More questions to the GBC

10 Comments to “ More questions to the GBC”

1. shiva says :

   Aug 26, 2006 at 8:28 pm

   From Jiva Goswami’s Krsna Sandarbha 155.6:

   Lord Krsna’s ability to be manifested in many places simultaneously and perform many different activities at the same time by His mystic potency is not shared by anyone else. No yogi or sage can perform such wonderful activities.

   In Krsna Sandarbha Jiva Goswami says there are two types of expansions of the Supreme Lord

   This is confirmed in the Varaha Purana:

   The two kinds of expansions from the Supreme Personality of Godhead are : 1. svamsa (personal expansions) and 2. vibhinnamsa (separate persons). The svamsa expansions are unlimitedly powerful. Their form and personality are the same as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself. There is not the slightest difference between the svamsa expansions and the Original Personality of Godhead. The vibhinnamsa expansions are very weak in comparison to Them.

   From Bhaktivinoda Thakura’s Jaiva Dharma

   Srila Jiva Gosvami describes the Supreme Person in these words:

   “The Absolute Truth is one. Still, by His inconceivable potency He is manifested in four ways: 1. svarupa (His original form), 2. tad-rupa-vaibhava (His incarnations), 3. jiva (the individual spirit souls), and 4. pradhana (the material energy). These four features are like: 1. the interior of the sun planet, 2. the sun’s surface, 3. the sunlight, and 4. the reflection of the sun.”

   As Srila Prabhupada states the queens of Dwaraka are vaibhava-prakasa expansions of Radharani.

   C.C. Madhya 20.170-176

   It is astounding that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, who is one without a second, expanded Himself in sixteen thousand similar forms to marry sixteen thousand queens in their respective homes.

   If one form or feature is differently manifested according to different emotional features, it is called vaibhava-prakāśa.

   When the Lord expands Himself in innumerable forms, there is no difference in the forms, but due to different features, bodily colors and weapons, the names are different.

   In different Vedic scriptures, there are prescribed rules and regulative principles for worshiping different types of forms. When one is purified by these rules and regulations, he worships You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although manifested in many forms, You are one.

   The first manifestation of the vaibhava feature of Kṛṣṇa is Śrī Balarāmajī. Śrī Balarāma and Kṛṣṇa have different bodily colors, but otherwise Śrī Balarāma is equal to Kṛṣṇa in all respects.

   An example of vaibhava-prakāśa is the son of Devakī. He sometimes has two hands and sometimes four hands

   When the Lord is two-handed He is called vaibhava-prakāśa, and when He is four-handed He is called prābhava-prakāśa.

   From Sri Caitanya Caritamrta

   tara madhye vraie nana bhava-rasa-bhede krsnake karaya rasadika-lilasvade

   Among them are various groups of consorts in Vraja who have varieties of sentiments and mellows. They help Lord Krsna taste all the sweetness of the rasa dance and other pastimes.

   PURPORT

   As already explained, Krsna and Radha are one in two. They are identical. Krsna expands Himself in multi-incarnations and plenary portions like the purusas. Similarly, Srimati Radharani expands Herself in multi-forms as the goddesses of fortune, the queens and the damsels of Vraja. Such expansions from Srimati Radharani are all Her plenary (completely identical) portions. All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna’s pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.

   The plenary expansions of Krsna’s personality are called vaibhava-vilasa and vaibhava-prakasa, and Radha’s expansions are similarly described. The goddesses of fortune are vaibhava-vilasa, and the queens are vaibhava-prakasa of Radharani. The personal associates of Radharani, the damsels of Vraja, are direct expansions of Her body. As expansions of Her personai form and transcendental disposition, they are agents of different reciprocations of love in the pastimes of Lord Krsna, under the supreme direction of Srimati Radharani.

   So the queens of Dwaraka are not jivas. They are vaibhava prakasa expansions of Srimati Radharani. As Srila Prabhupada writes they are “womanly forms of Krsna”.
2. Tamoharadasa says :

   Aug 28, 2006 at 4:24 pm

   Thank you all very much for taking time to explain to this fallen rascal what is the siddhanta. It is actually far above my real understanding, but intellectually I am most satisfied. By your bessings, perhaps one day I can enter into the true nectar of Sri Jagadananda’s pastimes.

   Tamoharadasa
3. Kavicandra Swami says :

   Sep 9, 2006 at 4:16 pm

   But although Arjuna is with Krishna in innumerable different material universes at one time, still there is only one spirit soul who is Arjuna. This spirit soul expands into many different bodies and thus you can understand that there are also incarnations of devotees as well as incarnations of Krishna. This is the power of the spirit soul, that it is unlimited. Such conception cannot be understood while one is still in the conditioned state.

   letter to saradiya 1968
4. shiva says :

   Sep 10, 2006 at 8:31 pm

   Srila Prabhupada wrote in Krsna book

   Although it may be said that yogīs also can expand their bodies into many forms, the yogī’s expansion and Lord Krsna’s expansion are not one and the same. Krsna is therefore sometimes called Yogeśvara, the master of all yogīs. In the Vedic literature we find that the yogī Saubhari Muni expanded himself into eight. But that expansion was like a television expansion. The television image is manifested in millions of expansions, but those expansions cannot act differently; they are simply reflections of the original and can only act exactly as the original does. Krsna’s expansion is not material like the expansion of the television or the yogī. When Nārada visited the different palaces of Krsna, he saw that Krsna, in His different expansions, was variously engaged in each and every palace of the queens.

   So what Prabhupada said in that letter to Saradiya does not contradict Jiva Goswami who writes: “Lord Krsna’s ability to be manifested in many places simultaneously and perform many different activities at the same time by His mystic potency is not shared by anyone else. No yogi or sage can perform such wonderful activities.”
5. Urmila devi dasi says :

   Sep 11, 2006 at 7:59 am

   Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

   In regards to whether or not jivas can be queens of Lord Krishna in Dvaraka (see Shiva’s comment), there is a clear statement in the Nectar of Devotion that jivas who attain perfection through sadhana bhakti can realize this svarupa:

   Conjugal love is divided into two classifications — namely, conjugal love as husband and wife and conjugal love as lover and beloved. One who develops conjugal love for Krsna as a wife is promoted to Dvaraka, where the devotee becomes the queen of the Lord. One who develops conjugal love for Krsna as a lover is promoted to Goloka Vrndavana, to associate with the gopis and enjoy loving affairs with Krsna there. We should note carefully, however, that this conjugal love for Krsna, either as gopi or as queen, is not limited only to women. Even men can develop such sentiments, as was evidenced by the sages of Dandakaranya. If someone simply desires conjugal love, but does not follow in the footsteps of the gopis, he is promoted to association with the Lord at Dvaraka.

   In the Maha-kurma Purana it is stated, “Great sages who were the sons of fire-gods rigidly followed the regulative principles in their desire to have conjugal love for Krsna. As such, in their next lives they were able to associate with the Lord, the origin of all creation, who is known as Vasudeva, or Krsna, and all of them got Him as their husband.”
   (NOD, chapter 16)

   Your servant, Urmila devi dasi
6. shiva says :

   Sep 11, 2006 at 8:43 pm

   Dear Urmila devi dasi; this is indeed a mystery. These are contradictory positions espoused by Srila Prabhupada. On the one hand the Caitanya Caritamrta states that the queens are vaibhava-prakasa of Srimati Radharani and states that:

   CC Adi 4.74-75: The beloved consorts of Lord Krsna are of three kinds: the goddesses of fortune, the queens, and the milkmaids of Vraja, who are the foremost of all. These consorts all proceed from Radhika.

   CC Adi 4.76: Just as the fountainhead, Lord Krsna, is the cause of all incarnations, so Sri Radha is the cause of all these consorts.

   We are being told that the those consorts proceeed from Radha in the same way that Krsna has incarnations.

   CC Adi 4.77: The goddesses of fortune are partial manifestations of Srimati Radhika, and the queens are reflections of Her image.

   CC Adi 4.78: The goddesses of fortune are Her plenary portions, and they display the forms of vaibhava-vilasa. The queens are of the nature of Her vaibhava-prakasa.

   In the purport Srila Prabhupada writes:

   “All these womanly forms of Krsna are expansions corresponding to His plenary expansions of Visnu forms. These expansions have been compared to reflected forms of the original form. There is no difference between the original and reflected forms. The female reflections of Krsna’s pleasure potency are as good as Krsna Himself.”

   So indeed this is a mystery. I would venture to say that there is an esoteric understanding which is revealed to the devotee who is ready to understand.
7. shiva says :

   Sep 12, 2006 at 9:26 pm

   While the Caitanya Caritamrta and Srila Prabhupada may not directly say this, but they may be refering to the primary queens as opposed to all the queens, then aagin there may be a deeper esoteric explanation.

   This is from Sri Jiva Goswami’s Krsna Sandarbha:

   Anuccheda 183

   These sixteen queens of Lord Krsna are His transcendental potencies. Lord Krsna appears like the splendid moon, and these queens appear like the sixteen phases of this Krsna-moon.

   O beautiful Gauri, these queens appear like the sixteen phases of the moon, which begin with the new moon day and proceed for sixteen days culminating in the full moon.

   Among these sixteen queens, Kala-devi, who is supremely auspicious, and nicely decorated with garlands and ornaments, is very prominent. These sixteen principal queens of Lord Krsna expand into many thousands of queens. In this way the potencies of Lord Krsna are manifest.

   They who understand this confidential instruction about the Lord’s potencies, whose forms are all composed of transcendental knowledge, are known as Vaisnavas, pure devotees of Lord Vishnu (sa jneyo vaisnavo budhaih).

   This is from Raghava Goswami’s Sri Krsna-bhakti-ratna-prakasa:

   That Sri Radha is manifested from half of Lord Krsna’s body is also described in the Govinda-Vrndavana-sastra, where Sri Krsna says to Balarama:

   “O Balarama, please listen and I will tell You something. One day, taking My flute, My heart full of bliss and My form bending in three places, I went under a kadamba tree and, seeing My own form reflected in a splendid golden platform studded with jewels, I became enchanted. At that moment My heart became filled with the sweet happiness known as conjugal love, which charms the entire world. My heart now desires to become a woman. I yearn to enjoy Myself as a woman. ”

   As the Lord thought in this way, His heart approached itself. From the sweetness of His heart came bliss and from the bliss came Himself, manifested in a second form, a female form of transcendental bliss that could experience the direct perception of Himself.

   At that time a goddess, whose form was nectar, whose fair complexion was like a host of lightning flashes, and who was decorated with glittering ornaments, appeared from the Lord’s left side. She is known as Radha, who is half of Krsna’s body, and who is the mistress of all potencies.
8. Tamoharadasa says :

   Apr 18, 2007 at 5:36 pm

   Some time back, when “Ask a GBC” was a feature of the website, I enquired as to the position of Jagadananda Pandita relative to Satyabhama Devi, as I had heard that he was her expansion, or the like. Replies to this inquiry from our dear Godbrothers noted that there was no such relation as they knew of. Further to this, I am including the following quotes recently appearing elsewhere;

   kenavantara-bhedena bhedam kurvanti satvatah
   satyabhama-prakasho?€?pi jagadananda-panditah

   Devotees make no inner distinction between Satyabhama and Jagadananda Pandit. (Gaura-ganoddesha-dipika 51)

   Jagadananda Pandit is the very life of the Lord. He is known everywhere as being a manifestation of Satyabhama.
   (Chaitanya Charitamrita 1.10.29)

   As it is also stated that Swami Visnupriya Devi, second wife of Viswambhara, is an incarnation of Satyabhama Devi, she in turn being the appearance of Radharani within the Dwarka context, then apparently Jagadananda Panditji is a partial expansion of Satybhama Devi? Any comments from the devotees would be appreciated, especially Sivarama Swami, who I have the impression is learned in these topics.

   I am thoroughly delighted and enchanted by the pastimes of Srimati Visnupriya Devi and Jagadananda, both. Swami Srimati Visnupriya Devi’s marriage to Viswambhara is arguably the single most ecstatic pastime of the Lord, period.

   Jaya prabhus! HKHR.

   Tamoharadasa
9. Caitanya candrodaya dasa says :

   Apr 26, 2007 at 8:17 am

   Prabhus,

   There seems to be a need to provide some sufficient evidence as to identity of Jagadananda Pandit especially in relation to the identity of Sri Vishnupriya devi. Both persons are very intimately related to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. However both are in such a different mood, especially considering later Caitanya caritamrita Antya lila pastimes of Lord Caitanya with Jagadananda and Gadadhara Gosvami.

   Also it was claimed that both are incarnate of the same person in Krishnalila. This apparent contradiction should not be misunderstood and should be seen in the light of sastric praman, which does not leave room for such confusion: There is a need at first to evaluate source of information that is often quoted as a sastric praman in this regard– Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika: Please consider the following self qualifying statement from Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika: vilokyanyani sadhunam mathuraudra-nivasinam gaudiyanam api mukhan nisamya sva-manisaya vivicyamreditah kaiscit kaiscit tani likhamy aham namna sri-paramananda-dasah sevita-sasanah “Srila Svarupa Damodara Gosvami and other great Vaisnava authors have written in their books many descriptions of the great associates of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Nityananda, and Lord Advaita.

   These authors have explained that the associates of Lord Caitanya had previously been cowherd boys in Vrndavana during ancient times of Lord Krsna’s advent, and these authors have informed us of the former names of each of these associates of the Lord. I have carefully considered all these writings, and I have also heard the testimonies of the devotees in Bengal, Orissa, and Mathura. Collecting all this evidence, I, Paramananda dasa, write this book describing the previous life of the associates of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu” Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika 5 Here the author confirms that he gets information from different sources. Also he confirms that his information is not always a “prime/ firsthand source” but partially a hearsay.

   Then Paramananda dasa/KKp/ goes on to describe Pancatattva as non different from Krsna and Caitanya Mahaprabhu and he forms a basis to his conclusions on the words of Svarupa Damodara himself, which author himself uses as pramana, ‘pancatattvamakam krishnam’ – we should do the same with the recorded words of Sri Jagandananda quoted here later on. Important to note that when describing other personalities in Caitanya lila Pramananda dasa would not always quote one view, but often a difference of views that were current at the time and will not always insist on it being conclusive. About Vallabhacarya he writes without a conclusion: purasij janako raja mithiladhipatir mahan adhuna vallabhacaryo bhismako’pi ca sammatah “The same person who was Maharaja Janaka, the king of Mithila, appeared during Lord Caitanya’s pastimes as Vallabhacarya.

   Some differ from this view, and say that Vallabhacarya was an incarnation of Maharaja Bhismaka.” Its important to realize that this clearly confirms that Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika is a compilation of views and personal realizations, not a conclusive tattva dipika, such as dipikas of Sri Jiva Goswamipada for example, and should not be used in this way. For example author even allows in a way to disagree with Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself: vibhisano yah prag asid ramacandra-puri smrtah uvacato gaura-harir naitad ramasya karanam jatila radhika-svasruh karyato’visad eva tam ato mahaprabhur bhiksa-sankocadi tato’karot “The person named Ramacandra Puri in Lord Caitanya’s pastimes had previously remembered/been Vibhisana. “Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself did not accept that Ramacandra Puri was the incarnation of Vibhisana, Mahaprabhu himself said that Ramacandra Puri was the empowered incarnation of Srimati Radharani’s mother-in-law Jatila.” Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika 9 It is almost as if devotees at the time were discussing it or trying to assume/reverse engineer/regress identity to previous lilas to then present pastimes, and Lord Caitanya corrected them by an appropriate comparison instead of a wrong one. It appears that they were doing it a lot otherwise and that it was a very common thing- to discuss others identity in this way. So here is a possible source of identity misunderstanding and mix-up and evidence to it.

   Whereas Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika by Kavi Karnapura/ Paramananda dasa can be used to support the conclusive vaisnava philosophy is proved by the fact that Srila Prabhupada used to quote Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika in his Bhaktivedanta Purports, following his spiritual master. However realisations and descriptions that appear in Sri Caitanya caritamrita and other direct sources are much more consistent and a free from duality, as they have been recorded and transmitted almost first hand and there is no mix of hearsay and truth, Caitanya caritamrita is a conclusive truth itself and is the prime source of knowledge about Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. If one chooses to find contradictions in sastras or as in this case with hearsay collective records (for whatever motive one has to do that remains a secret to me) one has to put first preference to primary sources and in this case words of Srila Krishnadasa Kaviraja Goswami should never be questioned. Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami, is the principal work on the life and teachings of Sri Krsna Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Its clearly and conclusively described in Adi lila and in Antya lila, that Jagadananda Pandit was a svarupa of Satyabhama. Of course it also means that he was in the same challenging mood as Satyabhama i.e. in terms of sringara-rasa vicara “jealous anger that arose only in the heart of Satyabhama and not in the heart of any other queen.”.

   Caitanya caritamrita Adi lila states: pandita jagadananda prabhura prana-rupa loke khyata yenho satyabhamara svarupa “Pandita Jagadananda, the sixth branch of the Caitanya tree, was celebrated as the life and soul of the Lord. He is known to have been of a svarupa of Satyabhama.” See more on that from the mouth of Lord Caitanya and from Jagadananda Pandit himself later. On the topic of nitya siddhas amsas: Vishnupriya dasi is not a nitya siddha, just as Radha herself is not a nitya siddha. The concept of nitya – siddha does not apply to such a level as Laksmi or personal sakti potency of Krishna herself. One also have to be very careful as not to subscribe to a mayavada concept of atma. One should not contradict Prabhupada when he states that Jagadananda was taking part in the pastimes in the houses of Chandrashekhara and Srivasa and — thus was very near to Vishupriya house, she is a completely different person and in a different mood of relationships with Gauranga.

   Its safer and in accordance with acaryas & sastra to consider Visnupriya to be shakti tattva of the Lord, Bhu shakti if only as metaphor as in Sri Gaura Ganodesa Dipika , but more to the point of tattva, Lords personal – navadha-bhakti svarupa shakti herself ie. Hladini shakti that is surcharged with samvit, as described by Srila Bhaktivinda Thakura in his Jaiva Dharma. See quote below: So Jagadananda Pandit is Satyabhama-svarupa Caitanya caritamrita. Adi.1.21 (which can also be understood as “in the nature or mood that of Satyabhama” especially considering discussions in premavivarta and in Caitanya caritamrita Antya 17 as contrasting with Gadadhara Goswamis mood) and Vishnupriya devi is shakti tattva of Krsna – navadha-bhakti svarupa herself (JD13): To consider Sri Vishnupriya dasi to be an expansion of Satyabhama would be a hearsay that is not supported by primary evidence brought forward. Jaiva Dharma: “Vrajanatha: Which sakti of Sri Gauranga is Sri Visnupriya? Babaji:

   The bhaktas generally refer to her as bhu-sakti. However, in reality she is the samvit potency combined with the essence of hladini. In other words, she is the personified form of bhakti, who has descended to assist Gauranga in His work of spreading sri-nama. Just as Navadvipa-dhama is the personified form (svarupa) of the nine-fold process of devotional service (navadha-bhakti) so Sri Visnupriya is also the svarupa of navadha-bhakti” .JD 13 Its hard to imagine that the two persons Visnupriya and Jagadananda would never see each other ever and they are expansion of the same person and for this reason? Both were present at the same time and place when Lord Caitanya subdued Chandkazi and delivered Jagai and Madhai, time of Srivasanga lilas etc. They lived nearby I guess. Such conclusion as to the two saksad expansions of one soul should not be considered, in the first instance because of lack of shastric evidence, without even going into more philosophical reasons. It also can lead to a mayavadi concept to some degree.

   To make it all a bit more interesting and to understand Jadadanandas own and Gaurangas mood in relation to the Satyabhamas avesa identity in Jagadananda read below passage from Prema-Vivarta by Jagadananda Pandit where he, the author, would confirm that he was not idetifying himself with his “mood” svarupa of Dvarakas queen, Satyabhama, but with his service identity in Vrindavana (PV 2.11.-16): prabhu more hasya kari kaila eka dina dvarakara patesvari tumi ta pravina ami ta bhikhari ati more seva kena kata sata sannyasi paibe ama hena muni bali rekhe dao tomara chalana radha pada dasi ami o katha bolo na amara radhara varna kariyacho curi vraje laye yaba ami tomaya cora dhari ami cai radha pada tumi phela theli dvaraka pathao more ei tomara keli tomara sannyasi giri ami bhala jani modera banciya radha sevibe apani “One day the Lord Caitanya jokingly said to me, “You have been the chief queen of Dvaraka for a long time, and I am just a poor beggar. Why do you serve Me? You can get so many hundreds of renunciants like Myself to serve.” I replied, “Give up Your pretension and deceit. Why don’t You say that I am simply a maidservant engaged at the lotus feet of Srimati Radharani. “You have stolen the lustre of my dear mistress Radharani: hence, You are a thief, and I shall catch You and return You back to the land of Vraja. “My only desire is to serve Srimati Radharani, but You want to send me to far away Dvaraka.

   This is all Your mischievous pastime. Your activities as a renounced sannyasi are only too well-known to me. In fact, You just want to deceive and deprive us while You serve the lotus feet of Radharani all by Yourself.” As I have said before both primary sources on gaura-lila e.g. Caitanya ‘ bhagavata and Caitanya ‘ caritamria do not seem to support the suggestion that Visnupriya was ever in the mood of Satyabhama or is saksad of Satyabhama in the same mood. Rather she was same shakti of the saktiman – Gauranga Himself, Who was at that time not in the mood of Sri Radha. If one insists that Visnupriya is Satyabhama and nobody else ‘ well, I can not see any urgency or spiritual need to resolve such unsubstantial or surface contradiction or should I say, not real contradiction. “Not real” in the sense that such contradictions even if accepted as part of a sastric view will not improve quality of ones personal spiritual life and service to Srila Prabhupada and to his/her manifested/living spiritual master.

   But what is the sastric evidence to such a statement anyhow? It is when my spiritual master was compiling Srila Prabhupada Lilamrita, there was often an apparent need to check and double check evidence given by the disciples and friends about Prabhupada, a lot of effort went into it, checking everyone’s story trying to get to the truth. There were and still are some fantastic stories of”‘Prabhupada said” and “Prabhupada wanted” type that just don’t add up and often a product of witnesses prism of imagination or sorry to say imagination only. I myself deal with such stories almost on a daily basis when talking to the second or third generation of followers, some of whom even got an initiation from Prabhupada. Somehow fantastic is more attractive then real and takes over the true perspective, get stuck in the mind and a trail track to the truth is lost.

   Some of hearsays even made it to print or some other forms of evidence. But of course the prime source: Lilamrita records of Prabhupada’s preaching is very objective and can always be referred to if in doubt, and you often you better be. Similarly, the evidence about identity of persons in Caitanya lila should not relay on recorded colloquial sources, but should be based on prime and first hand sastric evidence as quoted above. Its often happens that when this evidence is gathered with a proper perspective the matter becomes crystal clear. I’m praying at the lotus feet of my spiritual master and Srila Prabhupada and all Vaisnavas devotees that no offence is causes by the conclusive study and that the question is finally put to a resolution.

   Your servant, Caitanya candrodaya dasa
10. Phalini devi dasi says :

    Feb 2, 2016 at 3:19 pm

    Dear Maharajas and Prabhus, Somewhere or other, I got the idea that Satyabhama is Srimati Radharani, and that She has appeared in Dvaraka to help Lord Dvaradadhisa with His pastimes. Can anyone substantiate this? Thank you all. Your servant, Phalini devi dasi