By Karuna Dharini Dasi
Due to the tragic death of Subuddhi Raya prabhu, our New Dwaraka community is suffering the shock and grief for the three weeks since his passing. Subuddhi was initiated by Srila Prabhupada in Mayapur in 1976 and he was a carpenter and repair man for the temple. Subuddhi had been to war in Viet Nama and was discharged as a conscientious objector. He lived in a van adjacent to one of the temple buildings for twenty-five years.
When a city inspector told Subuddhi he had only two weeks to move his van he became very indecisive and depressed. Devotees did many things to cheer him up, to help him make a smooth transition to a new location. Somehow he was unable to adjust. His life ended in a confrontation with the police in which he pulled out a gun on police and they fired at him. We believe Subuddhi was possibly suffering from depression coupled with intoxication.
Subuddhi was well loved by many devotees here. His strong devotion for serving Sri-Sri Rukmini-Dwarakadisha was known to all. He especially liked to sing the afternoon kirtan to the Deities. I am writing this article not to discuss the details of his situation or actions, but to offer necessary knowledge to all devotee readers of Danadavats about depression and other mental illnesses which we find occurring in members of ISKCON. Undesirable consequences as in the case of Subuddhi prabhu can sometimes be avoided when we become more informed.
Finding NAMI
Two years ago I experienced chaos and heavy sadness due to a relative coming down with a severe mental illness. It was suggested that I attend NAMI classes. NAMI, the National Alliance for Mental Illness, sounded like a strange group to me, so at first I was reluctant to do so.
But I was desperate, severe mental illness was right in front of me everyday in a person who is very close and dear to me. The twelve or so weekly meetings I attended were held in a hospital across the street from the temple.
Eventually I could understand the meetings and the experts who conducted them to be yet another facet of the help Krishna extends to me throughout my life, in good times and bad. The meetings consist of family members of mentally ill persons volunteering to teach essential info to those who are new to mental illness.
An added bonus was every evening when I crossed the street and entered back into our Hare Krishna community I felt like I had some new tools for understanding myself and the people who come to us. I took a look around at the wonderful, amazing variety of people who pledge themselves to Krishna. It put me in awe; Krishna certainly carries what we lack, preserves what we have. Some of us appear to have a little bit less to preserve than others, but the mercy is available to every soul. Krishna’s mercy is His most amazing quality, as described in The Prayers of the Personified Vedas.
The following is a brief summary of info I learned in those NAMI classes as it may relate to any devotee who associates with or is the temple manager of a person (or persons) who have mental illness.
Did You Know?
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, or DSM, lists thousands of types of mental illnesses and combinations of them. Schizophrenia and Bipolar Disorder are only two of many major categories. One in every one hundred human beings will manifest either of these two.
Simple Depression is much more common. One man in ten and one woman in five will have a serious episode of Depressive Disorder before they are forty. They typically experience six to eight episodes in one lifetime.
In managing a temple or just in working with devotees, it will be helpful to know the symptoms of mental illness. Here is a general list:
Constant tension and nervousness, irritability or abusiveness, over reaction to things, indifference or inflexible stubbornness, irrational statements, obsession with own pursuits, inflated self-concept, uncontrollable crying, hyper-vigilance, disinterest in sex or hyper-sexuality, indecisiveness, wish to be withdrawn or isolated, obsession with religion or spirituality, previous or current dependence on intoxicants. (-NAMI general list)
Not all symptoms may manifest in one afflicted person, but if there are more than a just a few it is likely that the person has some form of mental illness.
(warning: Using this list alone cannot constitute a skilled professional diagnosis.)
How Does it Feel?
A description of the experience of mental illness written by a recovered patient:
“There is a curious feeling of being “out of step.” My family is all around me, but I am removed, distant, as though watching them from far away. I feel disconnected; odd. Dependable habits are breaking down. I can’t go to sleep. Why do I feel a sense of impending doom? I keep sighing. I only know deep sadness. Why can’t I decide what to do? What has happened to my old reliable self? How can I leave behind these terrible fears? What is the use of my living?” (quote from NAMI member)
Certainly when one is in such a debilitated condition any pressure on them or criticism will throw them over the deep end, push them toward intoxication or suicide. They are sometimes referred to as “thin-skinned” by the rest of us. The cold hard facts are that mentally ill people are the most likely candidates for suicide: 13% of those with schizophrenia and 15% of persons with bi-polar die from suicide. The rate is 20% for those with untreated depressive disorder. (Gotleb and Hammen, 2002)
Intoxication, Illicit Sex and Spirituality
What I learned at the NAMI meetings increased my appreciation for the four regulative principles: in particular no intoxication, no illicit sex, and no gambling. The mentally ill, left untreated, are more likely to indulge in various vices.
The mentally ill have a very practical reason for intoxicating themselves, something psychologists call “self-medicating.” The purpose is to blot out their extremely disturbing feelings of disorder, to take an edge off a terrifying emotional roller coaster. Especially at the onset of the illness, the sudden rejection from society and family due to the symptoms of their illness makes them want to do anything to forget.
For this reason psychiatric professionals have named this problem “dual-diagnosis,” because there are often two serious illnesses intertwined here which are almost impossible to distinguish from one another, mental illness and toxic addiction. Each has to be treated independent of the other in order to unravel them. Dual-diagnosis is among the most difficult to discover and treat. There are many rehab facilities which address this issue in particular.
Another common trait among some of the mentally ill is hyper-sexuality. Due to “hypomania,” (an intense manic mood that may follow depression), they often become overly friendly with anyone. With no barriers, they are everyone’s acquaintance but no one’s friend. Almost inadvertently a number of sex partners are attracted to them.
One more quite common symptom of mental illness is uncontrolled gambling and or shopping sprees. The person falls into enormous debt. He or she, in a state of mania, realizes only a few days or weeks later that the things purchased are unwanted, and panic and depression take over. These obsessive sprees also include casino going or purchase of lotto tickets.
Vices paired with “obsession for religion or spiritual practice” are a combination we have seen over the years in new members. Renunciation and religious conversion give quick relief from mental suffering. ISKCON has become a shelter, not for just the average person recovering from bad habits, but also for persons with mental illness.
An individual’s mental disorder may temporarily appear to be something mystical. It may sometimes even resemble an advanced spiritual consciousness. However, severe episodes of the illness eventually ensue, which are very confusing and painful to experience for themselves and the devotees around them. Based on this misunderstanding there may episodes which include shouting, violence, etc. Anyone who has ever lived in or managed a temple has experienced at least some of this.
Treatment
The very good news is that most mental illnesses are treatable. After a quality professional diagnosis the patient is prescribed two courses of treatment, prescription medication and therapy.
It is very important to understand that medications have come a very long way from what they were just fifteen years ago. The days of lithium and shock treatments for people in the loony bin are in the distant past and all kinds of “second generation” medications are available which are more effective with much fewer side effects.
Another therapy is TMS. One very nice devotee I know was diagnosed with a very difficult depressive disorder. The meds did not work for her. She was prescribed TMS, or Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation. A hand held brain stimulator emits very subtle vibration into the right and left cortex. After just six weeks of small regular doses of this therapy her depression has been abated for several years and she is back to her regular devotional service.
Compliant and Non-Compliant
At first persons who have suffered from mental illness may choose to accept treatment but the real test comes when it is seen whether or not the person remains “compliant,” or willing to continue treatment.
The statistics show that 50% of all diagnosed who undergo treatment eventually become “non-compliant.” They will not continue with treatment. Often they were not given any personal care from an “advocate,” a person who was willing to painstakingly guide them through the several critical recovery years after the onset of severe mental illness. This time period requires finding a good psychiatrist, adjusting medication, and quality counseling.
Mental illness is typically caused by genetics but it is also triggered by environment and trauma. There are some who do not respond well to the recovery process. Sadly, this is the reason so many mentally ill persons are on the streets, homeless and abandoned.
The compliant have a very good percentage of nearly full recovery and ability to function well in human society and in the workplace (with some vocational rehabilitation) for the remainder of their life.
Accessing Resources
If a new devotee or congregation member exhibits a number of the symptoms listed previously, they should be directed to get help as soon as possible. Qualified devotee therapists and psychiatrists are usually associated with the congregation of any temple and they can be consulted. Because they are familiar with the situation of what a struggling devotee is and what is expected of him, they can be particularly helpful and personal. They can also help the temple’s management make decisions about what to do and provide valuable resources for alternatives. In our case Mohana devi dasi, (ACBS) has kindly come to hold meetings in New Dwaraka to help us with grief counseling for Subuddhi prabhu. This has been and invaluable service.
Every city has an emergency psychiatric evaluation ward. One of them, located not very far from Los Angeles temple, happens to be the only 24/7 emergency psychiatric hospital in all of Los Angeles County. It is called Exodus. Devotees sometimes bring their fellow devotees there from the temple. I have personally brought two devotees who both received excellent treatment and follow up referrals. Both are servants of the temple and compliant with their meds and therapy. The man who established “Exodus” is very qualified and enthusiastic to help people.
After treatment is established further help is often necessary. “Step Up On Second” or “Step Up on Vine” are examples of successful institutions in Los Angeles established for the purpose of life style/vocational rehabilitation for compliant individuals. They show a very good success rate. The Hollywood branch was recently opened with the promotion and sponsorship of Bill Clinton and Kobe Bryant.
The NAMI classes I have mentioned are for relatives and friends of the mentally ill. They also offer very helpful informative classes for the mentally ill themselves. These classes are not taught by psychiatrists, they are taught by persons who have family members who are mentally ill. The dedication, sacrifice and compassion of the teachers is very impressive.
Temple managers are not alone to help individuals who are struggle a bit more than the average guy in the ocean of material existence. We only have to see what is available, what is out there for these people, and temporarily try to re-direct them away from the temple and to the proper institutions, so they can get the kind of professional mental health care they need.
Seniors, Juniors and Vaisnava youth
There is a minority of older members in ISKCON who are undiagnosed and dangerous to themselves or others. You can find them at almost every ISKCON center. Perhaps they never took care of their illness because psychiatric assistance was frightening to their generation. Or they came from the sixties when drugs were a bit more rampant so they are more likely to mask their illnesses. Another problem is stigma. No one wants to seek help if they will be dismissed as a crazy or a lazy or a demon.
And then there is the young new bhakta who has pledged himself to ISKCON but it is later discovered that he is an undiagnosed, mentally unstable as well. In many cases he has not even a clue as to what is wrong.
Mental illness is hereditary. Those devotees who have a mental illness will pass it on to approximately one out of every four of their off spring.
Among Vaisnava youth we have seen various kinds of mental imbalance which explains some of the strong tendency for intoxication. Statistics show that youth (early twenties) is the age that a person is most likely to show symptoms of a mental disorder.
Whatever the age, Srila Prabhupada’s mercy is great, fine, personal and powerful. He knew the process of chanting Hare Krishna and engaging in devotional service would control our raging minds and senses and heal us and make us whole. All glories to his absolute guidance! I can personally say he has saved me everyday of my life.
But what about sincere devotees who have fallen into such a mental cloud that they cannot even rise out of bed in the morning to chant the Holy Names? He wrote, “Hoping this meets you in good health,” at the close of every letter knowing well that health problems, mental or physical, would compound our suffering.
Recently we held a festival for his disciple Subuddhi Raya prabhu, with a fire yajna and kirtan. When the assembled devotees joined together in unison in a chorus of Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Rama Rama, Hare Hare, their grieving hearts gave vent to a marvelous sound vibration that filled the auspicious Holy Dhama of New Dwaraka in every direction.
“Oh my Lord! Persons who chant the Holy Name of Your Lordship are far, far advanced in spiritual life, even if born in families of dog eaters. Such chanters have undoubtedly performed all kinds of austerities and sacrifices, bathed in all sacred rivers and finished all scriptural studies.”
-Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.33.8
Srila Prabhupada said that no matter how materially sane, a person who does not wish to put a stop to the suffering condition of his material existence cannot be called a perfect human being. Whereas a devotee who even once feelingly chants the holy name of Krishna, no matter what his condition, is the best man in any group. We should do our best to save such best men.
Conclusion
This humble article has summarized just some of the ideas and resources offered by NAMI education programs. NAMI has offices in nearly every city in the U.S. as well as some international contacts. Short of that, please visit the official NAMI website or contact a representative of NAMI to study information that may help with the mental health issues that so often challenge us.
Thank you.
In some ways, this is quite a brave endeavour to write about – of all things – mental health, within ISKCON, of all places. Is this a taboo subject now seeing the light of day?
It may be tempting for us to think of certain instances of mental anguish being disguised as Krishna conscious spiritual advancement or above average self-control and discipline, that bore influence of one form or another. How many times have we heard the expression, “Get off the mental platform?”
It has been some years now since we heard from our once very prolific commentator here on Dandavats – Suresh Prabhu. He admitted to suffering from chronic depression, and took to yoga to help alleviate some symptoms. His perspectives were always useful, and he gave the readers an insight into dealing with his condition from a Krishna conscious angle. I wonder if he will resume his comments.
I have encountered murderers in the run, drug addicts who try to wean off drugs too soon and suffer withdrawal symptoms, individuals who are plagued by subtle bodies and so on, who all sought relief and shelter within ISKCON, with motivated or good intent. We had an open door policy – not fool proof – that allowed for a whole range of ‘mental’ sufferers to join us and live in ashramas, that we were unaware of.
God knew whom we shared an ashrama with. There are many stories of how ashrama inmates had risky encounters. I am sure that nowadays these risks are minimised. As part of our increasingly ‘professional’ approach to managing ISKCON, these issues will be dealt with appropriately.
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.
Krishna Himself describes that 4 classes of individuals approach Him to take shelter of His Lotus Feet: Those desirous of wealth, those who are afflicted, those who are curious, and those who are seeking higher Truth. Those who are afflicted are many! If they come to Krishna, then they are considered pious souls as well. Our true identity is not this body, and not the transient mind either. Misidentification with matter is the con-fusion that binds us to this world, and it is cemented with desire for sense gratification, lording over matter.
Many of the 60’s types who came to KC were survivors of acid trips, drug abuse, and mental illness. Srila Prabhupad gave hope, meaning, and devotional service to these. He called it converting “hippies into happies”. While this may sound like a joke, it was no joke! His Divine Grace brought out the very best in individuals. Some of the finest leaders in KC’s early days may be counted amongst these.
Now, the topic of this article is somewhat different. And, the author is compassionately relating the extreme condition when suicide may follow prolonged mental illness. Her efforts are very much to be appreciated. But, truly, we are carried along on the waves of Krishna’s energy. While we may mechanistically try to solve the barriers of the mind, the seeds of such karma may have their origins in the distant past. Karma is the law of nature, and it is Krishna’s. I genuinely applaud the intentions of Karuna Dharini dd. The dilemma of Subuddhi could surely have been handled differently. Hindsight (looking back) is 20:20. So, one can try to learn from this and go forward, recognizing the needs of others, and avoid the selfishness that creates a bubble of illusion around each of us. Let us therefore become more aware of the needs of devotees, being the servant of the servant, and try to bring affectionate care in our dealings with devotees.
Sincerely, Pusta Krishna das
Yes, mental illness is not understood very well in ISKCON often devotees quote a 40 year old quote from Prabhupada that condemns psychiatrists and mental health professionals however, understanding mental illness has come a long way in the last 40 years
Srila Prabhupada – Psychiatrists are humbug, all humbug. They cannot help. Best thing is to be engaged in continuously chanting and hearing Sankirtana, that will cure anyone of mental disease. (Prabhupada. “Letter to Upendra”. February 19, 1972) –
This letter was sent 4I years ago in relation to the TP wife in Melbourne Australia when she had a mental breakdown. We went a got her out of the mental asylum, sat her in front of the Deities and got her to chant Hare Krishna. Unfortunately she was gone within a few hours never to be seen again.
Another time the devotee Sangana dasa was also put in a mental institution and to quiet his mind and was given an anti psychotic, this gave him stability and when the devotees went to get him, he was stable enough to sit and chant Hare Krishna and became famous for washing pots.
Today I believe those comments by Srila Prabhupada do not apply because in some cases the medicine given by psychiatrist can help one perform their devotion service.
We have come a long way in psychiatry over the last 40 years.
It is just like the chanting of Hare Krishna alone will not cure a broken leg similarly the chanting alone will not cure a diseased brain, just like the broken leg needs a cast; the brain substance may need an anti-depressant or anti-psychotic as in the case of Sangana dasa and even myself over the last few years. Today there are also many good psychiatrist and some are devotees so they are all not humbug
Hare Krishna, Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
I am shocked that someone would make such an offensive statement on Dandavats.com saying that Srila Prabhupada’s instructions are not relevant today. It shows a great lack of understanding regarding how Srila Prabhupada preached and how to apply that preaching in a practical way. In a multitude of places Srila Prabhupada also condemns technology and industry, and calls hospitals and modern medicine “a place for the demons.” But with our common sense we can understand that technology, industry and medicine are also humbug but often we use them in Krishna’s service or in a specific case to help a devotee. There are many instances when Srila Prabhupada personally told a disciple to go to a doctor and get medicine. A blind uncle is better than no uncle at all. Sometimes the spiritual master gives what may appear as contradictory instructions but they must be understood with intelligence.
So yes. Srila Prabhupada is absolutely correct when he says that psychiatrists are humbug. Most of them are. Unfortunately, you have tried to use an example that by following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions you took a devotee out of a mental asylum and it actually hurt her because she only chanted for a few hours and then left never to be seen again. It would take more time and space than are allowed here to find out what really happened and then discuss at length as to whether they were actually following Srila Prabhupada’s instructions intelligently and whether the devotee’s ultimate benefit far outweighed any temporary relief. There are so many things that could be discussed. But just the mood of trying to prove Srila Prabhupada’s instructions as inappropriate is an offense and you should apologize immediately.
Generally when Srila Prabhupada spoke of psychiatry he was referring to Freudian. But the point is still valid. Ultimately Krishna is the only doctor and any kind of treatment whether it be for a broken leg or broken heart is worthless without Krishna consciousness.
THAT is the point Srila Prabhupada is trying to teach us time and time again. This entire material world is just so many zeros and without the one Krishna in front they are all worthless. Hare Krishna. Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Yes this only clearly proves my point off how mental illness is misunderstood in ISKCON.
My point is clear, one must practise Krishna Consciousness in a practical way and I believe my example of the chanting alone will not heal a broken leg is simple enough to understand. This also means that to chant Hare Krishna alone and ignore medical help for mental illness is also absurd and foolish in todays world! The fact is however, one should chant Hare Krishna enthusiastically under all conditions however, when possible, one should also seek help to keep the material body healthy, of course doctors are not going to help us on our death bed, only the chanting of Hare Krishna can do that.
The fact is our medical profession HAS come along way since Srila Prabhupada was here and in some cases like this you cannot apply his teachings to all place and circumstance, just like there are many devotees who believe, based on todays evidence, that indeed man did go to the moon and today are sending probes there all the time, are they also offenders and blasphemers?.
I am sorry you have taken offense to my comments however,I have no apology to make, I stand by my comments. All psychiatrists are NOT humbug in todays world, they also, like doctors, can help devotees. As I have said, some doctors and psychiatrists are even devotees! Hare Krishna.
In the service of HDG Srila Prabhupada, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
I must be one of those demons that Nama Prabhu speaks of when he talks about hospitals and modern medicine. In my opinion, you have to be clear about physical health and the use of healers. If you subscribe to homeopathy or Ayur vedic treatments, that is a choice you personally make. Surely, you must know that Srila Prabhupad and so many others used medicines and treatments of those fields. His Divine Grace also would use western medicine, even surgery, when necessary, to sustain his life and his service. Prabhu, you do not know everything.
As a practicing physician and surgeon for over 30 years, you cannot imagine how much suffering I have encountered, and have been able to help. In my field, trauma to the limbs and the spine, injuries to soft tissues (skin, tendons, nerves), and infections (life and limb threatening, of which I have two patients in the hospital now), are all worthy pursuits. It is so easy for those who are healthy and currently free from severe pain, to say “humbug” to the science and people who work to alleviate pain for others, and place the well-being of their patients above their own. Most such people who cry “humbug” are themselves enjoyers of the illusory energy.
Psychiatry is a field of medicine. It involves psychology when dealing with neurotic behavior, but it can involve medications when serious depression and psychosis occur. While not everyone is fully versed in that field, including myself, my eyes are not closed to the reality of mental illness. Is it simply bad karma? Sure, but do you have enough compassion to help others, both physically and spiritually. If you have the capacity and expertise, then you must help. If you don’t have the capacity or expertise, then please do not denigrate the sincere efforts of others to alleviate suffering. Prahlad was paradukhadhuki, he felt suffering for the suffering of others. While the chanting of the Holy Names is the ultimate path back to Home, if you try to make light of the physical and mental suffering of others, then you might one day find your self the recipient of such unconcerned people when you your self are suffering. It will come back to you, as it must. Even the Bible says that those who show compassion for others, will receive compassion.
It is safer, if you have the heart, to err on the side of being compassionate and caring toward those who are less fortunate. After all, fortune is in the hands of the Supreme Lord. Pusta Krishna das
Often Srila Prabhupada spoke according to time, place and circumstance. Over the last 40 years the world has changed and some of the things Srila Prabhupada said back then cannot be applied today, for example, psychiatry back in Srila Prabhupada’s day was influence strongly by Freudian ideas who Srila Prabhupada criticized.
Śrīla Prabhupāda says, “By speculating on some shock that may or may not have occurred in childhood, one will never discover the root disease…. He [Freud] did not know the basic principle of spiritual understanding, which is that we are not this body…. We are different from this body, and we are transmigrating from one body to another.”
Today most psychiatrists also reject the outdated Freudian ideas on shock therapy in favour of chemical medicine that acts on the brain substance that is damaged due to trauma. This was the field of psychiatry I was only referring to. Back in the 1970s this treatment was in its infancy. This was my point in my original post. Srila Prabhupada never commented on that form of psychiatry that is so prominent in today’s 21st Century world of psychiatry.
In regards to the girl we sat in front of the Altar and got her to chant Hare Krishna, frankly for that time, place and circumstance it was the best thing to do and Srila Prabhupada’s letter back then was applicable however, you cannot apply that letter to all time, place and circumstance.
Of course, one who is sick, be it the biological body or brain, should also chant Hare Krishna along side the medicine they are receiving. This was the most important point Srila Prabhupada was making. As already said, in the case of Sangana dasa, the anti psychotic medication worked and helped him practically engage in devotional service on his pathway to eventually be fully dependant on Krishna. Here are some interesting quotes –
Jayadvaita Swami – “What Prabhupada said sometimes differed. Sometimes he spoke for the benefit of an individual, sometimes for the world. Sometimes what he said was for the moment, sometimes forever. So as well as we can we need to recognize, in what Prabhupada said, not only the content but the intent”.
Continued next post
Jayadvaita Swami – “Srila Prabhupada responds to the questions of specific individuals. Though again the philosophy is always the same, we cannot assume that how he speaks it to one person is how he would speak it to all. With one inquirer he might be stern, with another sympathetic, with one subtle, with another deliberately simple. We’d be rash to cite one instance as evidence of how he would respond in all instances”.
Jayadvaita Swami – “What Prabhupada said sometimes differed. Sometimes he spoke for the benefit of an individual, sometimes for the world. Sometimes what he said was for the moment, sometimes forever. So as well as we can we need to recognize, in what Prabhupada said, not only the content but the intent”.
Jayadvaita Swami – “Srila Prabhupada is again addressing a particular person, in a particular time and circumstance. And this time his words are sent in a sealed envelope, not spoken in a public assembly. His words, therefore, may be intended for many people or only for one. They may give instructions meant to apply always and to everyone or only to a special circumstance and one recipient”. All these quotes are found here – http://info.vedabase.com/index.php?main=home&content=whattomake
Srila Prabhupada’s main point in all his preaching is we finish up our selfish business in this material world and return back home back to Godhead. To help us in our devotional service sometimes we have to accept the help of the medical industry, some devotees have had heart bypass surgery by the ‘meat eating’ karmis. I remember some years ago a devotee was also offered psychiatric help but was put off by devotees saying that no meat eating nonsense karmi can ever help a devotee, only Krishna can help you, he is the ONLY real doctor!
Such immature fanatical nonsense fundamentalism will only keep ISKCON devotees, who need medical help, just suffer in the ignorance of mental illness. Krishna helps those who help themselves.
Hare Krishna, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
My apologies to Gaura Gopala das and Pusta Krsna das for not being more clear in my reply. Yes. You are both right. We should not foolishly neglect the proper care of our body and mind. And I also want to applaud Karuna Dharini dasi for her very nice article. It was not may intent to give the impression that Srila Prabhupada did not want us to use common sense and not go to a doctor if we needed medical treatment. Of course, it is much more rare that a devotee will need psychiatric medication but if that is absolutely necessary then we may have to take that course of action. We can only pray to Krishna for proper guidance. I am sorry that I did not get my point across properly. That was my fault.
Of course, the real solution is for the devotee community to develop such a loving, compassionate and caring atmosphere that that along with our chanting of Hare Krishna and reading Srila Prabhupada’s books that will heal all our emotional ills. In most cases, mental illness and depression is caused by loneliness and a feeling of not being loved (of course that is a generalization). Only rarely is medication necessary. That is why Srila Prabhupada was so effective in treating so many young boys and girls who were crazy in so many ways and bringing them back to sanity just by the power of his love for Krishna and the chanting of the Maha-mantra. We should never underestimate the power of the holy names when heard from the lips of a pure devotee.
Yet, we have to be careful when approaching any secular treatment. Even my doctor when checking my prostate told me I needed more sex life. And many therapists will not encourage devotional activities looking on them as cultish or religious fanatacism and actually encourage a neophyte devotee to give up his strict devotional practices for a more moderate practice. However Gaura Gopala is right when he says that the psychiatric community has changed considerably over the last forty years. So it is very encouraging that Gaura Gopal has pointed out that now there are devotee therapists and that Pusta Krsna is there to help devotees with their medical ills.
Still we have to take seriously Srila Prabhupada’s concerns as he pointed out in this conversation:
Prabhupada: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said — he admitted, both the psychiatrists — that “You are not treating the real person who is diseased.” I gave him the example, that “You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that ‘The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.’ But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver.” So our propaganda is to give the bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuntha. That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? “Let him starve.”
Rupanuga: They are like the cheating mechanics.
Prabhupada: That’s all. All these medical men, psychiatrists, they are simply painting the body of the car. That’s all.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara — Atlanta, February 28, 1975
So in conclusion, let us listen carefully to these words of our beloved Srila Prabhupada:
“The great endeavor the mahatma undertakes to execute devotional service is more intense than the ordinary man’s voluntary acceptance of excessive pains and troubles to maintain his family and home. The struggle for maintaining family and relatives is illusion, or maya. Hence it is truly distressing. By contrast, the difficulties one accepts in serving the Supreme Lord are transcendental, and therefore they are a source of sublime bliss. Moreover, a person who serves the Supreme Lord automatically serves his family. But the opposite is not true: serving the family is not equivalent to serving the Lord. All mahatmas agree on this point. Not only does the person who serves the Supreme Lord serve his relatives, but he also serves the entire world of moving and nonmoving living beings. Thus service to Lord Krsna is the prime cause of world peace and harmony.
The mahatmas are always ready to render such service to the Lord with great determination. In this regard His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura once made this comment in a lecture:
‘The neophyte Vaisnava devotees’ ringing the bell even once during worship of the Deity of the Supreme Lord is a million times more valuable, spiritually and otherwise, than the charitable fruitive workers building many hospitals, feeding thousands of the poor, or building homes, or even the empirical philosophers’ Vedic studies, meditation, austerities, and penances.’
The mahatmas have shown the perfect path of charity: devotional service to the Lord. If anyone ignores this path and instead builds hospitals, his effort to help humanity is a mere pretense. Humanity can never reap any permanent advantage from such activities. Indeed, the number of patients only increases along with the number of hospitals. And as for feeding the poor, this will never eradicate poverty, but encourage it. Frankly speaking, we are not against opening hospitals or feeding the poor, or any other such humanitarian service. But what we have learned from our beloved spiritual master is that when devotional service to the Lord is neglected, every other activity is illusory and futile. Without genuine devotional service, even opening hospitals and feeding the poor in the name of Lord Krsna is futile. Spiritual groups that do not strictly follow in Lord Caitanya’s line cannot comprehend this because they do not wish to abide by the instructions of the mahatmas. They do not follow Lord Caitanya’s injunction to be “more humble than a blade of grass.” If they were that humble, they would give up their pride in being the doer of good deeds, the wisest person, the most devoted, and so on.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => RTW 2.10: The Supreme Lord: Lover of His Devotees
Srimad Bhagavatam, 1.2.8:
“The occupational activities a man performs according to his own position are only so much useless labor if they do not provoke attraction for the message of the Personality of Godhead.”
Second Canto, 2.1.11-12:
“O King, constant chanting of the holy name of the Lord after the ways of the great authorities is the doubtless and fearless way of success for all…”
“What is the value of a prolonged life which is wasted, inexperienced by years in this world? Better a moment of full consciousness, because that gives one a start in searching after his supreme interest.”
The comments of GauraGopala and Nama Prabhu are both very much thoughtful and appreciated. The point here is that care must be considered for a bhakta suffering from true mental illness. Severe depression and also psychosis have signs that are readily recognized by someone trained in that area. You cannot become an expert in every area, and even Nama Prabhu went through a rectal exam to see if the organ had a rock hard feel or masses that might indicate cancer. While we all appreciate that certain physical diseases can lead one to death, so too mental illness can lead to severe dysfunction and even suicide. Many years ago in Amsterdam, there was an aspiring bhakta living in the ashrama who used to fall down in front of the Deities in the temple, perhaps in imitation of Lord Chaitanya. Someone in the temple said to him, “if you want to do this, you might as well jump off the roof!” Well, as you might well imagine, that is what happened, and this disturbed person jumped off the temple head first to the cobblestone street below. This may be an extreme example of a psychotic person living in the temple and unable to function normally, but the reaction of the others involved in this incident was exemplary of the ignorance that we may have about such mental illness. While you cannot expect temple devotees to understand mental illness of this magnitude, the temple managers must know their limits of understanding. It can be a mark of true compassion to help someone get the necessary help, rather than precipitate the suicide of a suffering soul. And, please don’t try to speculate on the mental state of that poor person to think that it was a sign of spiritual advancement.
We have all noted over the decades that many psychotic people are attracted to Eastern mysticism. And, the devotees may want to give shelter to such persons, “to make a devotee”. Certainly, ISKCON has changed over the years, but the incidence of schizophrenia is present in about 1% of the population (past and present, and likely into the future as well). Food for thought, for the thoughtful. Pusta Krishna das
Surely, another reason for the “humbug” dismissal of mental help specialists by Srila Prabhupada is because of the usually soul-less mechanistic approach to matters of the human psyche.
With limited knowledge at their disposal, they could at whim, condemn numerous individuals to a lifetime of stringent institutional care translated as imprisonment. A famous candidate for such captivity is the famous Rain-man, about whom a movie was made.
This Rain-man has a remarkable memory and can recall widely diverse information within an instant. His memory would easily be the stuff of our Sruti-dhara devotees, if it were sastric knowledge. Yet, the Rain-man is possibly autistic with an ability to communicate. Otherwise, his aged father has to take care of him. He could have been one of many ‘bright’ captives left in mindless confinement.
In modern times, many mental health specialists search into areas of reincarnation, which leads to the prospect of an existence outside of the physical body. Largely, such professionals still abide by mechanistic frameworks, if only to keep their jobs.
These mechanistic restrictions cause doubt of the integrity of mental analysts. If I remember correctly, there is a passage in the NOI where Srila Prabhupada comments that devotees should not reveal their minds to such people.
A sense of realism will reveal that had not certain devotees revealed their mental problems they would not be treated. If Srila Prabhupada had been aware of the advances made in mental health treatment since the 60’s and 70’s, would he have said something different to what he previously stated? Especially now that devotees are mental health specialists? The answer must be yes.
Why this article is brave is because mental problems are not supposed to happen to devotees are they? So we are ‘taught’… But they can cannot affect pure souls who have vijnana of their selves as separate from the physical body, and have realised their true ego as eternal residents of the spiritual world.
Yet, the ‘other-worldly’ avadhuta behaviour of such souls as Gaura Kishor Dasa Babaji and Vamsi Dasa Babaji, being outside of ‘normal’ conventions would probably present interesting cases for mental specialists. Here Srila Prabhupada would say, “Hands off!”
Ys Kesava Krsna Dasa.
There was a time several decades ago that parents would hire “deprogrammers” to try to get their offspring to reject the unfamiliar life of Krishna conscious monasticism, and take up their “familiar” life in their religious tradition or in the line of material enjoyment. Fortunately, those occurrences are few and far between now. But, we must understand that many people do not understand the reasons for adoption or conversion to Krishna consciousness, from the “expected” life that parents may have had for their children. Also, it was not uncommon for new aspiring bhaktas to reject their families in the process.
These are very complicated issues. And, even amongst the most well adjusted people who come to Krishna consciousness movement, the pendulum toward expecting Krishna to take care of everything may be far from practical. Please understand.
Life is not easy even for the well adjusted. And, many people who come to Krishna nowadays have passed through the trials of material life and intoxication to the extreme. It requires a great deal of sensitivity and experience, both of which are often lacking, to care for these difficult circumstances. Try not to think in terms of “black and white” or maya or Krishna, but rather in shades of gray…hence, be honest and ready to admit that you do not possess the tools, the experience, or the judgement to deal with some of these cases.
I recommend that the local temples try to seek out qualified and sympathetic mental health care providers who are not trying to deprogram individuals from Krishna consciousness, but rather are dedicated to treating the serious mental health issues at hand. This usually does not pertain to neurotic behavior, but rather to serious depression, mania, and psychosis.
BE PRE-EMPTIVE! Plan ahead. Get your people lined up for the day you may need them. Develop the relationships ahead of time. You may save a life or more, and make fine bhaktas out of suffering individuals. That is my opinion, and I hope you will consider it a practical one. You can then take credit for successes, and avoid being instrumental in disastrous failures (see #12 above). Pusta Krishna das
It should be obvious that authorities in ISKCON have to be prepared to handle mental illness issues in a responsible and practical way, as they will come up from time to time. We should not think we are capable or qualified to try to “cure” serious cases, and we should respect the professionals and social services that are available to try to help people who need it.
When I was staying at Berkeley temple in the early 1990s we had a sad, serious case. One devotee from South America was living in the temple but his behavior started becoming more and more strange. He was glaring at some of the women and frightening them. When we spoke to him he was clearly delusional and accused us of having a nuclear bomb under the temple that we were trying to hide from him, and similar incoherent, paranoid things. We contacted his ex-wife in South America who said this had happened to him before which is why she had to separate from him.
Fortunately Hanumat Presaka Swami was visiting at that time and took charge of the situation. We found some free psychiatric services available in Berkeley for such cases and insisted that he started getting professional help. It was clear that was the only thing for us to do. His case was very severe.
Unfortunately, this devotee would not keep his appointments. I drive him a couple of times to see the psychiatrist but he stopped going and refused to go. We told him he could not stay at the temple and we really did our best to help him. For some reason we were not able to get him taken into custody for a 72-hour psychiatric hold. Law enforcement would not do that and starting a court case to get him held for his own protection (conservatorship) was beyond our means and uncertain.
The sad conclusion was that he lived on the streets of Berkeley for some time, could not get the attention and medication he needed, and eventually hung himself.
If there were some way I could have gotten him committed to a psych ward where he could have been given effective drugs, it might have saved his life. At any rate, we could not let him just stay in the temple in that condition and possibly endanger others. I am afraid such cases are not as rare as we might hope, and we should be prepared to deal with them responsibly and in a way approved of by government authorities.
Akruranath das brings up yet another unfortunate case. If I may, it is understood clearly that psychosis (schizophrenia, paranoid schizophrenia and the like) is not treated by psychoanalysis. It is treated if successful with anti-psychotic medication. Similarly, manic depressive disorders are treated with medication. Neurosis is treatable with discussion and counseling and with less dysfunctional patterns of behavior. So, in a nutshell, the most serious mental illnesses are not treatable by your best intentions, even as a bhakta.
These are well-established principles in mental health care.
Again, just as a temple should cultivate the services of a trusted attorney, it would be prudent to search out and thus interview a mental health care provider so that when it is needed, such services are not sought out in desperation, but rather with a clear plan to treat the person. One can only try, and the example given by Akruranath above shows the frustration of failure in trying to help a mentally ill person.
The temple authorities must first and foremost provide a safe and peaceful environment for the simple-hearted and submissive devotees to live and practice in. Major disturbances must be avoided. It might be wise to be clear about who you are inviting into the shelter of the temple, before you do something you might later regret. Tough topic to discuss, but necessary. Things can become violent and ugly and I will avoid discussing such few cases that I am aware of, but you could only shake your head no, not here” if you heard them. While Krishna is our ultimate protector, the devotees as extensions of Krishna’s mercy must be thoughtful to protect those who have established themselves as sane and surrendered souls. Pusta Krishna das
I think Nama Prabhu’s original objection was to outhand dismissal of Srila Prabhupada’s words as not applicable to this day and age. Then Gauragopal Prabhu himself gave some quotes on how to handle such matters more delicately – by trying to reconcile apparent contradictions and putting various instructions in perspective.
The result would be the same – you still do what you think is right but the second approach is certainly less shocking.
The original “humbug” label remains correct, I’m sure we can find examples of psychotherapy being less than useful for devotees, but it’s not true in all current cases just as it wasn’t an absolute dictum back then.
I also propose that we don’t jump to conclusions with regards to relying on Krishna to treat mental conditions. What we think is “better” from our point of view might not look the same to Krishna. We have no idea where these mentally disturbed devotees landed in their next life, if they were forced to take them at all.
The only condition for going back home, back to Krishna, is to remember Him at the moment of death. You don’t have to be of the sound mind, fully aware of the surrounding world and being certified as a mentally healthy person. It is quite possible that the devotee who jumped off the roof was screaming Krishna while he was falling and Krishna stood by His promise to take anyone who remembers Him while leaving his body back to the spiritual world.
Similarly, the devotee who hung himself might have gotten a body much better suited for execution of devotional service in his next life. Just as it’s better for the murderer to be executed by the state authorities it could be better for the mentally ill people to die and get a whole new body. We simply don’t know, it could turn both ways.
Sanatana Goswami himself was contemplating suicide once so it isn’t such an outrageous idea. He was, of course, stopped by Lord Chaitanya because Mahaprabhu had big plans for him, but what if the Lord doesn’t have any special plans for some devotee with a mental condition? What if He looks at this persons’ circumstances and thinks “Well, his body is absolutely useless, it would be better for him to get a new one.”
We simply don’t know.
We’ve been given instructions to maintain ourselves in good health and not even think of suicides but those are not absolute rules either. Always remember Krishna is the absolute rule, especially at death.
Sometime we take our lives here way too seriously.
When I read the comments in #17 above, I immediately thought of the radical Islamic terrorists who blow themselves up with a bomb strapped to their chest while blurting out “Allah akbar”, God is great. While it is true that we cannot know the destination of souls that have departed their bodies, I would shudder to think that we approve of such foolish and violent behavior, even while taking the Name of God, is an acceptable spiritual sacrifice. Indeed, Krishna can liberate anyone, even the demons. Sometimes, He cleverly demonstrates that someone like Putana, trying to kill Krishna by smearing her breasts with poison while breastfeeding Krishna like His mother, achieved a place higher than that granted to other demons killed by Him who are vanquished to the Brahma-jyoti. While all of this is Krishna-katha, there needs to be a measure of “common sense”. I never saw Srila Prabhupad decry common sense when exhibited by his disciples. Certainly there is a logic to spiritual life, and it may remain a mystery to us. Krishna is the Knower of past, present, and future. We generally place our faith in Krishna, not thinking that we can force Krishna’s mercy by acts of desperation. We have heard of many, many martyrs in all of the religions of the world. Some of the Buddhists in Vietnam would self-immolate (place themselves on fire while sitting cross-legged) during the 1950s-1960s as an apparent political sacrifice. I recall seeing these things on TV when I was a child.
Finally, we are advised to act according to the orders and standards of Sri Gurudeva, acceptable discharge of devotional service refers to the nine limbs of bhakti (sravanam, kirtanam, smaranam, etc.). The details of caring for physically or mentally ill persons at the time one is alive is a matter of common sense. It is not necessary for neurotic persons to be treated by a psychiatrist, but it may be necessary to treat psychotic or depressed persons who are a danger to themselves or others in a more urgent manner. Such care requires competency. Don’t miss the point. It is not a matter of speculating what the destiny of a psychotic suicide victim is, but rather the compassionate care we can arrange for such persons. I really find the side discussions an unnecessary distraction and misses presenting the point that the movement needs. Get or arrange care for such mentally ill persons, compassionately. Someday, they may become properly situated bhaktas. Pusta Krishna das
Srila Prabhupada on psychiatrists:
72-02 “Psychiatrists are humbug, all humbug. They cannot help. Best thing is to be engaged in continuously chanting and hearing sankirtana, that will cure anyone of mental disease.” (SPL to Upendra, February 19th, 1972)
Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Krsna, then the original Krsna consciousness is revived.
Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly — Melbourne, June 29, 1974
Prabhupada: Ah, ah. That drdha-vratah must be there, strong determination. Then it will go on. The scientists will come to learn and the psychiatrists will come to learn if you keep drdha-vratah. And as soon as you make compromise, then nobody will care for.
Room Conversation with Devotees — Melbourne, July 2, 1974
Prabhupada: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said — he admitted, both the psychiatrists — that “You are not treating the real person who is diseased.” I gave him the example, that “You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that ‘The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.’ But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver.”
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara — Atlanta, February 28, 1975
Prabhupada: That’s all. All these medical men, psychiatrists, they are simply painting the body of the car. That’s all.
Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara — Atlanta, February 28, 1975
Pancadravida: Psychiatrists.
Prabhupada: Yes. All Western adventure to keep people in darkness.
Morning Walk — [World War III] — Mayapur, April 4, 1975
Prabhupada: These rascals say, “No, it will not be accepted.” Just like yesterday they came, all the psychiatrists. As soon as we prescribed that “This is the prescription,” they said, “Oh, it is impractical.” I say that “Send your patient here.”
Morning Walk, Pert, May 17, 1975
So many people are suffering from mental diseases, especially in this country. [laughter] Yes. Psychiatrists and psychologists — they are taking advantage.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => 250+ Transcripts [Fidelity check pending]
And Srila Prabhupada on psychologists;
Thus on the material platform animalistic leaders are worshiped by animals. Sometimes physicians, psychiatrists and social workers try to mitigate bodily pain, distress and fear, but they have no knowledge of spiritual identity and are BEREFT OF A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD.
Madhya 17.185
Psychologists, they are also studying the mind, the activities, thinking, feeling and willing, and their varieties. That is also material. And ethereal understanding. So many things are going on, BUT THEY ARE ALL MATERIAL.
Bhagavad-gita 7.1-3 — Stockholm, September 10, 1973
Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better CLASS OF RASCALS…
Morning Walk — Germany, June 17, 1974
Prabhupada: The psychology is on the mental platform.
Harikesa: Yes.
Prabhupada: So what he will understand about spiritual platform?
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk — Honolulu, June 10, 1975
Prabhupada: But he (the psychiatrist) does not know what is the standard status of the mind. He doesn’t know. Even the psychiatrist, HE IS ALSO NOT IN SANE MIND. “Physician heal thyself.” Because he’s identifying himself with this body, so HE IS ALSO INSANE. SO THAT TREATMENT WILL NOT PERFECT. How a diseased man can become a physician? Therefore the English word is, “Physician heal thyself.”
Such Fanatical fundamentalism coping and posting quotes from Srila Prabhupada is foolish and will not help those with mental illness.
Today those comments by Srila Prabhupada do not apply and are certainly NOT relevant to today’s time, place and circumstance because in most cases the medicine given by modern psychiatrist does help one perform their devotional service and to call them all humbug in today’s world is not correct and does not apply as I have explained in a previous post.
There are many researchers who believe that an imbalance in serotonin levels may influence mood in a way that leads to depression. Back in the 1970s this treatment was in its infancy. Srila Prabhupada never commented on that form of psychiatry that is so prominent in today’s 21st Century, so to blanket all psychiatrist with the saying ’they cannot help’ or they are ‘all humbug’ found in Srila Prabhupada’s letter, is just simply NOT true today and is only pursued by immature devotees who have NO idea how to practically treat mental illness in today’s world.
The fact is our medical profession HAS come a long way since Srila Prabhupada was here and you CANNOT apply his teachings to all time, place and circumstance on psychiatry or psychologists as also explained with quotes in a previous post.
All psychiatrists are NOT humbug in today’s world, they also, like doctors, can help devotees, some doctors and psychiatrists are even devotees! Pusta Krishna dasa has been a doctor for over 30 years
Mental illness is ‘seriously’ misunderstood in ISKCON because of fanatical views in these early pioneering years.
To engage in our devotional service we need a healthy body and that means we may need the help of medical professionals, be them doctors or modern psychiatrists who promote anti-depressants and anti-psychotics medication which have already been proven to help devotees and aspiring devotees.
If they can help you then they are certainly not humbug, Srila Prabhupada’s ultimate mission is to free us all from the entanglement of repeated birth and death and return back home back to Godhead, if we need some medical help in pursuing this goal, then get the help you need, do not ignore mental illness and do not listen to fundamentalist fanatics.
Hare Krishna, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
“When I read the comments in #17 above, I immediately thought of the radical Islamic terrorists who blow themselves up with a bomb strapped to their chest while blurting out “Allah akbar”, God is great.” – why?
I think this is a good example why we shouldn’t put much trust in our first reactions. There are millions of people out there who think it’s a glorious way to die, but we, as non-Muslims, have been indoctrinated to treat them as “radical terrorists”. It’s a reaction based on our material conditioning.
They might be wrong in their understanding of spirituality but a warrior sacrificing himself in a battle to uphold religious principles and dying with Krishna’s name on his tongue should definitely reach Krishna. I don’t know what they reach by shouting “Allahu akbar”, though.
About mentally ill devotees – we know that suicides are wrong and we know that we should provide them with appropriate treatment. We know what is the right thing to do, they don’t, that’s why they have mental problems in the first place. Their own solutions might be wrong and not in line with neither guru nor sadhu nor shastra nor common sense, but who doesn’t make mistakes even if he has best intentions?
That’s what they essentially are – more wrong than the average. To residents of Vaikuntha, by comparison, we all might appear equally crazy.
Devotion is a function of the soul, not the mind. Remembrance of Krishna should affect the soul, too. Mind is external and most of the time falls under the influence of the gunas. It’s important, yes, but we should see beyond it, that’s all I’m saying. Fixing the mind does not automatically make people into devotees, or even into better devotees. It’s like saying “Oh, Prabhu, your IQ is too low to become a devotee.”
Also, Krishna started his instructions to Arjuna with ashocyan anvashocas tvam – “you are mourning for what is not worthy of grief. Those who are wise lament neither for the living nor for the dead.” Literally the first thing he said after being asked to clarify Arjuna’s doubts – do not worry about people dying.
Srila Prabhupada’s only concern is for the spiritual welfare of all individuals, when he spoke, he saw everyone as a spiritual entity and all his comments are from that platform. On that level he never spoke highly of institutions only dedicated to increasing material bodily sensual comforts, this is why he criticized many psychiatrists, psychologists and even hospitals.
However, in some cases, such medical professionals can and do help devotees and aspiring devotees. As already said, Srila Prabhupada’s main criticism was the use of such medical professionals without them understanding how to also give spiritual benefits. All those quotes in the above posts are based on that premises
From the spiritual platform, if such care is only given to increase sense gratification, then yes, such help is useless because the most important help is missing since the real purpose of human life is to develop ones spiritual awareness. This is the only reason why Srila Prabhupada criticized mental health care workers and even hospitals that were devoid of a spiritual base.
Today however, we must be practical and encourage sick devotees, be it physical or mental, to seek professional help that in turn helps them perform their devotional service and chant Hare Krishna.
As already said, to call them all humbug today is not very intelligent and only reveals our immaturity in understanding mental health professionals, even my personal doctor has many of Srila Prabhupada’s small books in his waiting room that was certainly not there 40 years ago, the world is a different place than when Srila Prabhupada was here. Many doctors are helping people so they can be healthy to continue to pursue their spiritual life.
Hare Krishna, your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
Srila Prabhupada was the expert doctor. Let us have faith in his prescription. However, we need to follow his instructions to be cured:
Prabhupada: Our business is sai vai manah krsna-padaravindayoh [SB 9.4.18]. First of all is mentality. Man-mana mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. “Always think of Me.” THIS IS THE CURE, Krsna consciousness. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65]. Beginning: always think of Krsna. This is the treatment. IT IS PROVED. MENTALLY, HE’LL BE CURED. And then physically also.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Conversation on Train to Allahabad — January 11, 1977, India
Psychiatry is not the solution:
“What’s a cure? That’s a term we don’t use in the medical or psychiatric profession.”Dr. Joseph Johnson, California psychiatrist during court deposition, 2003
“There are no objective tests in psychiatry, no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.”
—Allen Frances, Former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman
“DSM-IV is the fabrication upon which psychiatry seeks acceptance by medicine in general. Insiders know it is more a political than scientific document…DSM-IV has become a bible and a money making bestseller—its major failings notwithstanding.”
—Loren Mosher, M.D., Clinical Professor of Psychiatry
“We can manufacture enough diagnostic labels of normal variability of mood and thought that we can continually supply medication to you…But when it comes to manufacturing disease, nobody does it like psychiatry.” —Dr. Stefan Kruszewski, Harvard trained Pennsylvania psychiatrist, 2004
“In short, the whole business of creating psychiatric categories of ‘disease,’ formalizing them with consensus, and subsequently ascribing diagnostic codes to them, which in turn leads to their use for insurance billing, is nothing but an extended racket furnishing psychiatry a pseudo-scientific aura. The perpetrators are, of course, feeding at the public trough.” —Dr. Thomas Dorman, internist and member of the Royal College of Physicians of the UK, Fellow, Royal College of Physicians of Canada
More facts about the psych industry here:
http://www.cchr.org/quick-facts/introduction.html
Here are a couple of docs on psychiatry:
The DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual): Psychiatry’s Deadliest Scam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcuhhJ1BaMk
The Marketing of Madness
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgCpa1RlSdQ
These article are also very informative:
‘Psychology: The Science without Soul,’ details the godless origins of this ‘science.’
http://www.cchr.org/sites/default/files/The_Science_Without_A_Soul.pdf
‘The relationship between invented mental illnesses and psychotropic drug use’
http://www.cchr.org/sites/default/files/Anatomy_of_an_Epidemic_Psychiatric_Drugs_Rise_of_Mental_Illness.pdf
Blaming the Brain. The Chemical Imbalance Fraud’
http://www.cchr.org/sites/default/files/Blaming_The_Brain_The_Chemical_Imbalance_Fraud.pdf
Some quotes from prominent psychiatrists, including those who CREATED the DSM. They admit their fraud:
“There are no objective tests in psychiatry-no X-ray, laboratory, or exam finding that says definitively that someone does or does not have a mental disorder.” “there is no definition of a mental disorder.” “It’s bull—. I mean, you just can’t define it.” — Allen Frances, Psychiatrist and former DSM-IV Task Force Chairman
“Virtually anyone at any given time can meet the criteria for bipolar disorder or ADHD. Anyone. And the problem is everyone diagnosed with even one of these ‘illnesses’ triggers the pill dispenser.” — Dr. Stefan Kruszewski, Psychiatrist
“Despite more than two hundred years of intensive research, no commonly diagnosed psychiatric disorders have proven to be either genetic or biological in origin, including schizophrenia, major depression, manic-depressive disorder, the various anxiety disorders, and childhood disorders such as attention-deficit hyperactivity. At present there are no known biochemical imbalances in the brain of typical psychiatric patients—until they are given psychiatric drugs.” — Peter Breggin, Psychiatrist
Prabhupada uses the word ‘humbug.’ It means ‘deceptive, tricky, dishonest, false, or insincere.’
I think Prabhupada was right. The statements from the psychiatric profession themselves clearly back up Prabhupada’s words. His words are equally applicable today as they were when he spoke them. They will always be true.
“My only desire is to have my consciousness purified by the words emanating from the lotus mouth of my spiritual master.”
Srila Prabhupada, ki jai!
I recommend devotees in this thread watch this short 3.40 min video on the psych industry by one of the world’s leading experts in the field, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor of Psychiatry.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1uDkvqY5Tg
Your illusions about psychiatry being a so-called wonderful, scientific, improved and helpful industry will hopefully be dispelled.
Also, this short intro to ‘Psychiatry: An Industry of Death’ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPUHUpfDVgY is useful.
Thank Krsna for Srila Prabhupada! He was is and will always be right. His words are purifying for the soul. May we all abide by his instructions that were meant to protect and guide us.
Psychiatry:
No science.
No cures
The so-called ‘chemical imbalance’ is a lie. The entire industry is based on an admitted and total fraud.
Don’t believe me, or even Srila Prabhupada if you don’t want, but instead listen to the psychiatric experts themselves tell the truth in this short video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoJBvH2xZ18
4.35mins
Srila Prabhupada, ki jai!
Vraja Vilasa dasa to blanket all psychiatrists the way you have is simply utter nonsense, anyone can look and find negative quotes over the internet, however, I guarantee you there are far more positive quotes by doctors and professionals.
Many devotees I know have been helped by mental health professionals. and your comments may encourage a devotee to not seek the help they need. Such a view is immature and fanatical. Frankly I believe you have no idea what mental illness is and I pray no one takes your comments seriously – Hare Krishna
“I never saw Srila Prabhupad decry common sense when exhibited by his disciples.”
Yes. Pusta Krsna Prabhu is right. Srila Prabhupada said many things which, when taken to some impractical extreme by a beginner, can produce a bad result.
Srila Prabhupada also said many things which, if put side by side and viewed in a particular way, may appear to contradict one another. The intelligent disciple has to understand in such a way as to harmonize these statements and please Srila Prabhupada.
It is safest to follow senior devotees who have been successful in Krishna consciousness for many years, rather than get carried away with ideas of being “ultra” loyal to the letter of some things Srila Prabhupada said, without understanding the practical application.
Sometimes devotees become excited about being “ultras”, radicals, to the point of defying common sense as a kind of wishy-washy compromise. It feels adventurous to challenge the mundane, demoniac civilization and all of its ways. However, unless one is very strong and very wise, such challenges to common sense result in failures. We only end up proving our inability to give proper weight and proportion to different instructions. Experienced devotees can prioritize things correctly. We should understand the principle behind some of Srila Prabhupada’s more radical-sounding statements without immediately doing something foolish and rash.
For example, this morning I was reading Srila Prabhupada’s commentary on SB Canto One, Chapter 17 (Punishment and Reward of Kali). There, he makes some suggestions for strong, God-conscious political leaders to prohibit intoxication (even by imposing death penalty), to make marriage compulsory for boys by age 24 and girls by age 16, with no divorce, prohibiting slaughterhouses immediately and so on. We can understand the principles behind these prescriptions without becoming radical political activists trying to impose such rules on an unready population.
Some crazy devotees once got involved in a terrorist plot to blow up slaughterhouses (I think they died in their own bomb-making operations), and Srila Prabhupada was totally disgusted. He never asked us to do things like that.
Our business is book distribution and harinama and setting a good example while being respectable, decent, law-abiding citizens. The last thing we need is to give the public an impression of devotees as dangerous crackpots.
So yes, we can understand what it means that psychiatrists are “humbug”, but that does not mean that there is never an appropriate circumstance to make use of psychiatric services.
We have also seen some remarkable instances of devotees with serious psychological problems becoming clean, healthy, successful devotees by chanting Hare Krishna.
Some professional psychiatrists are also devotees, and they may contribute in a small, incremental way to making their profession less “humbug.”
It is the same with devotee politicians and scientists and historians and bankers. They can go on doing their professions and also appreciating Srimad Bhagavatam. They do not have to immediately and openly reject all the notions and norms of their respective professions in order to become devotees. We do not want to raise such barriers to them becoming devotees.
Srila Prabhupada was happy to meet with professional people, and if they could become serious devotees so much the better. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor. Not that they should compromise on their understanding of Srila Prabhupada’s books but that they should know how to apply that knowledge practically in their own life and in their own service.
The same goes for temple presidents. We do not expect our temples to forbid devotees from getting help from doctors, psychologists, lawyers, career-guidance counselors, or whatever may be needed in modern life. We have to encourage people to add Krsna consciousness to their lives in a way that is beneficial and practical for them.
Religion without philosophy is fanaticism. Sometimes we have to take a more philosophical, broader view of Srila Prabhupada’s overall teachings. We should not compromise philosophically, but we should not how to practice what we have learned in a way that produces a successful result.
And no, I cannot agree with Sitalatma that we can speculate that maybe the suicide of that South American devotee was perhaps the best thing for him. We were very sorry to hear that it had happened. We were not able to accommodate him living in the temple, but we wished we could find some way for him to keep chanting and visiting, perhaps getting some medication that could help him with his psychosis. Many people today can live relatively normal, decent, productive devotional lives by taking medication. We do not forbid it. If it works we should encourage it.
Dear Gaura Gopal prabhu,
I recommend you read these statements from Prabhupada again. If you don’t have faith in his words, then read the words from the psych industry professionals themselves.
It all comes down to faith in Srila Prabhupada. If you don’t believe his words and have don’t have any faith in him, thinking him a common man who was wrong, then certainly you will look for temporary material solutions. I believe you’ve definitely offended Srila Prabhupada in your above comments saying that his statements ‘no longer apply.’ Where is your evidence of that? Prove to me that his words no longer apply. I believe you have not made this case. I also believe that you yourself are the ‘fanatical fundamentalist’ and not Srila Prabhupada in that you are bound to your biased opinion despite the words of the founder acarya of ISKCON and even the psych professionals themselves. Our reference is always guru, sadhu and sastra, not modern psychology. Or at least it should be. I have yet to see any references from Prabhupada or sastra to support your claims.
“Hearing of the transcendental activities of Lord Krsna is therefore expert treatment for the mad mind, and eating the foodstuff offered to Krsna is the appropriate diet for the suffering patient. This treatment is the process of Krsna consciousness.”
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Bg 6.35
I hope that some devotees out there still have faith in Srila Prabhupada instead and like to follow his instructions.
Do we think we know better than Srila Prabhupada? Did Prabhupada employ psychiatrists? Did any acarya ever recommend any other process than that given in the sastra? If not, then who do we think we are? We think we’re better or know better than they? Better than a nitya siddha pure devotee? Who is directly in touch with Krsna at all times?
We must simply follow in their footsteps.
Additionally, did you know that the most thorough study of long-term treatment of schizophrenia with antipsychotic medications showed that they did not facilitate recovery and actually hindered it? Read it here: https://www.madinamerica.com/2013/03/do-antipsychotics-worsen-long-term-schizophrenia-outcomes-martin-harrow-explores-the-question/ . There are many other studies which detail the terrible effect of drugs for various other so-called mental ‘disorders.’ There are many other options besides drugging people, not the least of which is spiritual practices.
May Srila Prabhupada’s words be glorified.
Hare Krsna prabhus,
Those who criticise Srila Prabhupada’s words, calling them ‘utter nonsense’ because he makes ‘blanket statements’ against psychiatrists, are criticising Srila Prabhupada himself. I have simply provided Prabhupada’s statements on this issue. He never wavered in his condemnation of them. A typical statement:
72-02 “Psychiatrists are humbug, all humbug. They cannot help. Best thing is to be engaged in continuously chanting and hearing sankirtana, that will cure anyone of mental disease.” (SPL to Upendra, February 19th, 1972)
He also clearly provides the solution:
Prabhupada: Our business is sai vai manah krsna-padaravindayoh [SB 9.4.18]. First of all is mentality. Man-mana mad-bhakto. Mental cure, then physically devotee. “Always think of Me.” THIS IS THE CURE, Krsna consciousness. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto [Bg. 18.65]. Beginning: always think of Krsna. This is the treatment. IT IS PROVED. MENTALLY, HE’LL BE CURED. And then physically also.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Conversation on Train to Allahabad — January 11, 1977, India
If anyone has an issue with the words of our Founder-acarya, then I believe you should take up your arguments with him. Your anger is actually against him, his statements and his recommendations. That is clear. You have never been able to refute his statements and have provided no evidence to the contrary.
Now if someone doesn’t want to follow his instructions in this regard that is okay, but to publicly criticise Prabhupada’s explicit words on an ISKCON forum is reprehensible. Why so defensive of modern pscyh and aggressive and dismissive against Srila Prabhupada? I really wonder.
Due to the offensiveness of the comments here against Srila Prabhupada, I am discontinuing the discussion from my side. Probably, as far as I can see, there is a ‘greater need’ for the commenters here to understand Srila Prabhupada’s words on this issue, more than anything else.
Even the main article about psychiatry on Wikipedia has a large section dedicated to controversies. In light of what Srila Prabhupada said about psychiatry we shouldn’t dismiss psychiatrists themselves crying “humbug”.
As for progress, there’s one quote there that explains its dynamics:
“..a number of phenomena considered “deviant”, such as alcoholism, drug addiction and mental illness, were originally considered as moral, then legal, and now medical problems. As a result of these perceptions, peculiar deviants were subjected to moral, then legal, and now medical modes of social control.”
In Prabhupada’s time main treatment was psychotherapy but now it’s psychopharmacology. According to the same wiki
“A major reason for this change was the advent of managed care insurance plans, which began to limit reimbursement for psychotherapy sessions provided by psychiatrists.”
And this isn’t even the controversial part, controversy lies with pharmaceutical companies pouring large amounts of money into psychopharmacology and thus influencing how psychiatrists practice their trade. In Prabhupada’s time a psychiatrist would schedule one follow appointment in an hour but now they can easily fit three or four, because all they do is give out prescriptions.
Apparently there is progress, but more in a sense of “change” than in what constitutes actual progress from Krishna consciousness point of view. We don’t need to catch up on it just as we don’t need to catch up on any other scientific theory.
This article’s title says that there’s “great need” to understand mental illness in ISKCON. Is there? Did Srila Prabhupada leave us with incomplete knowledge?
Maybe this need is no greater than the need to use facebook and twitter, or provide devotees with medical insurance in countries where healthcare could be very costly.
There’s also a growing divergence in the comments between what the author recommended – group therapy, and Gauragopal Prabhu’s advocacy of medication.
Incidentally, a few days ago I saw a self-portrait of a very successful Hollywood producer. Instead of a face it was a huge pile of prescription medicine on a table. He isn’t mentally ill but the point is still there.
Perhaps there’s a greater need to maintain healthy skepticism about where modern science and psychiatry is taking us.
I have never personally met Gauragopala das, but I must say that I have truly appreciated the comments you have made in Dandavats.com over the last few years that I have followed it. One must not simple appreciate other bhaktas who echo your own sentiments, but rather their words and sentiments are soothing to the heart. What I especially like in the case is the obvious compassion that is reflected in your words. On the other hand, I can appreciate the fervor that Vraja Vilasa das expresses since he is aiming to become more faithful to Srila Prabhupad’s previously recorded words.
There are several ways you can reflect upon this. First, the shastra and its expression and interpretation by a Vaishnava-Acharya is transparent expression of Krishna. Then, there is the comments on contemporary society. This is by its very nature a moving target. For example, when we first started out in Krishna consciousness in the West, we heard many disparaging words about Hindus. We used to think that they were virtually all Mayavadis. However, over the years, we have seen the power of the Holy Name and Srila Prabhupada’s presentation bring out the Vaishnava side of so many millions upon millions of East Indians. Thus, expressions about contemporary society or phenomenon may change and evolve. They are to that extent relative. We are not practicing “Brahminism”, but rather Krishna consciousness.
I hope that an example like this may not cause aggressive reactions. Rather, appreciate how the changing world can be analyzed differently at different times. I hope that you can understand that the purpose of supporting getting necessary help for aspiring bhaktas with serious mental disturbance is not to promote psychiatry, but rather to promote the care that such aspiring bhaktas may need to carry on. The bottom line is that there must be compassionate concern about the well-being of the devotees. When that compassion translates into action, then decisions must be made by temple authorities to either ignore the situation, or to intercede to facilitate help for such individuals. While the Holy Name is all pure, the capacity of a mentally disturbed individual to proceed along is in question. If you are qualified to help such individuals, then do so. But if not, arrange for someone to help. CONTINUED Pusta Krishna das
Continuation of comments:
This is the basis for my recommendation to create an alliance with competent and sympathetic mental health care workers. For better or worse, in this current society, it is necessary to use a psychiatrist. At least in the US, psychologists cannot prescribe medications if they are necessary. And, again, these serious depressive and psychotic disorders usually require medication. Pop psychiatrists who denounce these principles may be like the pop-spiritualists who use a little yoga or sophist (half-true) philosophy to get clients for themselves to take their money or to be known as gurus themselves. That is not at all helpful. You want someone who respects the right of someone to worship and serve Krishna, while addressing the obvious impediments that mental disorders (ie biochemical disorders) can present. Yes, the soul is transcendental to all of that, but theory will be challenged by the moment to moment challenges of the difficult karma some may have.
This is a challenging problem, and probably one that every temple across the earth has had to deal with. You all need a practical approach. Just as child molestation is not acceptable, because such behavior can harm others, are there those amongst you who will try to reform a child molester in the Krishna consciousness movement in order to save the soul of the child molester? Or, is it too abhorrent to consider that the enjoying spirit can take on such an ugly exploitative form to molest innocent children? There may be some heavy prejudice there! Similarly, the mentally ill aspiring bhaktas may have the heart of a devotee, but due to the cloud of matter with which they are confronted, they may do harm to themselves or to others. Show proper compassion, spiritually…
Pusta Krishna das
Vraja Vilasa dasa again what you write is simply nonsense in regards to my comments, my criticism is clearly of your misunderstanding of Srila Prabhupada’s comments that I have said cannot always be for all time, place and circumstance. Lets face it, your a fanatic and it seems you need to be extreme in your presentation of Krishna consciousness to convince yourself, listen to Pusta Krishna prabhu and Akruranatha prabhu, their understanding is mature while your presentation is immature, re-read their compassionate posts and learn a little humility and how to correctly deal with mental illness in devotees.
The chanting of Hare Krishna will not heal a broken leg, you must go to a doctor and have your leg put in a leg cast, then the leg will heal. Similarly many devotees have suffered from mental illness caused by a chemical embalance in the brain and the chanting of Hare Krishna alone will NOT heal a damaged brain in that instance, you must also see a doctor or psychiatrist. Sangana dasa had this chemical imbalance in his brain and his mental illness required him to be on anti-psychotics. Once he went to India and forgot to take his medication, he was chanting Hare Krishna but without his medication he still went mad and was arrested at the airport after going berserk and was put in a psychiatric Hospital in India until his medication again kicked in, only then did he become calm.
People with mental illness are not pure devotees so just like a doctor helps one with a broken leg get better and perform their service similarly a psychiatrist or mental health professional helps the devotee keep his brain substance stable with medication, as in the case of Sangana prabhu, so he can also perform his service. Of course the chanting of Hare Krishna should never stop regardless of ones bodily condition however, as already said, we are not pure devotee, some devotees need some help with their material body in achieving that level. If doctors and psychiatrists help us keep it together, which they differently do, then we should seek their help.
To deny a devotee such, care, compassion and help and tell them that only Krishna is the real doctor and only he can help you and you don’t need doctors, psychiatrists and medication is just fanatical nonsense. To not give one the proper medical care they need and ignore their medical condition by telling them only their faith in God can help them, without doctors is ignorance in our modern society. Hare Krishna
How do we tell who are “pop” psychiatrists and who are “real” ones? Medication of mental patients is promoted not by scientists but by big pharma companies who, reportedly, spend twenty to thirty thousand dollars per each psychiatrist on average to entice them to prescribe more and more of their drugs. One big name psychiatrist from Harward Medical school admitted that he received 1.6 million dollars hidden payments from drug companies.
Drugs can obviously be very effective in treating acute symptoms of mental illness but that also means that pharmaceutical companies, who are in business of making money, not curing people, are not interested in treating the disorders themselves, only in continuous managing symptoms.
Jivas are given particular bodies to resolve their issues, not to swipe them under the carpet. In that sense taking medicine to hide symptoms of mental illness it’s not much different form undergoing chemical castration to better follow the fourth reg. Take a pill – problem solved, or rather avoided for the moment. This doesn’ t seem like a Krishna conscious approach.
As a relatively young society ISKCON might not have enough experience in dealing with mental problems and so there’s no shame in learning a trick or two from organizations like NAMI mentioned in the article but continuously medicating ourselves to become better devotees just doesn’t sound right. It’s definitely not in our books.
Biochemical disorders as causes of mental illness is also largely a myth, and you can’t tell healthy mind from a sick one by studying brain images either. Science doesn’t know what makes people mentally ill, in this regard I remembered this video which proposes a reasonable answer to causes of ADHD epidemic outside of biological factors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwNI1_VObto
In some states up to 16% of children are diagnosed as mentally ill and prescribed medication for ADHD. Are we going to do the same thing with our gurukulis? I imagine they can be as disorderly as any other kids of their age. Are we, on advice of “real” science, going to put them on drugs so that they grow into better devotees?
Hare Krishna Karuna, Thank you for this wonderful article. I wish I had seen it sooner so I am commenting late. I have been a psychiatric RN for 15 years and have so many stories… but just want to comment here that I have treated many devotees, some very ill. I cannot give out much information because of confidentiality, but would like to share one interesting story.
I work in a locked, acute, admissions unit for forensically committed patients. In other words, the “law” sent them to us, and they are the sickest of the sick. One patient I noticed would hold his food up to the sky before eating it. Everyone thought he was just nuts doing this. He is chronically homeless, disheveled, hears voices so he often talks to himself and looks scary to people. It wasn’t until his second or third admission that he noticed I was wearing tulasi beads and said “Hare Krishna!”… when I repeated the greeting back he smiled and said he used to work in the San Diego temple, serving prasadam and washing pots. He then chanted the maha mantra, and over the following weeks wrote me several letters stating “I wish all good things to you and your family, Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare, Haribol!”. Eventually he was discharged and I don’t know where he is now. The point I am trying to make here is that he never forgot the devotees, or the Holy Name, he still “offers” his food, and even though he is suffering with schizophrenia and homelessness he is joyful and peaceful.
We are not our bodies, we are not our minds… the mind is very difficult to control, and when the mind is ill…. it causes the worst kind of distress. Medication works. The maha mantra is transcendental and whenever these poor suffering souls regain sanity, or even if they remain “insane”, the Holy Name will stay with them.
As for all the debate about psychiatry and medication, in my opinion both are necessary, just as a surgeon is needed for some bodily problem… some doctors are quacks though, and the science of psychiatry has a loooong way to go before we can treat mental illness effectively. The answer is to carry on with Harinama Sankirtana and book distribution, and not worry too much about the material conditions we will never fix.
Thank you for your service Karuna
Gaurasundari Dasi
Is this the same Sitalatma das who in comment #17 above speculated that the mentally ill person who hung himself “might” get a body better suited for devotional service, or that the person who jumped off the roof of the Amsterdam Temple might have attained Krishna by chanting Krishna while his head crushed into the cobblestone in the street? This approach is truly unacceptable. You get a new body every moment while you transmigrate! Your mind is one of the subtle energies of the Lord in this world. It is not the body, nor the mind that are at issue here. It is the biochemical and electical wiring in the brain that contributes to the mental illness, for lack of a better term. These things have been studied. I would shutter to think that Sitalatma would have management responsibilities in a temple with a diverse population of aspiring devotees, some of whom might suffer from such disturbances. You are misleading others. I do not think, from your consistent prejudice that you will be able to understand the importance of this topic, nor will you be capable of helping any such tormented persons to achieve a healthier state of well being in order to serve the Lord favorably in this lifetime. I simply hope that those in responsible positions of leadership have the good sense to approach these issues appropriately. This is not to raise medical science up on a pedestal, but rather to find the means to help such souls. The proper audience for this discussion is with those who have seen these things, and want to be more well-directed in helping these souls who come to the doorstep of the ashrama. You must understand that there can be many negative consequences of ignoring this problem, until it is too late. We live in a complex society of kooks and occasionally deranged people. It is natural that the temples will have to address these issues repeatedly. If the wrong approach is taken, the outcomes can be very, very serious and even fatal. We don’t want to see responsible leaders in the ashrama scratch their heads after the fact and say, “what could we have done differently?” Pusta Krishna das
The following Srila Prabhupada memory stands on it’s own merit. No need for me to comment.
Written by Giriraja Maharaja, and posted with his direct permission:
When one devotee in Bombay was suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, we asked Srila Prabhupada about her condition and what to do about it. (Her father had proposed to send her to a psychiatric hospital for treatment.) His Divine Grace replied, “I know her. She is a devotee. The mind is also part of the body, just like any other part. Just as one’s arm or leg may be broken, but one’s illness does not affect one’s position as a devotee, so one’s mind may be ‘broken’, but one’s mental disease does not affect one’s spiritual position as a devotee. And just as one’s arm or leg can be mended by medical treatment, so one’s mind can also be treated.” Thus His Divine Grace approved of her treatment in a psychiatric hospital.
“..mentally ill person who hung himself “might” get a body better suited for devotional service, or that the person who jumped off the roof of the Amsterdam Temple might have attained Krishna by chanting Krishna while his head crushed into the cobblestone in the street? This approach is truly unacceptable. ”
I’m sorry you feel this way, Pusta Krishna Prabhu, but that’s what is said in Bhagavad Gita.
It is no preclusion from treating mentally ill devotees either. There’s no contradiction there.
My memory of Pusta Krishna prabhu, yes we have met before and even danced together in front of Radha Ballabha
In 1976 I was Srila Prabhupada’s Bodyguard and not only stayed out the front of his room, but slept there as well. At the time four well shaven suited men, all in their forties would always come by the Temple harassing us with high teak cameras and listening devices. (Keep in mind that the average age of a devotee back then was twenty-five so these adult men were pretty scary)
They would also follow us our on street Sankirtan, film us and try to intimate the devotee’s distributing books by taking many, then ripping them up and throwing the books or magazines in a rubbish bin!
These men where part of a self appointed fundamentalist Christian deprogramming group that dealt with what they considered threats to the fundamentalist Christian’s youth being converted to other faiths. One afternoon Pushta Krishna went down to speak to them and one of them, in a barrage of abuse, threatened to kill Srila Prabhupada. “These people are demons!” said Pushta Krishna
Pushta Krishna was terrified, horrified what these men had said, and was reluctant to even repeat it however; he did tell only a few devotees that Prabhupada’s life had been threatened. Hari Sauri prabhu, Srila Prabhupada’s servant, was appalled and discussed that a pure devotee of Krishna was threatened in this way and so concerned we bought a shot gun.
The next day I was outside hiding in a car out the front of ‘Prabhupada’s House’ as these men walked past, when I opened the door, one pulled out a hand gun’ The ring leader was high up member of this fundamental Christian group, a private detective known and even respected by many as a deprogrammer and even a rumoured hit man.
Amoga dasa was at the front gate and out of fear, I crawled the front wall of the Temple, about 7 feet high at the time, so quickly that Amoga was astonished.
We told Prabhupada what had happened and he said “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much succuss with today’s young people” we called the police and they spoke with them and Ugrashava dasa.
continued next post
The police did nothing, they new who he was, while Ugrashava just called them dogs of fundamentalist Christianity among other things.
At night I would stay out on the balcony of Prabhupada’s House with the shot gun, staying awake watching Srila Prabhupada translate late into the night. Even though the night was freezing cold out on the balcony, watching Srila Prabhupada gave me warmth as he translated and had his late night massage, which was truly amazing. Then after Hari Sauri prabhu left the room, Prabhupada would go around to all the windows and doors to make sure they where locked.
For days these men intimidated devotee and guests but we were told to ignore them, except for Ugrashave Prabhu who constantly gave them lip to let them know that nothing they could do could scare us because we had Krishna on our side
A week after Srila Prabhupada had left a drive by shooting occurred and gunshots went through one of the windows – Kurma dasa’s room. He was there at the time and was fortunately unhurt. The next day it made page two of the Melbourne Sun.
A few months after that someone through a small bomb over the back fence exploding on one of the cars, which made the first bulletin on the evening TV news all over Australia. The previous night, during my guard duty, I took some rest in that same car.
The out cry of the public, due to the media reports, seemed to stop any further attacks from these Christian fundamentalist fanatics.
During all these attacks we remembered what Srila Prabhupada had said ‘ “Then our movement is having some success, these men feel threatened because our movement is having so much succuss with today’s young people”
Your fallen servant Gauragopala dasa
This is very important to contemplate: All religion is not spiritual. Religion covered by the modes of ignorance, passion, and goodness, are covered by material self centeredness. For example, we must not mistake the tragedy of Jonestown, when Jim Jones in the guise of representing God, had his followers commit suicide voluntarily or forcefully by drinking arsenic in kool-aid. Similarly, disillusioned persons with political motives, desirous of attaining heavenly pleasures, may strap a concealed bomb around their chest in order to kill others. Spiritual religion is exemplified by Bhagavat Dharma, wherein the central point is the loving service and pastimes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krishna. It is nirguna, or devoid of the material modes of nature.
Many years ago, one young man in ISKCON was disturbed by the reality that his wife was having an affair with a senior ISKCON local leader. He could not reconcile the loss and so he wanted to know from Srila Prabhupad if it would be justified to take the life of the ISKCON man who deprived him of his wife. The man did go on to kill the other man, and spent about seven years in prison. When Srila Prabhupad was later told about this, and how that young man had wanted to ask Srila Prabhupad if the killing would be justified, Srila Prabhupad replied to some of his disciples: “What is the use of giving good advice to a fool?”
I relate this history to advise people not to be foolish. Not to use Krishna’s teachings in a twisted way. Not to claim ownership to Krishna’s teachings. You will truly be able to understand the teachings of Krishna through the agency of His devotee: tad viddhi pranipatena… For if you become arrogant, and think that you can quote Krishna’s words for your own convenience, without reference to vaishnava or sadhu, then you may fall into the category of a fool. Be cautious and be submissive, and Krishna from within will enlighten you, and will give you the vaishnava association necessary to achieve success in transcendental loving service of the Lord. That religion is purely spiritual and Krishna centric, and pleasing to both Krishna and the vaishnavas.
Pusta Krishna das