Jagabandhu das: I am most grateful to a good friend for the recent reminder of Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta, Sri Ramananada Raya and his conversation with Mahaprabhu. For several decades the first verse of Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta has been the Sri Guru pranam mantra which I use to pay respects to Sri Gurun (the plurality of gurus), all others and God Himself. I often think of Sri Ramananda Raya’s transcendental indifference to mundane sensuality. Especially because our 18 year old autistic daughter now often requires help getting clothed. Thinking of Sri Raya Ji helps me to turn my senses off. As if they were momentarily deadened. In order to steel myself to act as an impartial caregiver to our daughter.
Recently, Sri Guru has caused me to reflect deeply much upon the penetrating notion of finding innate goodness everywhere inspite of apparent external malific incongruities. I am caused to ponder that Mahaprabhu’s true lineage is a paramahamsa succession. And how true devotion and and inner development caused many of His saintly successors to contemplate that the only deficiency was within themselves. It’s a wonderful thing to experience (without being neurotic): that if I examine the world I can find no fault—but if I examine myself I can find nothing of value. This was the mood of Mahaprabhu and Sri Rupa. Which emphasizes the unequivical irrevocable reality that true positive and progressive life eternal is introspective in spite of all exoteric inclinations to turn spirituality into an extrospective process consumed by the spiritually unhealthy pre-occupation of making critical observations about others’ ostensible, aspirant spirituality.
Lately, I’ve been spending considerably less time online and more time with our garden. Gardens are such nice metaphors for spiritual life. How green is my garden? Is it getting sufficient water and nutrients (or too much)? Are weeds troubling the fledgling creepers? Are there other pests or predators which might injure the creepers? How healthy is is the soil? Is it fertile for growth? Do the roots go deep? Or are they rotting, thereby resulting in inevitable inherent decay of the hopefully healthy plants? And as I struggle to cultivate my own fledgling garden (as a beginner gardener) why should I concern myself with possible flaws in my neighbor’s garden?
Contemplating in this way I feel myself becoming much more introspective than ever before and I can find no fault with the world, but many faults within myself. As if my primary spiritual concern was the thorn tree in my garden. And that the thorn tree was me. With the only personally resolvable problem of aspirant spiritual development being within myself.
What a nice example of effort and motivation is presented by Jagabandhu and his wife. Although living some distance from Alachua, and having accepted the responsibility for caring for their daughter, he is always trying to center on Krishna. It is not escapism, but rather the mature realization that everything else is transitory and to that extent unreal. Srila Prabhupad used the expression “phantasmagoria.”
While Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu personally associated with His paramahansa eternal associates, we must try to place their examples upon our heads. It is true that when young, the senses are much more untamed. By nature’s arrangement, it becomes progressively more realizable to be peaceful. However, if one pours fuel on the fire of material desires repeatedly, then the challenges to tame the senses will become much more difficult in later years. I like to think that we are, by Srila Prabhupad’s grace, in the school of real reality, Krishna consciousness. Tests are presented regularly with life’s passing.
In the past several weeks, I participated in a discussion with young bhaktas (teens, 20s) about how we can try to take our Krishna consciousness with us outside the temple, and into every aspect of our lives. Truly, that is the way of sadhana throughout the day. Strengthened by the regular chanting of rounds, participation in temple programs, and especially with the association of sincere devotees, the aspiring bhakta must try to contemplate Krishna throughout the day and the night. If we are fortunate, then Krishna will kindly ‘intrude’ into our forgetful minds and take His seat there, while we go on preparing our hearts for His loving residence.
Jagabandhu Prabhu’s feeling of finding the faults within himself and not in the world, is expressed in so many ways in the devotional poetry of the vaishnavas. We sing these bhajans regularly. However, it is a fine line. We want to diminish our self-consciousness, and magnify Krishna consciousness. I asked one advance vaishnava this question. We understand that we are eternally individual souls, but in the spiritual world, are we aware of our individuality. His reply: No, we forget ourselves because of the All-Attractive qualities of Krishna’s beauty and charm. Like iron filings attracted to a Magnet! Pusta Krishna das
I would say that because we are eternally part and parcel of Krishna as distinct individuals, the awareness of our unique individuality and the uniqueness of our particular relationship with Krishna is never lost or forgotten after achieving the spiritual world. Of course, in the liberated state, one is not self-absorbed. Rather, one is absorbed in thoughts of Krishna. Thinking, feeling and willing continue in a purified state. The difference is that Krishna is the object of our thoughts and feelings. If He is the object, then we must be aware that we are separate from Him, in other words, aware of our own individuality.
“Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings. Nor in the future shall any of us cease to be,” indicates an ongoing awareness that we are individuals
even (and especially) in the presence of Krishna. Ego means identity, and the absence of false ego, the last covering of the soul, means there is awareness of one’s individual spiritual identity in the presence of Krishna.
I remember on a morning walk in Geneva that Srila Prabhupada said we would recognize him in the spiritual world. That means we would recognize his individuality as well as our own.
These are just my thoughts on the subject, but I am not an advanced vaisnava and am riddled with faults, so please excuse my offenses.
Your servant,
Locanananda dasa
Achintya-bhedabheda tattva. The jiva souls are one with Krishna yet maintain their separate identity. However, that self-awareness is lost in the transcendental love for Krishna. This is not a mental thing, but rather the plane of ecstatic love, anandam-buddhi-vardanam…We want to “drown” in that loving ecstasy. And, since our senses are part and parcel of Krishna’s senses (hrishikesha-hrishikena sevanam bhaktir ucyate, then these loving transactions are the moment to moment currency of Goloka.
We must go forward, and never retreat, from our destiny, yet we know that it seems impossible. Hope against hope…how can Krishna, the greatest of the great, be so merciful to ever take me into His loving entourage!?! That is Krishna’s beautiful mercy. He enters our heart, and She (Srimati Radharani) blesses us with service of the sweetest variety. Her only wish to please Him, She may exploit our existence for His pleasure, as only She is able to do. Sri Gurudeva is considered an intimate servitor of Srimati Radharani.
Sriman Mahaprabhu first states that this is “achintya” or inconceivable. Do not try to save a morsel of false ego, ahankara, and expect to gain His favor. Through Sri Gurudeva’s grace all is possible. We are being invited to the all-conscious reality, not the material world of exploitation. Guru Krishna prasade paya bhakti lata bija. There has been so much talk of institution as late in these pages, and that form may serve the external needs more than the internal needs of vaishanavas. It is the mercy of the vaishnavas that softens the heart and allows the arrows of that transcendental Cupid, Sri Krishna, to pierce our weary hearts with His merciful glance. More than any thing, the association of bhaktas can clear the obstacles to gaining the loving service of Krishna. We have repeatedly read of the wonders of association with devotees, how miraculous is the effect. And, we have heard that the mercy of Nityananda’s Lotus Feet may open the way to service to Sri Sri Radha Krishna. Guided by Sri Gurudeva, the expansion of Nityananda Prabhu, we are blessed with sure success in our spiritual life.
Matters such as these are very joyful and refreshing. Alas, it is our connection with Sri Gurudeva, the external manifestation of Nityananda Prabhu (Sri Sankarsana) and the intimate servitor of Srimati Radharani, that revives the sleeping jiva soul. We must not try to become our own guru. Humbly submitted, Pusta Krishna das
While we lose our false identity as enjoyers and masters of material energy, liberated devotees do not lose the sense of having an individual identity. Rather, self-realization implies recognizing who we truly are in connection with Krishna.
Pure devotees may have a sense that “I am Krishna’s chariot driver” (Daruka), “I am Krishna’s mother” (Devaki and Mother Yasoda), “I am Krishna’s guru” (Sandipani Muni). One cowherd boy says, “I’ll touch Krishna first,” and another says, “No, you can’t, I will.” These things involve a sense of identity, although it is not an identity as a separate enjoyer.
Knowledge of one’s spiritual identity as eternal servant of Krishna (and eventually realization of ones specific eternal relationship in servitorship, friendship, parental or conjugal) impels highly advanced devotees to perform devotional service in various ways.
“The relationship between the living entity and Krishna is fixed eternally; it cannot be forgotten, as we can see from the behavior of Arjuna. Although Arjuna has seen the opulence in the universal form, he cannot forget his friendly relationship with Krishna.” (B.G. 11.41-42 Purport)
I have heard that some Gaudiya Vaisnavas find fault in the Mirabai bhajans because of the repeated theme that she only knows Krishna and nothing else. The idea of losing consciousness of one’s individual identity (and of Krishna’s millions of associates, gopis, gopas, cows), seems akin to the “merging” or sayujya mukti, which pure devotees never accept.
In fact, Gaudiya Vaisnavas not only aspire to continue serving Krishna as individuals in an eternal spiritual relationship, but also to do so in the association of Krishna’s other devotees.
We become “one” with Krishna in the sense of having no separate motive other than pleasing him. The example is given of green parrots flying into a green tree. It is not that they cease to be parrots. To distinguish ourselves from impersonalists who prefer to extinguish their individual existence and commit “spiritual suicide”, we usually stay away from using words like “merging” or “forgetting ourselves” when describing our spiritual goals.
But I imagine forgetting our false egos in ecstasy can be like forgetting ourselves. Sometimes under the urgent impulse to serve Krishna, gopis fail to properly put on their makeup or dress correctly. That might be what Pusta Krishna meant. He and Locanananda are both advanced devotees.
Jnana, theoretical knowledge…vijnana, experienced knowledge. The ecstatic love of Krishna, the beauty of Krishna, lower knowledge to the subordinate level. Jnana-sunya-bhakti. This is a practical reality, that we are now philosophizing about, but which, upon entry to the World of Krishna consciousness, is the realm of rasa. It is both qualitatively and quantitatively acintya, inconceivable, to us in the conditional state. Liberation without Krishna, brahma bhuta, is not enough to satisfy the hunger of the bhaktas for Krishna’s sweet love.
The jiva soul finds itself Home in that supreme loving environment. But, the beauty of Krishna, the sweet attractiveness of Krishna, the ecstasy of love for Krishna, surcharged by the internal potency of the Lord, fills one with love and self-forgetfulness. If Krishna will engage us in His service in one or another rasa, we shall be filled with serving Krishna in that manner with transcendental reciprocation of love.
One another note, I was listening to the Chaitanya Charitamrita recitation (Amala Bhakta das) today and it was the part where Mahaprabhu, in sending the Bengali devotees back to Bengal after their visit with Him in Puri…in that, Mahaprabhu describes that He must have been crazy to have taken sanyas…after all, a Son’s duty is to serve His mother. Here, it appears that rasa has come up to tug a Mahaprabhu, since His mother in her rasa as His mother, attracted Mahaprabhu to reciprocate with her. The exchange of rasa is not a mundane exchange. It takes place in the plane of pure consciousness and devotion. We can see here how even Lord Chaitanya feels, as Sri Krishna, the reciprocation of love with His eternal servants. It is very sweet. It is very perplexing. When we hear how Mahaprabhu reciprocated with His mother by visiting her mystically, we can be assured that Krishna loves His devotees and does not abandon them. Even if there appears to be a gap in space or time, we must know that Krishna is all-knowing and ever-reciprocating with His loving servants. This is so hopeful for us all.
Pusta Krishna das
I did write another reply to my friend Akruranath Prabhu’s reply #4, and I have no doubt that it will be published here soon, but I feel strongly that these points must be discussed. “Merging/forgetting oneself”, these terms are not Mayavadi terms necessarily. Love for Krishna, ‘with hairs on end, with consciousness literally lost in the beauty and ecstatic love for Krishna’ does indeed indicate that the jiva-soul is absorbed in Krishna consciousness. It is not a loss of self, that is not possible in Krishna consciousness, but an abandonment to the principle of loving Krishna. This type of exclusiveness is characteristic of the love in Braja. When qualified love will be present, ie, I love Him because He is God, then that is the realm of Vaikuntha. The braja-vasis do not care for themselves. They are fearless and absorbed in Krishna consciousness. That is the perfection of self-realization, ie relationship with Krishna, in the ontologic sense.
Make no mistake, please, to think that self-forgetfulness in Krishna consciousness is some kind of mayavad conception. No, it is higher love for Krishna. Krishna philosophically explains that the jiva souls are in Me and are Mine (mamaivamsa jiva loke). They indeed have no separate existence outside of Krishna, and yet are simultaneously subordinate to Krishna, of course. To enter the realm of Krishna prema, we must be prepared to abandon all for His loving treasure. There really is no material equivalent. But, please understand, when you consider your writings, that I am no mayavadin. The bhakta will wholesale reject sayujya mukta when offered it, time and again. He will seek out Krishna to the end of eternity. Never will the bhakta fatigue of searching out Krishna. Even if tempted with brahman liberation, the vaishnava will scoff in the midst of brahman, asking “where is my Krishna!” These are high ideals which must never be foreign to either aspiring or advanced vaishnava souls. And, please understand this clearly, the jiva soul forgets himself in the presence of Krishna because they have no other option…Krishna’s love inundates the jiva soul, drowning them in His love, and exciting the jiva soul to go deeper into His love if He will permit it. Such loss of personal interest for the favor of Krishna’s interest, is the sanatan-dharma, the jaiva-dharma. What more can be said.
Pusta Krishna das
At the Joshua Tree japa retreat in January, Giriraja Swami related that another devotee (Bhakti Tirtha Swami?) described the difference between real humility and low self esteem as follows:
“It is not that the humble person thinks less of himself, but that he thinks of himself less.”
I very much like Jagabandhu’s formulation of
“the unequivical irrevocable reality that true positive and progressive life eternal is introspective in spite of all exoteric inclinations to turn spirituality into an extrospective process consumed by the spiritually unhealthy pre-occupation of making critical observations about others’ ostensible, aspirant spirituality.”
He said a mouthful. It is also very true that, as he indicates, internet discourse often takes the form of criticizing each other’s statements, trying to subordinate them to our own.
But it does not have to be that way. “Kathayantas ca mam nityam tusyanti ca ramanti ca.” Part of Krishna consciousness is rediscovering the art of blissfully talking with devotees about Krishna.
In yesterday’s San Francisco Ratha Yatra at the Q&A booth, some people came who were simple and friendly, but other people who seemed highly qualified by education (one aging hippie with a “poetry” button on his T-shirt, who said he knew Alan Ginsberg, and one 24-year old well-versed student of Therawad Buddhism) were simply unable to enter into the spirit of Krishna consciousness because they came with the preconceived notion they had nothing to learn.
It reminded me of the “wise old owl who lived in an oak, the more he saw the less he spoke, the less he spoke the more he heard…”
These poor people seemed highly qualified in many ways, but because they came to the tent to criticize Krishna consciousness and with the preconceived notion that this was some dogmatic religion and they were superior, there was very little we could for them.
The guy with the poetry button especially, I tried to present that we have a great culture, that this is a cultural festival, full of the world’s greatest poetry (as if on cue some angelic children on the far stage atarted singing Jagannatha astakam). But he wanted to condemn that the Bhagavad-Gita is a war mongering book, that Arjuna shouldn’t listen to Krishna because everyone is equal and no one can be a guru, etc. Poor soul. He just couldn’t listen.
It was a visible demonstration to me of the dangers of false pride, how I might be missing something of great value if I can’t listen.
Still, they were carried to that venue by none other than Krishna. We cannot fully know with whom we are conversing. We may be sowing the seeds of bhakti for a future entry into the line of devotion in this life or the next. In the Bhagavad Gita also, Krishna reveals in one of the seed verses, tesam evanukampartham…that He enlightens us from within. Naturally, so many people saw and heard from Srila Prabhupad directly or through his books, but all (actually, very few) have not taken to Krishna consciousness. Still, it is our duty to be spiritual physicians, “hate the disease, not the patient.” That will help us to see all as suffering jivas in this world.
We too must constantly search for Krishna, whether awake or asleep, for we are in great need of that aushadhi or medicine of the Holy Names. We are so fortunate to have been given a place in Lord Chaitanyadeva’s Sankirtan Movement. And, the Dandavats forum gives us an opportunity to remember things Krishna consciousness, even if we go at it like munis sometimes. Really, the information that comes out in these discourses are generally of a very high and satisfying nature. No ones feelings should be hurt. We each see Krishna slightly differently, just as the braja vasis see Krishna differently, just as the crowd of the Mathura wrestling match of Kamsa saw Krishna differently. We each see Srila Prabhupad uniquely as well. This is the nature of individual interaction with Guru and with God. That is the beauty of the Personal conception as well. We will progress to our proper destinations by Krishna’s arrangement. Nothing will inhibit that, however many lives is required. But, our good fortune was created by Krishna connecting us with vaishnavas, again and again.
When I was in South Africa and a little discouraged at first in “making numbers of new bhaktas” to help perpetuate the movement there. I asked Srila Prabhupad whether I should instead just read and study the books. He told me to go one preaching, because I would be benefitted by hearing and chanting. Not to be concerned with the results. They may manifest later as they obviously did in South Africa.
Speaking of preaching in San Francisco, I met one young man who has been trying to read Srila Prabhupad’s books on Hippie Hill weekly in San Francisco. Amoghalila das and he previously wanted to start a preaching center in SF. It is definitely long over-do. Pusta Krishna das continued
continuation…
I also spoke with Vaisesika das, and you could also see the gleem in his eye when talking about re-establishing a preaching center in the city. So, lets see what we all can do together to make this a reality. ISKCON San Francisco in 2009-2010.
Pusta Krishna das
Yes, a lot of people at Ratha Yatra seemed to be talking about getting a preaching center going in “the City” again. Acarya Candra and his wife Aruni already have some regular meetings going in the Russian community, and I know Guru das has some interest.
[I think I even read an announcement that Ratha Yatra Das had already opened a preaching center there. (?) I don’t know if it’s ISKCON and whether it’s still going. I feel ashamed about not knowing and about not having visited, but it is a little far for me, at least 1.5 hours drive, plus parking problems.]
Even if we do not establish an actual center with daily deity worship, there ought to be regular programs in different people’s houses (such as a weekly “Sunday feast”-type program, whether or not on Sunday) and some regular harinama and book distribution.
Bhakta Jorge lives in San Francisco. Satyadeva Prabhu and Dilipbhai Patel both live nearby in Pacifica. I don’t know where Banabatta is staying, but I think he is in the Bay Area somewhere. At least I saw him out on harinama in Haight-Ashbury on Friday. And there are certainly many other devotees who live in SF, some of whom go regularly to the Berkeley or San Jose temple, and others who don’t.
Vaisesika is not far, in Burlingame near the SF Airport (of course he would be by the airport). :-) But he is already spending an enormous amount of energy managing the San Jose temple along with his many other duties. Still, if Vaish wants to make it happen, surely it will.
When I lived in SF there was still the Carl Street center that I think Banabatta, Varuna and some others had opened. The BI was taking care of it at that time (1991), which meant it was full of educated devotee gentlemen and it was great!
I have heard that Srila Prabhupada was upset that the devotees moved the SF temple to Berkeley without even notifying him first, but that is ancient history. Still, San Francisco is an important and unique American city, and I always wondered whether “New Jagannatha Puri” referred to just the ISKCON temple there (which moved across the Bay), or whether (as I am inclined to think) Srila Prabhupada named the entire city of San Francisco “New Jagannath Puri”.
Given where I live (and you too), though, I would like to see San Jose temple a little more secure and no longer renting before Vaish and the gang gets too distracted starting something new…
Until a small core of bhaktas might live in a preaching center in San Francisco, it might be possible to have a rotating group of Krishna conscious preachers go to the City and regularly give inspiration and guidance to interested souls. Whether renting or owning a place in San Jose, Time waits for no man. With the passage of days, there may be many new vaishnavas coming into being in San Francisco. We who have some experience with carrying Krishna consciousness to the far reaches of the world have to look beyond the walls of the temple to perform sankirtan. This will also inspire the devotees of the San Jose community to see the magical service that comes with spreading Krishna consciousness. The edifice of Sri Sri Radha Madanamohana will manifest in due course by higher arrangement. I would certainly volunteer to go up to San Francisco at least once a month for giving classes and helping new bhaktas to develop their Krishna consciousness. With just 4 or 5 of us doing so, and with a few fully dedicated individuals in place in the city, it is possible to give rebirth to a preaching center in the important city of San Francisco. There are some devotees living there already who will possibly come to the forefront in their now later years to help give life to themselves and to others. Pusta Krishna das