By Praghosa dasa
Question:
My question is in the last sentence. In the last 15 years I’ve spoken with several gurus, sannyasis, and GBCs about the 50% principle for householders. To a man none were interested in lecturing about, or discussing with disciples, the sacrifice of a significant portion of one’s salary. Can you tell me the name of anyone among the GBC or guru community that lectures or advises disciples about giving 50%?
Your servant, Dayananda das
Answer:
Some GBC members have confirmed to me that they do. Others have said that even if the 50% is too much, they strongly encourage grhastha’s to get into the habit of at least giving something on a monthly basis. Others offered comments such as:
1. Srila Prabhupada always based his instruction to give 50% on the example of Rupa Goswami.
2. Rupa Goswami did not give 50% during his householder life. He gave it when he was renouncing householder life and taking to renounced life.
3. He did not give 50% of his income, but rather 50% of his assets, at the time of leaving family.
4. Srila Prabhupada sometimes used the 50% example related to assets and sometimes related to income
Your servant, Praghosa dasa
Giving 50% is really a depressing number, and often a source of extreme anxiety for me over the years. It is also not easy to give money to ISKCON, because often what is given is not appreciated, or even acknowledged. I have given many times over the years, but can’t get my tax-deductible receipts back for example, without lots of effort and prodding.
It is often difficult to get devotees to understand that there has to be reciprocation too. If a business is supporting ISKCON with money, how can ISKCON fail to support them in return with their business? Why are decisions based only on the lowest price?
I was supporting the local temple with thousands of dollars in donations, while they were buying most of their stock for their store from one of my chief business rivals, someone dedicated to driving me out of business. It really took the wind out of my sails and was a cause for ending my support.
I was asked by another local temple to donate money so they could go to India and buy incense for the Deities. I offered to sell them incense at below wholesale prices. They replied it was cheaper to buy in India, so they weren’t going to support me. That was the end of donations for that temple for several years. It is just my principle, if you can’t find a way to support me, so that I can earn money too, how will I be able to support you? Where will the money come from?
Devotees should realize that money is earned through hard effort – blood, sweat and tears. When somebody donates to our movement, it should be acknowledged, at least with some amount of simple gratitude. That’s really all anyone is asking for, but often what I get as my reward from the devotees is nothing. Sometimes it feels like I am donating into a bottomless pit despair and failure, which can never be filled. This is not a very encouraging motivation for me to give. If only you knew how much I, as well as others, have to suffer to make money, then maybe there might be more appreciation.
Here’s an idea that has worked for me though – find a project that you see needs doing, that you can afford to support, that you believe in, no matter how small it is, and then work and pay for it, on a regular basis. It is important not to blindly give your money though. The money you give really has to be spent on your project, and not misappropriated, or your enthusiasm towards this concept will be lost.
During the go-go years of the 1990’s, for example, when our business wasn’t underwater every month, like it has been for the last 6 years, my wife and I paid for all the flowers and garlands, which were offered in the local temple, every day for almost 5 years.
It was very inspiring to me to know that we were personally placing (by our donation) flower garlands on the Pancha-tattva (Lord Krishna, Lord Balaram, Maha-Visnu, Radha, and Narada); personalities who are impossible for us to approach directly, each day, by the efforts of our work.
Now in these lean times I have been donating high-grade incenses, and oils to the Deities. I don’t expect or require that they reciprocate with me, so I keep my donations small enough so that I don’t feel hurt if nobody cares. It’s a solution I found that works for me so that I can keep giving, in spite of past failures.
Earning money without giving in charity for spiritual causes increases our karmic reactions. Srila Prabhupada stated that we have to purify our wealth, by giving in charity. I try to keep turning the other cheek and give something, because I must, in spite of all the problems and difficulties.
The devotee who commented above is insane if he expects temples to buy incense from him at a high rate in exchange for his donations. Why shouldn’t the temple go to India and get the incense at the best rate and quality? Why should they buy from a devotee leech at a higher rate simply to make you profit, so that you will give them a small percentage of that profit back as a donation? Just another example of a devotee who wants to benefit from ISKCON but not sacrifice anything for it.
Tapas – are you for real? Or are you a parody of every Don’tgetitananda das that ever drove a temple into bankruptcy? The guy donates all the flowers for 5 years, and he gets grief in the end? If you do really believe what you are saying, then you seriously need to take some economics courses to get some relativity. If a parody, congratulations, you got me going for a minute.
I donated over $30,000 over a five year period. My wife and I have donated thousands and thousands of dollars on top of this to ISKCON over the 35 years that we have been a devotees. What are you talking about when you say just another example of a devotee who wants to benefit from ISKCON but not sacrifice anything for it?
This is my complaint, expect for one temple here in the U.S., I get no business or financial support whatsoever from ISKCON, but at the same time I am regularly called upon to offer financial support. How am I supposed to make any money to donate? Temple stores and Deity programs need stock, but rather than support our local business, who is a regular donor, they would rather get the lowest price by buying in India, while at the same time requesting my local businesses to support them financially. Why not just get all your donations from the Indian storekeepers where you give your business?
There are many, many yoga ashrams, and spiritual communities all over the country who regularly support our business, but ISKCON gives us nothing. There are hundreds of stores, whom we service regularly who feel our prices are quite fair and reasonable, and who regularly support us.
How can this possibly be an insane request? But, honestly I appreciate your response. It is a good affirmation for me for the future, everytime I get soft hearted and want to give again, because I must I remember that nothing but ingratitude and indignation is going to be my reward.
First try to understand the principle behind the concept of giving a % to missionary activities, anyone with Vedabase can punch in Salary and veiw HDG’s teaching on this.
In one conversation with T K Goswami april 27 1977, HDG clearly points out the principle of learning to work in the spirit of renunciation, after all, at the time of death everything is lost.
Better to give before it is taken away.
However, many of us who did give much more than the 50%, have become much more selective as to whom or where our energy should be directed.
I am tired of seeing my seniors making off with substantial amounts of funds.
I for one no longer wish to contribute to a temple where the finances are not 100% transparent,
Why should they not be? are they not sadhus after all?
I also do not wish to contribute to a temple where seniour management do not wish to disclose their very substantial salaries,
I no longer wish to support managers who claim to be living a lavish lifestyle because “they are in the mood of Pundarika Vidyanidi”
I wonder as to the motivation of such people. I live only 6 miles from my local temple but would rather and do travel 200 miles to support a more satvic community.
I also wonder about the motivation of those householders who choose to live very comfortably off the general public in the name of sankirtan.
I know for a fact that HH Sivarama Swami lectures to his disciples on this subject, with reference to HDG ‘s teachings.
Yes, giving everything to Krishna is our goal but no more indiscriminate blind handouts.
ys mahavidya das
Well said Madhava Ghosh prabhu. Tapas’s comments were very rude and offensive and he would do well to apologise to Suresh prabhu.
Honestly I am very grateful for what Madhava Gosh Prabhu and Devi Dasi have said. The ideal consciousness 0f course is to give in charity without desiring anything in return. This is charity in the Mode of Goodness. I honestly tried my best to help our society financially and did it as best I could, in spite of what seemed to me to be many inequitable situations.
My desire in giving was to become less angry and upset and a more caring and kind human being. Unfortunately for me the opposite happened. The more I gave the more angry and upset I got, so I had to stop giving for a while.
I found for me that I possibly needed to work less and chant more. I am a workaholic, but not keeping up my spiritual practices. Lately I have been working less and chanting more. For me, the most important thing is to have the right attitude towards our movement and towards the devotees. At this time unfortunately, based on previous experiences and misunderstandings, my attitude towards devotional service is somewhat (or perhaps alot) unfavorable.
What gives me hope to continue though is the kindness of devotees. What else do the devotees have to offer anyone but kindness, a little prasadam, and some encouraging words. Really that’s all I ever wanted.
In the corporate world, or even in government fields, buying supplies from a known person at a higher price is illegal. It is corruption plain and simple. ISKCON is not here to make your business run good, nor to engage in illegal corrupt practices. You criticize ISKCON temples for wanting to go to India and buy cheaper incense, instead of buying it from you. Why do YOU go to India to buy the incense cheaply instead of buying from ISKCON? For you to go buy the incense cheaply is good business sense, but if ISKCON wants to go an buy it cheaply then there is something wrong with them. Even after being connected to ISKCON for so long you don’t have a clue as to the purpose of ISKCON. Here’s a hint, it’s not here to make your business a success.
By the way, the act of giving financial benefits to an individual in exchange for his monetary donations (besides being illegal) is the very non-transparent management that would result in thousands of donors suspending further support to a temple. It is amazing that you are expecting an ISKCON temple to engage in illegal activity for your personal financial gain, while at the same time complaining about “transparent management”. Completely amazing!
A thousand curses, I am still human and have made another boo-boo, I apologise,
the conversation I quoted between HDG ACBSP and TKG took place april 28 not 27.
mvdas
Suresh, my understanding of giving money is to the “sankirtana movement,” not a particular project. Thus, I agree with you. After giving hundreds of thousands to ISKCON, I also believe I know how to manage my own donations better than most.
Still, mismanagement aside, Prabhupada often spoke of karma-yoga in terms of offering money. So, I need to respond to Pragosh’s quotes from GBC member’s comments above. All four of the comments are, IMHO, vaporized by Prabhupada’s SB 5.19.7, purport in which he describes Kholaveca Sridhara’s sacrifice of 50% of his income as evidence of his laulyam. I could belabor this point, but will not.
What puzzles me is why sannyasis and gurus, whose extraordinary sacrifices and austerities I’ve viewed for decades, cannot bring themselves to push their juniors and disciples to use significant poritions of their money for propagation of sankirtana.