By Bharat Chandra (das) BRS (NC VAD Ministry – IN)
A famous Indian newspaper “Divya Bhaskar” reporter interviewed Minister for ISKCON Daiva Varnasrama Ministry – India, His Holiness Bhakti Raghava Swami, on Daiva Varnasrama Dharma.
Here is an excerpt of the interview held on 14th Dec 2010 at ISKCON Ahmedabad:
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Mr. Reporter (REP): Swamiji, when did you take sannyasa?
Bhakti Raghava Swami (BRS): In 1985, in Mayapur.
REP: And since then how many countries have you have visited promoting rural development and Varnasrama?
BRS: Quite a few countries. It is ongoing. Africa, North America, Canada, Asian countries like – Indonesia, India, Cambodia, Thailand, Malaysia and Japan.
REP: So, they believe in this culture, Krishna?
BRS: Yes, acutally Krishna culture, not that long ago was all over the world. Our Founder Acharya, Srila Prabhupada, was very expert in presenting this philosophy. Srila Prabhupada would present in such a way that people from any denomination could take this up. I am from Christian background. Roman Catholic. Both my parents were Roman Catholic. Whatever religious backgorund, if one is open and receptive to the philosophy of Sanatana Dharma then one can accept. We have devotees from so many different backgrounds. Just like I still believe in Jesus. He is a very important personality. He is a Guru to us. Just like, there are so many different Gurus who provide spiritual guidance and we continue to offer respects to such personalities. There is no contradiction. Rather, it complements or completes that understanding. Just like Jesus presents himself as the “Son of God”. But practically there is no or very little information on who is God? But we come to know from Bhagavadgita that the father of Lord Jesus is Krishna. He is the father of all living entities. “Pitamahasya jagato”.
REP: So what is this Rural Development, so far as ISKCON is concerned?
BRS: Very good question and a very important one also. Rural Development has to do with bringing back the understanding and awareness that our vedic culture is primarily an agrarian based culture. It means that when we live a more simplified life based on producing our own food, caring for cows, living in harmony with nature, then, Simple living and High thinking is more easily cultivated. It is very important aspect of our philoshophy, Simple Living and High thinking, which we practically cannot do it in cities.
REP: Fast life is going on nowadays. No one has time to spend with each other…
BRS: Yes, that we call – In the mode of passion. City life especially is rajo guna and tamo guna.
REP: Oh, it’s a great definition. City life and Village life.
BRS: Therefore Vedic culture propounds and promotes this simplified life in the mode of goodness and that is more easily attainable within a rural environment. The ISKCON Daiva Varnasrama Ministry, here in India, is quite recent, little more that one year and is especially promoting this kind of understanding. So we are going about it in two ways: One is by encouraging those who are living in villages, that this lifestyle is important and don’t be allured by modern city lifestyle and go and work in the factories 12 hours of the day and you work under such stressful condition. So naturally there is no time to think and no time for relationships. Chanakya Pandit explains that one can be happy in two ways: One is not by going away from home to work and another is by not incurring debts. Modern system is based on credit system. Everyone, borrows money and because of that we have farmer’s are committing suicide. This is because of this artificial lifestyle which is imposed upon them. Vedic culture is localized living. You don’t have to go away from home to work. When we go away from home, we have to travel, it is dangerous, we are away from our family members, dependents. So that is not natural.
REP: So this is not good sign?
BRS: This is indicating that we are living most unnatural way of life. Therefore it is the cause of so much unhappiness, hardships and dangerous life. So we have deviated from a more simple lifestyle in which the principles of dharma can be practised. You know that in India, with the present trend, there is a survey that within the next ten years the population of the villages will come down to 50%. It has come down less than 70% just last year for the first of history. Which means that the people are going to selling more and more of their lands, getting rid of their cows in different ways. That means more and more people will be working in the factories. Not only here in India, in different countries, the whole emphasis is what they call – “Economic Development”.
REP: “So called”.
BRS: Yes, “So-called”. Not understanding that the best economic development is based on agriculture. Agriculture has always been, not only for India, but for whole world, the most important and strongest economic basis.
REP: So ISKCON is working on this.
BRS: Yes, we have hundreds of devotees all over the world in frontline preaching.
REP: Ok… rather, my question is in India how many are working on this Rural development from ISKCON?
BRS: In India, we have established a ministry as I mentioned earlier and we have 25 members in the team and increasing at different levels. We have National Coordinator, State Coordinators, National Directors for different departments within the ministry focussing on special areas. Various grass roots activities are already beng taken up, like for example in Andhra Pradesh, we have, Varnasrama Shikshalaya which is a pre-gurukul and various other states slowly picking up.
REP: Particularly for Gujarat, is it the first time that you have come for this reason?
BRS: Yes I was here 20 years ago in connection with Youth ministry at that time. But more recently, just 2 days back in this connection to visit various centers and come in contact with various individuals interested and who could be involved in helping the ministry to develop this aspcet in Gujarat. Lot of potential here.
REP: Cow plays a very important role?
BRS: Yes, very very much. Economy is based on Cow. Because agriculture is meant to be done with the use of cows and bulls. Tilling of the land is to be done by Ox. That’s the natural way. If we deviate from this and use tractors then the result is very detrimental to the soil, it is creating unemplyoment as well and it is encouraging what is called – Monocrop and cash crop which is not the proper way of doing agriculture. And without panchagavya, the Brahmanas become unemployed. So all of this is very interconnected. Krishna has created a very scientific system. This Varnasrama system is very scientific system. Therefore Krishna explains, catur varnyam maya srstam, guna karma vibhagashah. So Krishna has created this system, so this system is necessary. So who are we to reject that system or try to invent new system. Ofcourse there has been devitations. So that is why our acharyas have used what is called – Daiva Varnasrama. Daiva Varnasrama means, that we work within that system that Krishna has given and but the focus is on serving Krishna. There is no undue difference. We are servants of God and we are all endeavouring to practice devotional service regardless of our temporary material position or responsibilities. When that aspect is missing, we get all competition between the classes. But the classes are natural. By nature in every country, some are more inclined to intellectual activities, others are more inclined towards manual activities. So these natural divisions are there. When the focus is missing, then it becomes a problem. So we need to focus to bring back the Krishna element. Because if Krishna element is there then everything becomes harmonius.
So we are doing these two things. Rural development means not only on the material side, but also on the spiritual side. Spiritual element and material element need to be blended together. Because we are made up of both. We have this material body but we are spirit soul. So we have to learn how to blend both of them.
REP: With your experience, what you envision in next ten years regarding the survey about the 50% migration to urban areas.
BRS: Yes, we want to reverse that trend! In other words, we are going to towards the 50% mark, we want to go towards the 90% mark positively. Because India, like other countries also, like in Cambodia where I spend some time every year- has 90% of the population in the villages. And in Cambodia they have beautiful cows. In America right now, 98% of the population is towns and cities. In 2011, 200 million youths in India will be jobless. I don’t have figures in other countries about population living in villages, like in Japan, majority is urban. It is very dangerous for India, because India is the land of Dharma. And as we abandon this natural lifestyle, abandon cows then we abandon Dharma. You see, both, Land and Cows are two of our seven mothers. There are seven mothers mentioned in our vedic culture. When we no longer have a connection with Cows and Land and especially when we abuse and neglect them… this trend is unacceptable. India is the third largest beef exporter in the world! First is Australia, second is Brazil and third is India! In some of the countires the number of slaughterhouses are decreasing, here in India it is increasing. Some decades back there were 120 native breeds of cows but now it has come down to only 33 only. Close to 100 breeds have disappeared!
REP: Lastly, Gita Jayanti is around the corner. What is your message to the youth particularly.
BRS: The youth in India have a major role to play to help save India and save the rest of the world. Our ministry is especially is calling out to te youth of India to become aware of the need to save our cows and save our villages. We are working with youth groups and we are eager to come in contact with more such groups because there are unlimited activities and programs. One of our programs is “Adopt a Village”. We are on the verge of officially inaugurate this program which will give an opportunity for hundreds and thousands of young people to help to be engaged.
REP: Thank you very much swamiji.
BRS: Thank you, Hare Krishna.
nice interview. I am wondering what Maharaja meant by : “And without panchagavya, the Brahmanas become unemployed”. My understanding is that the brahmanas were not employed as such. They just received maintenance. If one interprets “unemployed” not in the sense of a wage, but in the sense of being “not used” then still I am wondering why pancagavya must be there, as the main business of a brahman is teaching, and he can do that without the cow, though ideally cow would be there. Of course, panchagavya is used in diety worship, which the brahmanas perform, but 1) one can worship Krsna with other things in the mode of goodness, and 2) diety worship is not the only business of the brahmana.
“Unemployed” in this context means “not engaged” in their duties as brahmanas. Out of the six prescribed duties of brahmanas, namely “to study the Vedas, to teach the Vedas, to worship the Deity, to teach others how to worship, to accept charity and to give charity” [SB 7.11.14], three are compulsory, studying sastra, worshiping the deity and giving in charity. Brahmanas are not to accept any salary, that is correct.
Pancagavya is especially connected with deity worship and performance of various samskaras wherein one must have cow products. Deities cannot be installed without cow products (therefore we would not have any temples). Also, most yajnas (harinama yajna being the main exception) cannot be performed without the use of ghee and grains, both of which depend on cows and bulls. Pancagavya must be there because brahmanas are meant to use cow products on a daily basis, or else “they’ll be out of a job” (“job” here means occupation). Hence Srila Prabhupada explains:
“Without protection of cows, brahminical culture cannot be maintained; and without brahminical culture, the aim of life cannot be fulfilled. The Lord, therefore, is described as go-brahmana-hitaya because His incarnation is only for the protection of the cows and brahmanas.” [SB 8.24.5 – Purport]
“So the example is set by the Supreme Personality of Godhead that human civilization will advance only on the basis of brahminical culture and cow protection. As soon as there is falldown from brahminical culture, and as soon as there is discrepancy in the protection of cows, there will be no more peace in the world. Therefore He specifically said, go-brahmana-hitaya ca. This Krishna consciousness movement is for the protection of brahminical culture and cows. Then automatically the peace of the world will come, if two things are done. This is Vedic literature. They pick up the essence of the things, and all other things follow.” Lecture, LA, December 4, 1968.