Prabhupāda: Even if we vegetarian are, then how you become big? The goats are vegetarian. Huh? Apadāni catuṣ-padām. This vegetable is meant for the catuṣ-padām, for the animals, four-legged animals. If somebody says that “Why shall I take this vegetable? It is meant for the animals. I shall take the animal.” That is a good argument. Yes. So, to become vegetarian is not ahiṁsā at all. It is a bogus theory. To become a devotee and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, that is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26).
Prabhupāda: Susil Kumar. He went to San Francisco. He met me there. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So he has come back, so I inquired what is the result of his preaching.
Viśāla: All glories to Prabhupāda!
Prabhupāda: He said that he has converted one million persons to be vegetarian. So vegetarian, automatically our disciples, they are automatically vegetarian. There is no separate preaching. And what about the… He was talking about the ahiṁsā. And I told that vegetarian does not mean ahiṁsā.
Prabhupāda: No, no. No interpretation. They say that “no killing.” So no killing is not possible. That is my point. Then where is the thesis stands, that “We are for not, no killing”?
Dr. Patel: Every action, sir, is, I mean, entangled in this.
Prabhupāda: So then our Vaiṣṇava’s philosophy is perfect, because we take Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don’t say vegetables. We are not advocating vegetarianism. We are advocating that “You take Kṛṣṇa prasādam.” How perfect it is. We are not so nonsense that “Because we have become vegetarian, we are perfect.” The goats are vegetarian.
Student (8): How important is your diet?
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is a very important thing. If you read Dr. George Bernard Shaw’s book, You Are What You Eat, you see. So if you eat like human being, then you can increase your qualities of human being. If you eat like cats and dogs, you increase the quality of cats and dogs. That’s all. So we must have discrimination what to eat. That is there in the human world. Eating is there, but everything eatable. Even stool is eatable by a certain kind of animal, but that does not mean that stool has to be eaten by human being. Human being must have discretion what kind of food will be just suitable for my health, for my intelligence, for my brain. So these things are prescribed. If we eat things which are in goodness… They are prescribed in the Vedic literature that wheat, rice, sugar, milk product, vegetables, fruits, these things are in goodness. So if you want to increase your quality of goodness, that is required for God realization. Unless you are situated in the quality of goodness, you cannot be promoted to the higher platform. So your eating should be arranged within this group: rice, wheat, sugar, milk product, vegetables, and fruits. In your country you have got enough nice grains, nice fruits, enough supply of milk, butter. So there is no question of accepting any other food. You can accept foodstuff within this group and become healthy and good brain, good conscience. You can engage yourself in God consciousness. That is possible. So therefore “Discrimination is the best part of valor.” We should discriminate what kind of food we should eat. We cannot eat anything and everything. That discrimination must be there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She is asking, “What is the difference between killing a plant and eating it and killing an animal and eating it?”
Prabhupāda: The same fault. Either you kill animal or plant, the same sin is there just like if you kill an uncivilized and if you kill a big man, the punishment is the same, hanging. You cannot say that “I have killed one uncivilized man.” No. That you cannot do. Similarly, you cannot kill even plant. But we have to live. Therefore we can kill plant under the order of the Supreme. Just like I have already explained. Kṛṣṇa said, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Patraṁ means plant. So Kṛṣṇa wants it. So, for Kṛṣṇa’s sake we can do that. Just like Arjuna did. Arjuna did not like to kill his brothers, but Kṛṣṇa said that “This is My desire.” “All right, I shall kill.” This is Kṛṣṇa-bhakti. When Kṛṣṇa says, we can do everything, not for our personal self. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. That another crude example: just like a soldier. When he is fighting by the order of the state, he is getting gold medal and killing. His business is killing. But the same man, when he comes home, if he kills one person, then he is hanged. Why? He could say that “My business is killing. I am soldier. I have killed this man.” “No. This is for your account. On the battlefield you killed for the state’s account; therefore, you were eulogized. You were given reward.” Similarly, we can kill only on the order of the Supreme. Otherwise we cannot kill even a plant. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says, yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ. Yajña means for the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord, whatever you do, you are not implicated with sinful activities. And bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). And a person who is doing on his own capacity, he is simply acquiring sinful resultant action. So the conclusion is: even a plant you cannot kill, what to speak of bigger animals. If one thinks that “I am killing only plants; therefore, I am very pious, vegetarian,” no. There is no question of vegetarian, nonvegetarian. They are equally sinful. Only those who are taking prasādam, they are free from sinful activities. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ.
Another significant phrase in this verse is nātihiṁsreṇa (“with minimum violence or sacrifice of life”). Even if a devotee has to commit violence, it should not be done beyond what is necessary. Sometimes the question is put before us: “You ask us not to eat meat, but you are eating vegetables. Do you think that is not violence?” The answer is that eating vegetables is violence, and vegetarians are also committing violence against other living entities because vegetables also have life. Nondevotees are killing cows, goats and so many other animals for eating purposes, and a devotee, who is vegetarian, is also killing. But here, significantly, it is stated that every living entity has to live by killing another entity; that is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one living entity is the life for another living entity. But for a human being, that violence should be committed only as much as necessary.
A human being is not to eat anything which is not offered to the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santaḥ: one becomes freed from all sinful reactions by eating foodstuffs which are offered to Yajña, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. A devotee therefore eats only prasāda, or foodstuffs offered to the Supreme Lord, and Kṛṣṇa says that when a devotee offers Him foodstuffs from the vegetable kingdom, with devotion, He eats that. A devotee is to offer to Kṛṣṇa foodstuffs prepared from vegetables. If the Supreme Lord wanted foodstuffs prepared from animal food, the devotee could offer this, but He does not order to do that.
We have to commit violence; that is a natural law. We should not, however, commit violence extravagantly, but only as much as ordered by the Lord. Arjuna engaged in the art of killing, and although killing is, of course, violence, he killed the enemy simply on Kṛṣṇa’s order. In the same way, if we commit violence as it is necessary, by the order of the Lord, that is called nātihiṁsā. We cannot avoid violence, for we are put into a conditional life in which we have to commit violence, but we should not commit more violence than necessary or than ordered by the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
And Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). “A leaf, a flower, fruit and liquid, milk or water, all these things, within these categories, whatever a devotee offers Me in love and devotion, I eat.” Kṛṣṇa says.
So our proposition: If you inquire, “Then why you restrict, “No meat-eating’?” The answer is that actually we do not make any distinction between the meat-eaters and the vegetable eaters, because the cow or the goat or the lamb has got life, and the grass, it has also got life. But we follow the Vedic instruction. What is that? Now, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and you can enjoy whatever is allotted to you. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. You cannot touch others’ body, others’ property. You cannot touch. That is Vedic life. So in all scriptures it is stated that man should live on fruits and vegetables. Their teeth are made in that way. They can eat very easily and digest. Although jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: one has to live by eating another living entity. Jīvo jīvasya… That is nature’s law. So the vegetarian also eating another living entity. And the meat-eater, they’re also eating another… But there is discretion. Discretion means that these things are made for human being. Just like fruits, flowers, vegetables, rice, grains, milk—the animals do not come to claim that “I shall eat this.” No. It is meant for man. Just like milk. Milk is an animal product. It is the blood of the cow changed only. But the milk is not drunk by the cow. She is delivering the milk, but she’s not taking, because it is not allotted for it. By nature’s way. So you have to take. Milk is made for man, so you take the milk. Let her live and supply you milk continually. Why should you kill? Follow nature’s law. Then you’ll be happy.
Hayagrīva: He says, uh… (break) He says…, this is, this is Augustine writing. He said, “Some people try to stretch the prohibition ‘Thou shalt not kill’ to cover beasts and cattle and make it unlawful to kill any such animal, but then why not include plants and anything rooted in and feeding on the soil? After all, things like this, though devoid of feeling, are said to have life and therefore can die and so be killed by violent treatment.”
Prabhupāda: No, that is not Vedic philosophy. Vedic philosophy admits that one living entity is the food for another living entity. That is natural. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam,
ahastāni sahastānām
apadāni catuṣ-padām
phalgūni tatra mahatāṁ
jīvo jīvasya jīvanam
Those who have got hands, they eat the animals without hands, only four legs, and the four-legged animals eats the animals which cannot move—that means plants and vegetables. Similarly, the weak is the food for the strong. In this way there is natural law that one living entity is food for another living entity. But our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy, is not based on this platform, that plant life is not sensitive and animal life is more sensitive or human life is more sensitive. We take all of them as life, either human being or animal or plants or fish, it doesn’t matter. That is inevitable. Either you eat animal or vegetable, you eat some living entity. That is inevitable. You cannot avoid. Now it is the question of selection. That, of course, is there. But apart from this vegetarian or nonvegetarian diet, we are concerned with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Kṛṣṇa, whatever…, our philosophy is whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we take the remnants of His foodstuff. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, “You give Me food, and prepared from patraṁ phalaṁ toyam, vegetation.” So if by killing vegetable or plant there is any sin, that, that is Kṛṣṇa’s. We simply eat after His eating. This is our philosophy. We are not after vegetarian diet or nonvegetarian diet. Whatever Kṛṣṇa eats, we take the remnants of food.
Regarding your question about why we do not eat meat and yet we eat plant life, the answer is that we do everything as Krishna recommends. Everything we eat is first offered to Lord Krishna, and because Krishna does not eat meat, therefore we also do not eat meat. The fruits, grains, and vegetables which we offer to the Lord are not caused any suffering by our offering them to Krishna. Rather they are greatly benefited because to be offered for the pleasure of the Lord will grant for the living entity within the plant body certain liberation in the near future. Everything that we do in Krishna Consciousness is ultimately beneficial to all living creatures because we are working under the recommendations of the Lord Himself who is the well-wisher of all His part and parcel children. I hope this will sufficiently clear up this matter for you.
Guest (6): Is the unnecessary killing of animals part of, say, in relation to the incarnation, evolution to manual(?) forms. The objection to doing it is…?
Satsvarūpa: Is the objection to eating meat based on transmigration from animal to man?
Prabhupāda: No, animal can eat… The tiger, he is… By nature, he does not eat food or grain. He simply eats animals. So he can do that.
Guest (2): No, he was saying is the relationship, is the reason why we’re not eating meat due to the fact that once we were animals and now, we’ve progressed to human nature, to human form? Does that have any relationship?
Prabhupāda: Yes. The nature is that everyone should eat another animal or another living creature for existence. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam: “One living entity is the life of another living entity.” That is a fact. Just like sahastānām ahastānam. Those who have got hands—that means men—for them, ahastāni, means the animals who have got no hands. And apadānanaṁ catuṣ-padām: “And the four-legged animals, they eat the grass, who cannot move.” So grass has got life, as the animal has got life. We have got life. So this is… Nūnaṁ mahatāṁ tatra: “The strong is eating the weak.” So this is the law of nature. We are eating the grains and fruits. They have got also life. It is not that those who are vegetarians, or eating grains and fruit, they are not eating life. They are also eating life. But the bhakti-yoga process is that, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that the devotees, they take prasādam. We have got arrangement of distributing prasādam in every Sunday. Prasādam means the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa and then you take. So what Kṛṣṇa wants, that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Therefore we are not propagating the philosophy of ahiṁsā, or nonviolence, because in some way or other, there is violence, either you take fruit or grain or animal. But the principle is that you have to take prasādam, the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa, and then eat. So these things, fruits, grains, are accepted by Kṛṣṇa. We offer to Kṛṣṇa and then eat them. This is the philosophy. Not that because we are eating fruits, therefore we are getting pious, and because… (break) Yes. When you become cent percent purified, then you go to the spiritual world. You haven’t got to come back. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante yad dhāma paramaṁ mama (BG 15.6). So purificatory means that we are changing our bodies life after life, transmigrating. Now this is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to purify ourself so that next life we can get complete spiritual life, full of bliss, knowledge, and eternity. This is the process. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to get the highest perfection of life. And that opportunity is offered to the human society. The animal society, they cannot take advantage. The Bhagavad-gītā is meant for the human society. So if we take advantage of the presentation given by Kṛṣṇa, if we practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then there is opportunity of becoming fully, cent percent perfect. We have to take advantage of it. That’s all. Yes?
********************************************************************The amount of writing matter from recorded conversation, lectures and morning walks on every subject is just phenomenal, from Srila Prabhupada. Just on the umbrella subjects of “Food, Diet and Cooking” for me to research and read every single word has taken over two months. And in His teachings on these subjects there are many consistent themes and philosophy. So I hope I have included a snapshot and cross-section of Srila Prabhupada’s standard and teachings here.
One of the most interesting subjects that Srila Prabhupada talks about when considering Vegetarian and Non-Vegetarian diets is that devotees do not even have to consider this subject because devotees are Prasadarians, a transcendentally named label for what we eat, our diet, how we cook, and what we grow. Srila Prabhupada says we are not propagating the concepts of vegetarianism or otherwise, we are propagating the Philosophy of Prasadarianism which is a transcendental subject based on offering food to Krishna. This is the main consideration for Srila Prabhupada and followers of Srila Prabhupada, the philosophy of Prasadarianism. In many lectures Srila Prabhupada repeats this theme very clearly and alongside this theme many other themes come along with it. Diet, violence, choice of food, the 3 modes of nature, how to cook food, and exactly what the definitions of food are. For example, the “Water” in text 9.26 Bhagavad-gita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada is also defined as “fluids” which can be all manner of foods as well as including Milk. In the word for word transliteration of 9.26 the word “toyam” is translated as water but Srila Prabhupada goes on to expand this definition as “fluids” and says water or milk is included. (and fruit juices etc). Also the other three headings namely, Leaf, Flower and Fruit also have many sub categories.
Another really interesting principle Srila Prabhupada instructs us all about is “Violence” in food. In one lecture from Boston Prasada Lecture in 1969 April 26th.
“Therefore, we are not propagating the philosophy of ahiṁsā, or nonviolence, because in some way or other, there is violence, either you take fruit or grain or animal. But the principle is that you have to take prasādam, the foodstuff which is offered to Kṛṣṇa, and then eat. So, these things, fruits, grains, are accepted by Kṛṣṇa. We offer to Kṛṣṇa and then eat them. This is the philosophy. Not that because we are eating fruits, therefore we are getting pious or…” (less violent).
This is a particularly relevant instruction from Srila Prabhupada for modern people and devotees. He dismisses this idea today of the pious non-violent diet, that so many foods can be given up such as Dairy produce and you become less implicated into violence. He says very clearly that we are not propagating the philosophy of Non-violence, because in some way there is violence in all foods and because we are propagating the philosophy of Prasadarianism, offering foods to Krishna. These are very strong arguments for adopting the diet of Krishna Consciousness, Prasadarianism, because we cannot become pious from eating fruits. We can only become liberated from the material energy by eating Prasada which contains no more violence nor karma. Srila Prabhupada writes that if there is any violence and karma in the food then by offering this to Krishna, He takes all the violence and karma, it’s all His. It’s not our responsibility. It’s His responsibility.
Of course, on the other hand we can prepare all sorts of lovely foods for vegetarians or vegans but if we do not offer them, we have to accept the violence and the karma, and there is plenty of violence in our foods today, especially in so called “organic” foods. The philosophy of Prasadarianism wins out hands down every time.
One of the monumental issues in the production of foods is Cow Protection which means Milk production and fertilizer production, as well as Torque/Draught power for Agriculture. And in turn this fertilizer production from Anaerobic digestion of manures and biomasses means a free captured source of Methane gas for use as alternative green sustainable energy, and Ammonium-carbonates for fertilizers, the best food for plants on the planet. It’s not just a win, win situation its actually a win, win, win. One of the huge positive wins is the ability to become self-sufficient, the ability to actually be independent so that there is no need or market to import any commodities inwardly into any economic or agricultural model for community to live off. So the concepts of Food, Diet and Cooking are all covered clearly by Srila Prabhupada and all within the dynamic of Community and lastly Society of which we are supposed to function within, our Society.
To add just one more layer on top of all these aforementioned issues the last layer comprises of the topmost material mode of nature we can employ, the Mode of Goodness. In fact, for the aforementioned models to work conjointly in harmony it can only be afforded to us to make as our gift within exclusively the mode of goodness, any quality less than that will mean failure after failure. Ultimately if any of us want to make this grandiose model to work we have to say goodbye forever to Capitalism as our economic model. We have to fully embrace Cow Protection, land, community, the mode of goodness and Simple Living to be able to illustrate the other side of the same coin of preaching, to show how to live a good life. A sustainable, ecological, friendly and loving economic model that we all benefit from equally and is our devotee right and legacy. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.
Your servant, Dusyanta dasa