance one’s faith in the diksa guru – in this context, Srila Prabhupada – how can we be sure that “other gurus,” – as you wrote – will have utmost fidelity to the diksa (Srila Prabhupada)?
We can appreciate that all gurus will have different perceptions, but given the history of Iskcon in which dangers were posed by different opinions that worried Srila Prabhupada, how are we to be absolutely sure that “other gurus” have the diksa guru’s (Srila Prabhupada) best interest at heart? Especially when the inference is that something “further” or “higher” is on offer?
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.
Dear “SriGopaldas” (nice alias),
Thank you for your concern and for reminding us of Srila Prabhupada’s special position. If you were really curious about our purpose, you can always try writing me directly.
Anyway, I came across this quote that was spoken by Srila Keshava Maharaja on the internet. If you contemplate on it, I think you will see that it perfectly supports Kesava Krsna Prabhu’s article.
Dear Kesava Krsna Prabhu,
Thank you again for your gentle behavior and thought provoking articles. Regarding your questions:
“Further instruction” doesn’t just mean information. There are two types of siksa-gurus –realized, and not realized. The second can repeat what he or she has read or heard. However, the first can more deeply inspire. Because of their realization, pratyaksavagamam dharmyam, they can present that which is raja-vidya, and raja-guhyam — the topmost, most confidential knowledge. By nature such “further instruction” should enhance one’s relationship with their diksa-guru.
Ie: A devotee takes initiation from someone and receives Krishna-mantra. If they take shelter of their guru via the mantra and instructions they have been given, Krishna will further appear to them to guide them. In his Brhad Bhagavatamrta, Srila Sanatan Goswami has given the example of Gopa Kumar, who only had a few moments’ association with his guru. He received mantra but no instructions on it. Even he didn’t know who the deity of the mantra (Gopal) was. Still Gopa Kumar had faith in his guru, and faith in the mantra. By Gop Kumar’s chanting in such a mood, Krishna took care of him and appeared before him in different forms as siksa-gurus to help him progress on the path. This appearance of the Lord in the form of various siksa-gurus gave Gopa Kumar more faith in his mantra and in his diksa-guru who gave it to him.
You wrote:
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How can we be sure that “other gurus,” will have utmost fidelity to the diksa (Srila Prabhupada)?
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Srila Prabhupada is of course not everyone’s diksa-guru. For myself and many others he is our param-gurudeva and the Founder Acarya of this society. The question is: how can we be sure that other gurus will have fidelity to our guru or to Srila Prabhupada?
I’m sure if you have an easy answer to this it would be much appreciated by many devotees.
The simple, unpalatable fact is that there is no material way to ensure it.
Srila Jiva Goswami advises that sincere aspirants on the path of prema, not take initiation for ecclesiastical reasons. If we contemplate it, we can see that there are two types of ecclesiastical or institutional attitudes towards guru: 1) Sentimental devotees who blindly depend on the institution (whoever that is) to give them guru. And 2) Disgruntled persons who blindly reject anything from the institution (whoever that is) as being bogus.
Continued …
Continued from above:
Blind following and blanket rejection are two sides of the same material coin. The only guarantee to find a bonafide guru is to take shelter of Krishna. In Vraja there was only one person who could recognize Putana as the false guru. Even Yasoda and Rohini could not recognize her. Only one small baby saw Putana for what she was. Sophisticated persons don’t have faith in taking shelter of babies. However if we want to be protected from the false teachers in this world, there is no other option than to take shelter of Yasoda’s darling child.
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakura has described:
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“At the dawn of our spiritual life we sincerely and with complete submission and self-surrender pray to God for receiving the protection of Sad Guru. The Supreme Lord, perceiving our earnestness and devotion with a view to guide us on the true path, will send a real guru to us. Otherwise it is impossible for us to find Sad Guru by our own fallible energy. If we guide ourselves by our own energy we shall come across the pseudo-gurus and being caught hold of by them by their temporary pleasing manners, run down to hell.” — Harmonist p. 139 Vol. XXVII, No. 5. Oct 1929.
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There is a nice discussion on this point, wherein Srila Prabhupada has described:
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Prabhupada: The best friend is the spiritual master because he saves one from the blazing fire of confusion.
O’Grady: The problem is to find this spiritual master.
Prabhupada: No, there is no problem. The problem is if you are sincere. … You have got problems, but God is within your heart. isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese ‘rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. God is not far away. God is within your heart. So if you are sincere, then God will give you a spiritual master.
O’Grady: Thank you. That I know.
Prabhupada: Therefore God is called caitya-guru, the spiritual master within the heart. And the physical spiritual master is God’s mercy. If God sees that you are sincere, He will give you a guru who can give you protection. He will help you from within and without, without in the physical form of spiritual master, and within as the spiritual master within the heart.
Continued below …
Continued from above:
… Prabhupada: The body is just like a machine, the spirit soul is sitting on this machine, and God is there within the heart. He is giving the direction, “You wanted to do this. Now you go and do this.” So if you are sincere, “Now, God, I want You,” then He will give you directions, “You go and get it.” This is the process. But if we want something else than God, then God will give you direction, “You go and take it.” He’s very kind. isvarah sarva… I want to have something and He is within my heart, and He is giving me direction, “Yes, you come here. You take this.” So if that God can give you indication, “You go and take this,” then why not the spiritual master? First of all we must be eager to again revive our God consciousness. Then God will give us the spiritual master.
— Room Conversation with Irish poet Desmond O’Grady, Rome, 23 May 1974. The Science of Self Realization, chapter 7. Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Los Angeles.
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It is not ISKCON’s (whoever that is) responsibility to give us a guru, anymore than it is ISKCON’s responsibility to give us a husband or a wife. The society can provide training and counseling, but ultimately we have to make our own decisions about our spouse, our guru and our association.
This is a very good discussion, and I consider that it is not at all offensive, but rather insightful. Srila Prabhupad never suggested that one accept Sri Gurudeva in any of His forms without discrimination. The process of decision making is check and balance: Guru, Shastra, Sadhu. The three must all be congruent. And, mattah smritir jnanam apo hanam ca, He is within our hearts and gives us the understanding one way or the other in which to proceed. The one that you are learning from does not have to be God-realized to be appreciated as a guide for you. They may appear as a street-sweeper to teach you, or even as Chintamani, the prostitute. The principal, that one has faith in Krishna, as Srila Prabhupad highlighted. But, one can see Guru potentially in everything and from all sides.
We have heard the anecdotal story how Srila Gaura Kishor das Babaji had stones thrown at him from children, and he remarked, “Oh Krishna, you are so naughty, I will have to tell Mother Yashoda about You.” The idea is there. Again, as mentioned in my comments to the Gainesville program, there is the instance when our Praghosa (ACBSP) was with others and Srila Prabhupad discussing book distribution. One of the prominent book distributors said that they were compiling a book with “good lines” that book distributors might use in their service. Srila Prabhupad replied…”that is not our process. Do you know that in every bhakta there is a genius, the Supersoul.” Thus, we can see that the foundation of devotional life is faith. Our Gurudeva, Srila Prabhupad, had so great a faith in Krishna that he deputized us to spread Krishna consciousness all around the world. Imagine that! A person with only a year of limited experience in Krishna conscious practice having the confidence of Sri Jagat Guru to take on such serious tasks. It was not that we were qualified, but that Srila Prabhupad had faith in Lord Chaitanya. He overlooked our deficiencies, and we should not mistake ourselves to be great bhaktas by this. We never want to be accused of becoming like the mosquito on the lap of the King, thinking that those in the audience of the King have become the subjects of the mosquito, ie, do not be envious of Sri Gurudeva. Affectionately, Pusta Krishna das
“It is not ISKCON’s (whoever that is) responsibility to give us a guru, anymore than it is ISKCON’s responsibility to give us a husband or a wife. The society can provide training and counseling, but ultimately we have to make our own decisions about our spouse, our guru and our association.”
Agreed. And yet, it seems to me that ISKCON (which is Srila Prabhupada’s preaching institution headed by the Governing Body Commission) has a responsibility to preserve the correct standards and conclusions in accordance with Srila Prabhupada’s instructions.
Those who *have* taken shelter of Srila Prabhupada were (almost always) engaged by him in some practical service aimed at pushing on the mission of the institution, to help all the fallen souls surpass the ocean of death by chanting Hare Krishna, to bring about widespread awareness and appreciation for the teachings of Lord Krishna and Lord Caitanya, primarily through harinama sankirtan and study and distribution of Srila Prabhupada’s books, and establishing centers for training serious students.
The ISKCON society may train and counsel people to make their own decisions about spouse, guru and association, but hopefully we can train people in such a way that they can help ISKCON be successful as a society in which good association and transparent guidance from Sri Gurudeva is found. We hope they will find a good spouse (if they seek marriage) and a good guru (if they seek perfect understanding of Absolute Truth) within the good association of ISKCON.
Ideally, such training and counseling will encourage the trainees to also work for the continued effectiveness and success of the society in training others, and to in turn become c0unselors and trainers and qualified spiritual masters in the line of disciplic succession from Srila Prabhupada.
If that is “institutionalism”, it is positive institutionalism as taught by Srila Prabhupada.
In a conversation in Delhi in 1935, reprinted in “Gaudiya” 14.172-74, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Prabhupada stated: “I know of no place other than Gaudiya Math where the absolute truth is discussed. If there is, it will be incorporated into the Gaudiya Math.”
We may think of ISKCON in the same way. How others will be incorporated into ISKCON without disturbing its purity, unity, cohesion and effectiveness may remain a topic for responsible, thoughtful consideration by followers of the Founder-Acarya. Based on past experience, we must proceed with caution.
Hare Krishna
To the initial question raised “How is your bhajana?”, one may reflect upon what an humble answer and a not so humble one, may be…
What is expected from the person inquiring ? What would he answer himself…? What would a proud person or an advanced devotee answer ?
Secondly, people tend to eat Delhika laddhu (in their mind) and fantasize about states of consciousness they have not yet qualified for… Hence, they rush to try and taste a green mango, both for lack of patience and humility, failing to acknowledge their current position honestly…
Besides, mocking the attitude of the baby monkey who tries to jump on the back of his mother, they try and pretend to be where they are not and relish what is still foreign to them…
In this way, they fail to understand that everything comes through nercy and that the safest way to get some mercy is through service… So, the question should rather be raised in regards to service, rather than one’s ability to properly glorify the Supreme Lord, which an advanced devotee will most likely deny…
However, his service being the life and soul of the sincere devotee, he will be more inclined to open up about the ways he is trying to serve Guru & Krishna, to his best capacity…
In regards to the other point raised in the initial quote provided by Madhavananda Prabhu, one may question if devotees are being encouraged in the service of the movement founded by Srila Prabhupada ? Besides, one may also wonder if this instruction remains valid at all times, even if the diksa guru is considerably less advanced than the siksa guru…?
Whatever be the case, one should rest assured that Krishna and Srila Prabhupada will provide whatever guidance and support is necessary to everyone at any time, provided one remains faithful to Srila Prabhupada and follows his instruction to never leave ISKCON, despite all odds and troubles…
Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja mentioned, concerning some of his godbrothers and current ISKCON gurus that they were rasika bhaktas… So, why would they not receive proper guidance from their uttama adhikari guru ?
As Kesava Krishna Prabhu likes to depict it, when there is faith, there is hope… Therefore, one should keep serving with enthusiasm and determination, while being patient, considering oneself unworthy (as Pusta Krishna Prabhu acurately reminded us) and keeping in mind that yasya prasado bhagavat prasado, yasya aprasado na gati kuto pi…
Just a quick word on Pusta Krishna Prabhu’s comment on Guru being a principle.
To be honest with you, I do not feel confortable with this concept.
So, even if I agree that for one who has eyes to see and ears to hear, there is scope for learning from anyone either what to do or what not to do, as well as draw a lesson from various situations in life, I still do consider my beloved Guru Maharaja as my life and soul and feel that no one could ever replace him…
However, I understand that for those who have accepted a “still conditioned” soul as diksa guru, there may be the need for accepting one or several more elevated devotees as siksa gurus, but I do feel that for those who have been blessed with the association and mercy of a nitya-siddha, there is no need to do so. In this way, ekeha kuru nandana, love doesn’t need to divided and can naturallly and powerfully flow towards Sri Guru’s lotus feet…
Therefore, I aspire to only be the eternal servant of my beloved Gurudeva…
sri guru carane rati ei se uttama gati…
Janme janme Prabhu sei…
As far as I understood, I believe Srila Prabhupada felt the same way towards his Guru Maharaja : ” My Guru is unique; he saved me “.
So, I personally find this concept of Guru as a principle to be tinged with impersonalism…
Where is the question of love then, if our beloved Gurudeva can be substituted by any other teacher…?
In 1986, some time after I had received initiation from him, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja told me:
” This is an eternal loving relationship. It is not dependant on time and space. You should think about this very deeply, Puskaraksa ! “.
So, with all respect, I personally do only aspire to eternally serve my beloved Guru Maharaja’s lotus feet, all the more knowing that he, himself (or herself on the transcendental plane) is eternally enaged in the service of Srila Prabhupada’s nitya lila…
Remaining your servant
in the service of Sri Guru & Sri Gauranga
Das dasanudasa
Puskaraksa das – GGS
@Pusta Krishna Prabhu: My humble understanding is that the bonafide disciple will hear the voice of his guru and see his guru everywhere. Srila Saraswati Thakur has said:
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It is my Gurudeva who is graciously present in all different forms. If he were not graciously present in all of these different forms, then who would preserve me? Those whom my Gurudeva made his own are my saviors. But may I never have occasion to see the face of that wicked person, who is a source of evil, who maligns the lotus feet of my Sri Gurudeva or who countenances in any way such a slanderer.
The moment I fall away from the lotus feet of Sri Guru or forget them, I certainly fall away from the truth. As soon as I fall away from the lotus feet of Sri Guru I find myself encompassed by innumerable wants. I run in a hurry for my bath. I become busy for preventing a cold. I run after other occupations different from the service of Sri Gurudeva. It is the lotus feet of Sri Gurudeva that alone protect me constantly from all this attachment for objects other than the truth. If I do not remember the lotus feet of Sri Guru at the beginning of every new year, every new month, every new day, and every new moment, then I am sure to fall into far greater inconveniences. If I do not remember his lotus feet then the desire will come to dress myself in the garb of the guru. I will become liable to the bad desire of seeking to be worshipped by other people as guru. It is this which constitutes addiction to things other than the truth. •
— Sri Chaitanya’s Teachings page 262-263.
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This is something like the avadhuta brahmin who heard the voice of guru in the bumblebee, the prostitute, the elephant, the arrow maker etc. At the same time, it is not that, that bumblebee or elephant was the same to him as his guru. There is a distinction. Such a devotee is always attentive to receive instruction however his or her guru may send it, but it’s not that they necessarily consider that medium to be identical in all respects with their guru.
@Akruranath Prabhu: Thank you for your clarification. I agree 100%, it’s the duty of the disciple to serve the mission of the spiritual master. Like Krishna when he entered Kamsa’s wrestling arena, different persons will see Srila Prabhupada and his mission in different ways. I consider ISKCON to be the seva-sanga of Srila Prabhupada. We should serve it not because of mechanical institutional considerations, but out of devotion because it is Srila Prabhupada’s seva-sanga. I think our point is the same.
@Puskaraksa Prabhu: The diksa-guru may or may not be as primary in our heart as our siksa-guru. However, it is the diksa-guru who gives the mantra which is non-different from Krishna and therefore traditionally is worshiped by the devotee on the altar. Raghunath Das Goswami is famous as svarupera raghunatha — or the Raghunath of his siksa-guru Svarupa Damodar Goswami. However, in his writings Raghunath always describes his guru as Yadunandan Acarya (the disciple of Vasudeva Datta and friend of Haridas Thakur). Although he received more from Svarupa Damodar, Raghunath gave more official respect to Yadunandan Acarya because it was he who was his formal diksa-guru. Similarly we consider that Thakur Bhaktivinode was closer to his siksa-guru Jagannath Das Babaji than to his formal diksa-guru Vipina Bihari Goswami. However, nowhere in his writings does Bhaktivinode cite Jagannath Das as his guru. In fact he doesn’t even mention Jagannath Das Babaji in his writings at all. He always speaks of Vipina Bihari Goswami, whom he says “he was praying for and Krishna sent to him”.
Again, this is because there is a special formal respect that is given to the diksa-guru. Hari-bhakti-vilasa (4.353) quotes the Vāmana-kalpa:
yo mantraḥ sa guruḥ sākṣāt
yo guruḥ sa hariḥ smṛtaḥ
gurur yasya bhavet tuṣṭas
tasya tuṣṭo hariḥ svayam
“The mantra is the guru himself, and the guru is said to be the Lord Himself. If the spiritual master is pleased with his disciple, then the Lord Himself is pleased with that person.”
Puskaraksa Prabhu writes:
‘However, I understand that for those who have accepted a “still conditioned” soul as diksa guru, there may be the need for accepting one or several more elevated devotees as siksa gurus, but I do feel that for those who have been blessed with the association and mercy of a nitya-siddha, there is no need to do so.’
There may be many reasons why a devotee who has a bona fide diksa guru also takes shelter of various siksa gurus (with the permission of the diksa guru and the mood and understanding that the siksa gurus are assistants to the diksa guru in his task of bringing the disciple to Krishna’s lotus feet).
One reason may simply be a matter of geographic proximity. If a qualified devotee is physically present and able to train the disciple of another diksa guru, the disciple should accept such training without feeling his or her loyalty has been divided, because the siksa guru is assisting the diksa guru.
Srila Prabhupada wrote to Kirtanananda that as long as he was saying exactly what Srila Prabhupada was saying, he was a siksa guru. If it were not for the proliferation of siksa-gurus in this way, ISKCON could not have grown very much, because Srila Prabhupada could only directly train so many disciples. Of course we had his books, his recorded lectures, his letters and so on, but we also had to rely on the guidance of his senior disciples as extensions of his direct personal guidance.
The principle is the same whether the siksa guru is a Vaisnava of greater stature and power than the diksa guru or lesser. The diksa guru is unique because of the personal relationship of mutual commitment.
All Vaisnavas are “absolute”, and yet some are extraordinarily empowered by Krishna in different ways. Still, one’s own diksa guru, even if externally less senior or learned or renounced or dynamic or revered within the general community of devotees, has a primary relationship as the savior of the disciple, the manifestation of Lord Madanamohana, emblem of sambandha jnana.
For example, a chaste wife is devoted to her own husband: even if he works as a janitor or mail clerk, she will never accept dishonest advances of a senior executive or CEO. But if the CEO offers help to the family in time of need, with permission and approval of the husband, out of honest motivation, she will gladly accept. Similarly, a senior Vaisnava acting as siksa guru may assist a junior diksa guru. Both are “Guru”, so there must be harmony.
In his book “The Siksa-guru”, H.H. Sivarama Swami calls this the “Traditional Protocol”: Siksa gurus are seen as assistants to the diksa guru and must have permission of the diksa guru, regardless of their seniority or greater stature within the Vaisnava community or greater manifestation of Lord Krishna’s empowerment in preaching or other activities.
Both siksa gurus and diksa gurus are accepted as manifestations of the Personality of Godhead to the disciple (though they are actually devotees). Because they are carrying God’s message, as His confidential servants, they are accepted as manifestations of God, directly, as confirmed by all sastras (saksad-dharivena samasta sastrair uktas tatha bhavyata eva sadbhih). As multiple manifestations of the same Supreme Person, there can be no disharmony.
Other considerations may arise when the devotee giving diksa proves to be unqualified and liable to be rejected by the disciple (for example, by being inimical to the actual conclusions of the Vaisnava acaryas, or by abandoning proper Vaisnava behavior). In such case the rejected, so-called guru is not really one’s spiritual master. [This is not to say that every spiritual master who stumbles from perfect sadacara is to be immediately rejected].
Sivarama Swami’s book is a good introduction to this subject of siksa-gurus, and the book itself indicates the need for more extensive authoritative instruction on this topic.
“Institutionalism” of course exists within ISKCON but not only within ISKCON. The same phenomenon exists in other spiritual institutions.
And yet our acaryas have recognized a need for effective preaching institutions.
There may always be a tendency of members of one spiritual institution to try to attract followers and resources away from other institutions. One strategy might be to paint the teachings or leadership of the target institution as inferior. Another might be to undermine the sense of loyalty to the target institution as mere “institutionalism”. But all these strategies may be seen as manifestations of the same spirit of competition between different associations, sangas, or institutions.
Part of the beauty and genius of the GBC system is that it enables the preaching institution to be something much bigger and more universal than simply the seva-sanga of a particular exalted devotee. Yes, ISKCON is the seva-sanga of its Founder-Acarya, His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, but it is also dedicated to promoting universal principles taught by all Gaudiya Vaisnava acaryas and sastras. It was not meant to be a mere personality cult of Srila Prabhupada.
Srila Prabhupada always put Krishna in the center, making it much more universal. ISKCON should ideally be pure enough that every pure person will want to cooperate and serve the mission, rather than assert control or entitlement to particular position, authority, followers, respect, etc. Then it can and will be a lasting and gigantic, effective organization without losing its purity.
Srila Prabhupada wrote, “We have actual experience that even on this planet there have been many great politicians and military commanders like Napoleon, Hitler, Shubhash Chandra Bose and Gandhi, but as soon as their lives were finished, their popularity, influence and everything else were finished also.” [S.B. 7.9.23 Purport]
Srila Prabhupada took care to make *Krishna* and the principles of Krishna consciousness the focal point of ISKCON, so that disciples of many different bona fide gurus and acaryas can cooperate together in one larger, more universal mission, which can be managed by a committee dedicated to the teachings and principles handed down through parampara.
If many acaryas could not cooperate in one organization, due to “institutionalism” and competition between their followers, what would that say about acaryas and their message? Wouldn’t they be like Napoleons?
@Madhavananda Prabhu: When we refer to sastras and previous acaryas, guru means guru !
yo mantraḥ sa guruḥ sākṣāt
yo guruḥ sa hariḥ smṛtaḥ
” The mantra is the guru himself, and the guru is said to be the Lord Himself. ”
But nowadays, how many diksa gurus are saksad Hari ?
If it advised to receive the Holy Name from the lips of a pure devotee, then what happens if one doesn’t receive suddha Nama and pure mantra diksa ?
There is always absolute and relative consideration…
Referring to your initial quote, should Srila Prabhupada’s disciples be engaged in the service of their diksa Guru and his ISKCON Movement ? Yes, for sure !
Dear Akruranatha Prabhu
Thank you for bringing some more insight to the debate…
In the first place, there seem to be different approaches to the word “guru” and as it is, “siksa guru”…
For some, anyone who gives a valid instruction or sets a valid example, be it in a limited occurence or sphere, may be understood to have acted as a siksa guru… Similarly, if repeating part of the message of the scritures (even without having realized it) is sufficient to be worthy of the title of “siksa guru”, you are using the right word when you speak of the “proliferartion” of siksa gurus… To that, I prefer the common use of the word “Prabhu” which conveys both some respect and the understanding that we can learn from each other, and even further, inspire each other…
However, there is a deeper understanding and use of the word “guru” and as it is, “siksa guru”: one who takes charge of instructing one’s disciple all the way from engaging him/her in his/her service to Sri Govinda Dev (abhideya) to establishing him/her in his/her svarupa and nitya seva to Sri Gopinatha Ji in the spiritual world (prayojana).
But, as mentioned earlier, how is this possible if one is still a conditioned soul…? How can one establish others in their constitutional position, when he is not established himself ?
Srila Praphupada stresses the need to accept an uttama adhikari as spiritual master, so as to be able to reach the ultimate goal…
However, I understand that one may be willing to get all possible help and support and try to find some condusive for progress, good devotee association, locally, as per the geographic factor you raised…
But on the ultimate platform, who may be closer to you than Caitya Guru ?
Who may be closer to you than that nitya siddha pure vaishnava saddhu guru who is saksad Hari, who is the external manifestation of the Supersoul…?
Who may be more benevolent than him ?
Who, alike Krishna present within the heart as Paramatma, may be more aware than this saksad Hari saddhu guru of what we need and what we lack…?
“But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form–to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.”
B.g. 9.22
I am afraid that there is no substitute to a pure devotee !
Devotees at large are our friends and we are there to help one another perfect our devotional service, but only a liberated soul, a pure devotee, will be able to elevate us to his platform, i.e. the absolute…
Dear Puskaraksa Prabhu,
Yes, I agree that we should accept as spiritual masters those who are most pure and experienced in the science of Krishna and all the ways of bhakti and who are completely free from the tendency to try to enjoy or control or to criticize others.
And yet as followers of His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada we should be dedicated to the success of this ISKCON movement and should be careful to seek such guidance and association in ways that are congenial to our service within ISKCON.
We should not listen to propagandists who argue, “You cannot get such association and guidance within ISKCON; you have to join the seva sanga of some other supposedly ‘most senior Vaisnava’.” Nor should we preoccupy ourselves with criticizing Vaisnavas who for some reason are working and preaching independently from Srila Prabhupada’s society.
In ISKCON we have learned some rules of etiquette regarding canvassing and promoting gurus. It is better not to do it. We should keep our relationship with our own guru as a personal and confidential treasure, and we should not make waves by claiming some unique, special position of our guru over others’ gurus.
If we have some doubts about discrepancies in the behavior or teachings of an ISKCON leader, we should have channels through which we can make these concerns known in a discreet and responsible way without fear of retaliation or violations of our own confidentiality.
And yet anyone actually worthy to be called “Prabhu” (a very high term of respect) should be treated with great care and attention.
And yes, one reason for being sent to siksa gurus for further training may be that an especially qualified disciple may need to study under a more learned or experienced Vaisnava than his own initiating guru. Even in that case, however, at least according to traditional rules of Vaisnava etiquette or “the Traditional Protocol”, the siksa guru should not come between or disturb the relation between the diksa guru and disciple.
As I said, there may be times when an erstwhile “guru” becomes so inimical to true Vaisnava teachings and practices that he is liable to be rejected by the disciple.
But there should not be this competition between Gaudiya Vaisnava preaching missions where disciples (with or without encouragement by their gurus) try to woo disciples away from existing gurus by asserting they are inferior and inadequate. (I have seen this practiced by some Narayana Maharaja followers.)
Hence, whether or not some have, knowingly or unknowingly, reached the stage of pure devotion, we can still rest assured that some are definitely on their way to do so and will achieve the desired result, by the grace of Srila Prabhupada and other pure devotees in his line.
Besides, on top of all revealed scriptures, all sincere seekers of Truth can refer, not only to the pure teachings of Srila Prabhupada, but also to all the teachings left by our previous acaryas. Hence, there is no shortage of inspiration, while remaining sheltered in our line.
Aspiring only to be the servant of the servant of the servant, being worshipers of qualities in others, while overlooking their defects and limitations, a sincere devotee is always eager to learn from each and every devotee and draws some inspiration from their good example and virtues.
Therefore, we are, ourselves, also confident to be able to achieve success in our spiritual life, if we take shelter of some sincere and faithful follower(s) of Srila Prabhupada, who will himself/themselves achieve success… Hence, we have confidence in this chain of servants of Srila Prabhupada, which represents, as it is, his eternal entourage…
Therefore, even we value the opportunity to surrender to a realized soul, if we cannot do so, whether we lack the sufficient sukriti, or if there is none available, either geographically or temporarily, we still have to remain patiently, consistently and faithfully engaged in the process of serving Srila Prabhupada’s ISKCON Movement. By doing so, we can rest assured that by Mahaprabhu’s and Srila Prabhupada’s mercy, we will be guided, in due course of time, to such a realized soul, a tattva darshi who sees Krishna and will be able to impart the ultimate knowledge and bless us with prema bhakti, having achieved himself such a stage of self realization, provided we qualify ourselves too, via our seva, as well as our sincerity and full surrender…
Hence, there is no need to run the great danger of lending a complacent ear to those, outside of ISKCON, who will tend to belittle Srila Prabhupada and his followers, while advertising themselves and their matha and ending up trying to compete with ISKCON !
Srila Prabhupada had warned us many times in that respect…
Why not simply follow his instructions and trust that everything we need can be found within ISKCON, while remaining faithful to him and his Movement, meant to host the whole world…?