Patita Pavan dasa: Sings Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
“Leaving the company of Radha-Syama in Vraja-Dhama (ChAdi’rAdhA-syAme braja- dhAme) you have come to this material world and suffered a host of painful miseries (bhugcho hethA nAnA-klesa).
You are actually composed of pure spiritual knowledge and bliss (tumi suddha cidAnanda) whose only happiness is found in service to Krsna
(Krsna-sevA tA’r Ananda). Alas, you have fallen into the hands of the material elements (panca-bhUter hAte pode’ hAy) trapped within the prison-house of Maya-devi (mAyA-devir kArAgAre).”
Baul Sangit (12)
Therefore the many statements on this site from Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and**Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura on the soul’s fall from the border of matter and spirit mean a stopover at the border of the material and spiritual world where the soul gets another chance or choice. Srila Prabhupada writes in SB 3.12.3: “The Lord first of all tries to protect him from the trap, but when the living entity persists on gliding down to hell, the Lord helps him to forget his real position to give the chance to see if he is happy by misusing his independence”.
“Devotee (1): In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it says that Krishna did not want us to come to this material world. If Krishna did not want us to come, why are we here?
Prabhupada: Yes. You forced Krishna to allow you to come. Just like sometimes a child forces his father. Father says,”My dear son, do not do this. Do not go there.” But he insists,”Oh, I must go. I must go.” “All right, you go at your risk. That’s all. And you suffer. What can be done?” Because you are son of God-God has got independence, full independence, almighty-therefore you have acquired the quality of your father. You have got little independence. So God does not interfere with your little independence. If you persist that”I must go and enjoy independently,” so God says, “All right, you can go.” This is the position. You have to take sanction. That is a fact. But when you persist, God sanctions. And you come and enjoy. Beginning from Lord Brahma down to the worms in the stool, gradually… (Bg. lecture, Melbourne, June 27, 1974)
Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura describes in the next song again the fall of the soul from Goloka.
” Verse(13)
cid-dhama-bhaskara krsna, tanra jyotirgata
ananta citkana jiba tisthe avirata
Krsna is the shining sun of this all-cognizant spiritual abode, and
within His effulgence dwell innumerable fine particles of pure cognizance called jiva.
(14)
sei jiba prema-dharmi, krsna-gata-prana
sada krsnakrstha, bhakti-sudha kore’ pana
These jiva souls are by very nature full of pure ecstatic love and are all the dearly beloved of Lord Krsna. Always being attracted by Krsna, they continuously drink the ambrosial nectar of devotion.
(15)
nana-bhava-misrita piya dasya-rasa
krsner ananta-gune sada thake basa
Enjoying a mixture of various moods in the mellow of servitude, the jivas eternally remain subjugated and controlled by Krsna’s unlimited virtuous qualities.
(16)
krsna mata, krsna pita, krsna sahka, pati
ei sab bhinna-bhava krsna kore rati
They also love Krsna in all the different moods of being related to Him as a mother, father, friend, or husband.
(17)
krsna se purusa ek nitya brndabane
jiba-gana nari-brnda, rame krsna sane
Eternally in Vrndavana Krsna is the only male (purusa), and all the jivas there enjoy pastimes in His company in the role of females (prakrti).
(18)
sei to’ ananda-lila ja’r nai anta
ataeva krsna-lila akhanda ananta
There is no end to all of these blissful pastimes; therefore Krsna’s pastimes are known for being undisputedly supreme and unlimited.
(19)
je-sab jiber ‘bhoga-banca upajilo
purusa bhavete ta’ra jade paravesilo
All the souls, in whom the desire to enjoy separately awaken, have to enter into the material world under the false conception of being a male
(a purusa).
(20)
maya-karya jada maya–nitya-sakti-chaya
krsna-dasi sei satya, kara-kartri maya
Illusory material activities as well as maya herself are both the shadow
reflections of the eternal potency. In reality, maya is the eternal maidservant of Krsna, but her job is to be in charge of operating the prison-house of the material world.
(21)
sei maya adarser samasta bisesa
loiya gathilo bisva jahe purna klesa
This illusory energy maya, has created the material universe exactly like an imitation model of the real spiritual variegatedness, but with the added feature of being full of various miseries.
(22)
jiba jadi hoilena krsna-bahimukha
mayadevi tabe ta’r jachilena sukha
If by chance a living entity becomes averse to the Supreme Lord Krsna, then Mayadevi’s duty is to voluntarily offer her temptations of material
happiness.
(23)
maya-sukhe matta jiba sri-krsna bhulilo
sei se avidya-base asmita janmilo
Intoxicated by maya’s illusory happiness, the living entity then forgets
Krsna. Under the influence of such ignorance, false egoistic selfishness arises.
(29)
bhramite bhramite jadi sadhu-sanga hoy
punaraya gupta nitya-dharmer udoy
Thus wandering and wandering, if by chance the poor soul gets the association of the devotees of the Lord, then her eternal nature, which has been for so long covered over, will once again become aroused.
(30)
sadhu-sange krsna-katha hoy alocana
purva-bhava udi’ kate mayar bandhan
By discussing topics concerning Krsna in the association of devotees, and thus awakening her previous mentality of servitude to Krsna, all bondage to maya’s illusion become severed.
(31)
krsna- prati jiba jabe korena iksana
bidya-rupa maya kore’ bandhana chedana
When the conditioned soul thus looks towards Krsna, then by such an act,this very same maya, in the form of transcendental knowledge, severs all of her material bonds.
(32)
mayika jagate bidya nitya-brndabana
jiber sadhana-janya kore’ bibhavana
The seat of this transcendental knowledge is present within this very universe as the eternal Vrndavana-dhama in India . Lord Krsna expands His abode and pastimes at this Vrndavana just to facilitate the conditioned souls’ practice of devotional service.
(33)
sei brndabane jiba bhavavistha ho’ye
nitya seva labha kore’ caitanya- asraye
When she comes into contact with this Vrndavana, the living entity becomes overwhelmed and lost in emotional ecstasy. Remaining under the shelter of Lord Caitanya, she attains eternal service.
(34)
prakatita lila, ar goloka-bilasa
ek tattva, bhinna noy, dvividha prakasa
The Lord’s pastimes of appearing in this world, as well as His pastimes in Goloka, are one and the same truth. Being non-different, they are simply two types of manifestations of the same pastimes.
(35)
nitya-lila nitya-dasa-ganer niloy
e prakata-lila baddha-jiber asroy
The eternal pastimes in Goloka are the abode of all the eternally liberated servitors, whereas the manifest pastimes in the material world are the refuge for all of the bound-up conditioned living entities.
(36)
ataeva brndabana jiber avasa
asar samsare nitya-tattver prakasa
Therefore Vrndavana is the living entities original eternal home, manifesting its own eternally true nature within the dead material world.” (Kalyana Kalpataru)
In many other places the Thakura writes the same.
“..he went to take bath in the Ganges. He merged his body unto the naval into the water of the Ganges and sat down in the posture of padmasana. Thereafter he fixed his sight between his eyebrows while remembering the lotus feet of Supreme Lord.
..Meanwhile when Jivadasa saw that his father did not returned from the Ganges for a long time he came to the bathing ghata of the Ganges and saw his father absorbed in yogic meditation. Gradually it became afternoon and Jivadasa repeatedly called his father. Not getting any answer Jivadasa checked his body and came to know that his father has left them and returned to the spiritual world…. Then everyone including the brahmanas, the kayasthas and the members of the other class began to touch that saintly body and felt great happiness. Thereafter they decorated that saintly body with flower garlands and took it to the crematorium on an opulent cot. People began to shower
flowers on him from four directions. The vaishnavas walked with him while performing Harinama sankirtana. This was indeed a wonderful incident. Devadasa who was dear to everyone today left everyone and return to the blissful abode of the Lord.”
Devadasach22
sphulinga riddhagner iva cid-anavo jiva-nicaya
hareh suryasyevaprithag api tad-bheda-vishayah
vashe maya yasya prakriti-patir eveshvara iha
sa jivo mikto ‘pi prakriti-vasha-yogyah sva-gunatah
sphulingah—sparks; riddha—large; agneh—of a fire; iva—just like; cit—of spiritual energy; anavah—atoms; jiva–of living entities; nicayah—multitudes; hareh—of Lord Hari; suryasya—of the sun; iva—just like; aprithak—not different; api—and; tat—from that; bheda-vishayah—different; vashe—in the control; maya—illusory potency, maya; yasya—of whom; prakriti—of material energy; patih—the master; eva—certainly; ishvarah—controller; iha—here; sah—He; jivah—the living entity; muktah—liberated; api— although; prakriti—of material nature; vasha—to the control; yogyah—suitable; sva—own; gunatah–because of the quality.
Just as the sparks are to a great fire, and just as the particles of sunlight are to the sun, in the same way, the living entities are simultaneously one and different from Lord Hari.Lord Hari is always the supreme master of the illusory potency maya, whereas the living entities, even in the liberated condition, are liable to become subject to the influence of maya, because of their smallness.”
T 80Shri Gauranga-Lila-Smarana-Mangala-Stotram
Auspicious Verses for Remembering Lord Gauranga’s Pastimes
(3)
tomare loite ami hoinu avatara
ami vina bandhu ara ke ache tomara
3) “I have descended to this world just to reclaim you. Other than Myself, who else is your true friend? ”
Arunodaya-Kirtan by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
(4)
gopinatha, ami to’ tomar jana
tomare chadiya, samsar bhajinu,
bhuliya apana-dhana
Oh Gopinatha, I am actually Your eternal devotee, but somehow or other I have abandoned You to worship this useless material world. Thus I have completely forgotten about the supreme treasure which is my birthright.
Song 2 — Gopinatha
(1)
gopinatha amar upay nai
tumi krpa kori, amare loile,
samsare uddhar pai
Oh Gopinatha, Lord of the gopis, I can’t see any possible means of deliverance. Only if You bestow Your causeless mercy and take me back to Godhead, then it will be possible for me to get out of this predicament.”
Song 3 — Gopinatha
KrishnaKrishnaKrishnaSong 1 — Sambandha (Relationship with Krsna)
(3)
he radhe, he krishna-candra bhakta-pran
pamare jugala
-bhakti koro’ dan
Oh Radhe, Oh Krsna-candra, the very life of Your devotees! Please give devotion unto Yourselves in charity to this fallen sinner.
(4)
bhakti-hina boli’ na koro’ upeksa
murkha-jane deho’ jnana-susiksa
Please do not neglect me because I am devoid of devotion. Kindly give Your most auspicious instructions to this fool.
(5)
bisaya pipasa-prapidita dase
deho’ adhikar jugala-vilase
Your servant is very much diseased with the thirst for material sense gratification, so he’s asking You to kindly give him the capacity to assist in Your divine conjugal pastimes.
(6)
cancala-jivana- srota pravahiya,
kaler sagare dhay
gelo je divas, na asibe ar,
ebe krishna ki upay
This flickering life is slowly drifting away, flowing onward into the ocean of time. So many days have gone by; no more will come, so now I am
wondering how to get back to You, my dear Lord Krsna!”
Song 4 — Petition for Service
“(2)
hrdoya pidita ja’r, krishna cikitsaka ta’r,
bhava-roga nasite catur
krishna- bahirmukha-jane, premamrta-bitarane,
krame loya nija antahpura
Krsna is just like a doctor for those whose hearts are ailing, as He is very expert at destroying the diseased condition of material existence. By distributing the nectar of ecstatic love to all the inimical souls, He gradually takes them back into His own confidential realm.”
Song 2 — Krsna’s Unlimited Qualities (Guna-kirtana)
Sambandha-abhidheya-prayojana-vijanana
(Realization of Relationship with Krishna, Actions according to that relationship, and the Supreme Goal of life)
“As long as the jiva takes full shelter of the Supreme Lord he remains a resident of the spiritual planets, but when he forgets the innate spiritual knowledge about the Lord he is placed outside the transcendental realm. The jiva is compared to a ray of the sun, but under the cloud of maya, or the illusory energy, his conditioned state is an unconstitutional and hence unnatural term of existence. The jiva exists to support and participate in the Supreme Lord’s transcendental pastimes, but his marginal nature makes him vulnerable and can bring him under maya’s spell, to suffer the pangs of repeated birth and death. But as soon as the individual spiritual spark awakens to realise his original self, the dark mist of ignorance, or maya, dissipate, and the long suffering of repeated birth and death at last comes to a halt. He regains his true spiritual identity.”
Sri Sanmodana Bhashyam – Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura’ s commentary on
Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Sri Sikshashtaka (1)
“hari he!
aviveka-rupa ghana, tahe dik acchadana,
hoilo ta’te andhakara ghor
tahe duhkha-brsti hoy, dekhi’ cari- dike bhoy,
patha-bhrama hoiyache mor
Oh my Lord Hari! Ignorance of You is just like a menacing raincloud which hovers overhead and covers all directions, causing the darkness of spiritual blindness to envelop me. From this cloud of ignorance falls the rain of material tribulation, which strikes fear throughout the four
directions. Thus I have become lost and confused in this darkness, and I am absolutely unable to find the right path back to You, dear Lord!”
(Gitamala Song 18, The Power of Ignorance)
Our comment : Back to Krishna, where we came from. The Krishna he sings about, in Vrindavana.
“In the Brihad-aranyaka Upanishad
(4.3.11) it is said:
svapnena sariram api prahatyasuptah suptan abhicakasiti sukram adaya punar eti sthanam hiranmayam purusha eka hamsah.
“The Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is graceful like a swan, wakens the souls sleeping in material bodies and takes them back to His effulgent spiritual abode.”
Amnaya sutra Part 1, chapter 6, Jiva tattva prakarana – The nature of the individual spirit souls
QUESTION: Are all souls of one type, or are there different relative levels?
ANSWER: There are different relative levels among the jivas.
QUESTION: How many levels are there?
ANSWER: There are basically two: the level of the jiva’s real and eternal form (svarupa), and the level of the jiva’s dream of a false material designation (upadhi).
QUESTION: Why don’t all souls remain in their true position, free from material designation?
ANSWER: Those souls who accept nothing other than service as their eternal occupation never lose their transcendental position
(svarupa). Their attraction to Krsna is everlasting. But those who become obsessed with their own separate so-called happiness turn away from Krsna and are
immediately shackled by maya in the prison of the material world.” (VSM 7: Different Levels of Jivas, Seventh Chapter, Different Levels of Jivas)
Our comment” remain in their true position”they were in nitya-mukti, but there” those who become obsessed with their own separate so-called happiness turn away from Krsna and are immediately shackled by maya in the prison of the material world”
“phalgum nirarthakam viddhi
sarvam jadamayam jagat
bahirmukhasya jivasya
griham eva puratanam
phalgum—false; nirarthakam—useless; viddhi—please know; sarvam—all; jadamayam—material; jagat—universe; bahirmukhasya—who has turned his face away; jivasya—of the soul; griham—home; eva—indeed; puratanam—ancient.
Please know that the material world is meaningless and illusory. It is an ancient prison house for the souls who have turned their faces from the Supreme Lord.
Commentary by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
The material world is meaningless and illusory. It is an ancient prison house for the souls who have turned their faces from the Supreme Lord.
The material world created by Maya is a useless and illusory place for the individual souls, who are small particles of spirit. Why do the individual souls reside in this worthless place? The answer to this question is that the material world is an ancient prison for the individual souls who have turned their faces away from the Supreme Lord. Only the souls who have turned their faces away from the Supreme Lord have entered the material world. The souls who do not turn their faces away from the Supreme Lord remain always free from the prison of matter. They do not enter the material world. They stay always in the spiritual world. The Maya-sakti (potency of material illusion) is always under Lord Krishna’s control. As darkness must stay always far away from the shining sun, so the illusory potency Maya must stay always far away from Lord Krishna, far away from the spiritual world. The individual souls who have turned their faces away from Lord Krishna are attracted to the bewildering variety of Maya’s world. In this way they fall under Maya’s spell. In truth the individual souls are always beyond the modes of material nature. But when they fall under Maya’s spell, the individual souls think they themselves are products of the material modes. Then they try to enjoy the pathetic pleasures the three material modes offer. That is the condition of the souls who have turned their faces away from the Supreme Lord. The other spirit souls, the souls who remain in the spiritual world, do not turn their faces away from the Supreme Lord. Only the souls who turn their faces away from the Supreme Lord leave the spiritual world and go to the world of matter.(Tattva viveka,
Dvitiyanubhava, 12)
Our comment : There is no border-fall here. Some souls who don’t turn away, they stay in the spiritual world, but some turn away from residence in the spiritual world.
“The constitutional position of a pure living entity is beyond the gross and subtle bodies. The samvit aspect of the external potency is known in
the scriptures as nescience. Due to this nescience, the gross and subtle bodies of the living entities are created. When pure living entities reside in Vaikuntha, the first knot of nescience, in the form of false ego, does not entangle them. Pure living entities cannot remain steady after giving up spiritual activities. Therefore as soon as the living entities become situated in their own happiness through the minute independence given by the Lord, they become shelterless and are compelled to take shelter of Maya. On account of this, pure living entities have no shelter other than Vaikuntha. The living entities of Vaikuntha are very insignificant, like fireflies in comparison to the powerful sunlike Lord. As soon as the living entity leaves Vaikuntha, he is simultaneously awarded a subtle body and thrown into the material
world, created by Maya.” (Krishna-samhita 2.41)
Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura follows in his footsteps.
“This world is a perverted reflection of the original which is our real home. Instead of passing our time here, we want to go back to our eternal Abode.” (Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 111)
“The Transcendental Sound becomes his sole engagement, he having secured the position of setting himself free from the egoistic exploitations of the phenomenal plane. Such a position would offer him the conception of the Absolute to Whom his only duty would be to offer his eternal services. This stage is known as regaining the true function after the expiry of his term of imprisonment as an enjoyer. Now he is in his proper health to engage himself as the eternal servitor of the Absolute, knowing his own position… The Consort Absolute will wait for the consort servitor. The parent servitor will meet the Child Absolute, the object of his or her only engagement. The eternal friend servitor will regain his position as such.” (Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 193)
“The subjection of the soul to the laws of a foreign mistress is the result of his own deliberate choice. He can easily revert to the state of free existence by the exercise of the same freedom of choice… The soul is a tiny particle of the Universal-Soul. By his constitution he is subject to the spiritual power of the Divinity of which he is a constituent part. When he chooses to function in his own position in the spiritual system and in subordination to the laws of the spiritual realm he is constitutionally free. Whenever he chooses deliberately not to serve the Absolute he thereby ipso facto loses this natural or free state and is compelled to submit to the Divine Will under pressure. This thralldom he learns to prefer to real freedom by the tricks of the illusory Energy of Godhead maya which creates a world by the Will of Godhead in which Godhead makes Himself invisible for the benefit of the
jiva.” (Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, pp. 447-448)
Our comment: “revert to the state of free existence”, the soul was in Krsna’s abode.
“This world is not our original abode. It is meant for certain purposes. After that we are to proceed to our original home. This world is not a desirable place. It is not good to be enticed to stay here for a long time, forgetting our original abode. We stay there with Godhead. We are the eternal servants of Godhead. When we desire to lord it over the universe we are allowed these facilities for temporary purposes. They do not serve our eternal purposes… We should better go back into our own position, to our only Friend.” (Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 493)
“Sri Radhika is the Source of all individual souls whose function is to be employed in the service of Sri Krishna by the alternative methods [of] loyal conscious submission, neutrality or actual opposition. The individual souls serve Sri Krishna as constituents of Sri Radhika. When they forget that they are constituents of Sri Radhika they forget the nature of their own selves, and engage in the abnormal activities of the mundane plane.” (Sri Caitanya’s Teachings, p. 615)
Our comment: The original position of the soul was serving Krishna as a constituent of Sri Radhika.
Question: I cannot understand this world.
Answer: It is camp life. This world is not our original abode. It is meant for certain purposes. After that we are to proceed to our original home. This world is not a desirable place. It is not good to be enticed to stay here for a long time, forgetting our original abode. We stay there with Godhead. We are the eternal servants of Godhead. When we decide to lord it over the universe we are allowed these facilities for temporary purposes. They do not serve our eternal purposes. It would be
better to seek for a place where we can find the real peace. Here we are always liable to be disturbed. By these disturbances Providence wants to teach us that world is not our eternal habitation, but that all real peace is to be found in Him. Being thus troubled we would naturally like to go back to the original place….. But the real truth is that we are to serve Godhead in the five different capacities. It is only when we deem it fit to come down to this world to lord it over other finite entities for our enjoyment that our real position happens to be forgot to some extent. This contingency arises when we want to deprive our Lord. That tendency was innate with us. It led us to prefer this temporal region by our own desire.
Correct Angle of Vision
“The absolute infinitesimal has got his free will, and by his free will he can either pose himself as a forgetful agent or he can awaken himself for his original eternal function of remembering his own eternal exploits” (Forgetfulness of the Humanists
An article originally published in The Harmonist on Sept 19th, 1934 – Vol XXI No.2)
“We are expelled Adams and Eves from paradise…. Dislocated stars like us shooting from the ever-glowing infinite fountainhead of the Transcendence. The shooting stars are again retracted by the same fountainhead through the power of instructions and bliss…. this will carry them back to their original position to be dovetailed with the Absolute.” (Harmonist)
“Real and permanent kindness consists in bringing before the enslaved jivas a true and vivid picture of their natural, free and blissful existence and reinstating them in their true position.” (Daya or kindness to jiva -Vaishnavism -Real And Apparent)
“The human soul is a tiny part of the Divine spiritual essence function-ing in the realm of the Absolute which is free from limitations but liable to be expelled from the spiri¬tual world if it ever forgets its own littleness and abjures the guidance of Krishna. So long as it chooses to be guided by Krishna it is free from limi¬tations or ignorance.” (Harmonist November 1928, The Supreme Lord Sri Krishna Caitanya)
“Having forgotten Krsna, the conditioned living entity is suffering the misdirection and perversion of his own so-called intelligence. The living entities are fragmental parts of the supreme shelter, Krsna , but have fallen from Krsna’s kingdom of spiritual pastimes”.
(Srimad Bhagavatam 11.2.38 purport by Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakur)
“The eternal pastimes that svayam-rupa Krsna performs with His ‘attracted’ associates in Vraja are meant for removing the misfortune of the living entities, so to engage in service other than the worship of Krsna is most unbecoming . Therefore, understanding yourselves as ‘attracted’ in your relationship with the Lord, you should try to awaken your constitutional propensities.’
Purport
Attracted living entities have no propensity other than the worship of that Krsna. The moment the attracted souls are distracted , they glance towards maya from Vaikuntha. At that time the universe is created and material enjoyment overcomes the constitutional duties of the living
entities belonging to the marginal potency of the Lord and makes them averse to Krsna.” (Caitanya Bhagavata chapter 13, text 84 purport of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati)
“The soul functions freely in the realm of the Absolute where it is conscious of its real relationship with Krishna. Its function is crippled, thwarted and distorted the moment it chooses to set up as master on its own account, that is to say wants to play the role of a male.
This perverted activity is stopped on all sides by the resistance of the Absolute Truth. It falls out with everything as soon as it falls out with Krishna. In its attempt to enjoy everything it is punished by those very things which serve to lure them to deeper depths of ignorance by a delusive response to their frantic attempts after sensuous gratification. In the normal state those very objects help them in serving Sri Krishna. To sum up the soul retains its natural condition as long as it serves the Absolute with all the resources of the principle
of self-consciousness. But its will is free. It may not like to serve the Absolute. This is the abuse of its free choice in as much as it is an offense against the principle of pure reason which also is part and parcel of its eternal nature. In consequence of its choosing deliberately to act in opposition to the dictates of reason the delusion
that it is an entity existing independently of Krishna takes firm possession of it. It now finds itself exiled from the realm of the Absolute and functioning in strict subordination to the delusive or material power of Sri Krishna. In this new world the fallen soul tries to please itself with the help of its reason on which it has
deliberately put various limitations. Thus is evolved the principle of the false ego (Ahankara).” (The Harmonist vol. 26)
Thus this Tatastha fall-vada means that when the jiva leaves the spiritual planets, he gets another choice or chance at the border of the spiritual world– material world.
“First location” means after he leaves his home, the first location or stop-over outside home is the border.
Why would the Lord lay down souls in empty sleep forever. He is lilamaya, anandamaya’bhyasat. He wants everyone in His pastimes always. Sarve sukhino bhavantu.
Why would Krsna be so unable as to not have all souls eternally in always expanding ecstatic bliss. Why He needed to evolve and increase His associates gradually. Does He start with zero devotees and then expands, as a king in this world?
This is apasiddhanta. As the Upanishads teach:
om purnam adah purnam idam
purnat purnam udacyate
purnasya purnam adaya
purnam evavasisyate
“The completely Perfect is complete and perfect.”
There is, as stated in Bhakti rasamrta sindhu, a perfect, more perfect, most perfect. (NOD 2.1.221) There is no void in the kingdom of God
(Srila Prabhupada writes in Bg 6.15 purport) which can be filled up.
There is no void or sleeping field to be cultivated or activated. The Absolute Complete perfect Whole has no imperfections.
When responsible parents make babies they don’t store them in ice to hibernate in peace (comparable to existence in brahmajyoti) . So why would All-Love, Sri Sri Radha Krsna have designated their eternal extensions or expansions, their parts and parcels, the souls in the
Brahmajyoti. Better keep them home, the best place, in Krsnaloka.
Brahman existence is always deprecated in scripture.
See:
Existence in brahmajyoti is stunted existence. This is not “pure” liberation but semi-liberation, because there is no Krsna consciousness.
(CC. Madhya 6.269; SB 10.2.32 avisuddha buddhaya — impure intelligence and vimukta manina, they think they are liberated.)
kaivalyam narakayate
kaivalyam—the pleasure of merging into the existence of Brahman;
narakayate—is considered hellish.
For a devotee, the pleasure of merging into the existence of Brahman is considered hellish. (Prabodhananda Sarasvati from Caitanya-candramrita 5)
If any of the conditioned souls desire to become content by merging into that glowing light, then that would be just like being satisfied at night with the glow of lightning bugs in the absence of the sun. The insignificant light emitted by such insects will certainly never serve as a replacement for the radiant sun, and similarly the devotee of Krishna is never content to merge with the Brahman effulgence, which is very feeble in comparison to the Lord’s original form of bliss.
(Song– Merging with Brahman is Foolish
Sings Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
Sanatana Gosvamin Brhad Bhagavatamrta 2.2.215 describes the happiness in the brahmajyoti as monotonous, undeveloped and so vague as to be virtually nonexistent.
In the brahmajyoti there is only sat (eternality), no cit (knowledge) and ananda (bliss).CC.Adi 2.5.
We have no appetite (Ruchi) for the knowledge of Brahman which is restricted to realisation of mere Chit only; for, spiritual sportive
pastimes have no place in it…Brahman is immutable, incorporeal, invisible or formless, without attributes and dry of Prem…It is clear from the above that you never can know the spiritual sportive pastimes of Para-Brahman if you be dazzled by mere Chit-swarup of Brahman which is only a semblance of the eternal light of Chit. Brother! Look forward!! Enter into the Kingdom of Godhead after dashing through the brilliancy of Chit pure and simple — there you will be able to realise the spiritual pastimes of Godhead, then you will be able to taste the ambrosia of an incessant Brahma-Rasa. No longer will your soul remain wooden-like. (Bhativinoda Thakura, Nam Bhajan)
rasa—of the nectar of transcendental mellows; virahitan—devoid, dried-up; dhik—to hell with; gauranga—to Lord Gauranga; pranati— obeisances; rahitan—those who are devoid of; shushka–dry; tarka—logic; adi—beginning with; dagdhan—burned up.
To hell with those who have been burned by the dry logic of the mayavada philosophy. (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
What is the mukti? It is as good as hell. Mukti means to merge into the Brahman effulgence, but there is no service of Krishna. It is simply merging, to become one. Just like sunshine, and if you are put into the sunshine, what benefit do you get? Simply to have scorching heat on, that’s all. What benefit would you get? And mukti is like that. (Srila Prabhupada lecture -The Nectar of Devotion, Bombay, January 8, 1973)
134The great sages named Astavakra, Dattatreya and many other yogis along with the five-faced Shiva, all gave up the philosophy of impersonalism and instead engaged themselves in meditation on the lotus feet of Shri Krishna Chaitanya.Becoming detached from all forms of liberation, they especially rejected the desire to merge in the all-pervading light of the brahman effulgence.
135Sometime I will wander and wander throughout the forest of Rudravan and come to the place called Medra-sthala.Sitting there, I will meditate on the lotus feet of Lord Gaura.Then I will behold a supreme beautiful goddess appearing nearby.
136Acknowledging the presence of this forest-goddess, I will respectfully bow down to her.Getting up, I will ask, “Please tell me, mother – what is your name?”With tears in her eyes, the goddess will sadly reply, “Listen, dear child, my sorrow is impossible to describe.”
137″There are five of us who are daughters of the five kinds of jnana
(transcendental knowledge).We are the five types of liberation – please listen to our names: Salokya, Samipya, Sarsti, Sayuja and Nirvana.I have been given the name Nirvana, for I am the form of liberation involving total annihilation of the soul.
138″My four sisters have gone off to Vaikunthapur, leaving me behind.Thus left alone, I have become bewildered.By the mercy of Lord Shiva, Dattatreya and many other sages were endeavouring to attain me for some time.
139″But now even those sages have rejected me and are living somewhere in Rudra-dvipa.All the people are singing of this incident.Uselessly I have been searching for the rishis and still cannot locate them anywhere!Oh when will I find them again?”
140″Shri Gauranga Prabhu has delivered everyone, yet still He remains merciless only to me.Therefore I will find a place right now in which to give up my life and all people shall know that place to be called Nidaya
(merciless).
141Just by hearing the very name of Sayujya, the liberation of merging impersonally with the Lord, my heart will tremble as if I had heard the name of the witch Putana.Trembling in great fear I will cover my eyes and drop to the ground on the spot.” (Navadvipa Bhava Taranga, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura)
Material suicide causes loss of the physical body, and spiritual suicide causes loss of the individual identity. Mayavadi philosophers desire to lose their individuality and merge into the impersonal spiritual
brahmajyoti existence. (SB 3.14.24.p)
The ambitious Mayavadi philosophers desire to merge into the existence of the Lord, and this may be accepted as sayujya- mukti. However, this form of mukti means denying one’s individual existence. In other words, it is a kind of spiritual suicide. (CC Madhya 6.169 p)
if a living being refuses to engage in these transcendental blissful pastimes, he is at liberty to merge into the Absolute. This is something like a son’s committing suicide instead of living with his father according to the rules the father sets down. By committing suicide, the son thus sacrifices the happiness he could have enjoyed by engaging in a filial loving relationship with his father and enjoying his father’s estate. (Mukunda Mala stotra 4)
If merging with the Supreme Brahman were the living enti¬ties’ ultimate goal, then we would have to imagine that the living entities have been created by the Lord out of cruelty. (Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura Krishna-samhita, 10 Conclusion)
“I am Brahman,”… That is like convalescent stage. Just like a man has no fever but he is not cured. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.6.1, Madras, January 2, 1976)
A pure devotee does not like even to hear about sayujya-mukti, which inspires him with fear and hatred. Indeed, the pure devotee would rather go to hell than merge into the effulgence of the Lord. There are two kinds of sayujya-mukti—merging into the Brahman effulgence and merging into the personal body of the Lord. Merging into the Lord’s body is even more abominable than merging into His effulgence. (CC Madhya 6.268-269)
Caitanya-caritamrita (Madhya 9.267): “Pure devotees reject the five kinds of liberation; indeed, for them liberation is very insignificant because they see it as hellish.”
One who is desirous of merging into Brahman is overwhelmed by the excellence of his unattained goal. When attained, his long cherished wonder in the form of Brahman becomes abominable. One who desires to become one with Brahman is very restless, being bound by material shackles. (BS, Brahmana and Vaisnava, appendixes: The varnasrama of
Vaisnavas)
ajnasyardha-prabuddhasya
sarvam brahmeti yo vadet
maha-naraka-jateshu
tenaiva viniyojitah
“The half-awake fool that proclaims, `Everything is Brahman,’ takes birth again in a terrible hell.”
-Vasishta-sastra
Our comment: According to the Brahmayjoti-fall-vada Krishna kept us cruelly eternally in hell, contracted in wooden-like status, in monotony.
To end, this border-tatastha and nitya-mukta/baddha descriptions also can be taken ontologically and figuratively — as in Bhagavad-gita
dvau bhuta-sargau loke ‘smin
daiva asura eva ca
O son of Pritha, in this world there are two kinds of created beings. One is called divine and the other demoniacBg 15.6
We have extensively commented on this subject in our blog-spot http://fallvada.blogspot.nl

Baul Sangit is a songbook written by Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He writes twelve songs to preach to the Baul sect in Bengal.
The Bauls (lit. “madmen”) would follow illicit principles even though they would chant the songs of Krsna and Lord Caitanya. Their core philosophy also differs with that of Lord Caitanya’s.
The songs are written in the Baul style urging them to change their ways to be pure at heart and worship Krsna.
Bhaktivinoda Thakura signs his name as “Chand Baul” in these songs.
So now it is not only Srila Prabhupada who is engaged in pudding feading, is Bhaktivinoda Thakura also engaged in pudding feading.
Is that what you want to say Puskaraksa Prabhu?
Soon the whole Parampara is engaged in pudding feading. Where will it end?
For our readers’ kind information, I just quoted the introduction to Baul Sangit: http://kksongs.org/authors/baulsangit.html
Now, on a philosophical level and in terms of preaching strategy, as it should appropriately be presented, according to our Vaishnava etiquette, this may mean that our acaryas may have adjusted their presentation in different ways, according to time, place and circumstances.
Indeed, the topic which seems to have been on the mind of some devotees lately, could be such a case where each one may be encouraged to believe what would seem to be favourable to him or her, at a given time, so as to get an acceptable answer according to one’s level of understanding and spiritual advancement, i.e. revelation, so as not to get discouraged and keep moving towards the exit of this material world, which is on fire…!
As a matter of fact, under such circumstances, what matter is not really who has set the house on fire, but how to get rescued from this calamity.
saḿsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-
trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam
prāptasya kalyāṇa-guṇārṇavasya
vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam
The spiritual master is receiving benediction from the ocean of mercy. Just as a cloud pours water on a forest fire to extinguish it, so the spiritual master delivers the materially afflicted world by extinguishing the blazing fire of material existence. I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of such a spiritual master, who is an ocean of auspicious qualities.
So, those who accept the authority of Sri Guru may also accept his conclusion, as Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja did put it:
“Srila Prabhupada has on many occasions made different statements about this subject matter.
He has also himself drawn the conclusion.
When the conclusion is given, it is to be understood that whatever might have been said before, if it may appear to be different from that conclusion, for what ever reason, is now cancelled.
The conclusion is what stands.
For example, Srila Prabhupada gives the following conclusions regarding the origin of the jiva.
‘The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha, for it is the eternal abode.’ (SB 3.16.26 purport)
‘The conclusion is that the origin of all life is the bodily effulgence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead.’ (SB 4.30.5 purport)
What is Srila Prabhupada’s conclusion, that is what I accept. I accept Srila Prabhupada’s own conclusion, that is all”.
The problem is, as I see it, how we accept statements of our spiritual masters, previous acaryas and the scriptures.
One way of doing it, is to see it, (if it to us looks like there appears to be a contradicton in the statements) is to only accept the last statement of the scripture, spiritual master and previous acarya and disregard the previous statements as maybe a mistake, maybe false or whatever strange and then stick to what we think is the last and only true and good statement.
This process is not what I see as the recomended process of studying the the teachings, rather I think this way of studying is a highly unrecomended way a taking in knowledge.
What I see as an alternative is to instead try to see how all statements can fit together and be true all the way thru, how all of them can be true all though they seem on the first glance to contradict each other. This of course takes some more endeavour from the student but I think that is what is expected from us.
Srila Prabhupada writes:
“Prabhupada: Yes, Sometimes it appears to the student contradictory. But actually, the master who is well conversant, he does not say anything contradictory. It is the misunderstanding of the student that sometimes he thinks that it is contradictory.”
(Lecture Bg. 3.1-5, Los Angeles, December 20, 1968)
Srila Rupa Gosvami also writes:
virodho vakyayoryatra napramanyam tad isyate
yatha viruddhata ca syat tatharthah kalpyate tayoh
“When two scriptural statements contradict each other, one is not taken as inauthentic. One should give the meaning in such a way that the contradiction is removed.”
(Laghu-bhagavatamrtam 1.232)
I also accept Srila Prabhupada’s conclusion in SB 3.16.26 and SB 4.30.5 but I also accept Srila Prabhupadas explanation which he makes in his lecture in London, July 30, 1971. SB 6.1.15 where he says:
“Prabhupada: You are already in th spiritual sky, but you are simply covered. Just like the sun is already there. Your are also already there, but there is a cloud which hinders your checking, your seeing of the sun. Similarly… The sky is one, when it is clouded or not clouded. So actually we are always in the spiritual world. But when you forget Krsna by the cloud of illusion, that is material. Try to understand. There is alotted(?)… When the sky is clouded, you cannot see the sun, it does not mean that you are in a different sky. You are in the same sky.”
And I also accept Srila Prabhupadas statement in his lecture which he gave in San Francisco, february 18, 1967, where he says:
“Prabhupada: You are liberated. You are liberated. Simply just a cloud has covered you. Drive away the cloud. There is no question that you were ever. You are ever-liberated. That, the sky is always spiritual,
but it is sometimes overcrowded with cloud, This is called maya. Actually, you are not conditioned. You are thinking.”
In my view does this this fit very well with the idea that no one falls from the spiritual world.
If I have understood you right then your view on “no one” in this case means only some living entieties, but to me Srila Prabhupada’s view on “no one” means all living entities. Also those who are “here”, because “here” is not a different “sky”. There is only one “place” and that is the spiritual world. “Here” is also part of the spiritual world but a cloud has covered our vision so we think we are somewere else than the spiritual world.
The question is do you accept all these statements from Srila Prabhupada also those who I supply, or do you only accept the the statements in SB 3.16.26 and SB 4.30.5 and then with your view on them?
We have to beware that this discussion “doesn’t end up in endless” speculations and word juggling!
For example, on one hand, those who have reached a certain level of understanding and humility may claim that “I am patita”, “I am fallen and Guru and Krishna who are Patita Pavana, only can save me!”
On the other hand, as a spirit soul, we may understand that our nature is sat cit ananda. So how could we claim to be fallen in essence, when our nature is purely spiritual and doesn’t belong to this mortal world…?
Yet, somehow or other, we have fallen into this material world, this prison house of Maya devi, Maya krita karaga. So, even if the prison house is part of the country, those who are imprisoned are deprived of some of their rights, such as freedom, contrarily to others citizens.
Similarly, being with Krishna or going back to Krishna can mean, as Srila Prabhupada explains, being with or going back to our Father – Aham bija prada pita – since we are His parts and parcels.
Thus, this may give us a feeling that we had a beginning, as we emanate from Krishna. Yet, we are eternal. Never was a time when we did not exist. So, how can we reconcile this…?
Similarly, Krishna is full in Himself, yet He is full of love, and love is never satisfied with itself. To taste Himself more fully, He manifests as two—Radha and Krishna. As the sruti proclaims, ekaki na ramate: “Alone one finds no pleasure.” That which resides within Krishna in an abstract sense, as His inherent hladini-sakti manifests externally in a concrete form as Radha. These two, rasa and prema, are in essence one. Krishna is rasa and Radha is prema. One has little meaning without the other. Rasa is the highest taste and prema is the means of tasting it.
So, Radha manisfests Herself. But was there a time when Krishna was without Radha, when Radha did not exist?
In the same way, coming from Godhead and going back to Godhead doesn’t necessarily refer to going back to Goloka Vrindavana or any of the Vaikuntha planets, since Godhead is being known by three aspects, namely Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan.
Indeed, as you may see, these things are inconceivable and beyond the intellectual grasp of a conditioned soul and his/her tools, such as the material mind and intelligence. Hence, best is not to get involved on the false ego platform, in regards to these transcendental and somehow or other, inconceivable topics.
Thus, let us practice trinad api sunicena…
Dear Puskaraksa Prabhu, I agree with you that one should beware so that one doesn’t end up in endless speculations and word jugglery. I also agree with you that one should beware to not get involved on the false ego platform. These are all good advices.
The advice to practice trinad api sunicena… is also a very good advice.
Do you also have an advice on how we should try to follow Rupa Goswamis advise on how to study the teachings of the scriptures? He says:
“When two scriptural statements contradict each other, one is not taken as inauthentic. One should give the meaning in such a way that the contradiction is removed.”
I thought the reason why Srila Prabhupada made all the books and tought his lessons in his lectures was that we should study the teachings and try to understand them. Not that we just read the words and fill the head with them without endevouring to try to understand the teaching.
If you are unsatisfied with my questions or statements and rather see that I don’t continue to ask questions or speak on how I understand the philosophy I will withdraw and try to not cause more disturbance with my presence. I have nothing to gain from making others unhappy.
Please forgive me for my offences, I am just bewildered soul with no good behaviour.
Dear Svarup Prabhu,
Thank you for your kind words and the humble stand you took, as well as for becoming more introspective.
Indeed, concerning these topics, we ought to be humble, as Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself, stated:
ayi nanda-tanuja kiṅkaraṁ
patitaṁ māṁ viṣame bhavāmbudhau
kṛpayā tava pāda-paṅkaja-
sthita-dhūlī-sadṛśaṁ vicintaya
“My dear Lord, I am Your eternal servant, but SOMEHOW OR OTHER I have fallen into the ocean of this material world. Kindly pick me up and fix me as a speck of dust at Your lotus feet.” (Śikṣāṣṭaka 5)
This certainly implies that the explanation of the cause is beyond the reach and cognition of a conditioned soul.
As a matter of fact,
“Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī states in his Bhagavat-sandarbha (16) that by His potencies, which act in natural sequences beyond the scope of the speculative human mind, the Supreme Transcendence, the summum bonum, eternally and simultaneously exists in four transcendental features: His personality, His impersonal effulgence, particles of His potency (the living beings), and the principal cause of all causes. The Supreme Whole is compared to the sun, which also exists in four features, namely the personality of the sun-god, the glare of his glowing sphere, the sun rays inside the sun planet, and the sun’s reflections in many other objects. The ambition to corroborate the existence of the transcendental Absolute Truth by limited conjectural endeavors cannot be fulfilled, because He is beyond the scope of our limited speculative minds. In an honest search for truth, we must admit that His powers are inconceivable to our tiny brains. Material knowledge is far removed from the spiritual nature, and therefore the acts and arrangements of the Absolute Truth are, beyond all doubts, inconceivable.” (Purport to C.c. Adi-lila 2.96)
This being said, concerning some apparent contradictions, interestingly enough, Srila Prabhupada, after having made in the course of his preaching different statements, drew himself his own conclusion.
So, rather than accepting what could be some circumstantial anti-thesis only, we might as well accept Srila Prabhupada’s thesis which happens to be in accordance with his own conclusion, as well as with Krishna’s teachings and the siddantha commonly accepted by our Vaishnava Sadhus and Gurus.
Thus, rather than isolating oneself, a safer stand would be to accept the conclusion, while admitting the inconceivable aspect of this topic…!
Dear Puskaraksa Prabhu,
Yes, let us shake hands :) and be happy, and bow down before our Lord.
I guess we both to some degree have recognized that Krishna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and that is quite something to be happy about and celebrate in brotherly joy.
We may or may not see everything in the teachings in the absolute same manner, but if we try to please Krishna then He will help us with whatever we lack.
You are definitely right in that there are inconceivable aspects of our Lord, and there will always be aspects which will be beyond our capacity to understand. Yes.
We are all individuals with an individual path back home, back to Godhead. And if we manage to come back home with the grace of our beloved Lord we will still be individuals for eternity.
So, thank you for your kind words.
In 1985, by the merciful arrangement of the Supreme Lord, I was assigned to serve Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja during a fortnight in France, on the occasion of his first preaching tour outside India. As I had recognised my eternal saviour and well-wisher, whom I had been longing for during my first five years in ISKCON, on his side, he had mercifully accepted me as his disciple and had started to teach me as my eternal Gurudeva.
So, once, he told me the following:
Guru tells you: “Take it, it’s a rope”, so you naturally bend down to take it. Then, Guru tells you “No, don’t take it. It’s a snake !”. So, you stop. Then again, Guru says “Take it, it’s a rope”, and again “No, don’t take it, it’s a snake…!”
So, which instruction will you follow ?
Logically speaking, you will follow the last one. That is the one that stands!
Similarly, since Srila Prabhupada spoke in different ways, at different times, what stands as final is his conclusion. In this way, Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja mercifully gives us the clue:
“Srila Prabhupada has on many occasions made different statements about this subject matter.
He has also himself drawn the conclusion.
When the conclusion is given, it is to be understood that whatever might have been said before, if it may appear to be different from that conclusion, for what ever reason, is now cancelled.
The conclusion is what stands.”
Nevertheless, dear Svarup Prabhu, you seem to indicate that, as individuals, we are entitled to have our own opinion.
I would agree about the fact that we are eternally different individual jivas and thus can exchange different rasas both with the Supreme Lord and His eternal entourage.
Yet, as far as Tattvas go, we shall probably agree on the fact that Tattva has to be accepted and presented, as it is. So, it is not a matter of trying to become a muni and propose one’s own opinion.
Rather, we shall try and serve the Absolute Truth, Vraje Vrajendra Nandana and His pure devotee, Sri Guru:
evaṁ janaṁ nipatitaṁ prabhavāhi-kūpe
kāmābhikāmam anu yaḥ prapatan prasaṅgāt
kṛtvātmasāt surarṣiṇā bhagavan gṛhītaḥ
so’haṁ kathaṁ nu visṛje tava bhṛtya-sevām
I was fallen into the darkened well of material life, where I was engaged in seeking sense enjoyment after sense enjoyment in bad association. The rishi of the gods, Narada, took me, O Lord, and made me his own. So how could I ever abandon the service of your servant?
(Prahlad to Lord Nrisinghadeva, 7.9.28)