By the Administrator of “For Struggling Devotees”
We are hoping to start (if Krsna desires) a new website to be called “FOR STRUGGLING DEVOTEES – for Vaishnavas struggling with sexual issues.” We are in need of someone to volunteer to help us with the design, creation and technical aspects of starting this website as we have no experience in this area.
There are numerous secular and Christian sites online to help people with problems of a sexual nature. But as of yet, there is nothing for Vaishnavas. Of course, we realize that this is a sensitive and often embarrassing topic and in one sense Srila Prabhupada has already given us everything we need to overcome lust. However, online pornography is extremely easy to access and sexual addictions are rampant. Unfortunately devotees are not immune to these and other such problems.
For a devotee with a sexual compulsion, just having another devotee to talk to, to reveal their mind to and somewhere to go for resources and encouragement can make all the difference in the world. It could have a significant positive impact on their spiritual lives. Lusty desires are the greatest impediment for a devotee trying to advance in Krsna consciousness. As Srila Prabhupada says, it is the shackles that Maya creates to keep us in illusion. And what a POWERFUL illusion that is. Hare Krishna!
The website would need to include sections with resources from Srila Prabhupada’s books; links to other sites; articles from other sites; suggested readings; a section on prayers, sadhana; and practical advice on dealing with these problems. Practical both from a secular and Krsna conscious viewpoint. Devotees would have the opportunity to correspond with other devotees struggling with the same issues. We will also be working to adapt the 12 Step program from Sexaholics Anonymous and Krsna-ize it for devotees. So if you have experience creating websites or know someone who is in this field and would be interested in possibly helping, or if you just need someone to talk to, please email: ForStrugglingDevotees@gmail.com.
Thank you very much. Hare Krishna.
Very interesting idea. I might suggest a change in title… For Vaishnavas struggling to follow the four regulative principles. Srila Prabhupada wanted us to follow very stricly but I wonder how many brahmacaris are perfectly celibate or how many householders are completely celibate if they are not trying to have children? I know for myself that controlling the senses is always a struggle. It will be interesting to see what kind of response you get and even more interesting to see what your website will be offering. Good luck. HARE KRISHNA.
daso ‘smi,
Nama prabhu dasa
Interesting to see this, but…take a step back (and forward!).
“You cannot be your own guru.” Statement of Srila Prabhupad.
If you try to solve the existential problems of embodiment by indulgement and suppression (bhoga and tyaga), the result will be more of the same. It is not so easy to be a vaishnava, and such vaishnavas are indeed very rare. It is not, as we know, apparent by the dress one wears or even the place one lives, inside or outside of ashramas.
Bhoktaram yajna tapasam…Krishna is the enjoyer of our sacrifices. That is one way we know that we can please Him. Consider also how pleased Lord Chaitanya was with the simply sacrifices of Sanatan Goswami while he was enroute to meet Mahaprabhu. Our sacrifices start from within. Desires born of the interaction of the senses with sense objects enhance attachment and lust. The jiva soul, being nonmaterial, also has attachment or desire. When transferred to matter, lording over matter, it is lust…and when reposed in Krishna, it is Krishna consciousness. It may take many, many lifetimes, or it may develop instantaneously. It is always a struggle for the conditioned souls, and that struggle brings the opportunities for sacrifice. As Krishna always accompanies us and permits and arranges what is in our heart of hearts, the opportunity for pleasing Krishna by sacrifice (choice) exists, and the opportunity to lord over nature for exploitation of the senses also exists, by the arrangement of Krishna.
Therefore, it is said, akama sarvakarma va moksakama uddharadhi…Whether one is free of all desire, or full of all desire, or desirous of liberation, they must approach Krishna as He is he supreme benefactor and Friend of all living beings.
I would caution do-gooders to stay aloof from entering into explicit sex-therapy topics. We tend to become like that with which we associate. It may take many lifetimes, but what we have now is a human lifetime in our hands. The hrdaya-granti, knot of material consciousness within the heart, is cut not by intellectual adjustments, but rather by hearing about Sri Krishna, Krishna katha. Protect your time, protect your opportunity of this lifetime, and realize that pleasing Krishna can easily occur by choosing Krishna whenever the opportunity arises…at every moment. Krishna is always watching, but He is our dearmost Friend, Well-wisher. Higher love and ecstasy await the sincere bhaktas. Pusta Krishna das
Thank you for your comments Pusta Krishna prabhu. We can assure you and the devotee community that there will not be any kind of “explicit sex therapy topics” on our website. Srila Prabhupada’s instructions through his books, lectures and letters will take the foremost position and will always be the basis of any association or sharing given.
And thank you Nama Prabhu das for yours. Yes. It is not easy to keep the high standard that Srila Prabhupada has given us. Especially as Kali Yuga progresses. I think you are right. This website could be a helpful resource for all devotees. Helping us to support one another in love and trust as we strive to become Krsna conscious. We hope the Vaishnava community will take it in that light. Hare Krishna.
your servants.
H G PustaKrishna Prabhu rightly says : ” If you try to solve the existential problems of embodiment by indulgement and suppression (bhoga and tyaga), the result will be more of the same “. The more you talk about this or associate with, the more you tend to act on it.
Instead of dwelling on this issue so much, one could rather do some service for Guru and Krishna, associate with devotees and go out for Sankirtan. There are unlimited services which can be done for Krishna. Then there will be no room for such desires to enter the heart.
The danger of starting this web site is that in future some other group of devotees would feel the need to start a pro gay web site (which is already happening) and would like to discuss on this issue to great lengths. The risk is that since the web is open to all without censorship, it will simply attract the neophytes who otherwise wouldn’t even care for such issues but may get misled.
I suggest – instead of starting this web site, better put your effort and time to start a web site or a blog wherein devotees can be counselled on how to improve their chanting, reading and other sadhana. It will be such a great service for Vaisnava community at large. I promise, i will bear the expense to start this website and i will be the first member to join the conference and will refer you atleast 100 devotees to headstart with.
Dasanudas,
Gauranga prasad das
Please accept my humble obeisances!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
and all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead!
I believe that controlling all sex desire is a very serious concern deserving all kinds of focus. Some of our greatest leaders in ISKCON have encountered sex desire issues.
I’m afraid I have had to challenge this whole issue. I have started and have been maintaining some related free forums for a number of years. All these forums are censored and moderated for the protection of the subscribers. I can send you more information or perhaps the moderators will allow me to post web addresses regarding this program.
Apparently, at the root of the homosexuality issue is the control of sex desire. It is probably simply due to sex desire that the whole complex of issues regarding homosex has arisen. If we can completely understand and correct all sex desire problems then this should uproot all problems with homosexuality, illicit sex, and the issues of sex in marriage.
Ultimately, controlling all sex desire is one in Bhakti Yoga. And, we see that already Bhakti Yoga engagements have already been recommended. But, in today’s society we cannot take any chances. And, some are involved in engagements or employment that exposes them to temptations.
Of course, we would like to be engaged in Bhakti Yoga 100%. But, many people are still learning the Hare Krsna belief system or may have little or no knowledge of Krsna consciousness. What a lot of people have turned to over the centuries is hard work and prayer to overcome all sex desire. And, we basically see this in the Hare Krsna movement where hard work and prayer is required.
In Krsna consciousness there is feasting, but we know there can be ill side effects from feasting if we are not careful. Similarly, in Krsna consciousness there is a literal feast on transcendental philosophy, but there can be side effects from so much philosophy. In Krsna consciousness we can chant and dance unlimitedly, but will our minds remain free from all other notions and desires?
Perhaps we just need to be engrossed in all three of the above-mentioned items. We should only eat Krsna prasadam, drill on the philosophy of Krsna consciousness, and always chant and dance in ecstasy.
Your servant in Krsna consciousness,
Citraketu dasa
DHARMA
yajnaya-dharma@yahoo.com
HH Bhakti Vikas Maharaja has written an exellent book about celibacy : “Brahmacary in Krsna consciouness.” I believe all devotees should read this book on a regular basis , I also contains many quotes from Srila Prabhupadas books.
But this website sounds like a great idea, Srila Raghuath das Goswami has advised us to
call out to the devotees and Krsna for help:
asac-cesta-kasta-prada-vikata-pasalibhir iha
prakamam kamadi-prakata-pathapati-vyatikaraih
gale baddhva hanye āham iti bakabhid vartmapa-gane
kuru tvam phutkaran avati sa yatha tvam mana itah
The highwaymen of lust and his friends have bound me around the neck with the painful, horrible, powerful ropes of many wicked deeds. O mind, please scream out to the devotees of Krsna, the killer of Baka, “I am being killed!” Then He will save me.
(Manah Siksa verss 5)
Srila Prabhupada often suggested changes in diet when having such problems and also to increase the quality and quantity of one;’s chanting.
(Please see Nectar of instruction verse 1 also with Srila Prabhupadas purport)
I would not want to discourage this well-motivated effort, and I wish it all success.
My concern, though, is that the internet might not be the best way for a troubled devotee to find the help he or she needs. For one thing, even though a sadhu should not have secrets and private faults to be hidden from the world, it is not natural for people (even devotees) to expose all their faults and problems to the judgments and censure of the general public.
Such “open confessions” may not be the best way t seek or get help. While it might be calming for others to know they are not alone in their struggles, excessive discussion of the troubles rather than the solutions might also serve to legitimize and rationalize bad behavior as “common” and therefore acceptable.
Srila Prabhupada seemed to mostly emphasise the positive, at least in public discussions, and to treat problems as simply unacceptable failures of will power. He did behave and speak differently about personal problems in public and in private.
Another thing is, it seems to be the nature of internet blogs to be not very supportive and to thrive on criticism and backbiting, at least in kali yuga. (I wonder what internet blog sites were like in previous ages). :-)
We can already see in this thread that an article designed to announce a positive new initiative and to seek support and volunteers has drawn mostly comments about whether or not the whole enterprise is a good idea. (I guess my own comment is no exception). :-0
I do think it would be nice to see devotees be able to publicy discuss personal struggles and solutions in a supportive and philosophically authorized way. I have not seen the secular and Christian websites that are mentioned in the article, but I hope whatever Vaisnavas do will be wonderful and Krishna conscious and pleasing (not too critical and fractious).
Personally my limited experience with “group therapy” is positive. I am attending “Weight Watchers” meetings and finding the motivation I get to eat sensibly very valuable. (I wish I could tell them about the value of offering all their food and eating only prasadam).
However, it seems to me that the tried and true method of getting support for serious spiritual problems is to approach friendly senior devotees in private. It is important to develop these friendly, caring relationships and have somewhere to go to get the confidential, personalized help we need for all kinds of challenges.
Please accept my humble obeisances!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
and all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead!
Thanks Prabhu!
I ran across this passage in the Teachings of Queen Kunti.
“If one takes to Krsna consciousness, in the beginning there will be many disturbances caused by MƤyƤ, the material energy of illusion. MƤyƤ will test us to see how firmly we are fixed in Krsna consciousness. Because she is also an agent of Krsna, she does not allow anyone the freedom to disturb Krsna. Therefore she tests very rigidly to see whether we have taken to Krsna consciousness to disturb Krsna or are actually serious. That is Mayaās business. So in the beginning there will be tests by MƤyƤ, and we shall feel so many disturbances while making progress in Krsna consciousness. But if we follow the rules and regulations and chant regularly as prescribed, then we shall remain steady. If we neglect these principles, MƤyƤ will capture us immediately. MƤyƤ is always ready. We are in the ocean, and at any moment we may be disturbed. Therefore one who is not disturbed at all is called paramahamsa.”
Teachings of Queen Kunti
TQK 3: The Most Intelligent Woman
We can think of so many ways of describing it, but either we turn to Krsna or we turn to Maya. We are only interested in Vaikuntha liberation and higher.
The Brahmacari books tend to suggest some very serious if not extreme standards. These books can be found on the Maha Vedabase. Most should get inspiration about controlling sex desire by studying these Brahmacari books even if they cannot surrender to a Hare Krsna commune for life.
But, the intelligence must be purified of any inclination to turn to maha-maya in any way. The intelligence must completely turn to Krsna. When our intelligence is turned to Krsna then our intelligence is actually intelligence.
“Therefore it is a rigid principle in every temple of our Krsna consciousness movement that there must be a daily class for hearing and chanting. Our movement is meant for training spiritual leaders, but without hearing and chanting it is impossible to become a leader.”
TQK 5: The Vision of Lotuses
This is the note that can get over-looked in Hare Krsna centers where there are so many services needed. The devotees need plenty of opportunity to drill on the scientific details offered in the Sastra.
Your servant in Krsna consciousness,
Citraketu dasa
DHARMA
yajnaya-dharma@yahoo.com
I think there may be some misunderstanding here. There are plenty of “good” devotees who practice Krsna consciousness daily, who know the solution to any sexual problems they have is hearing and chanting, yet they are addicted to pornography and/or other sexual misconduct. Such devotees need special care and attention, a support system that they can go to in order to help them break this cycle. It is not that the solution is something outside of Krsna consciousness, but when the problem is severe, a strong focused support system is ideal. Such a support system is simply a focused form of sanga aimed at solving problems, in this case the focus being sexual problems.
Those who are in the normal stuggle to control sex desire are in a different league than those with sexual addictions.
Hare Krsna,
Mahatma das
I wish all success to the organizers of this new site. Please do not be discouraged by contrary opinions. Every effort is associated with some potential risk or fault, but what is the alternative? Those who do nothing about the existing problem are not exactly above criticism either.
Sexuality is an inescapable reality of our conditioning, programmed and hard wired into our material body. It is important to handle it properly. I hope your site will help devotees struggling with that issue to maintain both their sanity and a healthy level of practical spiritual life. Good luck prabhus!
Please accept my humble obeisances!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
and all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead!
Hare Krsna!
Thanks! I hope that I am not stepping outside the topic of this thread too much. There are just so many sastra passages that are helpful in regards to this topic. Perhaps sex problems could be discussed on this bulletin board. I have selected a few interesting passages below.
[The word anta-gatam means “finished.” One can engage in devotional service if one has finished with his sinful life. Who can finish with sinful life? Those who engage in pious activities. One must have activities, and if one engages in pious activities one’s sinful activities will naturally vanish. On one side, one should voluntarily try to break the pillars of sinful life, and on another side one must engage himself in pious life.]
TQK 13: The Vital Force of the Universe
“One should work hard and worship the Supreme Lord by the fruits of one’s hard labor for existence, and that should be the motto of life. One should be careful to execute occupational service with faith in God in the proper way, and that will lead one gradually on the progressive march back to Godhead.”
SB 1.2.27, Purport by Srila Prabhupada
I have come to believe there are three types of inner child. All sex desire must have to do with the inner child. The first inner child we encounter is that developed during our childhood. The second inner child is conditioning from previous lives. The third inner child is our immortal soul which is child of God. There is a need for counter-programming if we find ourselves prone to any kind of sinful activity.
With modern technology it may seem that we can enjoy so much illicit sex. But, one funny thing about illicit sex is that this so-called pleasure is available not just to animals, but to residents of so many different hellish conditions. With sexual gratification there may be hellish existences where the fear and pain are unbearable. With so many artificial amenities we are temporarily protected from these hellish existences.
Your servant in Krsna consciousness,
Citraketu dasa
DHARMA
yajnaya-dharma@yahoo.com
Actually there needs to be senior devotees, youner devotees can turn too.Revealing the mind in confidence is recommended. Especailly such inquirires can be made to the spiritual master. Srila Prabhupada often guided devotees struggeling with material desires. In his famous letter to Hayagriva “about killing the demon Mr lust” from 1968
Srila Prabhupada advises to take to arcana-Deity worship.
“So to subdue lust is a different process. Then you have to take to Deity worship. I am sending herewith one copy of the process of Deity worship. Krishna is Madan Mohan. You have already stated in your letter, it is very nice, that you would much prefer to channel all your desires to Krishna, and you ask me how is this possible when enveloped in maya, seeing only material forms. You have also written to say that if you can see the Absolute Beauty which is all-attractive, then you could not help but be attracted and would scorn mundane beauty. This is actually the remedy. So you may take immediately to the Arcana, the Deity worship. ”
Srila Prabhupada also points out a wife whould not be taken simply to satisfy ones sexual desires:
“Now so far your personal matter is concerned, you are a Brahmacari, you can marry at any time, and in New York, all the nice girls, they are actually very suitable for our students, and I encourage that all the Brahmacaris may be very responsible, and marry one of the girls. Because generally the girls desire good husband and a good home, children, that is their natural propensity, so we want to show some ideal householders also. But the proposal that marriage will solve the question of lust, is not practical. Neither wife should be accepted as a machine for satisfying our lust. The marriage tie should be taken as very sacred. One who marries for subduing lust is mistaken. Because lust cannot be satisfied simply by indulging in sense gratification.”
In Vrindavana Srila Prabhupada advised husband and wife to have seperate living quaters to prevent falldowns within marriage .
I like to share 2 things HH Bhakti Vikas Maharaja mentioned to me in past discussions with him about the subject of celibacy.
1 He recomended carefully reading and imbiding the mood in the songs Gopinatha by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura
2 he recommended a regular meditation on Srimad Bhagavatam 7.9.45
ÅrÄ«mad BhÄgavatam 7.9.45
yan maithunÄdi-grĢ£hamedhi-sukhamĢ hi tucchamĢ
kanĢ£dĢ£Å«yanena karayor iva duhĢ£kha-duhĢ£kham
trĢ£pyanti neha krĢ£panĢ£Ä bahu-duhĢ£kha-bhÄjahĢ£
kanĢ£dĢ£Å«tivan manasijamĢ visĢ£aheta dhÄ«rahĢ£
Sex life is compared to the rubbing of two hands to relieve an itch. GrĢ£hamedhis, so-called grĢ£hasthas who have no spiritual knowledge, think that this itching is the greatest platform of happiness, although actually it is a source of distress. The krĢ£panĢ£as, the fools who are just the opposite of brÄhmanĢ£as, are not satisfied by repeated sensuous enjoyment. Those who are dhÄ«ra, however, who are sober and who tolerate this itching, are not subjected to the sufferings of fools and rascals.
Sex life may seem like pleasure but it is te cause of all distress, this is clearly mentiond in Srimad Bhagavatam again and again.
Srila Prabhupada quotes Yamunacarya in his purport to this vers(a must read) :
yadÄvadhi mama cetahĢ£ krĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a-padÄravinde
nava-nava-rasa-dhÄmanudyata rantum ÄsÄ«t
tadÄvadhi bata nÄrÄ«-saÅgame smaryamÄne
bhavati mukha-vikÄrahĢ£ susĢ£tĢ£u nisĢ£tĢ£hÄ«vanamĢ ca
“Since I have been engaged in the transcendental loving service of KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a, realizing ever-new pleasure in Him, whenever I think of sex pleasure, I spit at the thought, and my lips curl with distaste.” YÄmunÄcÄrya had formerly been a great king who enjoyed sexual happiness in various ways, but since he later engaged himself in the service of the Lord, he enjoyed spiritual bliss and hated to think of sex life. If sexual thoughts came to him, he would spit with disgust.
This is an important lesson to be learned, Srila Prabhupada recommended to daily hear from the Krsna book. This in my humble opinion the positive solution.along with increased attentive chanting.
Please accept my humble obeisances!
All glories to Srila Prabhupada
and all pure devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead!
Even Lord Krsna has clearly indicated that lust is a primary obstacle on the path of Bhakti Yoga. Bhagavad Gita 3.37
We must surrender to a Guru and other advanced devotees as much as possible. In the extreme we should practically become a slave to our Guru. The guiding light in this regard is the ancient tradition of the absolute surrender the brahmacaris would demonstrate towards their Guru. But, we should at least surrender to the Guru in his Vani form as he may appear with the Vani of other pure devotees in the authorized Vaisnava Sastra.
See: (Brahmacarya in Krsna Consciousness –
Bhakti Vikas Swami; BIKC 11: Training)
In the beginning work is said to be the means. The idle mind is the devil’s workshop. Srila Prabhupada often said don’t be idle. Try to choose a career according to our Varna and Karmic inclinations. In a situation of employment try to choose work that is not too difficult on our Krsna consciousness and offer the results of our work to Krsna. If you have hopes of being a more full-time preacher, then work part-time and study to be a preacher or move into a Hare Krsna commune if you believe you are qualified. To accept a wife means having one or more children and offering reasonable shelter and living facilities for them. Therefore, we should approach someone for marriage with this in mind and with this promise as well as a vow.
The beginning of Sadhana-Bhakti in Bhakti Yoga is to remember Krsna somehow or other. Keep trying to find ways to remember Krsna.
“This verse is a quotation from the Padma Purana. There are many regulative principles in the sastras and directions given by the spiritual master. These regulative principles should act as servants of the basic principle-that is, one should always remember Krsna and never forget Him.” Madhya 22.113, Purport by Srila Prabhupada
Chanting the Hare Krsna Maha Mantra is recommended and considered the ideal method of always remembering Krsna.
harer nama harer nama
harer namaiva kevalam
kalau nasty eva nasty eva
nasty eva gatir anyatha
[Cc. Adi 17.21]
If we are able to then study the Sastra using Vedabase software and other types of media. There are many helpful notes in the Sastra.
Your servant in Krsna consciousness,
Citraketu dasa
DHARMA
yajnaya-dharma@yahoo.com
This is the commentary of Srila Visvanatha Chakravati Thakura to Bhagavad Gita 3.37:
Lust, composed of the desire of the sense objects, impels a man to sin. A man, being urged by lust, engages in sin. This lust, appearing in a different form, becomes visible as anger. This means that lust, being obstructed by someone, transforms into anger. Lust arises from the mode of passion, and from lust in mode of passion arises anger in the mode of ignorance.
“But after the fulfillment of desire, the desire should be finished.”
“No, this lust is a great devourer. It is impossible to satisfy the expectations of desire.”
As the smrti says,
yat prthivyam vrihi-yavarm hiranyam pasavah striyah
nalam ekasya tat sarvam iti matva samam vrajet
Understanding that all that is available on earth in the form of food, gold, animals and women is not enough for one person, one should go about with peaceful mind. Mahabharata, Anusasana Parva, Ch.13
“If it is not possible to make an alliance with lust by giving (dana), then is it possible to bring under control by sama and bheda?”
“No, lust is a very great demon (maha papma).”
In other words lust can never be satisfied , the more a person ties the more frustrated he will become
see also Bhagavad Gita 2.62 ,. 2.63
Hare Krishna Prabhus
I would like to make a small contribution to the community of practicing Vaishnavas,about coping with sex impulse and sex desire in general. The genitalia is one of the karma indriyas, and it is the chief tool used in our default propensity of mating. The licentious use of this sense organ is accompanied by the dangerous corollary of conditioning; a sympton of the depth of this acquired conditioning , is extent to which we are preoccupied with making plans ( immediate or projected) to use this organ ( despite the presence or absence of the object of our sexual gratification). Many of us may have already executed several of these plans, and are now feeling trapped with the burdens of maintaining them; these burdens are further attended by the constant lamentation/hankering associated the potential for losses or gains thereof. A very potent way to deal with this situation is : (1) begin by recommitting ourselves to the deep acceptance of our real identity as Krishnaās insignificant eternal servant ; effective deep acceptance of Sambhanda Tattva often involves a heart felt acknowledgement ( in our personal prayers) of our inability self will such acceptance, as well as our impotence over the stumbling blocks to such; (2) Try to properly accept Nama Tattva that Krishna is non different from His Name , despite what our sensuous experience tells us. This acceptance implies the cultivation of the seed of faith that Sri Nama is a person, and our japa time will become a joyful opportunity to spend quality, attentive time with the Supreme person ( 3) Self reflectively occupy your ānon chanting timesā with other the angas of devotional service ; if you live near a temple you can easily arrange this. If much of your non chanting time is spent on a job, use the fruits of your effort to promote devotional service; the ease with which we are willing to do the latter ,will depend to the extent we factually accepted (1) above . It is a fact that, if we use the fruits of our endeavors in KC, the samskaras born of eating , sleeping , mating, and fearing are destroyed along with the faith in Karma itself ( as a modality of executing life).
If we sincerely impliment these three above things ,we will find that in a short time , a deep satisfaction will arise in our heart; alongside this occurence will be a distinct, observable, and reduced desire to use any of the senses ( both jnana or karma ) in the personal service of the ” plan making machine”.
Hare Krishna, pamho, agtsp, agtsgasg.
I feel very insignificant to be speaking here but as a neophyte who is struggling to achieve fixed determination to not violate the orders of my Eternal Spiritual master I try to remember the following teachings from the sastra. Krishna says in the BhagavatGita that there are 2 categories of people – one with spiritual qualities and the other with demoniac qualities. We should consciously make a choice to exhibit our spiritual qualities all the time.
It is mentioned in the scriptures that demons or asuras are able to undertake severe austerity like pure devotees and Ravana and Hiranyakashipu are good examples. Ravana used to worship millions of shiva lingas before Sunrise. Such is their determination but there is an important difference. The demons seek power whereas the devotee seeks the powerful (the one who gives power). The demons seek sexual gratification or sense gratification whereas the devotees seek the master of the senses, Hrikesh.
So we have to be mindful that we should not fall into the same trap that demons fall into for the one insignificant reason that the (so-called) rewards of pleasures are instantaneous (and does not involve surrendering to Krishna). Demons just don’t get it that if power is so good then how much better is it to seek the giver of the power – of all the power in the entire universe. Same goes for sense gratification. Imagine the pleasure of association of Krishna who is the master of all the senses in all the 3 worlds. So we should have this prespective and we will avoid the mistake of making the wrong choice.
It is already mentioned that the book by HH Bhakti Vikas Swami is a great aid in helping us stay on the right path. I also found the following e-book by Swami Sivananda (founder of Divine Life Society and a staunch Brahmachari) on this very topic very helpful in developing a distaste for instant sense gratification:
http://www.dlshq.org/download/brahmacharya.pdf
Also on this very topic HH Radhanath Swami maharaj mentions that we should chant the holy names with helplessness and pray for Krishna’s help and then the creeper of bhakti would grow within our hearts. Now we have to fence this creeper and guard it as if it is the most precious thing in the world. we should be very very careful about what we let into our minds through our eyes and ears. So chanting the holy names purifies us and we should protect that from garbage and filth of this material world.
Haribol !!!
there is an online version of HH Bhakti Vikasa Maharaja’s Brahmacary book:
http://nitaaiveda.com/All_Scriptures_By_Acharyas/Celibacy_Brahmacharya.htm
I believe all sincere ISKCON devotees should obtain a copy of this book from Maharaja.
BG 3:39
avrtam jnanam etena
jnanino nitya-vairina
kama-rupena kaunteya
duspurenanalena ca
Thus, a manās pure consciousness is covered by his eternal enemy in the form of lust, which is NEVER SATISFIED and which burns like fire.
When it somes to sense gratification let us remember the one golden rule:
Ever fed, never satisfied; never fed, ever satisfied.
Haribol!
Srila Bhtivinoda Thakura sings in his Kalyana kalpa taru:
1) O Gopinatha, please remove the torment of worldly existence. I can no longer tolerate the pain of ignorance and the repeated succession of births and deaths.
2) O Gopinatha, indeed I am a servant of lust. Worldly desires are awakening in my heart, and thus the noose of fruitive work is beginning to tighten.
3) O Gopinatha, when will I wake up and abandon afar this enemy of lust, end when will You manifest Yourself in my heart?
4) O Gopinatha, I am Your devotee, but having abandoned You and thus having forgotten my real treasure, I have worshiped this mundane world.
5) O Gopinatha, You know everything. Now, having punished Your servant, please give him a place at Your lotus feet.
6) O Gopinatha, is this Your judgment, that seeing me averse to You, You abandon Your servant and don’t bestow even a particle of mercy upon him?
7) O Gopinatha, I am certainly very foolish, and I have never known what is good for me. Therefore such is my condition.
8) O Gopinatha, You are indeed the wisest person. Please look for a way to bring about auspiciousness for this fool, and please do not consider this servant as an outsider.
1) O Gopinatha, Lord of the gopis, please hear my request. I am a wicked materialist, always addicted to worldly desires, and no good qualities do I possess.
2) O Gopinatha, You are my only hope, and therefore I have taken shelter at Your lotus feet. I am now Your eternal servant.
3) O Gopinatha, how will You purify me? I do not know what devotion is, and my materialistic mind is absorbed in fruitive work. I have fallen into this dark and perilous worldly existence.
4) O Gopinatha, everything here is Your illusory energy. I have no strength or transcendental knowledge, and this body of mine is not independent and free from the control of material nature.
5) O Gopinatha, this sinner, who is weeping and weeping, begs for an eternal place at Your divine feet. Please give him Your mercy.
6) O Gopinatha, You are able to do anything, and therefore You have the power to deliver all sinners. Who is there that is more of a sinner than myself?
7) O Gopinatha, You are the ocean of mercy. Having come into this phenomenal world, You expand Your divine pastimes for the sake of the fallen souls.
8) O Gopinatha, I am so sinful that although all the demons attained Your lotus feet, Bhaktivinoda has remai
this is the famous Aila Gita spoken by Lord Krsna to Uddhava before He left this material universe:
SB 11.26.1: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Having achieved this human form of life, which affords one the opportunity to realize Me, and being situated in My devotional service, one can achieve Me, the reservoir of all pleasure and the Supreme Soul of all existence, residing within the heart of every living being.
SB 11.26.2: A person fixed in transcendental knowledge is freed from conditioned life by giving up his false identification with the products of the material modes of nature. Seeing these products as simply illusion, he avoids entanglement with the modes of nature, although constantly among them. Because the modes of nature and their products are simply not real, he does not accept them.
SB 11.26.3: One should never associate with materialists, those dedicated to gratifying their genitals and bellies. By following them one falls into the deepest pit of darkness, just like a blind man who follows another blind man.
SB 11.26.4: The following song was sung by the famous emperor Pururava. When deprived of his wife, Urvasi, he was at first bewildered, but by controlling his lamentation he began to feel detachment.
SB 11.26.5: When she was leaving him, even though he was naked he ran after her just like a madman and called out in great distress, “O my wife, O terrible lady! Please stop!”
SB 11.26.6: Although for many years Pururava had enjoyed sex pleasure in the evening hours, still he was not satisfied by such insignificant enjoyment. His mind was so attracted to Urvasi that he did not notice how the nights were coming and going.
SB 11.26.7: King Aila said: Alas, just see the extent of my delusion! This goddess was embracing me and held my neck in her grip. My heart was so polluted by lust that I had no idea how my life was passing.
SB 11.26.8: That lady cheated me so much that I did not even see the rising or setting of the sun. Alas, for so many years I passed my days in vain!
SB 11.26.9: Alas, although I am supposed to be a mighty emperor, the crown jewel of all kings on this earth, just see how my bewilderment has rendered me a toy animal in the hands of women!
SB 11.26.10: Although I was a powerful lord with great opulence, that woman gave me up as if I were no more than an insignificant blade of grass. And still, naked and without shame, I followed her, crying out to her like a madman.
I may be off topic a bit. I understand from Mahatma Prabhu that the idea of the website is to provide a service for good devotees who know the solution to samsara is hearing and chanting, but who suffer from “sexual addiction” or some other kind of psychopathology.
I do not know about such mental obsessive-compulsive disorders (if that is what they are) and I would not try to dabble in a professional field I have no training in. Devotees with actual personality disorders or diseases (like drug or alcohol addiction) should get appropriate professional help, and also need good association and support from the devotee community (but they of course should not be allowed to harm devotees or devotee communities….that is yet another different topic).
But at the risk of veering off on a tangent (as I am inclined to do), I would like to echo whomever it was who said on Dandavats recently that even those without “addiction” problems are also “struggling devotees.” Or, to put it another way, (and without meaning to trivialize the serious problems of people diagnosed with mental diseases), conditional life is actually a kind of diseased condition, “bhava rog”, an addiction to samsparsaja bhoga, a mental disorder (for one who has failed to control the mind it is the worst enemy), which affects practically all of us.
We have had a tendency in ISKCON historically, many of us (like me), to simply “pretend” to be on a higher level of detachment from material life and attachment to the higher taste of Krishna consciousness than we really are. Mithuna Prabhu wrote recently in another thread that we should not be a society of “Sunday paramahamsas.” I liked the image. We come to the weekly feast all dressed up with our tilak and mala and act very seriously for a few hours, but when we are alone at home how much are we really integrating bhakti yoga into our whole lives?
We have sometimes emphasized the perfectional ideal of sannyas at the expense of the importance of at least practicing fundamental morality and good family life, which is the stage most of us really need to master. Attentively raising Krishna conscious children and engaging the whole family in healthy, dharmic lifestyle for the pleasure of Krishna is the proper application of sex desire. When it is channeled properly in devotional service there will be less tendency to act renounced in public but to cheat when we think no one is looking [as if Supersoul were not always looking.]
Here is more from the Aila Gita directly from the lotus lips of Sri Krsna:
SB 11.26.11: Where are my so-called great influence, power and sovereignty? Just like an ass being kicked in the face by his she-ass, I ran after that woman, who had already given me up.
SB 11.26.12: What is the use of a big education or the practice of austerities and renunciation, and what is the use of studying religious scriptures, of living in solitude and silence, if, after all that, one’s mind is stolen by a woman?
SB 11.26.13: To hell with me! I am such a fool that I didn’t even know what was good for me, although I arrogantly thought I was highly intelligent. Although I achieved the exalted position of a lord, I allowed myself to be conquered by women as if I were a bullock or a jackass.
SB 11.26.14: Even after I had served the so-called nectar of the lips of UrvaÅÄ« for many years, my lusty desires kept rising again and again within my heart and were never satisfied, just like a fire that can never be extinguished by the oblations of ghee poured into its flames.
SB 11.26.15: Who but the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who lies beyond material perception and is the Lord of self-satisfied sages, can possibly save my consciousness, which has been stolen by a prostitute?
SB 11.26.16: Because I allowed my intelligence to become dull and because I failed to control my senses, the great confusion in my mind did not go away, even though UrvaÅÄ« herself gave me wise counsel with well-spoken words.
SB 11.26.17: How can I blame her for my trouble when I myself am ignorant of my real, spiritual nature? I did not control my senses, and so I am like a person who mistakenly sees a harmless rope as a snake.
SB 11.26.18: What is this polluted body anyway ā so filthy and full of bad odors? I was attracted by the fragrance and beauty of a woman’s body, but what are those so-called attractive features? They are simply a false covering created by illusion.
SB 11.26.19-20: One can never decide whose property the body actually is. Does it belong to one’s parents, who have given birth to it, to one’s wife, who gives it pleasure, or to one’s employer, who orders the body around? Is it the property of the funeral fire or of the dogs and jackals who may ultimately devour it? Is it the property of the indwelling soul, who partakes in its happiness and distress, or does the body belong to intimate friends who encourage and help it? Although a man never definitely ascertains the proprietor of the body, he becomes most attached to it. The material body is a polluted material form heading toward a lowly destination, yet when a man stares at the face of a woman he thinks, “What a good-looking lady! What a charming nose she’s got, and see her beautiful smile!”
SB 11.26.21: What difference is there between ordinary worms and persons who try to enjoy this material body composed of skin, flesh, blood, muscle, fat, marrow, bone, stool, urine and pus?
SB 11.26.22: Yet even one who theoretically understands the actual nature of the body should never associate with women or with men attached to women. After all, the contact of the senses with their objects inevitably agitates the mind.
SB 11.26.23: Because the mind is not disturbed by that which is neither seen nor heard, the mind of a person who restricts the material senses will automatically be checked in its material activities and become pacified.
SB 11.26.24: Therefore one should never let his senses associate freely with women or with men attached to women. Even those who are highly learned cannot trust the six enemies of the mind; what to speak, then, of foolish persons like me.
SB 11.26.25: The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: Having thus chanted this song, MahÄrÄja PurÅ«ravÄ, eminent among the demigods and human beings, gave up the position he had achieved in the planet of UrvaÅÄ«. His illusion cleansed away by transcendental knowledge, he understood Me to be the Supreme Soul within his heart and so at last achieved peace.
SB 11.26.26: An intelligent person should therefore reject all bad association and instead take up the association of saintly devotees, whose words cut off the excessive attachment of one’s mind.
SB 11.26.27: My devotees fix their minds on Me and do not depend upon anything material. They are always peaceful, endowed with equal vision, and free from possessiveness, false ego, duality and greed.
Srila Prabhupada often mentioned such subjects about renounciation should be discussed on a regualr basis,
This Aila Gita spoken by Sri Krsna is something we should meditate o regularly to not grow weak. Isvara Prabhu
has translated the Uddhava Gita with the commentaries of the acaryas, I have not gotten hold of a copy yet.
But I am sure the commentaries of the acarays to this Aila Gita must be very eliminating.
These are the last verses of the Aila Gita that also can be found online at vedabase,net for those who do not have a full set of Srimad Bhagavatam.
SB 11.26.28: O greatly fortunate Uddhava, in the association of such saintly devotees there is constant discussion of Me, and those partaking in this chanting and hearing of My glories are certainly purified of all sins.
SB 11.26.29: Whoever hears, chants and respectfully takes to heart these topics about Me becomes faithfully dedicated to Me and thus achieves My devotional service.
SB 11.26.30: What more remains to be accomplished for the perfect devotee after achieving devotional service unto Me, the Supreme Absolute Truth, whose qualities are innumerable and who am the embodiment of all ecstatic experience?
SB 11.26.31: Just as cold, fear and darkness are eradicated for one who has approached the sacrificial fire, so dullness, fear and ignorance are destroyed for one engaged in serving the devotees of the Lord.
SB 11.26.32: The devotees of the Lord, peacefully fixed in absolute knowledge, are the ultimate shelter for those who are repeatedly rising and falling within the fearful ocean of material life. Such devotees are just like a strong boat that comes to rescue persons who are at the point of drowning.
SB 11.26.33: Just as food is the life of all creatures, just as I am the ultimate shelter for the distressed, and just as religion is the wealth of those who are passing away from this world, so My devotees are the only refuge of persons fearful of falling into a miserable condition of life.
SB 11.26.34: My devotees bestow divine eyes, whereas the sun allows only external sight, and that only when it is risen in the sky. My devotees are one’s real worshipable deities and real family; they are one’s own self, and ultimately they are nondifferent from Me.
SB 11.26.35: Thus losing his desire to be on the same planet as UrvaÅÄ«, MahÄrÄja PurÅ«ravÄ began to wander the earth free of all material association and completely satisfied within the self.
one may wonder what isntructins Urvasi gave to Pururava as mentioned in:
SB 11.26.16: Because I allowed my intelligence to become dull and because I failed to control my senses, the great confusion in my mind did not go away, even though UrvaÅÄ« herself gave me wise counsel with well-spoken words.
These instructions are found in the 9th Canto
SB 9.14.36: UrvaÅÄ« said: My dear King, you are a man, a hero. Don’t be impatient and give up your life. Be sober and don’t allow the senses to overcome you like foxes. Don’t let the foxes eat you. In other words, you should not be controlled by your senses. Rather, you should know that the heart of a woman is like that of a fox. There is no use making friendship with women.
SB 9.14.37: Women as a class are merciless and cunning. They cannot tolerate even a slight offense. For their own pleasure they can do anything irreligious, and therefore they do not fear killing even a faithful husband or brother.
SB 9.14.38: Women are very easily seduced by men. Therefore, polluted women give up the friendship of a man who is their well-wisher and establish false friendship among fools. Indeed, they seek newer and newer friends, one after another.
SB 9.14.39: O my dear King, you will be able to enjoy with me as my husband at the end of every year, for one night only. In this way you will have other children, one after another.
SB 9.14.40: Understanding that UrvaÅÄ« was pregnant, PurÅ«ravÄ returned to his palace. At the end of the year, there at KuruksĢ£etra, he again obtained the association of UrvaÅÄ«, who was then the mother of a heroic son.
Actually the Pandavas ,where in a familie line coming from the descendents of Pururava.Much later when Arjuna came to the heavenly planets he was approached by Urvasi, but Arjuna turned her down
being his great great great great (and so on) grandma that really enfuriated Urvasi and who then cursed Arjuna to become an eunuch for one year.This curse was used by Arjuna while in disguise at the court of king Virat in the final year of the Pandavas exile, as Brhadnala.
Urvasi was manifested directly by Nara Narayana rsi when they where tested by the demigods and Indra (see Srimad Bhagavatam 11 canto chapter 4) After Nara Naryana Rsi defeated Cupid and the other demigods they manifested so many beautiful apsaras more beautiful than any lady seen in the heavenly planets, and Nara Narayana Ris’s asked them to choose one of these ladies.So they chose Urvasi.
During the time when King Pururava and Urvasi flew around the univers engaged in sensegratification they came to a place called Simhacalam on this earth , this is narratede in the Sthala Puranas of this temple.There Urvasi recognised this place and told Pururava that Prahlada Maharaja had build a temple here for the selfmanifested Deity of Sri Varaha- Narasimha
(half Varaha ,half Narasimha form) .They totaly forgot about sensegratification and engaged in looking for this Deity, untill Lord Varaha Narasimha appeared in their dreams and told them where He was being hidden .They then established a temple again for Lord Varaha Narasimha, also known as Jiyada Narasimha temple in Andrah Pradesh.This temple was also visited by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu .The Deity is covered by chandan as ordered by Lord Varaha Narasimha
to Urvasi and Pururava.So we should see Urvasi and Pururava as great devotees, not ordinary conditioned souls.
another classical example is from Srmad Bhagavatam 5 canto chapter 8 the tachings of Lord Rshabadeva:
ÅrÄ«mad BhÄgavatam 5.5.8
pumĢsahĢ£ striyÄ mithunÄ«-bhÄvam etamĢ
tayor mitho hrĢ£daya-granthim ÄhuhĢ£
ato grĢ£ha-ksĢ£etra-sutÄpta-vittair
janasya moho ‘yam ahamĢ mameti
TRANSLATION
The attraction between male and female is the basic principle of material existence. On the basis of this misconception, which ties together the hearts of the male and female, one becomes attracted to his body, home, property, children, relatives and wealth. In this way one increases life’s illusions and thinks in terms of “I and mine.”
PURPORT
Sex serves as the natural attraction between man and woman, and when they are married, their relationship becomes more involved. Due to the entangling relationship between man and woman, there is a sense of illusion whereby one thinks, “This man is my husband,” or “This woman is my wife.” This is called hrĢ£daya-granthi, “the hard knot in the heart.” This knot is very difficult to undo, even though a man and woman separate either for the principles of varnĢ£ÄÅrama or simply to get a divorce. In any case, the man always thinks of the woman, and the woman always thinks of the man. Thus a person becomes materially attached to family, property and children, although all of these are temporary. The possessor unfortunately identifies with his property and wealth. Sometimes, even after renunciation, one becomes attached to a temple or to the few things that constitute the property of a sannyÄsÄ«, but such attachment is not as strong as family attachment. The attachment to the family is the strongest illusion. In the Satya-samĢhitÄ, it is stated:
brahmÄdyÄ yÄjƱavalkÄdyÄ
mucyante strÄ«-sahÄyinahĢ£
bodhyante kecanaitesĢ£ÄmĢ
viÅesĢ£am ca vido viduhĢ£
Sometimes it is found among exalted personalities like Lord BrahmÄ that the wife and children are not a cause of bondage. On the contrary, the wife actually helps further spiritual life and liberation. Nonetheless, most people are bound by the knots of the marital relationship, and consequently they forget their relationship with KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a.
I was listening to a lecture by Srila Prabhupada from NY where he was saying ,we have come in contact with matter and our pure consciousness ,that he compares to crystal clear water has become like ice, thus our love for Krsna is convered over and we have become hard hearted due to the contact with material consciousness.In Bhagavad Gita
3.37 purpot Srila Prabhupada give an important analysis and explains that our original love for Krsna has been transfomed into lust, and KC is the proscess to revers this lust into love for Krsna again.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead said: It is lust only, Arjuna, which is born of contact with the material mode of passion and later transformed into wrath, and which is the all-devouring sinful enemy of this world.
PURPORT
When a living entity comes in contact with the material creation, his eternal love for KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a is transformed into lust, in association with the mode of passion. Or, in other words, the sense of love of God becomes transformed into lust, as milk in contact with sour tamarind is transformed into yogurt. Then again, when lust is unsatisfied, it turns into wrath; wrath is transformed into illusion, and illusion continues the material existence. Therefore, lust is the greatest enemy of the living entity, and it is lust only which induces the pure living entity to remain entangled in the material world. Wrath is the manifestation of the mode of ignorance; these modes exhibit themselves as wrath and other corollaries. If, therefore, the mode of passion, instead of being degraded into the mode of ignorance, is elevated to the mode of goodness by the prescribed method of living and acting, then one can be saved from the degradation of wrath by spiritual attachment.
The Supreme Personality of Godhead expanded Himself into many for His ever-increasing spiritual bliss, and the living entities are parts and parcels of this spiritual bliss. They also have partial independence, but by misuse of their independence, when the service attitude is transformed into the propensity for sense enjoyment, they come under the sway of lust. This material creation is created by the Lord to give facility to the conditioned souls to fulfill these lustful propensities, and when completely baffled by prolonged lustful activities, the living entities begin to inquire about their real position.
This inquiry is the beginning of the VedÄnta-sÅ«tras, wherein it is said, athÄto brahma jijƱÄsÄ:
one should inquire into the Supreme. And the Supreme is defined in ÅrÄ«mad-BhÄgavatam as janmÄdy asya yato ‘nvayÄd itarataÅ ca, or, “The origin of everything is the Supreme Brahman.” Therefore the origin of lust is also in the Supreme. If, therefore, lust is transformed into love for the Supreme, or transformed into KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a consciousness ā or, in other words, desiring everything for KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a ā then both lust and wrath can be spiritualized. HanumÄn, the great servitor of Lord RÄma, exhibited his wrath by burning the golden city of RÄvanĢ£a, but by doing so he became the greatest devotee of the Lord. Here also, in Bhagavad-gÄ«tÄ, the Lord induces Arjuna to engage his wrath upon his enemies for the satisfaction of the Lord. Therefore, lust and wrath, when they are employed in KrĢ£sĢ£nĢ£a consciousness, become our friends instead of our enemies.
Srila Madhavacaryas has commented on this vers also :
Madhvacarya’s Commentary
The influence which is the most powerful and destructive on human beings is kama or lust followed by krodha or anger which arises from frustrated desires. Those who hypothesise contrarily are not cognisant of the subtle difference involved in the mixture of the two. Therefore it can be understood that without desire there is no opportunity for anger to manifest and indeed it does not. Since there are many causes of anger it is called mahashanah or great devourer. Since anger becomes the cause of committing abominable actions it is called mahapaapma or great sinner and because it is counter productive to all human goals of righteousness it is called mahavairi or great adversary.
Hare Krishna,
Is this project still ongoing? I would like to offer some help to construct this website/forum. Please do let me know.
Ys
D