In his Upadesh-amrita, text 3 Shrila Rupa Goswami has listed 6 principles that are favorable for pure devotional service. They are 1) being enthusiastic, 2) endeavoring with confidence, 3) being patient, 4) acting according to regulative principles [hearing, chanting and remembering about Krishna, etc], 5) abandoning the association of non-devotees, and 6) following in the footsteps of the previous acharyas. He says that following these principles will assure one of success. That sounds very encouraging to me. These principles are all essential for those on the path or aspiring to be on the path of bhakti. For now I am focusing on enthusiasm.
By Karnamrita dasa
The word enthusiasm has its origins in Greek (en-theos, or having a god within) where it indicated someone overcome with the spirit of some god. It wasn’t used then very positively. That definition is still given for the word, but in the last possible use. In that rarely used meaning of the word it indicates an extreme religious devotion, intensely emotional, and breaking with tradition. I thought this was an interesting aside for our discussion here, though that is not how the word is used in this verse.
Of more interest for understanding the importance of enthusiasm for our practical application, enthusiasm is defined in Websters Unabridged Dictionary as ‘absorbing or controlling possession of the mind by any interest or pursuit; lively interest’. Sounds like something good for the practice of yoga if we add Krishna as our interest!
For this brief discussion I am summarizing Prabhupada’s comments on enthusiasm in his purport to this verse and also from Shri Bhaktyaloka, where Thakur Bhaktivinode devotees a chapter to explain each principle. The two explanations compliment each other nicely.
Prabhupada begins his purport with a famous sentence that, ‘Devotional service is not a matter of sentimental speculation or imaginative ecstasy.’ He describes Bhakti as a cultivation, which means an activity (distinguished from idle yogic meditation). We have to understand the value of devotional service by learning about it from devotees and engaging in its’ nine processes. He is saying that we show our enthusiasm by our practical activity in Krishna consciousness. In any occupation enthusiasm is essential, and this is certainly the case as well in Krishna’s devotional service. ‘Enthusiasm’ he says ‘means action’, and in devotional service it is action for Krishna.
His definition of devotional service is ‘endeavor executed with intelligence in Krishna consciousness’.
In Bhaktivinode’s discussion he begins by saying what enthusiasm is not or what the lack of enthusiasm causes: ‘Without utsaha [enthusiasm], one becomes negligent in his worship. Negligence is born out of inactivity, apathy, or indifference. Laziness and inertia are called inactivity. When utsaha is generated, laziness and inertia cannot remain. The absence of desire to work is inertia. This inertia is opposite to the nature of spirit. If one allows his inertia to remain in his body or heart, then how can he perform devotional service? The state of apathy develops from carelessness.’
Later on the Thakur refers to the Hari-bhakti-vilas where carelessness or inattention is one of the offenses against the holy name. There three types of inattention are described, namely, apathy, inactivity, and distraction. Unless we are able to give these up we can’t perform devotional service properly. Our attitude and intension are crucial for success!
To conclude he says that 1) enthusiasm is the only support for devotional service,
2) that all anarthas [unwanted ways of thinking and acting] are vanquished through devotional service performed with enthusiasm, and 3) faith without enthusiasm is meaningless. (or as the Bible say, ‘Faith without works is dead’—though we could add ‘Faith without enthusiastic actions is dead’).
So it is obvious that enthusiasm is the life of devotional service. We become enthusiastic to serve Krishna in association of devotees who are. As Prabhupada said Bhakti is cultivation through practice. In the beginning our enthusiasm may be small, or at various times it may wane. However, we develop enthusiasm, by assisting advanced devotees who have feeling for Krishna, and enthusiasm for servicing him and the devotees. Enthusiasm is contagious! While serving with enthused devotees we have to continuously hear about the glories of Krishna, and understand our predicament in the material world (positive and negative impetus). As we try to act with enthusiasm and pray for it, enthusiasm will naturally arise in the course of devotional service.
Having said the above, enthusiasm and in fact everything devotional can be tested and difficult to practice during major life upheavals. During these times it can be extremely difficult to do the very things that will be most helpful for our being enthusiastic in our spiritual life. We will require much support and understanding from our network of devotee’s friends.
If we are offering support to someone in crisis, we have to take the individual’s nature and personality into account, and understand the grieving process. In other words we need to understand both the limits and strengths of our philosophy according to the time, circumstance, and nature of the distressed devotee. Here our hearts’ affection for the person has much more currency then our “official” philosophical commentary.
Our well-meaning words may be philosophically correct, but be inappropriate and not appreciated. Certainly this is true in all crisis situations, but even more in extreme cases such as abuse, or if ones’ guru has left Krishna consciousness or has deviated. Then (according to our relationship) we can help nurse these devotees back to spiritual health, which may mean appropriate counseling, and it certainly means loving, understanding friendship—and often allowing space to grieve and process.
Having good devotee companions is always essential. Yet in times of great adversity, betrayal, or major life changes or reverses, having sympathetic, yet wise devotee friendships are essential. The saying “example is better then precept” is also even more true then ordinarily so.
The points made by Prabhupada and Bhaktivinode about enthusiasm are both insightful and straightforward. However, applying them in unique real life situations to devotees in great distress or adversity takes a lot of maturity, practical experience, compassion, and realization of the spirit of Krishna consciousness.
Although we should be enthusiastic and know our philosophy, to apply it blindly will not be helpful. Formulaic recommendations without realization demonstrate the meaning of “dogma”. Even a necessary quality like enthusiasm can be misapplied and have harmful effects.
It is a sign of my immaturity and dogmatism that I have often found myself in such a situation.
Sometimes devotees I do not even know very well will disclose to me (as many frank and open devotees will do) the details of some crisis about their health, their finances, their personal relationships, some disaster or calamity that they have suffered.
My knee-jerk reaction is to try to “philosophize”, to get them to see how this is a test, or a device by Krishna to help bring them closer or more dependent on Him. I want to talk about the prayers of Queen Kunti, or “The Deliverance of Lord Siva” story from the Krishna book. I want to talk about how we are spirit soul, how all actions arise from the modes of nature, how we can completely uproot all material miseries by attentively hearing Srimad Bhagavatam or chanting Hare Krishna. I foolishly think that is why they have chosen me to listen to their troubles, to support them in bhakti yoga. (I think that is what I would want if I had a crisis to discuss.)
Of course, I have usually misjudged the situation. They did not want to be consoled with Krishna conscious philosophy. They found it inappropriate and impersonal for me to speak about such things at such a time. What they really wanted was someone to listen to them, to understand what they are going through, to confirm their opinions, to share their hatred of their enemies and support their hopes and plans for material solutions, to make them feel they have a reliable friend and ally in me.
I had to apologize for misjudging and do my best to be a sympathetic listener, but at the same time I had to wonder. Why does this person I am not especially close to come to me for this? Why do they expect sympathy from practically a stranger and why are they so open to disclose intimate personal crises to me?
Devotees feel natural intimacy with other devotees, but it is at least as much a sign of immaturity to expect a material “support network” from devotees without doing the required work of actually building close personal relationships, as it is to preach without consideration of the circumstances.
We are conditioned souls in these material bodies and we need things like friendship, support, allies, sympathy, but we have to find these things just like everyone else does, by building relationships.
But our greater need is what only the devotees can give us: We really always do need to hear bhagavat philosophy.
You do have a good sense of humor! Thanks for that, and for bringing up other important issues.
I find it somewhat difficult to speak in general about areas of devotee life that need to be addressed and discussed because I like to emphasize the more positive perspectives (and I am quite a mild mannered person). At the same time I think it is essential to be able to look candidly at ourselves and see how we often fall short and can improve.
I consider myself an average devotee at best, and what I said to me is nothing extraordinary, but is a practical approach from my experience in working with devotees. Some devotees like to decry the benefits of counseling, yet there is a great need for basic counseling skills by leaders and anyone who wants to be of service to devotees in difficulty. For instance, knowing what are considered the 5 stages of grieving (Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, and Acceptance) and their symptoms would be very helpful, as would being a good listener and communicating genuine interest and concern.
You bring up an important point about the shortage of people that devotees can confidentially confide in. As you say, such a support network can’t be with just anyone, but has to be with devotees who know us and we have an affectionate relationship with. The fact that devotees confide in you without such a deep connection may indicate their inability to find such close friends, or they may be stuck in a stage of their grieving. Perhaps they find in you qualities that enable them to open up. If you are comfortable in that role, then you can endeavor to be a friend, listen, and ask questions to clarify what they are going through. You will find that by listening and questioning, that some people are too wounded and negative about their life for you to really help by giving them a full dose of the “Bhagavat philosophy”.
I don’t mean to imply that the KC philosophy is not a real solace—it certainly is—when we can actually hear it!! One size doesn’t fit all. What we say must be according to the receptivity of our audience and according to our relationship to the devotee. We have to speak to the devotee, and not AT the devotee. It has taken me a long time to understand this! We have to create favorable conditions for devotees to hear the philosophy through the strength of our relationship.
Dear Karnamrta prabhu,
Here is another very nice read; mellow, measured and informative, like your personality as you described. What may not be so mellow is to feel lonely in times of need, and counselling. Sometimes I wonder if as a group we may get a little over-enthusiastic; that is, living our devotional life according to theory, but feeling somewhat self-righteous towards those who need a shoulder to cry on. Or could I say, devotional service performed in the mode of passion would result in these feelings.
It can be a lonesome feeling being a leader in Iskcon, but I am sure the same distance is created at grass roots level as well, if the passionate resolve trickles down. The ideal family situation required would have father and mother figures as mentors, and those who have persevered during trying times to be inspirers.
I also find that devotees who have gotten married and are living outside of the temple tend to mellow quite considerably. Needless to say, the onset of old-age coupled with silver or white hair, should give an air of grand-paternal affection and wisdom, not to mention a comfy shoulder to cry on. In many cases these householder devotees become affectionate listeners and so on. In other words, it takes a mellow, loving devotee to be a useful counsellor, who may have developed more sattva qualities. There would be less bargaining so to speak, from someone who has nothing to gain, but to help, selflessly.
Ys, Kesava Krsna dasa.
I am enjoying your articles and hope you continue them. I detect a theme.
We have all met “religious fanatics” of different stripes. There are Christians preachers who stalk University campuses, holding up a Bible and shouting to the crowd that they are all going to hell if they do not get saved.
As Hare Krishna devotees many of us have from time to time acted like fanatics ourselves. I know I have, and probably still do sometimes.
I remember before joining the movement I went to some Sunday feasts and sat next to devotees who said weird and inappropriate things. I remember with embarrassment how later at Sunday feasts I said some weird and inappropriate things to guests.
I remember other situations in which I acted like I had a compulsion to “preach” even though the person I was talking to was not looking for that kind of interaction. Sometimes I “push” when I shouldn’t, and it makes people uncomfortable. I try to be good, but I can’t always help myself.
It is not just a question of grief counseling (although that is an important topic too, especially as devotees are increasingly moving into the role of “clergy”, and ISKCON is developing hospice services to care for dying devotees and their families).
Communication in general is a skill that requires the speaker to tune in to the audience, to be able to connect on some level.
Hare Krishnas may unfortunately have a reputation for being fanatical, and it may be that aspects of bhakti yoga (such as “enthusiasm”) make us fanatical in our immature stage. Devotees try to absorb themselves in constant hearing, chanting and remembering. They may at times be “preaching” for their own benefit when the social situation calls for something quite different. They may not be able or willing to tune in to the situation of the people they are talking to.
That characteristic we share with neophytes of other devotional religious traditions might cause people to put us in a category of “fanatics” and turn certain people off.
Maybe we ought to have a kind of “charm school” for devotees.
But in the final analysis, you gotta just love the devotees. (Who else are we going to love?) We are a mixed bag, with many quirky habits, often rough around the edges, but this is our family, for better or worse. Nondevotees may have refined manners and many other wonderful qualities, but they can’t talk about Krishna with us, so we do not want their association.
Kesava Krishnaji, thanks for your kind comments and for bringing up another important point. My mood is very much in being in preparation of being an elder. In some cultures 60 is the age of the elder, so for me that is only 2 years away. My wife and I do premarital counseling to new couples who are like our children. We share our experiences as a couple as well as stories of other couples we have worked with—the good, the bad, and the ugly—so to speak. I now I am trying to write when I can to share what I have learned over the years.
If we go through the Grihastha asrama correctly we feel satisfied that we have worked through our material desires, and have experienced both what the material world offers, and its’ naked form as well. Then we can speak with the voice of wisdom, balance and compassion. Remembering my immaturity over the years I can only shake my head and laugh—but I had no elders to consult with. Having been through such painful (and sometimes quite dumb) learning experiences I can (and any experienced devotee can) share knowledge of unrealistic expectations and youthful folly, as well as the benefit and shortcomings experienced living in Temple ashrams, and the importance of clear thinking in preparation for family life, etc.
Our older devotee couples who have good relationships and have learned their lessons well are a great resource that I hope the younger devotees can take advantage of. Many of the Prabhupada disciples I know are very much in the mood of being retired persons who are moving from work life into more of the life of a sadhaka, which for many of us includes some way of reaching out and helping other devotees. It is a natural process.
Going by the title of your article –
“The Meaning of Enthusiasm and Its Possible Misuse ”
I feel moved to present the Etymology Dictionary explanation regarding the history of this word or term.
enthusiasm
1603, from M.Fr. enthousiasme, from Gk. enthousiasmos, from enthousiazein “be inspired,” from entheos “inspired, possessed by a god,” from en- “in” + theos “god” (see Thea). Acquired a derogatory sense of “excessive religious emotion” (1660) under the Puritans; generalized sense of “fervor, zeal” (the main modern sense) is first recorded 1716. Enthusiastic in the modern sense is from 1764. Earlier derogatory sense especially seems to have colored modern sense of enthusiast (1764). Enthuse is an 1827 back-formation.
If we believe the origins that indicate “possessed by a god” is referring to a mythical “unreal” god then of course, we may wonder at the current utilization of this term “enthusiasm”. However, we could contemplate that “god” could be referring to a demigod which is an acceptable understanding in Vedic culture.
In employment knowledge eventually becomes realized knowledge. Then in employment we act with greater and greater certainty due to having achieved higher and higher states of realized knowledge. Similarly, as we develop our knowledge of Krsna consciousness we act with greater and greater certainty in regards to the execution of the nine processes of devotion beginning with Sravanam, Kirtanam, Visnu, Smaranam.
We gain knowledge of Krsna consciousness through Guru, Sastra and Sadhu. Then, there is simply Guru and Krsna. And finally, there is simply guidance from Caitya Guru, the Lord in the heart, as we chant the Hare Krsna maha mantra and engage in the other nine processes of devotion.
Therefore, as we achieve guidance from Caitya Guru, the Lord in the heart, the more our enthusiasm is on the first class platform. This is due to our eventually getting all enthusiasm directly from the Lord in the heart.
In the beginning enthusiasm begins through developing expertise in employment. We then try to utilize whatever we earn from work, as much as possible, towards our Krsna consciousness. We utilize these designated funds to get the sanga of Guru, Sastra and Sadhu. And eventually it is simply the nine processes of devotion culminating in the achievement of direct guidance from Caitya Guru. Then, therefore, we would then be “enthused” by “God” within.
It seems to be a common phenomenon among Christians, Muslims, and Hare Krishnas (among others), that new young converts are often full of fervor and zeal, but then they get more mellow over time.
It may be related to the issue of entusiasm without patience. (We hope to keep the enthusiasm but gain the patience)
It may also be connected to learning the need to tailor the message to the needs of our audience, the people we are dealing with. (As Karnamrta says, it is not that “one size fits all”)
Young “enthusiasts” often want to fix others before they fix themselves. They may be a little blind to the extent they still need fixing. They may make the mistake that merely by recognizing faults they have conquered them. Thus they go around recognizing and decrying the faults of others, not realizing that it may take some time yet before those own faults are overcome in themselves.
Still, being able to distinguish and recognize faults is a good quality. The trick is to learn how to be introspective and apply such discrimination to doing what it takes to get rid of those faults within ourselves, without causing unnecessary disturbance to others.
There is a big difference between pointing out a fault and rectifying it, whether in ourselves or in others. How to effectively rectify someone else’s faults is very tricky. Direct criticism often produces only a defensive reaction. But if we can somehow induce people to chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam, that is strong medicine.
Another common characteristing of the zealous young “enthusiast” is the inability to distinguish the essense and the goals from rituals and details. Beginners in different religious traditions often quarrel about inessential details, seeking to distinguish their own practices as superior, without being able to see the real value of each other’s teachings.
These are not easy things to grow out of. After more than 31 years in the movement, I am still a beginner in many of the above respects. (Clearly, I have not made the best use of my time.) :-(
At least I used to have some enthusiasm. Enthusiasm without patience is rajasic. Patience without enthusiasm is tamasic. :-(
Citraketu Prabhu: Thanks for your comment. Some motivational speakers in showing the power and importance of enthusiasm have pointed to its’ Greek roots in a more generous way by saying this “en-theos” meant “of the father” implying that to be enthused about some aim wasn’t possible without being blessed—or that enthusiastic that accomplished great things was truly extraordinary. I would agree with those loose translations, not from the real root of the word but by my practical experience. How rare we see are those devotees who are enthusiastic in the highest sense of the word—-they are empowered it would seem, and do accomplish great things, if not outwardly, then in their standard of practice.
From your discussion I am reminded that we can see everything according to the modes of material nature as discussed in the Gita. Lord Kapila says in the 3rd Canto of the Bhagavat that even devotional service can also be situated in the 3 modes! Although not specifically named certainly enthusiasm, humility and all desirable qualities have their manifestation in the 3 modes. Another way of saying this is that there are stages of humility and enthusiasm—which you mentioned. There is enthusiasm in ignorance, passion, goodness and pure goodness. That is part of what I was trying to get at in my brief article. Not all enthusiasm (or faith, charity etc) is equal, and everything can be properly used or misused in varied circumstances.
Krishna says in the Gita 17 chapter, vs. 3, that we are our faith. So according to our faith we will have particular types of corresponding attachments and views that we are enthusiastic about. The more Krishna consciously realized we are the more mature our enthusiasm. In the beginning of Bhakti any type of enthusiasm is good, but over time it would be expected that we will progress from kanistha or “komala [weak] faith” and its’ corresponding enthusiasm to madhyama faith and enthusiasm and upward. We have to progress through knowledge, realization and love.
Akruranatha Prabhu. Great post (7). I concur with everything you said. As Bhaktivinode Thakur has said we need to become “essence seekers”, then we will be able to distinguish the form (i.e., rituals) from the substance (the goal or Prema).
In the counseling world many people can recognize their own “stuff”—we might say anarthas—but that isn’t enough, as much as knowing we have a broken arm won’t fix it. Treatment is necessary.
It is also a principle in both counseling and KC that we notice the faults we have more readily in others. That is why “others” are considered mirrors for us—they show us our own faults and areas in our life that need correcting. “Physician heal thyself” is an important saying for healers of the body, mind or spirit. (Devotees are ideally spiritual doctors for bringing the soul back to health)
It is easier to point out the faults of others then it is doing the hard work of working on ourself, “anartha nivritti”. It also takes a lot of humility to understand how far we are from our ideal. It is easy to have a “head full of knowledge” and think we have gone somewhere in our beginning of KC. Over the years we are sure to be tested and shaken to our core. KC is a long haul and doesn’t develop overnight. Our initial enthusiasm will eventually grow into a more mature and sustainable outlook, which sees others with true empathy from our own experience.
And we don’t have to scream and jump up and down to be enthusiastic. For many of us slow and steady “wins the race.” So many different types of devotees!! Whatever our process of enthusiasm, we have to have intense eagerness to obtain Prema, and be willing to do whatever is required to obtain it. When O when will that day be mine?
On the other hand, there really is something about bhakti yoga that inspires some behavior that nondevotees sometimes consider fanatical.
Some such behavior may be the result of immaturity, of inability to gauge the mentality of the person we are speaking to, of excessive faultfinding due to enviousness on our part, etc. But even great devotees are sometimes mistaken as “fanatics” by impersonalists and nondevotees who have mistaken ideas about how saintly people are supposed to act and speak.
The other day on book distribution an aging hippie woman told me she did not want Krishna book because her guru would not want her to read it. I tried to tell her she should ask her guru, she must be mistaken: surely her guru would want her to know the pastimes of Krishna, how He killed the different demons and exchanged love with His various devotees. I tried to be so good and “liberal”, but she must have noticed a flash in my eyes of anger at the mayavadis. She told me, “My guru told me the Krishna consciousness people do bhakti, and we should stay away from that, and now I can see you are exhibiting some of the qualities of bhakti.” She meant it as an insult, but I could not help spontaneously and sincerely thanking her. I was overjoyed to think I might be actually exhibiting qualities of bhakti. :-)
There may be many good reasons why young devotees act like “fanatics.”
Serious practicing devotees, even beginners, are practicing under regulation to keep their minds constantly fixed as far as possible in Krishna. They are not supposed to engage in any “prajalpa”, and are supposed to avoid association that will be uncongenial to such practices. We should respect their practice and not expect them to talk with us about mundane things.
Of course we should not expect them to act as “counselors” while they are in a training stage. They are learning to practice a strict mental and physical discipline. Even if it does not involve asanas and pranayama, they are restraining their senses from accustomed gratifications, and are redirecting them into regulated devotional activities, which may be hard for them and can even make them grumpy or impatient.
Of course, they are representatives of a preaching movement, so they should be trained to deal nicely with others and be hospitable to guests at the temple. They should learn how to properly respect all devotees. (“krsneti yasya giritam manasa driyeta. . .”)
Sometimes older beginners, like me, especially in houselhold life, have fallen away from very strict practice of that regulative life of devotional service. We interact with worldly people to make our living, or with worldly family members and friends to whom we have obligations. We may have relapsed into sense gratification like sometimes eating bhoga or watching movies. Such compromises may take the “edge” off our personalities and make us a little more patient in our dealings with others. We might be more “mature” in interacting socially with different kinds of people, even though we are not really “maturing” in terms of our progress in devotional service toward the goal of life.
Those of us who have been “compromising” in that way should recognize that the new bhakta brahmacari at the temple is better situated, even though he may not be able to keep up that level of regulation, and we should aspire for returning to such a regulated life when we can (e.g., in retirement).
Of course the great devotees do not compromise on their strict regulation and still are able to deal nicely with all kinds of people. That is real “maturity”, a characteristic of their actual spiritual advancement.
I do not have the answers. I know I am a beginner. I am confused about these topics. I’d like to hear them discussed more.
Certainly any person living in an ashrama and srtictly following the Temple program we can respect and appreciate, especially if we are not able to follow all the rules, perhaps as we may have at one time. While not every devotee will be an “official” counselor, some basic listening and other people skills are essential for both outreach and getting along better with others. At present there is more of an emphasis on educating devotees in these areas, which is welcome. The Christians have the idea of “ministering” to the congregation which means meeting the spiritual and emotional needs of the members. I think this is a good model for certain devotee leaders to adopt to interface the Temple and the devotees living outside.
As far as falling away from your former practices, who you associate with is essential. I know that is obvious for any devotee, yet the company we keep, and the habits of our friends greatly affect us. We have to look at how we spend our time, and “fun” money, and ask ourself what is really important to us and our pressing need. We spend time with the things that are important to us. If we truly want to practice KC more strictly, then we may have to revisit our life, examining our 24 hours to schedule more time for our sadhana. Where there is a will there is a way. Of course we all have our ups and downs, so when we are down we struggle more. During those difficult times we have to put in more effort to hear and chant; and good association is even more essential. Easier said then done, yet we have to make the endeavor and pray like anything. The Lord helps those who help themselves!
Haribol Karnamrta Prabhu:
I have been meaning to respond and continue this thread, but I have had some technical difficulties that prevented me from posting.
Thanks for your advice re “association” and priorities. I can tell you are a good counselor, and I could certainly use you as a counselor if we lived close enough.
I appreciate your articles. Some of our patterns of our communication as ISKCON devotees may make us sometimes come accross as fanatics, “enthusiasts”, pushy Gita thumpers. This could turn off intelligent, free thinking innocents who are wary of groups with party lines and the dynamics of how they make people follow.
Still, I am trying to put forward doubts as an entithesis to make this dialogue go on.
My doubt is whether fanatacism among newly converted devotees manifests as part of the process of strictly following.
Something in the ashram lifestyle when I joined caused the brahmacaris to get painful cracks in the skin of their feet. Something caused us to occasionally have our sleep disturbed by “ghosts”. I have not had these problems for years, but I have not lived that lifestyle for years.
My doubt is that being an “enthusiast” for a young devotee may be a natural product of following the process, like these other mysterious phenomena.
Hopefully, ghosts and cracked feet are not something every new devotee really has to go through, and we can hope that fanatacism isn’t either. I am sure some doctor could easily explain the cracked feet, at least. Going barefoot at 4 a.m. might just do that.
Not only devotional religions have “enthusiasts”. Radical political groups can act very sectarian, too. Just like they are trying to view world events through the lens of some specific political ideology, we are trying to see through the eyes of sastra, and we are trying to order all our actions and relationships around such vision. We are supposed to give up asat association, asat thoughts, asat behavior. No wonder anti-cultists accuse us of “mind control” (In one sense yoga means mind control: yato yato niscalati. . .).
Cliquish teenagers may be embarrassed and repulsed by their parents or dorky kid brothers. In a similar way, new devotees are trying to find a new identity for themselves. It may be like an Eriksonian psychosocial stage, a spiritual adolescence we have to go through to become full-fledged, pakka devotees.
But maybe not. I hope not. I just don’t know. That is my doubt.
Akuranathaji: Hare Krishna! I used to get cracked feet from serving in the kitchen and altar and having wet feet. In general walking barefoot dries out the soles and toes and often causes cracking. Now I always where socks and put lotion on my feet—otherwise my feet will crack!
Many devotees have experienced being attacked by ghosts. Some times that has to do with the type of building or the area the Temple is in. The 2nd Temple in San Francisco was formerly a Funeral Home—so you can imagine that we had a lot of problems with ghosts. In Japan, they worship the ancestors and there are graveyards everywhere, so we also had many uninvited guests!
I believe that what might be called a “cult personality” is actually like a stage of development where one is overly black and what in their thinking, seeing demons everywhere and based on fear etc. I think it serves a purpose to protect a devotee in the beginning—-though knowledge and good association are better. I certainly had it as a young devotee, and some people may not grow out of it, though it may soften and not be so visible.
There is a difference between being enthusiastic because we have “the one pure path” (or KC perspective), and the enthusiasm which comes from taste, realization and spiritual advancement.
Prabhupada always appreciated enthusiasm. He never ever discouraged even most junior or sentimental or a lady of his disciples about being enthusiastic especialy in preaching. Any, including material, reasons for being enthusiastic were welcomed. As the times goes by we start examining it and find some of initial enthusiasm being false (utsaha mayi). That is not uncommon, but its not for seniors to discourage younger. Instead of discouragement patience should be demonstrated in practical behaviour. Its not a dogma, but it’s a practical side of enthusiasm, to be balance it with patience. Patience and enthusiasm are two counterparts that needs to be balanced. And the balance will show when even a false enthusiasm is channelled and encouraged. There is nothing wrong with any kind of enthusiasm and guru-nistha, provided its used and guided by patient seniors in a balanced society. One of my favourite quotes is from Prabhupadas lecture in Vrindavana on the Nectar of Devotion:
The only misuse of enthusiasm is when its not balanced by patient supervision.
Your servant
Caitanya candrodaya dasa
PS. one thing that shocked me is that you have not looked at where the translated word (enthusiasm) comes in our Vaisnava vocabulary (ie original word meaning of utsah). Its translated to act with courage or energy, to animate (see my above post with a quote from Bhakisiddhanta Sarasvati by Prabhupada, dead man can not preach), to encourage, to excite. Its also translated – to be able and interestingly to endure. (Monier Williams)
Yes, it may well be that the overly black and white personality comes more from the circumstances in which we joined than from the actual process of bhakti yoga.
I really loved Kaunteya Prabhu’s analysis about a year or so ago, published here on Dandavats, about some sociologist’s refined definitions of “cult” and “sect”.
“Cultists” are radicals, embracing something foreign or exotic to their host culture, and are liable to despise their own culture or traditions in seeking something totally new. They may be willing to embrace lifestyles and ideas that seem bizarre or outrageous to their friends and family.
“Sectarians”, in this sense, are orthodox, looking to purify their own tradition from the outside influences or corruptions that have devalued or tainted it.
Kaunteya analysed that young western converts to Krishna consciousness often followed patterns attributable to “cults” in this sense, and Hindus who embraced ISKCON sometimes follow patterns attributable to “sects”.
The rapid personality change, fanatic, pushy behavior and black and white outlook of our youth may be not so much an aspect of a neophyte stage in Krishna consciousness as a symptom of the “culty” baggage we brought with us.
Not to knock it either: being able to plunge headlong into joining a Krishna temple and to not care for the disapproval and mockery of outsiders is truly a magnificent quality. I often make fun of my hippie past, but I really have a soft spot for the noble if naive determination of hippies to abandon all received cultural norms and start a new ideal society from scratch based on love and idealism. (Drugs and lack of sense control, discipline, work ethic, and a real sense of history were problems, though.)
As for “ghosts”, one explanation I heard in “devotee lore” is that by following the regulative principles, our bodies were becoming very sattvic and our senses very strong and clear and enjoyable. Therefore, these sublunary disembodied beings seeking to possess a body for gross enjoyment were attracted to take ours. I never much credited that explanation, though. For one thing, these “ghosts” never seemed to get very far. They just paralyzed us for a few seconds in our sleep until we could chant or at least think of the holy name.
Caitanya Candra Prabhu: Actually the first thing I did was to look up “utsahan”in that Sanskrit dictionary, though I wasn’t very satisfied with the explanation in relationship to the word enthusiasm. I really appreciated what you found, ” to act with courage or energy, to animate”. Somehow I missed that and so I was lead me to explore what enthusiasm really means.
I agree that any reason for enthusiasm in the beginning is good and should be encouraged. Just like whatever reason we come to Krishna is a good reason. I also agree that what is needed to transform preliminary enthusiasm to mature enthusiasm are good examples and guidance.
The reason I brought up this topic is that I see that even an essential thing like enthusiasm–or appears to be enthusiasm—can be misused or misapplied. Not everyone recognizes or takes advantage of good guidance. As I mentioned in post 7 there is enthusiasm in ignorance, passion and goodness. If we don’t make spiritual advancement our enthusiasm may bring about Vaishnava aparadha or violence to others.
Dear Karnamrta Prabhu,
Just as with anything that is foundational, utsah should never be minimised. Basis of the problem as you say is lack of recognition of good guidance. That is the reason for us to base everything on the real authority – sastra. Bhakti-sastra very carefully makes sure that enthusiasm is never down or minimised, not just because its Krsna himself, as the sun in this yuga, but also by keeping the balance in favour of cultivating taste and faith in particular persons. If we in any way minimise this, we are acting against the bhakti sastra and will be acting against the will of Lord Caitanya who wanted to increase the taste of chanting and to spread it wide.
I fail to see how enthusiasm can be harmful, unless you are talking about something that is only called ”enthusiasm” but actual is ”false-enthusiasm”, utsahamayi.
Just as the there is faith and faith that is sraddha, a very specific faith in the process of bhakti yoga, it gets confusing when you call with one word two different things. I humbly suggest that we should always use different words for everything that has such a different nature.
Zeal is probably what you have refer to? Enthusiasm for presidential elections and enthusiasm for getting guru-nistha and krsnaprema is quite different is it?
You are making a good point. Certainly the energy directed toward material things or persons is much different for the energy in relationship to getting guru nistha or prema. In my experience new devotees can be enthusiastic by the newness of the path, and later lose it by the realization of what they are really involved in or how far they are from the goal. That may have been real enthusiasm, but it wasn’t able to mature from having sadhu sanga and realization.
Regarding shraddha we do have from Shrila Bhaktivinode the idea of kamala shraddha or weak faith and mature faith. And there is a difference between belief which is an activity of the mind and real shraddha which comes from the soul (they may look similar). So perhaps we could say immature enthusiasm and mature enthusiasm, noting a necessary progression. I thought I sort of did that. Anyway as you know, language is limited, but it is important to use the best words possible and try to further our understanding. I appreciate your thoughtful analysis.
part 1
Karnamrta prabhu, first you start off by quoting the words of Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura vis-a-vis the meaning of enthusiasm as it relates to the practice and life of bhakti. Then you veer off into a discussion of how to treat people who have gone through, or are going through, some type of traumatic experience. The title of your presentation sums up the essential message which you are trying to impart, “The Meaning of Enthusiasm and Its Possible Misuse”. From what I could tell you are telling us that “enthusiasm” has it’s place within the life of a sadhaka, but when confronted with people who are in some type of personal “crisis”, that the “enthusiasm” which is considered as important for the life of a bhakta, should be put on the “back burner” in order to counsel and aid grieving or troubled people who need a more personal touch.
From my perspective what you are saying is both true and also somewhat not true. The true part is where you say that people in crisis need personal rather then impersonal aid. While the truth of a person’s personal problems may have to do with karma etc, and can be understood and explained with a detached philosophy, it is also true that often time for a person in crisis their ability to process and relate to philosophy is hampered by their emotional state. Often times they simply need a friend, rather then a teacher.
part 2
The problematic part is where you introduce the idea that the enthusiasm spoken of as being an essential aspect of bhakti, is what needs to be tempered in order to counsel people in crisis. I know what you are meaning to say, but from my perspective I feel that the relationship you write about between devotional enthusiasm and it’s possible leading to improper counseling, is not quite the proper way to put it. The literal meaning of enthusiasm really captures the essence of what it entails, it is something which is coming from God. Bhakti is ultimately experienced as something which is bestowed on us. We are the recipients of divine grace. The realization of our being recipients of divine grace manifests in various ways, one of which is enthusiasm for saranagati, enthusiasm for pleasing the Lord. That enthusiasm is a reciprocal part of a person’s relationship with the Lord. When a devotee is free from all conditioning and misconception, then that natural enthusiasm becomes prema. What you describe as being enthusiasm wrongly applied, is not what is meant by enthusiasm for bhakti. What you are describing is simply immaturity or improper action due to a lack of empathy or sensitivity. Enthusiasm for bhakti should not be mistaken to be a cause of unwanted things. What may appear to be over enthusiasm for bhakti which may appear to cause improper action, is in reality something else.
Shivaji: I appreciate what you have brought up, and agree with your points. I could have said something like “enthusiasm versus immaturity–or what appears to be enthusiasm”, or something of that sort. After looking at enthusiasm I remembered how well meaning yet immature devotees would vigorously preach “at” other devotees and not be very helpful to them. Thus I wanted to bring that up. In the previous posts I think your points have been suggested, though you have succintly summarized the points.
The points brought up by you and the other devotees show the importance of these discussions. I have a lot of ideas which I think are important to be brought up, though frankly I don’t always the time or analytical mind to put everything in the best way. That is a bit of dilemma for me as I want what I write to be as technically correct and useful as possible. I am after all really blogging here and writing from inspiration in 2 or 3 hours. I can certainly do better, though if I wait till I think my writing perfect I might not ever write anything.
I am trying to be as thoughtful and careful as I can and I will be continually grateful for the devotees help to better communicate what I am trying to say and also for correcting me. At this late stage of my life much of my service involves writing. Practice makes perfect and I always strive to improve.
Karnamrta Prabhu:
You are doing a great job of writing here on Dandavats and I hope you keep it up.
I suspect that we sometimes miss out on interesting discussions and realizations on Dandavats discussions because our writers get too worried about what might happen if something they say isn’t perfect (and sometimes we fear the harsh critics who might be out there waiting to pounce on little mistakes). :-)
We are blogging and everyone should know we are not pretending to write great Vaisnava literature like the Six Goswamis. (How could we expect that?)
It is kind of an electronic isthaghosti where we should encourage everyone to open up and share their thoughts and feelings and try to be supportive even if there is (as there will be) the occasional misfire.
Please do not be discouraged by our sometimes off-the-mark responses. I know I tend to ramble and try to record stray reactions or inspirations, taking discussions off on odd tangents. I just beg that all the devotees and authors will pardon my overly chatty nature.
Maybe a balance between quality and quantity has to be struck somewhere, but I like to see lots of quantity and I think the quality has a way of making itself felt when friendly devotees talk sincerely about spiritual matters. (What else are we gonna talk about?)
Whether we call it “immaturity” or “enthusiasm without patience” you seem to have hit on some recognizable personality traits.
It might be a characteristic of “enthusiasm without patience” that inspired young devotees who have not yet faced or met many challenges in spiritual life expect they will soon be topmost devotees. One quality of the “enthusiasm with patience” syndrome seems to be a lack of genuine humility resulting in communication problems and excessive faultfinding. We expect too much of others and think too highly of ourselves.
Enthusiam is heady and it will do that to you. Krishna consciousness is something important — most important — and when we have discovered it our first instinct is to think (quite correctly) that we have become most fortunate. But that thought has to be tempered with the understanding that it may take us some time and steady determination to really digest and embody the real essence of Krishna consciousness. It will take time and patience for our devotion to mature, and we need to appreciate the good qualities of others.
Maintaining enthusiasm over time is another, important challenge.
The immature, “enthusiastic without patience,” new devotee thinks, “Why do I have to bother with counseling? Why concern myself with getting along with others, with social skills and morality? I will chant Hare Krishna and very quickly I will transcend mundane morality.”
As a new devotee, I tended to think ISKCON would very quickly take over the world. Didn’t Prabhupada say it could be done in eighteen days?
When ISKCON took over the world, would I be a humble, pious farmer, scratching out a simple, peaceful existence with my little family, carefully chanting each morning and making heartfelt offerings to Krishna while tolerating the unavoidable sufferings of life? No. As a perfect Vaisnava I would be at the top of the varnasrama food chain, better than a brahmana. Like some transcendental Henry Kissenger I would be sharing my brilliant spiritual vision with heads of state, advising them on how to reestablish Vedic civilization with Krishna at the center.
“Why should any of us marry?” How often did I hear enthusiastic new brahmacaris wonder in all serious how anyone could be so idiotic as to not just become a sannyasi at the earliest opportunity? Didn’t I wonder the same way?
Getting along with wives? Properly raising children? Those “mundane” concerns were for lesser men who did not understand the teachings of Narada Muni. We would just renounce all concerns for dharma, artha, kama and moksa, and absorb ourselves in the limbs of bhakti.
Varnashrama dharma was something for us to teach to the general public. It was not necessary for us, because pure Vaisnavas are above such “external” considerations. We might marry “just to show a good example”, not because we actually had any material desires to be fulfilled. Artha and kama were for those who did not understand the philosophy.
As childish and impetuous as the above sentiments sound, we should appreciate that they really spring from enthusiasm for Krishna consciousness. They contain in them appreciation for the glories of pure bhakti. The fault is that they are not tempered with realistic appraisal of our actual situation and how long it might actually take us to be truly pure in practice, as opposed to just theory.
In such impatience we may overlook that we actually do have to dovetail some material traits, and that learning how to be moral people who properly respect everyone, especially other devotees, is an integral part of progressive bhakti yoga.
Devotees talk a lot about “maturity” and “immaturity”, and this makes sense because these words seem to fit many of our actual experiences in ISKCON.
On the other hand, it is not always easy to match up our experiences of “maturity” and “immaturity” to statements of sastra or the instructions and vocabulary Srila Prabhupada has given us. Therefore, many of us may feel a need (I know I do) to examine our concepts of “mature” and “immature” devotees from different angles and look for points of reference in Srila Prabhupada’s teachings.
I see in Karnamrta’s recent three articles some good efforts at examining these concepts in light of both our experience and evidence from parampara. It is certainly something I am enthusiastic (and patient) to talk about. :-)
Words like enthusiasm and patience and maturity and immaturity have different connotations inside and outside the devotional context (naturally). When Sri Rupa Goswami says “enthusiasm” is favorable, he obviously means enthusiasm for devotional service. “Enthusiasm” for French restaurants or Heavy Metal rock concerts would of course be unfavorable.
In a similar way, when Sri Rupa Goswami says “sanga tyagat” is favorable and “jana sangas” is unfavorable, we understand he is speaking of material association. Association with advanced devotees is certainly favorable. (But we should take it as significant that Sri Rupa has chosen to emphasize here the importance of avoiding material sanga)
There does seem to be a real connection between untempered enthusiasm and what we experience as immaturity in new devotees. I think Karnamrta has hit on something important.
The pejorative sense of being an “enthusiast” seems to apply well to immature young devotees (and often is applied to religious fanatics and political firebrands).
There are also connotations of “immaturity”outside the devotional context (for example, cliquish behavior of teenagers who are easily embarrassed and humiliated by being associated with things they regard as “lame” or not “cool”) which seem homologous to certain qualities of religious fanatics in general and young devotees in particular. Both seem insensitive, unable or unwilling to sympathize with the feelings or perspectives of those outside the small world of what has become all important to them.
In young devotees this may be a good thing, at least as a stage they go through, and it bears mention that new converts often are teenagers or young adults.