Publisher: Jon Land
Published: 17/10/2006 – 09:30:58 AM Printable version
David Cameron to visit Hindu Temple
Conservative leader David Cameron was today visiting a major Hindu temple in Watford to give people from across the faith community the opportunity to discuss a range of issues.
The event at the Bhaktivedanta Manor ISKCON Temple, in Aldenham, has been organised by the Hindu Forum of Britain and forms part of a series of community outreach dinners with leaders from different political parties.
More than 250 business and community leaders were due to meet Mr Cameron to tackle a range of issues affecting Hindus, highlight their contribution in building a cohesive Britain and explore the community’s role in shaping the future of the country.
During the visit Mr Cameron will have a guided tour of the temple and adjoining manor, which has become renowned as an important place of pilgrimage.
The temple not only attracts worshippers to the magnificent shrine of Shri Shri Radha-Gokulananda and Shri Shri Sita-Rama but also its theological college, farm and expansive gardens.
Secretary general of the Hindu Forum of Britain, Ramesh Kallidai, said: “It’s a great honour for the Hindu Forum of Britain to welcome Mr Cameron to this reception.
“Mr Cameron has spoken on many occasion about the contribution British Hindus have made to the social and economic prosperity of the country.
“However, while we will continue to play our part in building a stronger and more cohesive society Hindus still face multiple disadvantages and discrimination.
“These range from accessing public services that cater to the special requirements of the community and increasing representation at local and national level to increasing resources for voluntary groups to continue to support communities and combating increased racism and race hate crime.”
His Grace Gauri Das, the temple president of Bhaktivedanta Manor ISKCON Temple, said: “We are delighted to welcome David Cameron to Bhaktivedanta Manor ISKCON temple.
“After his recent trip to India, Mr Cameron will have an opportunity to speak to prominent business and community leaders and understand their successful integration into Britain.
“He will be able to experience the rich spiritual heritage of India at this temple dedicated to Lord Krishna, which attracts the largest gathering of Hindus outside India.”
For more information about the work of the Hindu Forum of Britain visit the organisation’s website at www.hinduforum.org
Copyright Press Association 2006.
Just what , i wonder would the Founder Acharya His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada think about refering to His Temple as a “Hindu Temple”,
From reading His books and listening to His conversations i believe this is a direct contradiction to what He was teaching.
Those in Iskcon who continue to propogate such a situation would be well advised to reread His teachings.
ys mvdas ACBSP
I had hoped to get a transcript of what exactly David cameron said on his visit. Often the papers offer small quotes and place them out of context. Was his visit media hype or authentic? Can you help me, can you shed any light on what I am asking? Sorry to be sceptical.
Sally Hastings
I would guess that Mr. Cameron’s visit was a mixture of both, I am sure there was some sincerity on his part to visit, as visiting was not compulsory and I am sure he enjoyed his visit greatly and was appreciative of those that welcomed him. That said all politicians are hungry for media coverage, as the more they are covered by the media the more votes they are likely to get. So for sure some element of media hype, as you put it, would have been there. Of course that media hype would also have had benefit for the temple too, as many TV viewers would have had the chance to see the temple which wouldn’t have been the case otherwise. As for a full transcript perhaps some of the Bhaktivedanta Manor devotees might be able to help…….?
Hare Krishna
Praghosa dasa.
This was great preaching by the Manor (and the Hindu Forum of UK who organised the event). Cameron could well become the next leader here in the UK. He heard the holy name, took prasadam, saw the deities and even had Lord Rama’s shoes placed on his head as he bowed before the altar. The ‘Hindu’ debate rages on, but in my view the Manor is making some incredible headway in raising our positive profile. They are generally referred to as ‘Bhaktivedanta Manor Hare Krishna Temple’ and are positioned as the main Hindu shrine in the UK and possibly even Europe. Cameron chose to visit the Manor in pereference to another large temple in London.
The Manor’s position as the main shrine opens so many preaching doors that we would not otherwise get to see from a distance. OK, there are some theology issues with the pantheism, polytheism and all that, and of course we are not a religion in the traditionally understood sense, but we can gradually counter these misapprehensions with our messages, gradually asserting our own integrity. Sometimes one has to take a branch from a tree to make an axe to cut it down.
Yes ,i would agree that Mr cameron made contact ,as do many others who are all just as impotant from the spiritual platform,
It would be wonderfull indeed if every visitor recieved the same special treatment.
There are many souls who visit in all shapes and sizes ,is it we take into account their temporary material position before we are respectfull ?
but we are non sectarian,Srila Prabhupada expressed this time and time again,
By constantly advertising ourselves as Hindus ,do we exclude jews ,christians ,muslims,or any one else from Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s mission.
Of course the Hindus are also welcome just like anyone else ,
Sorry to sound boring ,but once again i ask ,just when did we become a Hindu shrine ?
Of course all these other theological issues are relegated to a minor issue in the name of political expediency.
It would appear that in the name of “preaching”,we are quite prepared to sacrifice the integrity of our Founder Acharya,
I once again ask,and this to me is was counts,
What would HDG Srila Prabhupada think of this?
If you are a Hindu temple ,with a Hindu shrine ,with Hindu festivals,what next?
Is it only a matter of time before Our Founder Acharya becomes a Hindu guru?
It is a reversal of fortunes. The major donors and financial supporters of ISKCON at this time are from the Indian Hindu community. ISKCON leadership bends towards the Indian community, so that ISKCON temples can survive and continue. In the past the major contributors and supporters were from the Western Countries. Now Goddess Laxmi favors the Eastern Cultures and countries such as India and China. It is difficult for us, Western devotees to act as servents to those, whom we once acted as the masters. Everyone in the Indian Community knows we are Vaishnavas though, and not Hindus.
I don’t want to minimise your concerns, Mahavidya prabhu. All I wanted to do was point out what I perceive to be the positive effects of the Manor being seen as a major Hindu shrine. However, I agree that Srila Prabhupada made it clear we are not meant to establish Hindu temples. But I am not sure that this is what the Manor is trying to do. From the late seventies onward the Manor has grown in popularity among the Hindu community even though it has never been overtly advertised as a Hindu temple. Generally devotees – just like yourself — are at pains to point out how we are “not Hindus”, but despite this attempt the perception continues. None of our own literature presents the Manor as a Hindu temple. I have personally been involved in writing much outreach propaganda and, except in certain rare cases to specific publics, I never refer to the Manor or any other temple as a Hindu shrine. Current news releases refer to the Manor as the ‘Bhaktivedanta Hare krishna Temple’.
It could be argued that the temple caters to Hindus to the exclusion of other sections of the community, but different people seem to have different experiences. Mine has always been good, but I recognise that there are many others, maybe like yourself, who feel differently. These are issues that perhaps need to be addressed, but I also think we should recognise the positive things that are happening.
Dear Krishna Dharma prabhu,you have said,
“None of our own literature presents the Manor as a Hindu Temple”
yet should you choose to read the recent article posted by ISKCON communications on this website entitiled “20000 to celebrate Diwali for a festival of lights” the manor is described as being the largest Hindu seminary in the country ,
Perhaps you should reread many of the articles presented by that particular dept.
You also say”I have personally been involved in writing much outreach propaganda and,except in certain rare cases to specific publics,i never refer to the Manor or any other temple as a Hindu shrine”
Yet in your opening sentence
“All i wanted to do was point out what i percieve to be the positive effects of the Manor being seen as a major Hindu shrine”
And yes,credit should be given where credit is due,but once again i bring this point to your attention and a staightforward reply would be appreciated,
This is not a slander on the Hindu community amongst whom i have many friends,and whose support i and ISKCON appreciate,however,
If your Temple is advocating you embrace Hinduism,you advertise as a Hindu shrine,you hold Hindu festivals,you are a Hindu seminary etc,does it follow that The Founder-Acharya His Divine Grace A C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada is in fact a Hindu ?
And consequently are you prepared to sacrifice His integrity for your financial support?
As an after thought,did anyone ever think that ,considering we have been distributing HDG’s books,having Harinams ,distributing Prasadam and having festivals in the UK for over 30 years ,Mr Cameron may have met a devotee ,read a book,and actually wanted to see if the temple lived up to what was written and advocated in the literature?
Well, you have my humble opinion, Mahavidya prabhu, for whatever it may be worth. I can only suggest you take up your concerns with the Manor management, of which I am no part. I have no influence there at all, I am afraid. I am just a humble writer and I, like you, want only that the glories of Krishna and his pure devotee Srila Prabhupada be spread far and wide. Certainly the Manor is doing much in this regard, but again I do not deny that there are issues.
Dear Krishna Dharma prabhu,you have said,
” i have no influence there at all”,
Yet i have seen and heard you give classes at the Manor,
You also never answered the question,
If the Manor constantly advertises itself as a Hindu temple would this be pleasing to HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada,knowing his teaching on this matter,and that the Manor is supposed to be representing Him?
If the answer is NO then as a regular preacher at Bhaktivedanta Manor i would asume you would preach accordingly.
That in fact this line of advertisement is a misrepresentation of the teachings of HDG.
If your answer is YES ,for our benefit ,please explain
Haribol Mahavidya prabhu. I meant that I have no influence in managerial decisions. Classes are another thing (and mine certainly have no influence :). My personal opinion is that Srila Prabhupada is very pleased with the overall success at the Manor. Of course there are problems and things that need changing and improving, but in my view it is doing some wonderful preaching and the devotees serving there are making many great sacrifices. Perhaps your view is different and that’s fine. We are all individuals with differing perspectives.
I have also seen Krishna Dharma prabhu give classes and courses at the Manor. I have also seen prabhuji have a bookstall selling his own books during Janmastami. So clearly for him to say that he has “no influence there at all” is misleading. Indeed, his own website states:
“You can meet Krishna Dharma at Bhaktivedanta Manor, Hilfield Lane, Aldenham, WD25 8EZ (Tel 01923 857244), where he lectures and holds workshops from time to time ”
“Krishna Dharma will be signing copies of his books at Bhaktivedanta Manor during major festivals.”
I doubt he would be allowed to hold lectures, workshops and book signing events at the Manor if he had no influence there.
Another point: I found prominent references to his own books on his website, e.g.
“Krishna Dharma’s dramatisations of the Mahabharata, Ramayana and Panchatantra have become the world’s best selling editions of the epics, captivating readers in a dozen languages all around the world.”
“Beauty, Power and Grace: The Many Faces of The Goddess”
etc.
but could not find much reference at all to Srila Prabhupada’s books, which I thought strange for someone who wants “the glories of Srila Prabhupada be spread far and wide”.
There’s a great morning walk transcript where Srila Prabhpada discusses the need to fight the British from prohibiting Ratha-yatra. In it, he advises that this stoppage should be seen as a prejudice against Hindus.
“Protest meeting must be there. How to organize? At least, a protest meeting should be done in such a way that the whole world may know that the British Government stopped the yearly Ratha-yatra ceremony of the Hindus. That should be organized. What can be done? You are not very strong GBC’s. There must be vehement protest meeting.”
“Protest meeting and the Indians should approach the Ambassador that, “Represent our case to the Queen that Hindus are being harassed.” This should be organized.”
“And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it?”
So it seems using the term Hindu wasn’t a hang up for His Divine Grace. Why is it for us?
Most people come to our temples thinking we are following a Hindu religion. So what? Unless there’s some siddhantic deviation, is there really a need to be so angered by being considered Hindu?
Also, does anyone really know what being a Hindu means? It’s such a general term. Can it be applied to anyone who worships the principle Avatars?
We define ourselves as Gaudiya Vaisnavas, but for all intent and purposes, the general public views us as practicing some form of Hinduism. The term really has no meaning for us. If one inquires, attends our programs, reads Bhagavad-Gita As It Is, maybe they’ll see a difference. But really, this “we are not a Hindu movement” borders on bigotry.
Disassociating ourselves with sentimental worship for material gain is the essential meaning, and we should always adhere to that. That’s very obvious in Bhagavad-Gita As It Is. As long as the distribution of Srila Prabhpada’s books is the motive for temple programs, we shouldn’t worry about being called Hindus.
It might be a good idea to produce a separate article explaining the current problems and differences of opinion which seem to keep coming up again and again regarding the Hinduization of ISKCON.
There seems to be a quiet discontent on the part of many Western devotees towards their Indian counterparts. I believe many of these fears and misconceptions are racially motivated and due to seeing others in the bodily concept of life, rather than seeing them as spirit souls, geniunely and sincerely trying to serve Lord Krishna.
At the same time, if the Indian community works harder at serving the Deities and the temples, and offers the greatest degree of donations, while more Western devotees leave or fall away, then there is the chance that ISKCON temples can turn into Hindu temples.
That perhaps is the fear many devotees harbor.
So once again i raise the point,if one constantly advertises as a Hindu temple ,Hindu shrine ,A Hindu seminary ,holding Hindu festivals,
does it follow that HDG AC Bhaktivedanta Swami is in fact a Hindu guru?
Is Bhagavad gita a Hindu Scripture ?
Does Krishna advocate we become Hindus ?
Should we also print Srila Prabhupada’s other veiwpoint of Hinduism as being “third class”?
As for those who use the “race card” ,experience has taught me ,they tend to be most involved in the bodily concept.
Once again i ask ,did not HDG wish us to unite under the non sectarian banner of Caitanya Mahaprabhu ?
ys mahavidya das
Dear Jan Ardan prabhu,
You raised a good point,does anyone really know what being a Hindu means ?
I think you will find that many Hindus will not be able to answer you,
and if they do ,you would find an extremly diverse range of conclusions,
they may even study Bhagavad Gita and other sastras but not nessecarily come to the same conclusions as our Founder Acharya AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.
If people wish to be refered to as Hindus that is there choice,i have no objection,
If you should wish to be refered to as a Hindu that is your business,
Should you wish to go to a Hindu temple that is also your business.
Should they wish to label me as Hindu ,so what ?
it is not a question of racial stereotypes as some would wish to make it,
Srila Prabhupada never preached Hinduism to us,and if one purports to represent Him,surely it could be expected they would be following in His footsteps.
I wonder how Srila Prabhupada will be depicted in let us say 100 years ?
One has to be very carefull that in the name of “preaching” the substance of the message may not become so diluted as to be ineffective or unrecognisable.
Once again i say, as does Srila Prabhupada,let the Hindus come ,but also the Christians,Muslims,Jews ,Bhuddists ,atheists and all, whatever sex or colour.
Why do we have to advertise otherwise ?
The following is an extract from one of Srila Prabhupada’s lectures,
given on Oct 26 1975.
A full transcript is available in the Sept/Oct issue of BTG 2005.
We must come to the bramha bhuta platform by giving up our material designations.What are these designations?”I am Hindu,I am Muslim,I am Christian,I am African ,I am Indian,I am European ,I am a woman ,I am a man”—- so many designations.You have to give these up.”
and
Not that”I remain a Christian,I remain a Hindu——–No, not that .You have to give up your designation.”
” That requires practice.And that practice means this:param vijayate sri Krsna-sankirtana”
and
” Everyone- each of us living entities– has a heart full of dirty things.That means we are thinking “I am this ,I am that,I am that ,I am that.” We have to cleanse these dirty things .I am European ,I am American ,I am Hindu,I am Muslim,I am this , I am that,.
These are all dirty things”
Ys mvdas
This is just sour grapes ingratitude towards all the efforts of the devotees of the Bhaktivedanta Manor.
Congratulations, a major leader has came to our temple, bowed his head to God, and sought the blessings of the Deites.
What a great success story.
It is nice that a prominant politician visited the manor, I am sure each and every devotee made him more than welcome.
Yes it is true that many of the general public and press see The Manor as being a Hindu temple, my many discussions with people they see the Gita as being a Hindu scripture.
It is also from what I see in ISKCON a sad fact that the majority of the congregations are from what can be called a Hindu background, and I also note that the manor is not unique in trying to accomodate as much as possible. This should not be too much of a surprise but we also have to note that many are second generation UK citizens and that for those who have taken up the process of KC are aware that we are not Hindu.
Sri Prabhupada was as stated right when he showed that followers of Krsna were not connected with one group or another this is clearly stated by Krsna himself in the Gita were he tells us to give up all forms of religion and follow him. But one thing I noticed was how tollerant Sri Prabhupada was, from a totam pole being put next to him to out right attacks on him and ISKCON; he had an answer for all that did not isolate anyone.
It was nice to hear that the manor is open to anyone willing to visit and on occasions we use words that others may understand; I am sure David Camaron was sincere in his visiting a Hindu Temple and tought he was saying the right thing; but remember what Sri Prabhupada also said about politicians.
I have heard devotees using the word Hindu or refere to Krsna as a Hindu God but with association and teaching they have learnt that this is incorrect; many are new devotees or have not read or listened much to Sri Prabhupada.
It is important that as devotees we read the books Sri Prabhupada wrote he himself said that if ISKCON finished it would only take one person to read his books and the whole movement would restart; Sri Prabhupada gave us all we need.
I am also disturbed by the use of this term racist; is airing a view racist? If we are arguing from the words of Sri Prabhupada then this cannot and is not the case; if however we are arguing from our own stand point with no understanding as many people tried to do with Sri Prabhupada then like Sri Prabhupada did we can correct them; he called many people Rascals; liers and cheats.
We must learn to be more tolletrant than a tree, understand and correct when needed but remain focused on this simple fact as Sri Prabhupada says “God is God He is neither Hindu, muslim, Christian he is God”
Hare Krishna Everybody
If we are really concerned about Srila Prabhupad, we should focus our efforts in distributing his books and not squabble over some article in a newspaper or website.
Haribol
For Krishna devotees not to understand or appreciate being a Hindu, is the same as denoucing Krishna himself. People appear to have become so narrow minded in their pursuit of ‘jnana’ that they have forgotten the essence of the message. Every human is a Hindu. Every human is bound by the laws of Karma – it there becomes irrelevant what you call yourself. Only good positive Karma survives – everything else is but illusion and ones ego. So might I suggest – be what you want to be, call yourself by whatever name – but do your karma………leave the technical detail of what HDG may or may not have said, or might have meant. In essence, only he knows and everyone guesses. Why pursue an illusion, when the lord of HDG, Krishna has said – do your duty and deeds correctly – karma.