By Matsyavatara das
One turns to a Spiritual Master asking for guidance and care because someone told him, because he made up his mind, or he is convinced that he is suffering from a psychological, personality ailment or interpersonal problem or simply because he cannot accept the idea of death or suffering
However, health and sickness as well as adapting/non-adapting to the world phenomena are illusionary ideas, abstractions in a Maya context. First of all, you know and have decided that you do not want to âadaptâ to the world of illusion.
I would like to remind you that birth and death, development and decay, health and illness are transitional phases of an embodied life, epycicles of real existence, which transcend the worlds and bodies of objective manifestation.
Normalcy and illness only exist within man, s illusionary vision. In reality, there is only the immense path of spiritual evolution, characterized by vicissitudes, incidents, stages, progresses, stasis, deviations, falls and imprisonments. Certain incidents are isolated and classified by medicine and psychology as âillnessâ. Medicine and psychology study them through an unconscious perspective and do not take into account the evolutionary context in which they unfold. These sciences can still obtain respectable, considerable and useful short-term results, but these are only limited to the symptoms. Medicine and psychology can also have a certain preventive quality, however the foundation and means of their treatments cannot go beyond and reach the substance. This is because they are not contextualized within reality and the process of spiritual evolution, which are sometimes remotely perceivable but mostly invisible.
The Spiritual Tradition (of….) works in a completely different from psychotherapy and psychiatry. A symptom, an inner conflict or the fear of death can hold a completely different meaning from a spiritual evolutionary perspective than within the medical/psychiatric vision.
Man is not simply an organism that must try to stay in or return to good health (this concept itself produces illness). He is a conscious being who has before him a path toward a goal to be reached by realizing the spiritual components of his personality one by one. These include desire and capability of knowledge, joy, sense of morality, beauty, willpower, compassion, wisdom and Love.
In my opinion, real success does not mean producing ânormal peopleâ. It means helping people to free themselves from identification and conditioning, even from ones considered ânormalâ, which in reality constitute the worst among illusions and slavery. It has often been demonstrated that so-called ânormalcyâ is not synonymous to good health, but is in fact a precarious psychophysical equilibrium in itself, often sustained by medication. Obsessions and phobias, depressions, mild and chronic manias, learned incapability, selective blindness, the search for frustrating and traumatic relationships are all syndromes that we do not notice simply because the majority of people are affected by them.
I do not aim at these adaptations.
Authentic psychological cure is something that first happens from within the individual. It is work done by the individual on himself and not something performed by me from the outside.
Pharmaceutical treatments can be effective and even at times necessary. Still, an individual suffering from physical and mental pathologies has one priority: returning to his center, creating inner balance (order) which not only entails healing but also maintaining good health as long as possible. In Ayurvedic Science, illness is synonymous to disorder. Such disorder can only be partially cured by chemical treatments. In other words, pharmaceutical cures only attend to one psychological state at a time in the healing process. An individual can truly reclaim good health if the key component for healing, which starts from within, is reactivated. The well-known saying by Juvenal mens sana in corpore sano should be interpreted as the following: a body can only be healthy if the mind is healthy.
The greatest contribution is therefore to teach individuals how to find truth within themselves, to open themselves to Love and inner conscience, to reconnect to the source, which is our deepest nature, that we have forgotten. Outer changes are only a reflection of our inner transformation of a personal evolution.
In the course of life, each human being is likely to face crises, tensions and emotional conflicts. However these are not negative in themselves; they become a problem when we find it difficult to deal with them and leave them unresolved, which produces a nervous breakdown. By facing them with the right attitude, with consciousness and with strong motivation, they may even represent a catalyst to strenghten our qualities and reach a greater equilibrium, by learning to recognize and overcome our own limits. He who learns to solve the natural tensions that rise from within and those coming from the outside, enables an even more mature and integrated personality to develop, avoiding a chronic state thus finding important opportunities to create further formative experiences. With regards to this, Adler used to explain: â a small difficulty, equals normalcy; a great difficulty, equals neurosisâ. He who is able to recognize oneâs own particular emotional crises and nervous tendencies will also prevent them from degenerating into serious disturbances of oneâs personality. We are constantly busy readjusting our inner tensions. None of us should feel above such tensions; we ought to learn to deal with them in a positive and constructive way, by practicing an process of inner transformation and education so as to help us to harmonize and trascend them. The teachings and the stimulating life examples of balanced people, with a high level of consciousness give us models of inspiration and make it possible for us to do the work we have to do on ourselves.
In accordance with a multi millennial Yoga1 tradition, I offer solutions and instruments, which are different from medicine and psychotherapy as intended in the west. I base myself on a different concept of man, cosmos, health and disease. I awake, develop and speak to the conscience; I teach, point out and educate. I do not treat symptoms and illnesses as a psychiatrist or a psychotherapist would, because I donât see the âsymptomsâ or the âdiseaseâ, but another reality.
I mainly teach the understanding of how the psyche works, how it stops and reactivates, according to the science of Yoga or Union with the Infinite/God.
Biomedical treatments is essentially a treatment of the symptoms in their more or less recurring manifestations and it tends to re-establish a state of ânormalcyâ instead of a state of holistic health, as it is intended in the Yoga2 texts.
On the other hand, the physiological, psychological and ethical-moral cure according to the Yoga that I work with is founded on the sadhana bhakti3, through which the individual becomes introduced to and involved in a reinterpretation of his own image (the conscience of the self and God) by transforming/healing himself and although indirectly, having a very positive influence on his environment.
Yoga, in its various texts, is a psychological system of the interior, but also a way to successfully ascend to the luminous peaks of the super-conscience(higher consciousness?). This provides anyone who has a good Guru (competent and coherent) and who really wants to better himself, to awaken and activate instruments of evolution and curing to even reach enlightenment and Love through abhyasa4 and vairagya5.
However, as long as the individual acts passively as a patient, it is basically impossible for him to trust himself and feel autonomously capable of making decisions. There are individuals that, so as to not face their responsibilities, would like to leave it up to others to decide and dictate how they should feel and act. This constitutes an interference and a serious conditioning or psycho-dependency that we must absolutely avoid, as my goal is indeed to free from conditionings.
In fact, the yogic cure is never administered by a healer to the ill. All psychotherapies that perceive illness as something âto be removedâ and have tried to cure it in that sense, have failed. Scientific proof has demonstrated by now that such psychotherapies are incapable of producing stable and clear results.
Even scientific research now demonstrates that conscience plays a significant role in creating our âhere and nowâ, that the future is predetermined but malleable and that it can be modified because it is made up of opportunities that are not yet crystallized. In this way, our present constantly determines our future.
We must understand and accept that we are responsible for our level of conscience. This is an indispensable component in order to be able to affect real changes within and outside of ourselves. It enables us to fully utilize the enormous potential of self-renewing and self-healing tools of human thought, which are also manifested on the physical level of reality. The deeper and more emotional our beliefs are, the greater the potential for change. This is true for both our physical bodies and our surrounding environment. Prejudices also have their effect, which is negative.
The mental field is somewhat primary with respect to the physical body and works as kind of a map from where the body receives its structural references. In other words, the energetic field is the body version of an implicit order: dharma6, which is constantly working.
So-called memory ghosts (complexes, phobias, obsessions) are the cause of anguishing thoughts, which favor the structuring of the physical reality in accordance with non-ecological and pathological models.
In the same way, the dynamic connection between mental images, the energetic field and the physical body, is one of the reasons for which devotion (Bhakti), knowledge (Vedanta), good behavior, compassion, praying, visualization and meditation are all ways of curing body and mind.
In the science of Yoga7, rupa is the level (bhumi)8 of the form. This includes the mental form and also the psycological9 one, on which the physical body depends. The rupa level itself depends on a superior reality level called vibhuti10. By controlling and dominating the vibhuti level through the practice of yoga, one can understand and solve the problems and illnesses of mind and body, as well as relationship problems, which play a big role in generating painful conflicts. This, however, is only a collateral effect in the process of self-realization induced by the sadhana–bhakti. In fact, the final result is not the elimination of illness (phobia, pain, attachments, criticism and aggressiveness) but the achievement of wellness: illumination, spiritual consciousness, freedom, happiness, LoveâŠâŠ
The teacher-psychologist of the bhati–yoga tradition11 (Guru) awakens human beings to the danger of a materialistic philosophy, leading towards an impersonalistic and egoistic way of life. He is a catalyst for and an inspiration for heightened consciousness. He educates minds and delivers a personalized spiritual teaching to students. The student can then apply these teachings to himself to develop what is already inside him, thus overcoming and eliminating the real causes of his suffering: conditionings (panca kelsha), emotional scars (samskara) and hidden tendencies (vasana). This will free him and allow him to autonomously and joyfully begin once again the journey of Love and Spiritual Realization.
As I have explained many times, I teach Yoga Psychology (bhakti-yoga) through specific and personalized courses to develop knowledge and practical application. My treatment is spiritual and it does not replace medical diagnosis and therapies.
My goal is to create a foundation for communication and significant growth on a personal and social level. This can be achieved through a course of study, research and experimentation provided by CSB for those who desire to deepen their knowledge.
These courses are both flexible and personalized. They are designed to be accessible to all amidst everyday life commitments and done from the comforts of home with the goal of a profound exploration of one’s own inner dynamics.
Today, there are hundreds of participants from all over Italy and the world who have an array of professional backgrounds. In our courses, we make use of teachings pertaining to the Psychology of Yoga but the goal of our work does not limit itself to resolving psychological conflicts. We strive to experience higher consciousness, discover our true nature beyond conventions acquired through identification to false behavioural models which keep us from our full potential and deepest desires.
In addition to distance-learning courses, we offer seminars, meditations, individual exercises, group workshops and consultations with our teachers to accompany students in reconnecting with their true essence, overcome crises/conflicts and rediscover their talents.
The courses thus become a life experience of personal development and self-transformation with the careful guidance of dedicated teachers who practice the values they teach in their own lives.
Note
1. Bhaktiyoga: the teachings of this spiritual science are very ancient. They come from a lineage that, through human gurus, goes back to God. I personally received such teachings from the lineage of Gurus through A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami Prabhupada, a Parampara-guru from the Shri Caitanya Sampradaya, the tradition that I represent, practice and teach.
2. The main ones: Bhagavad-gita, Vedanta, Yoga-Sutra, Katha and Shvetashvatara Upanishads.
3. Literally: âway to Loveâ. It is the path for self-realization, considered by the great masters as the point of arrival and perfect synthesis of all the other ways (in particular karma marga and jnana marga). In sadhana bhakti the science of action, the path of knowledge and wisdom and the supreme way to Divine Love come together. This is how the individual finds himself and rediscovers his eternal relationship with the Supreme One. In bhakti, love and service come together; the devotee and the Deity are tied by reciprocal love and enjoy the same level of bliss. In the Vedic-Vaishnava tradition, Bhakti means devotion and dedication to God in His Personal Form (Vishnu-Krishna).
4. Uninterrupted spiritual practice. Abhyasa is the persistent effort in dominating and controlling oneâs mental and physical activities. After a mostly hard beginning, if the spiritual researcher is able to apply abhyasa with scruple and devotion, this practice becomes a habit. This modus vivendi (way of life) will allow for a psychological detour and will transform oneâs subconscious tendencies (vasana).
5. Emotional detachment. Conscience status in which the individual can overcome his compelling desire for material things, even when physically close to them. This is only possible if the individual is re-contextualized with the universe and has developed a clear and elevated vision of his nature and the of the worldâs nature.
6. Divine social-cosmic order, regulating and sustaining human and universal life (the Sanskrit root dhr, on which the term is constructed, means âhold, sustainâ). Dharma is not an artificial order, which determines the repression of the deep instances of the living being. It is a universal norm, almost a secret code inscribed in the heart of every creature. The breaking of this code produces an unnatural, limiting and pathological condition, which will be inevitably marked by conflicts and suffering.
7. The Yoga psychology uses methods just as rigorous and scientific as the positivistic sciences, however they are adequate to its nature.
8. The Sanskrit term is bhumi.
9. By using the word mental, we refer to the superficial level of mind. By using the word psychic, we refer to the mental structure in its whole.
10. The third of the seven levels called bhumis, described in the science of Yoga. In the case of vibhuti the level is of energetic nature.
-
Cfr. Note 1
For More information:
Centro Studi Bhaktivedanta
It is very dangerous to suggest to people suffering from Depression or other forms of mental illness, that all they need to do is take up Krishna Consciousness, chant Hare Krishna, and all their suffering will disappear. It is a simplistic solution, and can have the potential for great danger, especially if someone is under the Psychiatric care, and taking medication for mental illness. I personally have been suffering from the effects of the above two things for my entire life. Bhakti-yoga is a long-term proposition. Because Krishna is an independent Person, and ultimately the One who awards the results to all our efforts, there can be no guarantees that the process of Bhakti-yoga, or any other mechanical process will work, or when it will be effective.
This lack of definite time for the effectiveness of Krishna Consciousness has the potential to create serious problems for people who suffer from Depression and other forms of mental illness, because their need for relief is so dire and immediate. People who are suffering from this form of disease need immediate relief, or they may commit suicide. Often persons who suffer from mental illness are in a completely irrational emotional state. Their suffering is so acute, but because it is mental suffering, it often doesn’t have obvious symptoms that can be visible to anyone else. I find people who aren’t suffering from Depression, and don’t know how it feels are often quick to dispense such simplistic advice as “just snap out of it”.
Anyone with any common sense doesn’t wish to suffer. If a depressed person could make it all stop, they surely would. No one can stop disease though from coming to us, if it is our destiny to suffer. Nor can anyone say exactly how long they will remain in a sickly condition. Some forms of disease have symptoms which are temporary, and can last a few days or weeks. But some diseases are life-long, and can worsen with the passing of years. I have found through self-observation that what I have isn’t going to kill me, but I also have no hope of feeling better. With that realization of no ability to make the disease stop, or even lessen, I have had to learn ways how to cope with periods of mental suffering. I have been chanting Hare Krishna and practicing Krishna Consciousness for several decades. I often feel great frustration with the process, as a depressed person, and at times feel it is wholly inadequate, and totally hopeless as a solution.
I continue on, because I must, principally because I have had moments, sometimes seconds of relief over the years, and instances of great joy, although such joy has been absent now for many years. I know that I will not gain anything by giving up on Krishna Consciousness, and that things will only get worse for me, especially if I were to return to self-medication. How can we reasonably expect ordinary persons though, suffering from mental illness, to be patient enough to continue on with faith, and be willing to wait years for relief from their suffering?
Escuse me but I would like to draw your attention to the end of Matsyavatara Prabhu essay:
“As I have explained many times, I teach Yoga Psychology (bhakti-yoga) through specific and personalized courses, to develop knowledge and practical application. My treatment is spiritual and it does not replace medical diagnosis and therapies.
My goal is to create a basis for communication and for a significant growth on a personal and social level. This can be achieved through a course of study, research and experimentation provided by CSB for those who desire to deepen their knowledge.”
In my humble opinion this is the the evidence that his theory is not as you said:
“chant Hare Krishna, and all their suffering will disappear”
But that his therapy could be not only complementary but a big support to the western psychological treatments.
Haribol!
Bhakta Rob Prabhu, in the Dandavats article “Who’s to Blame” stated something similar to the point I was making âchant Hare Krishna and all your suffering will disappearâ. I find people who are not experiencing deep and lifelong mental suffering seem to make light of the issue, and often offer simplistic solutions. I guess my question is – is it the business of the Krishna Consciousness Movement to heal the sick? Is it possible to heal disease by chanting Hare Krishna or practicing bhakti-yoga?
Srila Prabhupada stated that if you are sick you should go to a doctor. It is not the business of the guru to heal the sick he said, and one should not approach a bonified spiritual master to heal one’s material diseases.
Everyone can be benefited by practicing Krishna Consciousness. There is always the possibility that Lord Krishna can stop your disease, but we shouldn’t count on it. A blind man or someone suffering from terminal cancer should not reasonably expect to be cured of their disease by practicing Krishna Consciousness. It would be irresponsible for us to advertise that practicing Krishna Consciousness heals disease, because it might lead to more legal problems, if the practice doesn’t bring a cure to one’s disease in a reasonable period of time, or results in death, because of medical neglect.
On the cover of âYoga Journalâ last year headlined an article âthe cure for OCDâ. I was really excited to read the article, hoping that a natural cure had been found that would lessen the effects of the disease. What the article stated though was that there is no cure for OCD. The author recommended that if one is suffering from OCD, Depression, or other mental illness â the cure was âjust snap out of itâ. What a rip off. They made the article just to sell magazines. It was very irresponsible to give out false hope to people suffering from mental illness. Often people who are not actually experiencing the effects of the illness themselves make light of the experience, or its seriousness.
I have no doubts in the competence of Matsyavatara Prabhu (Prof. Marco Ferrini â Ph.D. Psychology) in treating mental illness by combining conventional therapies with the teachings of Krishna Consciousness. The danger is in ordinary devotees, as a result of reading this article, telling people that practicing Krishna Consciousness can cure mental illness or other material diseases. The danger is mentally ill people may give up therapy and medicine in favor of just practicing Krishna Consciousness by itself, based on the recommendation of the devotees. It has happened before that some devotees gave up their medications and just tried to practice Krishna Consciousness by itself, leading to increased severity of their illnesses and even death.
Dear Prabhus,
Dandavat and Hare Krishna. Let’s analyze issues and questions through the shastra. The jivatma is covered by matter, and due to the most subtle energy, ahankara, misidentifies with matter, thinking the body and subtle mind, etc. as the self. We all, however, have karma which comes back to us through the three modes of nature. If you study Bhagavad Gita 13.21, we can understand that all actions and reactions are caused by Material Nature which is controlled by Krishna, but that happiness and distress are caused by the jivatma, ie through misattachment. So, it is true that the jiva soul can live beyond the modes of nature, only if there is superior attachment, cemented through love for Krishna. The modes of nature, action and reaction will continue, as they are beyond our control.
From the utilitarian principles of Srila Rupa Goswami that one should accept that which is favorable for the discharge of devotional service & reject that which is unfavorable for the discharge of devotional service, we must keep our intention to make progress in our spiritual lives. Sometimes, that requires eating, sleeping, and other activities which we ideally dovetail in Krishna’s service. Medical problems, both gross (like cancer, high blood pressure, and the like) and subtle (mental illness) may sometimes require the best treatments that are available at the time for the sake of Krishna’s service. In the world, it is estimated that 1% of the population suffers from schizophrenia, a mental illness that can be improved with proper medication…that can enhance the service capabilities of some bhaktas. Other mental conditions like depression may also me best treated with western medical intervention. Remember, that in the best of hands, the outcomes of medical treatment, remain less than perfect. That is the nature of the world.
As a medical doctor myself, and as a bhakta myself, I sympathize with those who would wish, like some kind of Christian Scientist, that Krishna would heal all the gross and mental illnesses that we suffer through, but I encourage you to re-read the first paragraph above. We need to see things through the shastra to make sense of our conditions, and we look to Srila Rupa Goswami for the principle of utility in bhakti to use a common sense approach to our lives of service in this world. Hare Krishna.
Pusta Krishna das
Dear Suresh Prabhu,
I am, according to modern psychiatry, a sufferer of Asperger Syndrome. My entire life will be affected by this condition, which makes it very difficult for me to make real friendships or spend too much time in the company of others. Nothing will make it “go away”.
In my previous comment on “Who’s To Blame?” I don’t think I was making the point to chant Hare Krishna and everything will be alright, but rather that if we learn to look outside ourselves and try to help others, then we increase our own sense of worth (not pride!) and feel like the world and our own society has a place for us. In fact, I think I was trying to tell someone else that just chanting Hare Krishna by ourselves is not enough.
I say it as an autistic person. I don’t say it as a happy-go-lucky full-of-confidence bravado brahmacari. It’s not an easy thing for me to say at all. Of course, others can argue the rights and wrongs of identifying myself in such a way according to a western definition, but I do so in the same way as I identify myself as a man, or as an Englishman, and so on. I know it’s not who I really am. BUT IT IS what I have to deal with in this lifetime. It’s the best immediate explanation I’ve got for the things I am experiencing in this life, and understanding it in these terms represents my best chance of overcoming some the specific difficulties I face.
I totally agree with you, prabhu, that just ignoring depression and mental illness are incredibly dangerous. Certainly I would never post something that encouraged people in that way. “Disease” is one of the three things that should be dealt with immediately. Just because it’s not something visible like a wound or a broken leg, doesn’t make it any different.
I know how hard it is when I feel that devotees don’t respect the difficulties my own psychophysical nature presents me in my pursuit of Krishna consciousness, and I understand the point you are making. All too often, whether inside or outside the devotee community, mental health issues are viewed as evidence of “weakness” and “maya” and are “blamed” on the individual, who is treated as a culprit rather than a victim.
Of course, we all created our own karma, there’s no escaping that. But since everyone is suffering in different ways, we should all try to do to others as we would be done by. Hence the quote from my friend in my original comment: “Just try to help others.”
Hope this clarifies things.
Your servant
Ro
Just an afterthought – I think the point came up in the other thread that people who have “emotional issues” don’t make good devotees. My points there, and here, are intended to be a refutation of that. People who have “emotional issues” understand what suffering is. That makes them very competent to understand the philosophy, and also to be inspired to help others. Extra determination has to be there on our part. But Krishna is seeing that.
Your servant
Rob
Sorry Bhakta Rob, I wrong and insensitive to what you are feeling, thinking, and experiencing. There is always the danger of ridicule a person potentially subjects himself to when posting in a public forum such as Dandavats. I am just voicing problems and doubts I have thought about for years, in relationship to how to live in Krishna Consciousness, but have had no one to turn to, or to ask, to find solutions.
I have personally gone through a couple of years of traditional therapy, but realized that it was very difficult for my therapist, as well as my PDOC to understand the Krishna Conscious process, or what it was like to live as a devotee. Medical plans donât cover mental therapy. The cost can be prohibitive â psychologists charge $100 per hour, and psychiatrists charge $300 or more per hour, on top of the cost of medicine. A person has to be very rich to be sick in todayâs society. Generally people who really need help must often go without.
The medications available today are sorely lacking in their effectiveness, from my experience, and in speaking to others with similar problems. The medicine only works temporarily, and gradually loses its effectiveness over time. The doses have to be constantly increased, and brands of medications have to be switched from time to time, as the mind seems to overcome their effectiveness. There are also side-effects such as huge weight gain, just as one example. I noticed that the medicine is very impersonal, in that it stops suffering, at least temporarily, but also stops all feeling of all kind. One is no longer able to feel sad, happy, or any form of emotion, contrary to all the joyful, smiling people you see in the advertising media. For relief from what I have, I would have to take such a high dose, that it would render me virtually comatose. Unfortunately, I have to work. I canât stay home all day in bed. Generally when you think of the mentally ill, you envision insane asylums, padded cells, and straight jackets. But there are millions of people who are what I call the âfunctioning mentally illâ, situated in different degrees of their illness. Many people are sick but they must work to support their families and at the same time hide, to the best of their ability, their agony.
Srila Prabhupada stated that there are no honored guests living in the material realm. Everyone here is a prisoner, whether they are first-class, second-class, or third-class in their living standard or type of body. Every person living within the material world is a madman in different degrees.
Really, no offense taken. I can see how what I wrote on the other post would make you feel uncomfortable if you didn’t have the context of my personal situation. The internet is always a bit vague like that.
Yes it is a great struggle. A lot of devotees seem to go through it, either by circumstance or by predisposition, but feelings of isolation are a common factor, for a lot of the reasons you were outlining. Attitude is an area we need to address as devotees when it comes to the suffering of others, whether through mental illness or otherwise. “It’s your karma, prabhu!” is not a sufficiently compassionate response to anything from a genuine Vaisnava. Something more personal and constructive would demand more effort (or even love) on the part of the speaker.
“No crazies, no lazies,” said Srila Prabhupada, and thus I have seen inexcusable attitudes touted by the usual trick of hiding behind remarks taken out-of-context, a tactic familiar in other areas. People with “problems” in ISKCON are distinctly lower-class citizens. But I am neither barking mad, nor drooling at the mouth, nor am I resting on my laurels, nor are many other devotees who are trying to deal with their minds. It might be more complex to accomodate us, but we often have a lot to offer in return, insight being one thing.
I think what Matsyavatara Prabhu suggests here is very nice, although for me it’s a bit complex to concentrate on… no offense, Matsya Prabhu! Krishna consciousness can give us a new sense of perspective and lift us out of a feeling of being condemned to exist within the mind. Or at least it can show us the possibility that it can be so. Light at the end of the tunnel…
What makes me hesitant generally when it comes to these things (and maybe you also, Suresh Prabhu?) is that queasy feeling I get whenever someone approaches me to tell me they’ve “got all the answers” when it comes to my personal situation. It’s part of the reason I feared disclosing it to others. It’s amazing how much damage some over-confident individual can do in the temple corridor, wading into a situation he knows nothing about, and thinking he’s got the one-and-only “Truth”. Suresh Prabhu gave good examples on this point.
Perhaps I’m just a hopeless egotist, but all I want is to be listened to, have my feelings and needs respected, and be facilitated to offer service to the best of my ability. They are desires that I guess everyone would have in ISKCON, right?
YS.
Too often enthusiastic young devotees ignore conditional needs and duties, related to health, financial, family, etc., out of a conviction that Krishna consciousness is the solution for everything.
Krishna consciousness really is the solution for everything, but the process of developing Krishna consciousness from sraddha to prema is a gradual one, and in the mean time, as Pusta Krishna Prabhu has so accurately pointed out, we have to learn to accept what is favorable and reject what is unfavorable.
Beginners cannot pretend to be like paramahamsas who will simply ignore their material bodily necessities like eating and sleeping (or working and providing for their families) due to rapt absorbtion in spiritual trance. We don’t want to be “mithyacaras”. (See, B.G. 3.6)
Instead, we have to work as obligated and properly regulate our senses under the direction of the spiritual master. We fast when obligated, but also honor prasadam when obligated. We take our rest as needed, but not too much. We also of course have to get proper medical treatment when we are ill.
It is good to see the enthusiasm of young devotees, and especially in brahmacaris it is nice to see them trying to minimize bodily maintenance. (Most of the world is cleaning the cage and letting the bird within die).
But if the enthusiasm is not balanced with patience, the danger is that we beginners become frustrated by the process, thinking it too austere, and reject it. We may think the process of bhakti yoga is flawed, when really it was our misunderstanding and misapplication of it that caused our frustration.
The process itself is “simply joyful” (“kevala ananda kanda”). We just chant Hare Krishna, read Prabhupada’s books, take nice prasadam, keep clean and healthy, give up sinful activities like meat eating, illicit sex and intoxication. What could be nicer?
Prabhupada never encouraged devotees to ignore their medical problems or to torture their bodies with over-austerity. Severe austerities are not part of our system. (But you should not be fat and lazy like me). :-)
Now, chanting Hare Krishna certainly can improve one’s health. There is a phrase in Rupa Goswami’s nama-asthikam that even says that by chanting the holy name “all karma at once disappears.” I long for the day when I can chant with such purity.
If there were more Krishna consciousness in the world there would be less mental and physical illness.
But we should get good medical care.
I do not know much about medicine and healing.
Our modern doctors and medical researchers have amassed an enormous amount of knowledge and have developed some very useful techniques.
Of course that is just one tradition, and I am sure that traditional Chinese medicine, for example, can accomplish results in some cases that are superior to or unknown to western medicine, even if it is not part and parcel of the same scientific tradition.
I expect the tradition of western medical science will eventually try to accommodate or incorporate other traditions in its own way, according to its own methods and modes of explanation (Qi or Prana might have to be eventually explained in terms of grosser bodily systems–that effort is already going on — and maybe later western science may come to better accept and explain the existence of subtle matter.)
I do not know anything about Ayurvedic medicine. I can accept that it is Vedic knowledge and therefore more subtle and sophisticated than western science. But I am a western man and, due to my ignorance, convenience (or whatever), I tend to go to a western doctor when I need a doctor (which I hope is not often).
That’s just me. I do not really know any ayurvedic vaidyas and I would have to develop faith that they really know the ayurvedic science properly through parampara and be able to make it work on my body, before I took any significant risks.
I do sense the psyche and the soma are very intricately related, and I do not doubt that there are remarkable mental “miracle” cures in some circumstances. Christian Scientists probably just take this insight to unnecessary extremes.
If bona fide healers can get people interested in Krishna consciousness for ulterior motives, such as to improve their health, their wealth, their education or social standing, or whatever, what is wrong with that? Krishna says that pious people who are distressed or desireous of wealth surrender to Him.
In the famous “on chanting” recording Prabhupada says that by chanting Hare Krishna even your health will improve and “everything will be alright”.
My only concern would be that if people find “new ways” to encourage people to take up Krishna consciousness, and if they do not give the straight philosophy in parampara, or if they give some wrong medical or financial advice in the name of Krishna consciousness (for example), it may bring some bad reputation to Krishna and Prabhupada and ISKCON.
Srila Prabhupada stated so many people may say Prabhupada has said this or Prabhupada has said that – but I have not said. It is very important to always verify if Srila Prabhupada actually stated the words you are quoting from him or not, at least for your own satisfaction. You must be prepared to verify your sources, whenever you quote some scriptural quote, what to speak of a quotation from your guru. I remember as an example a devotee telling me a quote from Srila Prabhupada, but I knew Srila Prabhupada had not said what he was quoting, and that it had instead come from Arnold Eret’s “Mucus-less Diet Book”.
I can’t imagine Srila Prabhupada stating âno crazies, no laziesâ. It doesn’t sound like anything he might have said, but I could be wrong. When or where did he say it? Srila Prabhupada was very compassionate. He always found ways to engage all kinds of people in the bhakti-yoga process, many times in very imaginative, and surprising ways. For instance, he stated that if a person is attached to drinking alcohol, and meditates on how Lord Krishna is the taste in his drink, he will make spiritual progress. Every person we meet, preach to, or sell books to will not necessarily become a temple devotee, so we must use imaginative ways to help each of them gradually come to or understand Krishna Consciousness. The quote “no crazies, no lazies” sounds like something a very enthusiastic book distributor might say, more than Srila Prabhupada. Often when we sold books, at least in the beginning, we would âcherry pickâ the people we thought were the easiest prospects.
The most important thing to remember in relationship to understanding people with mental illness – there probably is no method of completely healing their illnesses. For someone not suffering from the disease, the advice “just snap out of it” seems like common sense to you, but actually it is cruel, because they are suffering from a disease which may not end even after weeks, months, over even years of mental despair and agony.
The other cruel statement is “can’t you just take a pill”? Here is the dirty little secret the medical community doesn’t want you to know: their pills don’t work. Their only purpose is to calm you down enough so that you won’t end your life. That way you can show up for weekly therapy, hopefully for the rest of your life, or at least as long as possible. Psychiatric treatment is a very lucrative business. I asked my PDOC once if he could just prescribe a pill that would give a simple feeling of well being. He replied that if something like that actually existed then he would be out of business.
Thanks for what you’ve said prabhu.
Just for the record, on austerity: a lot of devotees didn’t understand why I was doing “Pedalyatra”, especially in the winter months. But actually, in many ways, I’ve never been happier. I had space, time to myself, freedom to wander at will and opportunity to meet new people.
Severe austerity for me is dealing with living in close proximity to others, dealing with conflict, living in the city, dealing with paperwork and finance, etc. Waking up to see the stars in the sky is for me very wonderful, as is breathing fresh air. They are very healthy for me.
So each person has their own view of what constitutes austerity and must find appropriate service accordingly. Many people advised me to “come and live in London” or “associate with devotees more”. That might seem like good advice, but for me, it’s the worst. It’s way too austere. Constant association or busy environments aren’t what I need. Head-space is at a premium.
Where Pedalyatra wasn’t working is that it depended too much on me being fit and able mentally each day to distribute books. Clearly someone with my nature is not always going to want to do that (though I manage it sometimes) but having money to eat was depending on it. That’s taking it a bit too far. So the formula needs tinkering around with, but I hope to dig it out again one day, once I’ve ridden out this present shockwave.
YS Rob
“Temples and monasteries should be strictly off limits to worthless clubs of crazy men. In the Krsna consciousness movement we welcome everyone who agrees at least to follow the movement’s regulative principlesâno illicit sex, no intoxication, no meat-eating and no gambling. In the temples and monasteries, gatherings of unnecessary, rejected, lazy fellows should be strictly disallowed” SB 7.13.8 purport
Words are very nice, but context is priceless – thanks, prabhu,
This is it – the distinction is sincerity. This is from a letter by Srila Prabhupada:
“Don’t be disturbed in mind. Whatever irregularities you have and with chanting your rounds or with Gayatri Mantra, that you __ to now and Krishna will forgive you.
I am praying to Krishna for steadiness of your mind. I am very encouraged by your work in the Hamburg streets which you sent me a photograph of. This picture was reprinted here and I have shown your example to many friends and temples here. I am sure that if you keep to that spirit you will be a great preacher in the future.”
So mental disturbance should not be the subject of admonishment, but of encouragement, where the individual is trying to act sincerely in Krishna consciousness. Such a supportive atmosphere would be very conducive to the spiritual advancement of all.
dadÄti pratigrhnÄti
guhyam ÄkhyÄti prcchati
bhuĆkte bhojayate caiva
sad-vidham prīti-laksanam
Actually, on the point of context… it’s such a common error we make, to detach Srila Prabhupada’s words from their context. Many devotees have commented on this over a wide range of issues, particularly more recently. If I could be daring to suggest… maybe it would be nice to open up a thread on this topic one day. I’ve heard a lot of great devotees make points on this and it would be nice to read a discussion on it.
Thank you Praghosa Prabhu for clarifying that “no crazies, no lazies” is in fact a true statement by Srila Prabhupada. How embarrassing to have to accept myself as a “crazy person”. I always think of ISKCON as an elite honor society, where only the best are fit to reside. I am always grateful that Srila Prabhupada and the devotees allowed me to serve within ISKCON for so many years, and didn’t throw me out earlier. It seems to work best for me to serve from a distance now.
I never had much personal association with Srila Prabhupada. Mostly I associated with him by reading his books. Occasionally I got to see and hear him in temple lectures. I always desired to meet Srila Prabhupada just once in person and thank him. I envisioned him as kind, gentle, and caring towards me personally. Srila Prabhupada as the Sampradaya Acharya and self-realized soul was completely unpredictable. I would compare Srila Prabhupada to a great general leading a vast military army of devotees. My one personal meeting with him, for initiation was one of chastisement and heaviness. I have had many years to think about my meeting him and all the implications that took place, but still haven’t come to a place of peace with my experience.
I would say the difference between an ordinary devotee such as myself, and advanced devotees in ISKCON is how many times they met Srila Prabhupada, accepted chastisement and criticism from him, kept going, and didn’t give up.
For me though my experience has proven to be an obstacle that is almost impossible to overcome or to recover from.