Atman: Hare Krishna, I am a follower of sanatana Dharma. I have read many books of Sri prabhupada.
I have the following doubts please clarify
1)How is it that nama sankirtana alone wil help in liberation, without the performance of ones swadharma.
2)How is it that Bhakthi marga alone is sufficient, when the performance of karma is needed for chitta sudhi,Yes bhakthi marga alone will suffice if we are so immersed inthe bhakthi to krishna that we lose our body consciousness ;until that state is achieved how can we leav our karma Moreover the karma should leave us and go not otherwise
Please clarify. I am open to discussion in any forum .
Hello. My name is Pusta Krishna das. Your questions are good ones. Of course, everything is fully elaborated in the wonderful books that Srila Prabhupad has published for the benefit of seekers of any time.
I would like to share with some simplicity to the issues. Sanatan dharma or swadharma is described by Lord Chaitanya in this way: jivera swarup haya nitya krishna das. Our true identity and purpose is to enter into a loving service relationship with Krishna, God. The jiva soul is an eternal individual soul whose identity is as a part of Sri Krishna. Although this is perhaps not realizable for all immediately, as the covering of conditioned existence is removed, then one’s pure consciousness, Krishna consciousness, becomes uncovered. It is not an imposition, but rather our full conscious nature. Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in His first of eight important verses of instruction, illuminates us: Ceto darpana marjanam…etc. The consciousness is covered, as a mirror is covered by dust. The chanting (and of course, hearing without offenses) removes the dust of from the mirror of the consciousness and awakens our Krishna conscious nature.
If you will study the eight verses of Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Sri Sikshastakam), you will be blessed with a deeper appreciation of the Holy Names of the Lord. I have personal experience that the Transcendental Sound vibration of “Krishna” is full identical with the Form, Qualities, Lila of Krishna. Krishna can reveal all to us in His own time, by His Causeless mercy. I therefore know that you will not be cheated by practicing meditation on the Mahamantra: Hare Krishna Hare Krishna, Krishna Krishna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama, Rama Rama Hare Hare.
Now the issue of liberation…we have learned from Srila Prabhupad that liberation is the maid-servant of the devotee. Liberation is the final snare of material, self-centric life. We are really followers, worshippers, aspirants of love of God, Prema bhakti. This loving service is the ultimate goal of the individual fortunate souls. Liberation will follow such souls with folded hands. In fact, the bhakta scoffs at the idea of liberation, if it means sayujya or merging into Brahman, with attempted loss of individual identity. That has been described in the Sri Isopanishad as “atma-hana”, spiritual suicide. I would appeal to you therefore to continue to associate with good bhaktas & study the Bhagavad Gita As It Is.
Pusta Krishna das
I am not sure I understand the questions. You seem to feel that Prabhupada is asking you to prematurely enter sannyas asram. Which karma is it that you think Prabhupada is asking you to renounce?
You do not have to change your material position or social status to fully surrender to Krishna.
anasritah karma-phalam karyam karma karoti yah
sa sannyasi ca yogi ca na niragnir na cakriyah (B.G. 6.1)
The idea is to fully renounce the fruits of karma. It is not necessary to change our external position or the duties associated with it. We do not have to stop the act, just change the mentality.
If we fully embrace nama sankirtan, karma will, as you say, “leave us and go.” Then, if Krishna calls upon us to renounce our external duties, we can very easily do it.
Krishna says, “sarva dharma parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja.” We should be prepared to act immediately on Krishna’s order, even if He tells us to abandon some religious act. [We should follow the example of Nanda Maharaja and others who abandoned the Indra-yajna at Krishna’s request and instead worshiped Govardhan Hill.]
But He will not ask us to prematurely renounce our dharmic duties. He asked Arjuna to fight the war and set a good example for the people in general, not to become a sannyasi or mystic yogi. Most of us are not qualified to take sannyas.
Nama sankirtan is the best policy for everyone, regardless of social position or situation.
jnane prayasam udapasya namanta eva jivanti san-mukharitam bhavadiya-vartam
sthane sthitah sruti-gatam tanu-van-manobhir ye prayaso ‘jita jito ‘py asi tais tri-lokyam
“[Lord Brahma said:] Those who, while remaining situated in their social positions, abandon impersonal, speculative knowledge, and with their body, mind and words offer all respects to the bona-fide narrations of Your personality and activities recited by Your pure devotees, certainly conquer You, although You are the unconquerable Supreme Personality of Godhead” (S.B. 10.14.3)
Nama sankirtan is all powerful. It can purify anyone, without need of anything else. The only purpose of executing varnasrama duties is to please Krishna. Otherwise, they are useless labor. (See, S.B. 1.2.8, 1.2.13)
However, people generally should act according to varnasrama dharma in order to satisfy Krishna. Prabhupada wanted to establish daivi varnasrama dharma according to qualification. Not that we should pose as brahmanas and sannyasis without being qualified.
The conclusion that bhakti or devotional service is not dependent on any other process and is its own reward is an oft-repeated theme of Srimad Bhagavatam.
In the beginning of Srimad Bhagavatam, sages headed by Saunaka Rsi inquired about the ultimate and absolute good of all people, and the essence of all scriptures. They recognized that in Kali yuga men have short lives and poor intelligence, that they are lazy, quarrelsome and unlucky. They specifically asked Suta Goswami, at the beginning of Kali yuga, to narrate and explain the pastimes of Krishna and His various incarnations, and asked where religious principles have now gone for shelter, after Krishna had departed the earth.
In the course of asking, Saunaka noted that the holy name of Krishna, which is feared by fear personified, can immediately free one from the complicated meshes of birth and death, even if chanted unconsciously! (S.B. 1.1.14)
Suta Goswami, disciple of Sukadeva, was very pleased to have been asked about Krishna. He explained that Srimad Bhagavatam is the literary incarnation of Krishna, and that people in Kali yuga will get light from this Purana. (S.B. 1.3.40 and 43) Only discussions of Krishna, His name, fame, form and pastimes, etc., are capable of fully satisfying one’s heart.
In S.B. 1.2.7, Suta Goswami explains that jnana and vairagya automatically arise when one performs bhakti, as concommitant or corrolary factors. They do not have to be developed independently. Srila Prabhupada’s magnificent purport to this verse should be studied again and again.
The messages of Krishna are in themselves virtuous, and hearing them cleanses desire for material enjoyment from a devotee’s heart, and devotional service becomes established there irrevocably, driving out all remaining traces of rajas and tamas, and completely enlightening the devotee with scientific knowledge of Krishna in the stage of liberation, by direct perception. (S.B. 1.2.17-21)
The fact is that bhakti, beginning with hearing and chanting, immediately places one in a liberated position.
yan-namadheya-sravananukirtanad, yat-prahvanad yat-smaranad api kvacit, svado ‘pi sadyah savanaya kalpate, kutah punas te bhagavan nu darsanat
“Even a person born in a family of dog-eaters immediately becomes eligible to perform Vedic sacrifices if he once utters the holy name of Krishna, chants about Him, hears about His pastimes, offers Him obeisances, or even remembers Him . . . ” (S.B. 3.33.6)
In responding to the sages headed by Saunaka, Suta Goswami narrates how Vyasadeva, even after compiling all the Vedic literature, the Puranas and Mahabharata and Vedanta Sutra, was still feeling dissatisfied. At that time his guru Narada appeared and disclosed that he had still not properly glorified pure bhakti, that his other works were more or less flawed by the glorification of speculative knowledge and fruitive activities.
Narada said: “Knowledge of self-realization, even though free from all material affinity, does not look well if devoid of a conception of the infallible [God]. What, then, is the use of fruitive activities, which are naturally painful from the very beginning and transient by nature, if they are not utilkized for devotional service of the Lord?” (S.B. 1.5.12)
“The people in general are naturally inclined to enjoy, and you have encouraged them in that way in the name of religion. This is verily condemned and is quite unreasonable. Because they are guided under your instructions, they will accept such activities in the name of religion and will hardly care for prohibitions.” (S.B. 1.5.15)
“One who has foresaken his material occupation to engage in the devotional service of the Lord may sometimes fall down while in an immature stage, yet there is no danger of his being unsuccessful. On the other hand, a nondevotee, though fully engaged in occupational duties, does not gain anything.” (S.B. 1.5.17)
Now, this is not to say that one *should* foresake his material occupation. That is not necessary to perform devotional service. While one’s devotional service is in an immature stage, ideally one’s material occupation (Prabhupada talk of “conditional duties” in purports to B.G. 9.30-31) will run in parallel lines with one’s devotional service (or “constitutional duties”, i.e., duties of the soul proper.) But, it should be understood, the devotional or constitutional activities are of prime importance, and are not dependent on material duties.
Although Kali-yuga is described as an ocean of faults, it has one great quality: that simply by chanting Hare Krishna one becomes free from all material bondage and is elevated to the transcendental realm. (S.B. 12.3.51)
Many people in this age cannot engage in high-grade fruitive activities, yet they can be completely purified by nama sankirtan and all the qualifications will arise in them.
In Kali-yuga Krishna advents Himself in the form of His holy name.
The many verses that describe how one becomes immediately liberated upon chanting the Holy Name, and qualified to perform Vedic rituals despite being born in the lowest of families (e.g., “aho bata sva-paco ‘to gariyan yaj-jihvagre vartate nama tubhyam tepus tapas te juhuvuh sasnura arya brahmanucur nama grnanti ye te” [S.B. 3.33.7]), are not exagerations.
One may then rightly ask, how is it that people who chant repeatedly, every day, may still fall victim to low class behavior and even sinful conduct?
Yesterday we were discussing this question in our temple. The fact is, upon hearing the Bhagavatam, chanting the holy name, seeing the beautiful Deities, associating with and serving the Vaisnavas, or residing in a holy place like Vrndavana, one is immediately in touch with the Supreme Personality of Godhead in the liberated condition. However, it sometimes takes prolonged contact to wash away all the material contamination.
Sometimes, or generally, we chant under prescribed regulation, but we do not chant always. When we stop chanting, by force of habit, an immature devotee may fall into bad association, and by influence of that association may revert to bad behavior. However, such devotees will very quickly become purified and steady, being directly noted by the Lord for their devotional activities:
“My dear Vyasa, even though a devotee of Lord Krishna sometimes falls down somehow or other, he certainly does not undergo material existence like others [fruitive workers, etc.] because a person who has once relished the taste of the lotus feet of the Lord can do nothing but remember that ecstasy again and again.” (S.B. 1.5.19)
Also, there are offenses to be avoided in the matter of chanting Hare Krishna and performing devotional service. If one is not vigilant to avoid the offenses, particularly the “mad elephant” offense of vilifying other devotees, one’s progress in devotional service can be severely checked, uprooted, destroyed. So devotees have to be very careful not to commit such offenses.
In responding to the question (about devotees falling down), Vaisesika Prabhu described several statements of Srila Prabhupada.
One devotee asked Srila Prabhupada privately about having difficulty following the regulative principles, and Prabhupada replied that it was like a baby learning to walk. The parents understand there will be some slips at first. Vaisesika said that we must become “nistha”, fixed, then we can progress steadily. .
Vaisesika recounted how a disciple asked Srila Prabhupada about how it was that “big devotees” were falling down, and Srila Prabhupada replied, “‘Big devotees’ do not fall down.”
We read the following from Srila Prabhupada’s Purport to Sri Isopanisad, Mantra 17:
“Srila Bhaktivinode Thakur explains these verses in this way: ‘One should regard a devotee of Krishna to be on the right path of the saints, even though such a devotee may seem to be su-duracara, a ‘person of loose character.’ One should try to understand the real purport of the word su-duracara. A conditioned soul has to act for double functions — namely for the maintenance of the body and again for self-realization. Social status, mental development, cleanliness, austerity, nourishment and the struggle for existence are all for the maintenance of the body. The self-realization part of one’s activities is executed in one’s occupation as a devotee of the Lord, and one performs actions in that connection also. One must perform these two different functions along parallel lines, because a conditioned soul cannot give up maintenance of his body. The proportion of activities for maintenance of the body decreases, however, in proportion to the increase in devotional service. As long as the proportion of devotional service does not come to the right point, there is a chance for an occasional exhibition of worldliness. But it should be noted that such worldliness cannot continue for long because, by the grace of the Lord, such imperfactions will come to an end very shortly. Therefore, the path of devotional service is the only right path. If one is on the right path, even an occasional occurrence of worldliness does not hamper one in the advancement of self realization.'”
Getting back to the S.B. 1.2.7 Purport (sorry for skipping around), Srila Prabhupada points out that it is wrong to think that bhakti is meant for those who cannot perform high-grade activities like sacrifice, charity, austerity, knowledge and mystic powers. Rather, because bhakti is the topmost transcendental path, it is simultaneously sublime and easy. “It is sublime for the pure devotees who are serious about getting in contact with the Supreme Lord, and it is easy for the neophytes who are just on the threshold of the house of bhakti.”
In the modern world, many of us cannot properly perform difficult practices like mystic yoga and Vedic sacrifice, but the *highest* path of bhakti is still open to us.
Sorry to be writing comment after comment about this. Pusta Krishna Prabhu’s short comment was beautiful and to the point. But I can’t help but try to write down the many thoughts that arise when contemplating your questions, even though I may not be able to organize them or compose them well or succinctly.
I am thinking about the Eighth Chapter of Bhagavad Gita, which ends with verse 28: “vedesu yajnesu tapahsu caiva, danesu yat punya-phalam pradistam, atyeti tat sarvam idam viditva, yogi param sthanam upaiti divyam”
Prabhupada translates “yogi” in this verse to refer to one on the path of devotional service. In context it is clear that is what Krishna is referring to. Prabhupada tells us this verse sums up the Seventh and Eighth Chapter.
In much of the Eighth Chapter (starting at verse 5), Krishna responds to Arjuna’s question (in 8.2.) about how the devotees, (the “niyatatmabhih”, or self controlled) can understand and know Him at the time of death.
In Chapter 7, verses 28-30, Krishna talked about those pious people (punya-karmanam) who, being completely freed from sin, engage in His service with determination, taking shelter of Him, knowing Him to be the adhibhuta, adhidaiva and adhiyajna, even at the time of death.
Earlier in Chapter 7 He described four kinds of pious people (sukrtina) who become His devotees. He does not counsel us to act impiously (of course). Just to dedicate all our works to Him in devotional service.
Therefore in Chapter Eight He clearly instructs Arjuna to remember Him and at the same time fight (“mam anusmara yudhya ca”) (B.G. 8.7). Pabhupada comments, “The Lord does not say that one should give up his prescribed duties or engagements. One can continue them and at the same time think of Krishna by chanting Hare Krishna. . . ”
Krishna goes on to describe how such rememberance in unalloyed bhakti transports one to His own abode, which is not destroyed like the material world which periodically comes into existence and gets annihilated. (8.14 – 22)
He describes how some yogis, passing away under the right circumstances, attain Krishna’s abode (from which one doesn’t return), and other yogis, passing away under wrong circumstances, do return (after attaining the moon planet). (8.23-26)
But the devotees (“yogi” here is properly translated as devotee) are never bewildered. One can just do bhakti and not worry about anything else. He will go to Krishna’s trancendental abode. (8.27-28).
I guess I should not have left out the translation to verse 8.28:
“A person who accepts the path of devotional service is not bereft of the results derived from studying the Vedas, performing sacrifices, undergoing austerities, giving charity or pursuing philosophical and fruitive activities. Simply by performing devotional service, he attains all these, and at the end he reaches the supreme eternal abode.”
It is not that devotees are forbidded to study Vedas, perform sacrifices, undergo austerities or give charity. Rather, they do these things as offerings for Krishna, with bhakti, always remembering Him:
yat karisi yad asnasi yaj juhosi dadasi yat yat tapasyasi kaunteya tat kurusva mad-arpanam
“Whatever you do, whatever you eat, whatever you offer or give away in charity, and whatever austerities you perform — do that, O son of Kunti, as an offering to Me.” (B.G. 9.27)
“Some learned men declare that all kinds of fruitive activities should be given up as faulty, yet other sages maintain that acts of sacrifice, charity and penance should never be abandoned.”
“O best of the Bharatas, now hear My judgment about renunciation. O tiger among men, renunciation is declared in the scriptures to be of three kinds.”
“Acts of sacrifice, charity and penance are not to be given up; they must be performed. Indeed, sacrifice, charity and penance purify even the great souls.”
(B.G. 18.3-5)
Krishna goes on to describe the three kinds of renunciation (in ignorance, passion and goodness) (B.G. 18.7-9). In the mode of goodness one performs his prescribed duty only because it ought to be done, and renounces all material association and all attachment to the fruit. (B.G. 18.9)
With respect to renunciation in passion, Srila Prabhupada says, “One who is in Krishna consciousness should not give up earning money out of fear that he is performing fruitive activities. If by working one can engage his money in Krishna consciousness, or if by rising early in the morning one can advance his transcendental Krishna consciousness, one should not desist out of fear or because such activities are considered troublesome.” (B.G. 18.8, Purport)
Anyway, I would like to hear the questioner respond to this discussion. If karma is needed in some stage for cleaning the consciousness (e.g., for most men, the marriage sacrifice is necessary, so that his mind can become peaceful for spiritual advancement), then Srila Prabhupada approves. (B.G. 18.5 Purport)
Good Question. Most practical. Even i have similar doubts.
In short, we say that Karma yoga which is Performing one’s own swadharma as per our jati and guna is a process which helps one in cleansing the mind. Chitta Shudhi happens.
A person who undertakes to perform Karma yoga gets involved in daily activities but tries to do it as an offering to God without any selfish expectation of reward. He is always alert and aware of God when performing actions. This knowledge that his actions are for God purifies his mind. He derives the benefit of Chitta Sudhi or purity of mind. Since he gradually controls his senses and learns to remain unaffected by desires, greed, anger, etc., and cultivates Satwa Guna, he refrains from talking ill of others.
Hence when in sattwa, he strives for Jnana since that is the best platform.And then one might engage in the path of sankhya or Bhakti and attain perfection.
Some philosophers might stress that Jnana alone gives bhakti
While it may be 100% true and in accordance with Gita, you might be excited to know that Gaudiyas are not much bothered about this kind of moksha(5 types).
Also Bhakti is not ashtanga yoga as some schools define.–Please note
Though in our day to day affair we might call ‘offering our activies to Krishna as bhakti”.In definition, Bhakti means an activity that is favorable to Krishna and uniterrupted and DEVIOD of JNANA and KARMA.
This means that this bhakti is not in mood of a duty or something that gives moksha.
Gaudiyas are more interested in process that directly serves or appreciates krishna like the nava vidha bhakti and lesser in indirect process mentioned in varnashrama like nitya karmas etc.
—
The nature of a living entity is too difficult to be suppressed.
Krishna says ‘Even a man of knowledge acts according to his own nature, for everyone follows the nature he has acquired from the three modes. What can repression accomplish?”
Sri Viswanath goes a step forward to mention that while karma yoga and jnana yoga helps purifying the impure and pure hearted souls respectively,neither can help a super impure soul. But Bhakti comes in refuge for those people giving them superior benefit than those derived from jnana or karma
All said, When i look into myself, i am sure that i have no reasons to ‘Skip’ the nitya karma whichever i do.
I am sure no one is in a situation that calls for one of either bhakti or nitya karma to be done.
We have allthe time in the world to do Hari Nama Keertanam and also nitya sadhyavandam etc.
After all, these duties are from the Veda which is the breath of Maha Vishnu. His perfect plan for a suffering soul!! Better we follow that.
Also i havent seen any bhaktas in the puranas who might have skipped their swadharma .Though in theory they agree and in practise also they might be ‘qualified’ to SKIP varnashramic duties on account of their intense bhakti,they still follow for the SOCIETY to follow.So we see janaka maharaja etc following their nitya karmas without fail though they are ideals of bhakas
In situation when a devotees misses such nitya karmas on account of being immersed in bhakti,it is said that the rishis perform duties on our behalf.!
So this rightly justifies the importance of nitya karma and the superiority of bhakti.
Dasan
Haribol Dasan,
Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
I agree that this is a most interesting question and an important topic, especially in connection with the perennial issue of establishing daivi varnasrama dharma within ISKCON and eventually instructing the population in general on this great science of social organization for pleasing Krishna and helping everyone make spiritual progress.
It so happens that yesterday in San Jose the Saturday Bhagavatam class was on verse 1.9.26: “At Maharaja Yudhisthira’s inquiry, Bhismadeva first defined all the classification of castes and orders of life in terms of the individual’s qualifications. Then he systematically, in twofold divisions, described counteraction by detachment, and interaction by attachment.”
We had some lively discussion of the verse and purport, as you can imagine. The question of what Bhismadeva explained about “interaction by attachment” naturally came up.
In the Purport, Srila Prabhupada says that “the whole system of asrama-dharma is a means to detachment.” But he also says that “household life is for one who is attached.” “One who fails to assimilate this spirit of detachment is allowed to enter into family life with the same spirit of detachment.”
In the purport to the very next verse, Prabhupada explains that a brahmacari should perform sacrifices, a householder should give charity (“a householder should be prepared to give in charity at least 50% of his hard-earned money”), and the vanaprasthas and sannyasis should practice penances and austerities.
These are some of the performances of one’s swadharma which Srila Prabhupada did not discourage. Rather, Prabhupada always emphasized that the goal of all such actions should be pure bhakti.
Prabhupada did also emphasize that our swadharma is not determined by jati, or what family line we are born in, but by guna and karma. “The varnas are, so to speak, classifications of different occupations, and asrama dharma is gradual progress on the path of self realization.” (S.B. 1.9.26 Purport)
We had a laugh in class, reflecting on the fact that all of us who work to please some boss and are maintained by the salary he gives us (which described almost all of us) are essentially servants, or sudras, regardless of what family we come from.
But the most important thing is to worship Krishna and somehow make everything we do an offering to Him, with bhakti.
As per Sri Viswanath: One needs adhikar to give up swadharma. In BG, sri Krishna
says Arjuna doesnt have adikar for pure bhakti and hence giving up his fighting. However later in sarva dharman verse he get ‘Special Mercy’
Offering one’s pay check is not Uttama bhakti(Yat Karosi ,asnasiis not uttama as per viswanath)
Also there is no instance or advice in Veda to give up the swadharma though there are glorifications of bhakti which will take care of such “misses” in performing swadharma,.
Nor are we like Madhavendra Puri who says krishna and his mother in his courtyard to say we dont have time for Nitya anushtana.
Also Veda is like our mother. Their instruction are apt for us. Hence we definitely wont go astray if we follow their instruction.
Please note that all swadharmic actions dovetail with vishnu aradhana (sandhyavandana, srardha etc)Hence the famous ‘watering the roots’ analogy is rightly understood by people following karma yoga or atleast the vedic texts that prescribe such duties.
However in this present world,the means of earning a living is so difficult and changed that we often end up doing a job which is not our actual ‘prescribed’ Job.
This however is never an excuse for one to give up his daily duties like sandhyavandana or pitru karma.Indeed the present and previous acharyas have still recommended everyone to follow few basic anushtanams (just like Srila prabhupada relaxed 64 rounds to 16 rounds ).
it all depends on how conservative we are and how best we can approach the situation practically!
While we understand the supremacy of bhakti and it trascendental position to Jnana and karma,we need to have our own status quo and follow accordingly.
Wrt Jati and varna,’Pure Devotees’ surpass all the varna and jati rules.so there is no reason for them to do a brahminical job(as explained by viswanath on the SB commentary for dog eater performing soma yajna).They are simply not interested.So he doesnt perform soma yajna!However Jiva goswami comments that the devotee needs to take a New Birth.Viswanath says the reason why we see exalted devotees in lower varnas can be due to vaishnava aparadha.–I understand this is a huge topic. Lets keep it short .
Hence a sadhaka performing Karma Yoga which means offering one’s results to God is safe and protected under the loving guidance of Sri Krishna.
Dasa
Dasa(n),
Some part of your text above need a translation in my view. While nothing is completely off the wall, some bits really need some clarification. Obviously there are two different svadharmas, one for someone who is born into a functioning varanasrama society, and yet another to someone who was born in the times when there is none, and the caste system is rather a sore in the eye. So before going any further can you clarify what you have just said (at the same time keeping it short). It is possible that you talking in the same dialect of English with the person who asked the question, but it appears that your reply is raising more questions that it answers. Kindly revert. With regards,
“. . . However Jiva goswami comments that the devotee needs to take a New Birth.Viswanath says the reason why we see exalted devotees in lower varnas can be due to vaishnava aparadha.–I understand this is a huge topic. Lets keep it short .”
No, no. Please let’s make it much longer. :-)
What does Jiva Goswami say about devotees born in low families needing to take a new birth? I never heard that before. Please tell.
I find this topic (performing one’s “swadharma” versus having adhikara to simply perform pure sadhana bhakti) fascinating.
It is clear, though (isn’t it?), that one’s “swadharma” is not determined by the family one is born into. At least it seems clear that SBSST and Srila Prabhupada gave brahminical initiation to people born in non-brahmana and even non-Hindu families, and engaged them in deity worship and performing fire yajnas, etc.
Now what of an exalted devotee who, let’s say due to vaishnava aparadha, happens to have been born in a “lower varna” family. If there is a social need for such devotee to take up the duties of a brahmana or rajarshi, and the spiritual master engages him in such a way, he must do such duties. Right? Even though within himself he may be engaged in intense Krishna smaranam and have no personal need for such duties.
It is interesting that so many of Lord Caitanya’s eternal associates, like Haridas Thakur, Ramananda Raya, Raghunath Das Goswami, Govinda Das, etc. came from “lower varnas”, and others, like Rupa and Sanatana Goswami, though from exalted families, had lost their caste by serving Yavanas.
Why did the Lord exhibit His lilas like this, in these kali yuga conditions, with the most exalted transcendental personalities appearing in families of Muslims and kayasthas and ostracized brahmanas? It seems like a fruitful question.
It is also interesting that while Lord Krishna instructed Arjuna at first in terms of svadharma (as if he did not have adhikara to give up fighting), that even after he got “special mercy” in the “sarva dharman parityajya” verse, the Lord still engaged him in fighting (whereas Srila Prabhupada points out there is no history of Arjuna ever taking up asthanga yoga meditation).
In establishing daivi varnasrma, won’t we expect to see some who, although qualified to act as paramahamsas, nevertheless play the role of grhastha farm laborers and craftsmen?
And didn’t we see Prabhupada engage rank neophytes from the lowest of families in preaching?
1)How is it that nama sankirtana alone wil help in liberation, without the performance of ones swadharma.
Answer: One’s swadharma irrepespective of it being karma jnana etc.,will give results only when there is an element of bhakti.This is since bhakti is the only element which is beyond gunas.This element of bhakti is what makes Jnana and Karma valuable.
While Karma yoga , Jnana yoga and bhakti Yoga gives moksha,the kind of results obtained are based on the amount of bhakti present(pradhani Bhuta bhakti as menioned by sri viswanath)
Also Bhakti transcends all 5 types of liberation.
SO in short, it is indeed the Nama Kirtana which actually fetches one bhakti!
2)How is it that Bhakthi marga alone is sufficient, when the performance of karma is needed for chitta sudhi,Yes bhakthi marga alone will suffice if we are so immersed inthe bhakthi to krishna that we lose our body consciousness ;until that state is achieved how can we leave our karma Moreover the karma should leave us and go not otherwise.
Answer:You are right.You should not give up swadharma until you have the mercy of an ekantika bhakta .Until then you should be performing your nitya karma as an offering to Krishna.
Please refer viswanath’s commentary of BG 2:40-45 which constitutes definition of bhakti and its transcending nature.(Esp Traigunya vishaya veda)
Arjuna was also not considered eligible for Pure bhakti .Hence in Karmanyeva adhikar verse Krishna says he is eligible for Nishkama Karma(Ofcourse it is more of a lila).
Now who is eligible for bhakti BG: 7-28 answers:
Those who have punya karma and destroyed sins partially develop sattva guna and tamo guna reduces .Hence they become less attached and get a chance of sadhu sangha .Then by practise of bhakti they become free of sins.Hence being steady,the worship me .
In short it is the sadhu sangha that gives seeds of bhakti.However performing nitya karma helps one to get a chance.Ofcourse in one sense Lord is swarat and he can bless any one and break rules like he did for arjuna at the end of Gita.
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Dear CCD,
Bhakti is the only process thats nirguna(beyond modes) .A person qualified for bhakti is not dutybound to perform any varnashramic rites(if he was born in varnaashrama system).However for society’s eye, we may see him performing such rites.
Please let me know where i am not understood properly or needs more explanation.
Prefer mailing me @ scooty.ram@gmail . I really take a long time to say something precise.
Dear Akruranatha prabhu,
Wrt Jiva goswami’s explanation,here it is .I think this is from durgama sangamani .
kintu yogyatvam atra
svapacatva-prapaka-prarabdha-papa-vicchinnatva-matram ucyate.
savanartham tu gunantaradhanam apeksata eva. brahmana-kumaranam saukre
janmani yogyatve saty api savitra-daiksya-janmapeksavat.
savitradi-janmani tu sad-acara-prapter iti savane pravrttir na
yujyate. tasmat pujyatva-matre tatparyam ity abhipretya tika-krdbhir
apy uktam anena pujyatvam laksyata iti. tathapi jati-dosa-haratvena
prarabdha-haritvam tu vyaktam evayatam.
“This verse is only meant to describe how the prarabdha karma of a
dog-eater is destroyed by hari-nama. A dog-eater is worshipable as a
brahmana who performs Vedic sacrifices but he is not eligible to
perform them. Although brahmana-boys do have the good karma that
grants them the right birth, they cannot perform the Savana sacrifice
unless they receive Savitra initiation. And although the dog-eater is
freed from all sins by his chanting of the holy name, he can still not
perform the Savana sacrifice because his lack of sad-acara (ritual
purity) disqualifies him from receiving Savitra initiation. He must
wait until his next birth for that.”
I guess it is a proper translation.I had copied this text 3 years before.Unable to find the exact site i got this from.
In fact most of the alwars had low birth
Dasan
Btw i would like to know if the person who asked this question is following up on this still.
Please feel free to question!
“. . . And although the dog-eater is
freed from all sins by his chanting of the holy name, he can still not
perform the Savana sacrifice because his lack of sad-acara (ritual
purity) disqualifies him from receiving Savitra initiation. He must
wait until his next birth for that.”
Thank you Rajagopal (scooty.ram) for quoting this.
I am not sure what Jiva Goswami actually means here. It may be that the purified dog-eater waits for his next birth out of consideration for the mentality of smartas, so as not to disturb the social prejudices of those around him.
(And, as you have pointed out to me elsewhere, he has no need, nor should he even want, to perform such sacrifice. The holy name is a completely sufficient purifier, without the need of any Savana sacrifice. Indeed, to consider the holy name to be on a par with karma kanda activities is a great offense to the holy name, which is far superior in every way to material sacrifices.)
For example, Srila Haridas Thakur, considering himself lowborn, did not enter the Jagannatha temple, and we have also read how in similar humility he refused to take prasadam with the other devotees. It was not “required” in any sense, but he accepted the social prejudices of his time as an impetus for his own ecstatic service.
And Lord Jagannatha Himself, in His most merciful form as Lord Caitanya, would visit him daily at his place of bhajan, so he was getting darshan without entering the temple.
But in our time, Srila Prabhupada has engaged people, regarless of birth, in preaching the bhakti cult and accepting certain brahminical duties such as worshiping the Deities and lecturing on Vedic scriptures.
He wanted us to establish varnasrama dharma, but not in the manner of the decadent smarta caste system (which has earned a well-deserved terrible international reputation.)
But truly Srimad Bhagavatam is aimed at paramahamsas who have graduated from all fruitive rituals and “kaitava dharma”. (1.1.2) It is significant Sukadeva Goswami was “anupetam apetya-krtyam” (1.2.2) (It was glorious that he did not undergo purificatory initiation or ceremonies).
It may also be significant that Suta Goswami was, as his name implies, of mixed-caste. Although it is fully pleasing for paramahamsas, Srimad Bhagavatam will give light to all fallen people of Kali yuga, although our birth and activities are often irregular in many ways. Prabhupada writes, it is “both simple and sublime.” (1.2.7 Purport)